China increases power cuts, 'scared' suppliers look to leave country

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 92
    tedz98 said:
    This is a classic example of the failures of communism, big government and central planning. They can’t keep the lights on! The article, which in many ways from a journalistic perspective, isn’t written well - doesn’t answer the basic question of why there is a power shortage in China. It also speaks to the corruption of big government. Companies with political influence, and by inference, the resources to bribe officials, are the ones who get electricity (sounds a bit like what’s going on in Washington D.C.) You can be sure if companies are being denied electricity, private citizens are going without power in their homes. Do global warming alarmists really think China is going to limit CO2 output when they are bringing new coal burning power plants online every week, yet still can’t meet power demand? Apple should have been undertaking a serious effort to leave China a long time ago. But the lure of cheap labor and easier profitability has kept them there longer than they should have been. So wake up America! The siren’s lure of big brother government being the provider of the basic necessities of daily life touted by the likes of AOC, Bernie, Biden, Nancy and Schumer are deceptive and false. California, which is already a semi-socialist state, is well on its way to being unable to meet everyday power needs during periods of peak demand. Gavin Newsome and his ilk in Sacramento falsely think they posses the intellectual superiority to control the basic economic, environmental and societal variables of California to lead to optimal outcomes for the citizens of California. Given the outflow of people and companies from California I would argue they are failing. Tesla is moving their headquarters to Texas as a very recent example of this. Not to mention the California problems with homelessness. Apple’s next big worry is TSMC and their reliance on Taiwan for Apple CPU’s. If Apple were smart they’d be knocking on the doors of Intel and other domestic chip producers and start developing backup supply chains for chips. This is a multi-year effort so get started now! The China pendulum has reached its apex. Time for new plans Apple!
    *Cough* Texas wide power outage 2021 *Cough*
    GeorgeBMacdanoxp-dogFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 42 of 92
    maestro64 said:
    DAalseth said:
    tmay said:
    The cost of fossil fuels is not just emissions but also in exposure to this volatility
    That is the most profound part. We shouldn’t be dependant on what China does, or what Iran does, or what Russia does. With a domestic, renewable energy supply we could, as my folks said back IN THE 1970s, tell them to drink their damn oil. Same goes for natural gas, or coal. Move off of them and it won’t just be good for the planet, it will be good for national security.

    and you know at night the sun does not shire and winds drop off and batteries storage is expense and must be replaced every 7 to 10 yrs and batteries can not be recycled and material which goes into batteries comes out of mines which requires lots of heavy equipment along with the material going into solar cell. Also the blades on windmills need to be replaces every 10 to 15 yrs due to stress crack and they can not be recyled since they are made of fiberglass. Solar panels need to be replaces every 20 to 25 year and can not be recycled.  The real solution is not solar cell, batteries and windmills. It is Nuclear and hydrogen in either a fuel cell or Hydrogen combusion engins. Last yr the US was engery independent, for the first time in over 50 yrs and in a few short month the US is now dependent on what the world is doing yet again with no solution to do something else. Even if everyone home in the US had solar panels and windmill it could not product enough power to run our economy. Your can not run a factory off solar or windmills.
    You are a spectacular amount of wrong. 
    GeorgeBMacp-dogFileMakerFellerfastasleep
  • Reply 43 of 92
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    lkrupp said:
    DAalseth said:
    lkrupp said:
    And if the climate change radicals get their way this is the future for the U.S. Learn to live one or two days a week without power... to save the planet of course.
    No. 
    Thats a completely clueless comment. 
    Yeah, and how is it clueless? Energy needs are growing exponentially, not shrinking. Climate radicals insist that wind and solar will fill the need. No need for hydrocarbons or nuclear. Abject nonsense. My oldest son is director of engineering at a company deep in the power industry. He was part of the team that designed and built a solar power plant in the Mojave desert that uses liquid sodium to store energy. When he tells me hydrocarbons and nuclear will be around for a very long time I believe him. Solar and wind will never be able to provide a stable base load supply of electricity. The energy density of hydrocarbons far surpasses that of solar and wind. Add to that the problem of storing the energy produced by sources that are not 24/7/365 available.  

    The climate radicals won’t accept that fact. So yes, if they have their way, energy production will not be able to keep up with demand. If they get their way. Hoping for more rational minds to prevail. 

    I find it very hopeful and promising that the argument has moved from "climate change is a hoax" to "There is no replacement for hydrocarbons".   That's a big step forward.  It's a debate that can be conducted rationally rather ideologically.
    p-dogFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 44 of 92
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    maestro64 said:
    tedz98 said:
    This is a classic example of the failures of communism, big government and central planning. They can’t keep the lights on! The article, which in many ways from a journalistic perspective, isn’t written well - doesn’t answer the basic question of why there is a power shortage in China. It also speaks to the corruption of big government. Companies with political influence, and by inference, the resources to bribe officials, are the ones who get electricity (sounds a bit like what’s going on in Washington D.C.) You can be sure if companies are being denied electricity, private citizens are going without power in their homes. Do global warming alarmists really think China is going to limit CO2 output when they are bringing new coal burning power plants online every week, yet still can’t meet power demand? Apple should have been undertaking a serious effort to leave China a long time ago. But the lure of cheap labor and easier profitability has kept them there longer than they should have been. So wake up America! The siren’s lure of big brother government being the provider of the basic necessities of daily life touted by the likes of AOC, Bernie, Biden, Nancy and Schumer are deceptive and false. California, which is already a semi-socialist state, is well on its way to being unable to meet everyday power needs during periods of peak demand. Gavin Newsome and his ilk in Sacramento falsely think they posses the intellectual superiority to control the basic economic, environmental and societal variables of California to lead to optimal outcomes for the citizens of California. Given the outflow of people and companies from California I would argue they are failing. Tesla is moving their headquarters to Texas as a very recent example of this. Not to mention the California problems with homelessness. Apple’s next big worry is TSMC and their reliance on Taiwan for Apple CPU’s. If Apple were smart they’d be knocking on the doors of Intel and other domestic chip producers and start developing backup supply chains for chips. This is a multi-year effort so get started now! The China pendulum has reached its apex. Time for new plans Apple!
    On the very surface you would think this is a failure of the central planning, and I think China maybe wants everyone to think this. It is more than this, China is doing this on purpose and it not to help with global warming they have not cared for the last 30 yrs and they did not all of a sudden start worshiping at the alter of the world going to burn up in 12 yrs fear mongers. 

    China is doing this to hurt the world economy, if they drive the world into a recession they think they will come out the other stronger since they do not care what happen to the people on a daily bases. China is in it for the long haul, they are not short sighted QoQ view, they looking 25 to 30 yrs out, it may hurt the short term but long term they could come out a head. For 30 yrs US companies were looking to outsource as much as they could to low wage countries like China. However in the last 3 yrs more companies have been bring things back onshore and manufacturing once again was growing in the US. China does not like this and they could not stop the movement, the only way to stop it now is to drag down the economy which will kill off manufacturing in the US. As more thing get more closely to buy, people buy less. It is starting to happen now and companies are beginning to cut back production.

    I Agree Apple has an issue with TSMC, since China is outwardly being more aggressive toward Taiwan and already sent a message to the US it not in their best interest at this point to get in the China's way in regards to Taiwan. I work with people in Taiwan and they very concern and are starting to look how to get out.

    Nice conspiracy theory!  Very entertaining!
    p-dog
  • Reply 45 of 92
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    maestro64 said:
    tedz98 said:
    This is a classic example of the failures of communism, big government and central planning. They can’t keep the lights on! The article, which in many ways from a journalistic perspective, isn’t written well - doesn’t answer the basic question of why there is a power shortage in China. It also speaks to the corruption of big government. Companies with political influence, and by inference, the resources to bribe officials, are the ones who get electricity (sounds a bit like what’s going on in Washington D.C.) You can be sure if companies are being denied electricity, private citizens are going without power in their homes. Do global warming alarmists really think China is going to limit CO2 output when they are bringing new coal burning power plants online every week, yet still can’t meet power demand? Apple should have been undertaking a serious effort to leave China a long time ago. But the lure of cheap labor and easier profitability has kept them there longer than they should have been. So wake up America! The siren’s lure of big brother government being the provider of the basic necessities of daily life touted by the likes of AOC, Bernie, Biden, Nancy and Schumer are deceptive and false. California, which is already a semi-socialist state, is well on its way to being unable to meet everyday power needs during periods of peak demand. Gavin Newsome and his ilk in Sacramento falsely think they posses the intellectual superiority to control the basic economic, environmental and societal variables of California to lead to optimal outcomes for the citizens of California. Given the outflow of people and companies from California I would argue they are failing. Tesla is moving their headquarters to Texas as a very recent example of this. Not to mention the California problems with homelessness. Apple’s next big worry is TSMC and their reliance on Taiwan for Apple CPU’s. If Apple were smart they’d be knocking on the doors of Intel and other domestic chip producers and start developing backup supply chains for chips. This is a multi-year effort so get started now! The China pendulum has reached its apex. Time for new plans Apple!
    Oh, did you mean California - the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world? Yeah they're doing fine. Just because anti-labor and anti-COVID-measures wingnuts like Musk chase corporate welfare elsewhere doesn't mean there is anything wrong w/ CA. 

    Also, you've enjoyed the fruits of socialism since before you were born.


    If you beliver this, you need some reeducation. Everything on that lists was paid for by the US tax payers and none of it would exist if it was not for capitalism. The government does not create a thing, they only take money and redistribute it there is no value add, they mostly distroy value in the process. There are few on the list which are true socialist program and are failures. SS is running out of money since whole idea relied on each generation being larger than the one in front of it, the Boomers will deplete most of it leaving nothing for those behind them. What a great program, i just wish they allow me to invest that 14% they get of wages I would have done fare better for myself. Then again I do not rely on others to do thing for me.

    Keep in mind Socialism is that the government control all means of production meaning everyone works for the government and no one gets paid since the government provides everything. Everyone is equally poor, it is easier to drag people down and to pull everyone up, and the one no raising rather pull everyone down to make themselves feel better for failing themselves.

    Ahh!  The libertarian manifesto.   Total bullshit!  But it sells well and sounds convincing.

    The truth is:  Capitalism cannot exist without government providing a stable society and infrastructure for it to exist in.   And, that includes not just physical things like roads and bridges but the people as well -- who need THEIR government to create livable conditions for them.

    If raw capitalism worked so well (or at all) we wouldn't have places like Haiti where people would work for pennies.

    Even the U.S.'s original prototypical capitalist, Ben Franklin, spent much of his time & resources creating such socialist organizations like libraries and fire departments in order to fill the holes that raw capitalism left.

    The U.S. tried pushing raw capitalism at the turn of the 19th century.   It resulted in mass strikes, riots and repeated depressions.  It failed.  And the answer was not less government but more.  After that was settled by mixing portions of raw capitalism with socialism the country became the most prosperous and powerful country in the history of the world.
    edited October 2021 p-dogmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 46 of 92
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    entropys said:
    DAalseth said:
    tmay said:
    The cost of fossil fuels is not just emissions but also in exposure to this volatility
    That is the most profound part. We shouldn’t be dependant on what China does, or what Iran does, or what Russia does. With a domestic, renewable energy supply we could, as my folks said back IN THE 1970s, tell them to drink their damn oil. Same goes for natural gas, or coal. Move off of them and it won’t just be good for the planet, it will be good for national security.
    I believe you misunderstood the volatility part. It isn’t just political.
    renewables need baseload to support them and even out energy supply, be it coal, gas or nuclear.  Hence the push to build great big batteries, even though the tech isn’t there and won’t be in the short to medium term, or even longer without some amazing tech breakthrough. The market rigging to favour renewables over fossil fuels cause the fossil fuels to be more expensive, making fossil fuel plants less profitable, and energy companies scale back production from this plants as the central planners intended. 

    Then you start having energy supply problems. Oops.

    The fossil fuel industry should be taxed in order to pay for the natural disasters like fires, floods and hurricanes -- not to mention pollution related diseases -- that they are causing.

    Currently, they are getting a very free ride:  they are like a runaway truck causing devastation but never have to pay for it.
    p-dogmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 47 of 92
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    entropys said:
    tedz98 said:
    This is a classic example of the failures of communism, big government and central planning. They can’t keep the lights on! The article, which in many ways from a journalistic perspective, isn’t written well - doesn’t answer the basic question of why there is a power shortage in China. It also speaks to the corruption of big government. Companies with political influence, and by inference, the resources to bribe officials, are the ones who get electricity (sounds a bit like what’s going on in Washington D.C.) You can be sure if companies weare being denied electricity, private citizens are going without power in their homes. Do global warming alarmists really think China is going to limit CO2 output when they are bringing new coal burning power plants online every week, yet still can’t meet power demand? Apple should have been undertaking a serious effort to leave China a long time ago. But the lure of cheap labor and easier profitability has kept them there longer than they should have been. So wake up America! The siren’s lure of big brother government being the provider of the basic necessities of daily life touted by the likes of AOC, Bernie, Biden, Nancy and Schumer are deceptive and false. California, which is already a semi-socialist state, is well on its way to being unable to meet everyday power needs during periods of peak demand. Gavin Newsome and his ilk in Sacramento falsely think they posses the intellectual superiority to control the basic economic, environmental and societal variables of California to lead to optimal outcomes for the citizens of California. Given the outflow of people and companies from California I would argue they are failing. Tesla is moving their headquarters to Texas as a very recent example of this. Not to mention the California problems with homelessness. Apple’s next big worry is TSMC and their reliance on Taiwan for Apple CPU’s. If Apple were smart they’d be knocking on the doors of Intel and other domestic chip producers and start developing backup supply chains for chips. This is a multi-year effort so get started now! The China pendulum has reached its apex. Time for new plans Apple!
    Oh, did you mean California - the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world? Yeah they're doing fine. Just because anti-labor and anti-COVID-measures wingnuts like Musk chase corporate welfare elsewhere doesn't mean there is anything wrong w/ CA. 

    Also, you've enjoyed the fruits of socialism since before you were born.


    The blackboard is confused about the difference between public goods and owning/controlling the means of production. And can’t spell “benifits”.
    If it was confused as you claim we wouldn't have Republicans screaming "SOCIALISM!!!" at every attempt at improving American society.

    You can't have it both ways.

    p-dogmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 48 of 92
    entropys said:
    tedz98 said:
    This is a classic example of the failures of communism, big government and central planning. They can’t keep the lights on! The article, which in many ways from a journalistic perspective, isn’t written well - doesn’t answer the basic question of why there is a power shortage in China. It also speaks to the corruption of big government. Companies with political influence, and by inference, the resources to bribe officials, are the ones who get electricity (sounds a bit like what’s going on in Washington D.C.) You can be sure if companies weare being denied electricity, private citizens are going without power in their homes. Do global warming alarmists really think China is going to limit CO2 output when they are bringing new coal burning power plants online every week, yet still can’t meet power demand? Apple should have been undertaking a serious effort to leave China a long time ago. But the lure of cheap labor and easier profitability has kept them there longer than they should have been. So wake up America! The siren’s lure of big brother government being the provider of the basic necessities of daily life touted by the likes of AOC, Bernie, Biden, Nancy and Schumer are deceptive and false. California, which is already a semi-socialist state, is well on its way to being unable to meet everyday power needs during periods of peak demand. Gavin Newsome and his ilk in Sacramento falsely think they posses the intellectual superiority to control the basic economic, environmental and societal variables of California to lead to optimal outcomes for the citizens of California. Given the outflow of people and companies from California I would argue they are failing. Tesla is moving their headquarters to Texas as a very recent example of this. Not to mention the California problems with homelessness. Apple’s next big worry is TSMC and their reliance on Taiwan for Apple CPU’s. If Apple were smart they’d be knocking on the doors of Intel and other domestic chip producers and start developing backup supply chains for chips. This is a multi-year effort so get started now! The China pendulum has reached its apex. Time for new plans Apple!
    Oh, did you mean California - the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world? Yeah they're doing fine. Just because anti-labor and anti-COVID-measures wingnuts like Musk chase corporate welfare elsewhere doesn't mean there is anything wrong w/ CA. 

    Also, you've enjoyed the fruits of socialism since before you were born.


    The blackboard is confused about the difference between public goods and owning/controlling the means of production. And can’t spell “benifits”.
    If it was confused as you claim we wouldn't have Republicans screaming "SOCIALISM!!!" at every attempt at improving American society.

    You can't have it both ways.

    Double Think. 
  • Reply 49 of 92
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Apparently China is ramping up energy production and the shortages are not limited to China.

    From Reuter's news:

    "In China, where coal production had been curtailed to meet climate goals, officials have ordered more than 70 coal mines in Inner Mongolia to ramp up production by nearly 100 million tonnes or 10%, as the world's largest exporter battles its worst power shortages in years.

    Russia's Gazprom, a key supplier of gas to China, calmed fears that a fire at a major gas processing plant could worsen the situation, saying it was able to continue exporting gas to China as normal.

    India, the second largest coal consumer after China, is also suffering electricity outages because of a lack of coal with over half of its coal-fired power plants having less than three days worth of fuel stocks, data from the federal grid operator showed."




  • Reply 50 of 92
    danoxdanox Posts: 837member
    tmay said:
    I don't envy the Chinese leadership. Hard choices are being made trying to move  1 1/2  Billion people (5x the U.S.) from a 19th century agrarian society into the 21st century. Coal has to go. A hard choice but the poisoned air of northeast china is causing serious political challenges for the CCP. Just like the U.S. in the 1970's-1980's, China has decided to focus on "clean"and profitable industries that enhance the environment, while discouraging "dirty" low profit industries. If steel mills have to move so be it, a more efficient software industry or robotics plant can take it's place.
    It's quite true that PRC needs to improve its productivity, especially since the population is aged and a proportionally smaller workforce is supporting the economy than 50 years ago when they joined the global economy. The PRC is also attempting population increases, allowing two, or possibly more births for the Majority Han population; Minorities not so much. There are predictions that the PRC economy will peak without "getting rich", and it is likely that they will see severe population declines.

    Steel production is likely the largest component of industrial energy use, and as a major component of China's economy is driven by infrastructure growth, it is unlikely to be reduced by much.

    China shot itself in the foot by "boycotting" Australian coal, a result of broken diplomacy between the two. I would put this blunder squarely on Xi Xinping.

    Or Thorium coming up in the near future (within 5 years).
  • Reply 51 of 92
    danoxdanox Posts: 837member
    Oak Ridge Tennessee Thorium Reactor worked for twenty years, fits in a 40’x40’’ room or on semi truck, requires no massive water cooling, requires Thorium pellets with minimum prep, disadvantage you can’t easily build a bomb out of the material left over which is why Nixon canned it.

    The Chinese will be hitting us over the head with our own tech. Sputnik all over….

    The overall size of a Thorium Reactor means one or many 2 or three can fit in a sub-basement of a hospital, office building, factory or Jay Leno’s garage.

    The sand on both the east and west coasts of India is nothing but Thorium in it’s natural state it is mildly radioactive. Which is why the Indians are working on their own designs (they started years before the Chinese) but the Chinese beat them to a working 100% Thorium Reactor. 


    edited October 2021 FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 52 of 92
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,716member
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/15/what-does-the-eus-carbon-tariff-proposal-mean-for-australia

    What is a carbon border adjustment mechanism? Is it a tax?

    In simple terms, it is a charge imposed on overseas businesses that make products that lead to greenhouse gases being pumped into the atmosphere but don’t face a cost for them at home.


    How does it work?

    As part of its sweeping proposals to tackle global heating released on Wednesday, the EU executive said it would impose a levy on some big-emitting import industries.

    The first industries to face potential costs include cement, iron and steel, aluminium, fertiliser and electricity. Businesses are expected to face reporting obligations from 2023, with the costs starting in 2026.

    This is a idea who's time has come. 


    On solar in the U.S.;

    https://www.utilitydive.com/news/wind-solar-make-up-70-of-new-generation-in-2021-while-batteries-gain-mome/593278/


    • Wind and solar will represent more than two-thirds of new electric generating capacity to come online in 2021, while battery storage capacity is set to quadruple over the next year, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA).

    • Two-thirds of new solar projects are now built in tandem with energy storage, according to Sam Newell, a principal analyst for The Brattle Group.

    • At current pace, wind, solar and storage could overtake conventional technologies as the leading source of generation by the early 2030s, according to Wood Mackenzie principal analyst Robert Whaley.


    edited October 2021
  • Reply 53 of 92
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,368member
    lkrupp said:
    DAalseth said:
    lkrupp said:
    And if the climate change radicals get their way this is the future for the U.S. Learn to live one or two days a week without power... to save the planet of course.
    No. 
    Thats a completely clueless comment. 
    Yeah, and how is it clueless? Energy needs are growing exponentially, not shrinking. Climate radicals insist that wind and solar will fill the need. No need for hydrocarbons or nuclear. Abject nonsense. My oldest son is director of engineering at a company deep in the power industry. He was part of the team that designed and built a solar power plant in the Mojave desert that uses liquid sodium to store energy. When he tells me hydrocarbons and nuclear will be around for a very long time I believe him. Solar and wind will never be able to provide a stable base load supply of electricity. The energy density of hydrocarbons far surpasses that of solar and wind. Add to that the problem of storing the energy produced by sources that are not 24/7/365 available.  

    The climate radicals won’t accept that fact. So yes, if they have their way, energy production will not be able to keep up with demand. If they get their way. Hoping for more rational minds to prevail. 
    A really smart engineer once told me that the internet would be limited by the sheer inability to find anything as it grew larger. At the time, ‘search’ was a manually updated hierarchical index at Yahoo. Then Google happened. 

    Electric vehicles were underpowered, impractical, wonky things that only hippies would use. Then Tesla happened. 

    Your use of the playground insult term “climate radicals” is telling. What it tells is that your view of the subject is primarily political. People who see and acknowledge what the science actually says are not radical. 

    The fossil fuels industry is hugely subsidized by government. Subsidized not only by tax deals, infrastructure support and giveaways of federal lands for digging and drilling, but by a huge part of the military budget that’s dedicated to protecting oil and gas interests in the Middle East and around the world. You don’t just pay for gasoline at the pump. You pay for it via income tax. 

    That industry is hugely invested in keeping all that flowing, so we get a decades-long disinformation campaign to cast doubt on climate science. We get an entire political party and conservative media dedicated to supporting the needs of the fossil fuels industry. Both are now so far off the rails in that effort that they are dependent on spinning daily narratives based on “alternative facts.” As a side effect, the same confab is primed for other disinformation campaigns like vaccines-bad-horsepaste-good

    Breaking our addiction to fossil fuels isn’t just necessary. It’s also possible. It’s not easy, but just like breaking the current pandemic, it would be easier if doing so didn’t require pushing against the headwinds of politically motivated naysayers who don’t even realize their self-assured, cut-and-paste opinions are bought and paid for by revenue picked from their very own pockets. 
    tmayp-dogelijahgthtFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 54 of 92
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,586member
    tedz98 said:
    This is a classic example of the failures of communism, big government and central planning. They can’t keep the lights on!...
    LOL...  The UK can't keep the lights on either.  And we can't unload ships.

    Should China call that a failure of Capitalism?

    BTW, China just ordered increased output from their mines to alleviate the shortage.
    But, they have also been cutting back on the use and mining of coal because of climate change.  Plus, they stopped the import of Australian coal when they became openly hostile.   So, we'll have to see how they decide to manage that.   But one thing is certain:   The predictions of China's demise are greatly premature.
    Oh look it’s George our resident China shill. Please do point to where in the UK the lights have gone out? Electricity costs have soared, but that’s a global problem not a UK problem. 

    The hostility from China for the last 5+ years has nothing to do with the “hostility” from Australia then? What about China calling the Australian PM “insane” today? That’s definitely the words a sane, globally responsible government would use. 
    edited October 2021 tmay
  • Reply 55 of 92
    byronlbyronl Posts: 230member
    glennh said:
    tedz98 said:
    This is a classic example of the failures of communism, big government and central planning. They can’t keep the lights on! The article, which in many ways from a journalistic perspective, isn’t written well - doesn’t answer the basic question of why there is a power shortage in China. It also speaks to the corruption of big government. Companies with political influence, and by inference, the resources to bribe officials, are the ones who get electricity (sounds a bit like what’s going on in Washington D.C.) You can be sure if companies are being denied electricity, private citizens are going without power in their homes. Do global warming alarmists really think China is going to limit CO2 output when they are bringing new coal burning power plants online every week, yet still can’t meet power demand? Apple should have been undertaking a serious effort to leave China a long time ago. But the lure of cheap labor and easier profitability has kept them there longer than they should have been. So wake up America! The siren’s lure of big brother government being the provider of the basic necessities of daily life touted by the likes of AOC, Bernie, Biden, Nancy and Schumer are deceptive and false. California, which is already a semi-socialist state, is well on its way to being unable to meet everyday power needs during periods of peak demand. Gavin Newsome and his ilk in Sacramento falsely think they posses the intellectual superiority to control the basic economic, environmental and societal variables of California to lead to optimal outcomes for the citizens of California. Given the outflow of people and companies from California I would argue they are failing. Tesla is moving their headquarters to Texas as a very recent example of this. Not to mention the California problems with homelessness. Apple’s next big worry is TSMC and their reliance on Taiwan for Apple CPU’s. If Apple were smart they’d be knocking on the doors of Intel and other domestic chip producers and start developing backup supply chains for chips. This is a multi-year effort so get started now! The China pendulum has reached its apex. Time for new plans Apple!
    You need to turn off the FAUX (FOX) news channels and leave your house, city, state and country to brighten your perspective of the real world. I guess California is doing so bad that it’s economy keep growing and it State’s coffers are overflowing with cash despite the pandemic and without the help of federal (aka Blue States’) money. 

    Elon Musk is moving his HQ to Texistan!  However, his manufacturing and engineers are staying here in Cali! 

    As far as the issues in China, it was just a matter of time before the house of cards started to fall apart taking the capitalists who sold the CPC the rope to hang themselves and the CPC! It looks like the old Soviet were right after all…..🤪
    actually tesla is building a factory in texas that will be much bigger than their cali factory 
  • Reply 57 of 92
    elijahg said:
    tedz98 said:
    This is a classic example of the failures of communism, big government and central planning. They can’t keep the lights on!...
    LOL...  The UK can't keep the lights on either.  And we can't unload ships.

    Should China call that a failure of Capitalism?

    BTW, China just ordered increased output from their mines to alleviate the shortage.
    But, they have also been cutting back on the use and mining of coal because of climate change.  Plus, they stopped the import of Australian coal when they became openly hostile.   So, we'll have to see how they decide to manage that.   But one thing is certain:   The predictions of China's demise are greatly premature.
    Oh look it’s George our resident China shill. Please do point to where in the UK the lights have gone out? Electricity costs have soared, but that’s a global problem not a UK problem. 

    The hostility from China for the last 5+ years has nothing to do with the “hostility” from Australia then? What about China calling the Australian PM “insane” today? That’s definitely the words a sane, globally responsible government would use. 
    The dispute is between China and Australian prime minister that started in 2018.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20190322121026/https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/morrison-pledges-no-showboating-on-china/ar-BBPCxFM
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 58 of 92
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,716member
    elijahg said:
    tedz98 said:
    This is a classic example of the failures of communism, big government and central planning. They can’t keep the lights on!...
    LOL...  The UK can't keep the lights on either.  And we can't unload ships.

    Should China call that a failure of Capitalism?

    BTW, China just ordered increased output from their mines to alleviate the shortage.
    But, they have also been cutting back on the use and mining of coal because of climate change.  Plus, they stopped the import of Australian coal when they became openly hostile.   So, we'll have to see how they decide to manage that.   But one thing is certain:   The predictions of China's demise are greatly premature.
    Oh look it’s George our resident China shill. Please do point to where in the UK the lights have gone out? Electricity costs have soared, but that’s a global problem not a UK problem. 

    The hostility from China for the last 5+ years has nothing to do with the “hostility” from Australia then? What about China calling the Australian PM “insane” today? That’s definitely the words a sane, globally responsible government would use. 
    The dispute is between China and Australian prime minister that started in 2018.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20190322121026/https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/morrison-pledges-no-showboating-on-china/ar-BBPCxFM
    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/great-expectations-the-unraveling-of-the-australia-china-relationship/

    The current raft of economic and political sanctions are an example of the CCP testing Australia’s resolve. Beijing may hope to force deference from Canberra through fear, but even in the absence of capitulation on specific decisions, China has a history of using economic punishments to teach wayward partners a lesson and defend both the Chinese system and the pride of the Chinese people. For example, Seoul has not reversed its decision about the deployment of the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) U.S. anti-missile system. But its possible that China hopes the campaign of coercive measures against South Korean economic interests conducted in response will encourage policymakers to think twice about future decisions that could similarly antagonize China.[33]
    China, always about coercion.
    elijahg
  • Reply 59 of 92
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    AppleZulu said:
    lkrupp said:
    DAalseth said:
    lkrupp said:
    And if the climate change radicals get their way this is the future for the U.S. Learn to live one or two days a week without power... to save the planet of course.
    No. 
    Thats a completely clueless comment. 
    Yeah, and how is it clueless? Energy needs are growing exponentially, not shrinking. Climate radicals insist that wind and solar will fill the need. No need for hydrocarbons or nuclear. Abject nonsense. My oldest son is director of engineering at a company deep in the power industry. He was part of the team that designed and built a solar power plant in the Mojave desert that uses liquid sodium to store energy. When he tells me hydrocarbons and nuclear will be around for a very long time I believe him. Solar and wind will never be able to provide a stable base load supply of electricity. The energy density of hydrocarbons far surpasses that of solar and wind. Add to that the problem of storing the energy produced by sources that are not 24/7/365 available.  

    The climate radicals won’t accept that fact. So yes, if they have their way, energy production will not be able to keep up with demand. If they get their way. Hoping for more rational minds to prevail. 
    A really smart engineer once told me that the internet would be limited by the sheer inability to find anything as it grew larger. At the time, ‘search’ was a manually updated hierarchical index at Yahoo. Then Google happened. 

    Electric vehicles were underpowered, impractical, wonky things that only hippies would use. Then Tesla happened. 

    Your use of the playground insult term “climate radicals” is telling. What it tells is that your view of the subject is primarily political. People who see and acknowledge what the science actually says are not radical. 

    The fossil fuels industry is hugely subsidized by government. Subsidized not only by tax deals, infrastructure support and giveaways of federal lands for digging and drilling, but by a huge part of the military budget that’s dedicated to protecting oil and gas interests in the Middle East and around the world. You don’t just pay for gasoline at the pump. You pay for it via income tax. 

    That industry is hugely invested in keeping all that flowing, so we get a decades-long disinformation campaign to cast doubt on climate science. We get an entire political party and conservative media dedicated to supporting the needs of the fossil fuels industry. Both are now so far off the rails in that effort that they are dependent on spinning daily narratives based on “alternative facts.” As a side effect, the same confab is primed for other disinformation campaigns like vaccines-bad-horsepaste-good

    Breaking our addiction to fossil fuels isn’t just necessary. It’s also possible. It’s not easy, but just like breaking the current pandemic, it would be easier if doing so didn’t require pushing against the headwinds of politically motivated naysayers who don’t even realize their self-assured, cut-and-paste opinions are bought and paid for by revenue picked from their very own pockets. 

    Thanks!  That was very well stated.
    I would add though that the demise of the fossil fuel industry will not be like turning out a light -- but more like a slowly fading light as it its sun sets...   And, we will see regional differences and geopolitical battles as every country slowly climbs on board.

    But, like with the Corona Virus, nobody will be safe from climate change until everybody is safe.

    Perhaps, between the two of them the world will begin to realize that working together on common problems yields better results than tribalism.
  • Reply 60 of 92
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    elijahg said:
    tedz98 said:
    This is a classic example of the failures of communism, big government and central planning. They can’t keep the lights on!...
    LOL...  The UK can't keep the lights on either.  And we can't unload ships.

    Should China call that a failure of Capitalism?

    BTW, China just ordered increased output from their mines to alleviate the shortage.
    But, they have also been cutting back on the use and mining of coal because of climate change.  Plus, they stopped the import of Australian coal when they became openly hostile.   So, we'll have to see how they decide to manage that.   But one thing is certain:   The predictions of China's demise are greatly premature.
    Oh look it’s George our resident China shill. Please do point to where in the UK the lights have gone out? Electricity costs have soared, but that’s a global problem not a UK problem. 

    The hostility from China for the last 5+ years has nothing to do with the “hostility” from Australia then? What about China calling the Australian PM “insane” today? That’s definitely the words a sane, globally responsible government would use. 

    LOL...
    I see you backed off your "This signals the failure of communism" bullshit pretty quickly and reverted to personal attacks, diversion and spin.

    Typical.
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