To be clear, Parallels Desktop only supports the ARM version of Windows 11,
NOT the Intel version of Windows 11
What is strange in itself. With a virtual TPM they could have even Microsoft backed support for Windows 11 on Intel. On the other hand, the ARM version of Windows 11 on Apple Silicon aka M1 isn’t backed by Microsoft support. E.g. as a business you would never engage in a scenario where you would run Windows 11 on ARM on your M1 Macbook.
Just to clear something up that some people might be thinking about, Apple has had a TPM for years, it’s called the Secure Enclave. It’s just not compatible with the TPM used by AMD and Intel, and Apple will never open it up for third party use.
but this development shows that the TPM, as used by AMD and Intel, at least, can easily be worked around by software, so its value is questionable.
What does Windows 11 on ARM have to do with Intel / AMD TPM?
This is Windows 11 for ARM only. There has always been Software TPMs and Hypervisor TPMs (amongst the 5 types of TPM 2.0 Implementations).
It has everything to do with it. Microsoft has stated several times now, that TPM 2 is required to install Win 11 on a machine. Since no ARM chip has that, you can’t DIRECTLY install even the ARM version on any ARM machine, including Apple’s. I’ve already said that software can work around it, so you don’t seem to have read my entire post. I also said, not in those words, that it’s a flaw.
Apologies if I'm misunderstanding but how is it a flaw when it's by design? The ARM-based Surface Pro X has a Firmware TPM chip. The Hypervisor TPM (vTPM) is a software solution to do the same job as the Firmware TPM Chip. A Hypervisor TPM is a recognised and accepted implementation of the TPM 2.0 spec. Where is the flaw?
And I still fail to see how the Intel / AMD TPM implementations have anything to do with Windows 11 on ARM. I did read your entire post but it's not clear.
You are right.
The thing is that with Windows on ARM, Microsoft supports only a handful of devices running a few ARM processors of Qualcomm. Even the customized Microsoft SQ1 and SQ2 are manufactured by Qualcomm in a joint development. By working with Qualcomm, the current Windows on ARM are optimized for these Qualcomm ARM processors, including support for secure boot, TPM and DirectX and hence even hardware virtualization. All aspects that needs to be emulated by the virtualization software (Parallels and others) or Microsoft needs to work with Apple to hardware support the M1/Apple Silicon - both not of interest to Apple neither Microsoft.
Just to clear something up that some people might be thinking about, Apple has had a TPM for years, it’s called the Secure Enclave. It’s just not compatible with the TPM used by AMD and Intel, and Apple will never open it up for third party use.
but this development shows that the TPM, as used by AMD and Intel, at least, can easily be worked around by software, so its value is questionable.
On Intel or AMD motherboards, during booting, the UEFI part of the boot process checks for the TPM compatibility (if present and which level). TPM can be either a separate hardware chip, or is included in the latest Intel or AMD processors (but needs to be enabled in the BIOS/UEFI settings). On Intel Macbooks with the T2 chip (=where the Secure Enclave is among other functions like the Touchbar, signal processing, audio and certain codecs), Apple could define a TPM 2.0 compatible interface that is reported in the UEFI while booting and can be used in Operating Systems that rely on TPM (more than Windows). Or Apple could enable the virtual TPM in the Intel chips. Both could work. Years later, they still haven’t enabled any of both.
On the M1 there is no UEFI, and the boot process works completely differently, so you need virtualization software that emulates the TPM and offer drivers for video (and DirectX), touchpad, mouse, thunderbolt, USB, etc.
I have Windows 11 installed on my M1 Mac mini with Parallels and it runs very well as far as I have seen (not used it much).
The only issue I have seen is getting it activated. Windows 11 is free to owners of Windows 10 and I have a license for 10 Pro but it was not installed on my ARM Mac for obvious reasons. Have a message in to Microsoft and will see.
Try a Windoze 7 product key. I don't know if it'll work on the ARM version, but it definitely will for Intel versions.
If it will not take a product key for Windows 10 Pro I am sure it will not take one for 7.
I have Windows 11 installed on my M1 Mac mini with Parallels and it runs very well as far as I have seen (not used it much).
The only issue I have seen is getting it activated. Windows 11 is free to owners of Windows 10 and I have a license for 10 Pro but it was not installed on my ARM Mac for obvious reasons. Have a message in to Microsoft and will see.
You might be able to get around this
From Activation - choose troubleshoot - you should eventually be able to select I have changed my hardware - then you should be able to select devices on which you have Win 10 currently licensed - choose one to replace
This is what I did - sorry cant remember the exact process - but essentially you want to replace an existing device with you new device - there is a way without having to contact microsoft (although I cant say if it will work between changing CPU types)
To be clear, Parallels Desktop only supports the ARM version of Windows 11,
NOT the Intel version of Windows 11
What is strange in itself. With a virtual TPM they could have even Microsoft backed support for Windows 11 on Intel. On the other hand, the ARM version of Windows 11 on Apple Silicon aka M1 isn’t backed by Microsoft support. E.g. as a business you would never engage in a scenario where you would run Windows 11 on ARM on your M1 Macbook.
Eh?
If you have an Intel mac you can run the Intel version of Windows 11
To be clear, Parallels Desktop only supports the ARM version of Windows 11,
NOT the Intel version of Windows 11
What is strange in itself. With a virtual TPM they could have even Microsoft backed support for Windows 11 on Intel. On the other hand, the ARM version of Windows 11 on Apple Silicon aka M1 isn’t backed by Microsoft support. E.g. as a business you would never engage in a scenario where you would run Windows 11 on ARM on your M1 Macbook.
Eh?
If you have an Intel mac you can run the Intel version of Windows 11
You can with Windows 10 but not 11 -- because, although they have the TPM chip it is not supported by Apple.
To be clear, Parallels Desktop only supports the ARM version of Windows 11,
NOT the Intel version of Windows 11
What is strange in itself. With a virtual TPM they could have even Microsoft backed support for Windows 11 on Intel. On the other hand, the ARM version of Windows 11 on Apple Silicon aka M1 isn’t backed by Microsoft support. E.g. as a business you would never engage in a scenario where you would run Windows 11 on ARM on your M1 Macbook.
Eh?
If you have an Intel mac you can run the Intel version of Windows 11
You can with Windows 10 but not 11 -- because, although they have the TPM chip it is not supported by Apple.
To be clear, Parallels Desktop only supports the ARM version of Windows 11,
NOT the Intel version of Windows 11
What is strange in itself. With a virtual TPM they could have even Microsoft backed support for Windows 11 on Intel. On the other hand, the ARM version of Windows 11 on Apple Silicon aka M1 isn’t backed by Microsoft support. E.g. as a business you would never engage in a scenario where you would run Windows 11 on ARM on your M1 Macbook.
Eh?
If you have an Intel mac you can run the Intel version of Windows 11
You can with Windows 10 but not 11 -- because, although they have the TPM chip it is not supported by Apple.
On an Intel Mac you can't run Windows 11 natively/bootcamp style. On an intel Mac you can virtualize Windows 11 in both Parallels & VMware Fusion - both of these support virtual TPM & work quite well.
Just to clear something up that some people might be thinking about, Apple has had a TPM for years, it’s called the Secure Enclave. It’s just not compatible with the TPM used by AMD and Intel, and Apple will never open it up for third party use.
but this development shows that the TPM, as used by AMD and Intel, at least, can easily be worked around by software, so its value is questionable.
What does Windows 11 on ARM have to do with Intel / AMD TPM?
This is Windows 11 for ARM only. There has always been Software TPMs and Hypervisor TPMs (amongst the 5 types of TPM 2.0 Implementations).
It has everything to do with it. Microsoft has stated several times now, that TPM 2 is required to install Win 11 on a machine. Since no ARM chip has that, you can’t DIRECTLY install even the ARM version on any ARM machine, including Apple’s. I’ve already said that software can work around it, so you don’t seem to have read my entire post. I also said, not in those words, that it’s a flaw.
Apologies if I'm misunderstanding but how is it a flaw when it's by design? The ARM-based Surface Pro X has a Firmware TPM chip. The Hypervisor TPM (vTPM) is a software solution to do the same job as the Firmware TPM Chip. A Hypervisor TPM is a recognised and accepted implementation of the TPM 2.0 spec. Where is the flaw?
And I still fail to see how the Intel / AMD TPM implementations have anything to do with Windows 11 on ARM. I did read your entire post but it's not clear.
Because Microsoft has stated that the TPM 2 CHIP is required.
Just to clear something up that some people might be thinking about, Apple has had a TPM for years, it’s called the Secure Enclave. It’s just not compatible with the TPM used by AMD and Intel, and Apple will never open it up for third party use.
but this development shows that the TPM, as used by AMD and Intel, at least, can easily be worked around by software, so its value is questionable.
What does Windows 11 on ARM have to do with Intel / AMD TPM?
This is Windows 11 for ARM only. There has always been Software TPMs and Hypervisor TPMs (amongst the 5 types of TPM 2.0 Implementations).
It has everything to do with it. Microsoft has stated several times now, that TPM 2 is required to install Win 11 on a machine. Since no ARM chip has that, you can’t DIRECTLY install even the ARM version on any ARM machine, including Apple’s. I’ve already said that software can work around it, so you don’t seem to have read my entire post. I also said, not in those words, that it’s a flaw.
Apologies if I'm misunderstanding but how is it a flaw when it's by design? The ARM-based Surface Pro X has a Firmware TPM chip. The Hypervisor TPM (vTPM) is a software solution to do the same job as the Firmware TPM Chip. A Hypervisor TPM is a recognised and accepted implementation of the TPM 2.0 spec. Where is the flaw?
And I still fail to see how the Intel / AMD TPM implementations have anything to do with Windows 11 on ARM. I did read your entire post but it's not clear.
Because Microsoft has stated that the TPM 2 CHIP is required.
Except where a Virtual Machine is used.
Some key points from Microsoft’s documentation dated 10/07/21…
Just to clear something up that some people might be thinking about, Apple has had a TPM for years, it’s called the Secure Enclave. It’s just not compatible with the TPM used by AMD and Intel, and Apple will never open it up for third party use.
but this development shows that the TPM, as used by AMD and Intel, at least, can easily be worked around by software, so its value is questionable.
What does Windows 11 on ARM have to do with Intel / AMD TPM?
This is Windows 11 for ARM only. There has always been Software TPMs and Hypervisor TPMs (amongst the 5 types of TPM 2.0 Implementations).
It has everything to do with it. Microsoft has stated several times now, that TPM 2 is required to install Win 11 on a machine. Since no ARM chip has that, you can’t DIRECTLY install even the ARM version on any ARM machine, including Apple’s. I’ve already said that software can work around it, so you don’t seem to have read my entire post. I also said, not in those words, that it’s a flaw.
Apologies if I'm misunderstanding but how is it a flaw when it's by design? The ARM-based Surface Pro X has a Firmware TPM chip. The Hypervisor TPM (vTPM) is a software solution to do the same job as the Firmware TPM Chip. A Hypervisor TPM is a recognised and accepted implementation of the TPM 2.0 spec. Where is the flaw?
And I still fail to see how the Intel / AMD TPM implementations have anything to do with Windows 11 on ARM. I did read your entire post but it's not clear.
Because Microsoft has stated that the TPM 2 CHIP is required.
Except where a Virtual Machine is used.
Some key points from Microsoft’s documentation dated 10/07/21…
Virtual TPM 2.0 is emulated in the guest VM independent
of the Hyper-V host TPM presence or version.
...
So a Hyper-V Host doesn’t need a physical TPM. Parallels are
adopting the same principle of course due to the lack of a physical TPM chip in
Macs.
Ok. But it’s still a flaw, really. The entire idea of a TPM chip is that it’s almost impossible to break into, as Apple’s Secure Enclave has shown. Once you allow a virtual one, you leave it open for malicious entities to modify.
To be clear, Parallels Desktop only supports the ARM version of Windows 11,
NOT the Intel version of Windows 11
What is strange in itself. With a virtual TPM they could have even Microsoft backed support for Windows 11 on Intel. On the other hand, the ARM version of Windows 11 on Apple Silicon aka M1 isn’t backed by Microsoft support. E.g. as a business you would never engage in a scenario where you would run Windows 11 on ARM on your M1 Macbook.
Eh?
If you have an Intel mac you can run the Intel version of Windows 11
You can with Windows 10 but not 11 -- because, although they have the TPM chip it is not supported by Apple.
On an Intel Mac you can't run Windows 11 natively/bootcamp style. On an intel Mac you can virtualize Windows 11 in both Parallels & VMware Fusion - both of these support virtual TPM & work quite well.
Yeh, that's true. But, the conversation was about whether a business would try to run Microsoft software on a machine that is not supported by Microsoft. I'm sure that some would -- particularly on an exception basis, but I suspect that most IT departments would shy away from it as a general rule.
Comments
Yctt_zh said:You are right.
The thing is that with Windows on ARM, Microsoft supports only a handful of devices running a few ARM processors of Qualcomm. Even the customized Microsoft SQ1 and SQ2 are manufactured by Qualcomm in a joint development. By working with Qualcomm, the current Windows on ARM are optimized for these Qualcomm ARM processors, including support for secure boot, TPM and DirectX and hence even hardware virtualization. All aspects that needs to be emulated by the virtualization software (Parallels and others) or Microsoft needs to work with Apple to hardware support the M1/Apple Silicon - both not of interest to Apple neither Microsoft.
On the M1 there is no UEFI, and the boot process works completely differently, so you need virtualization software that emulates the TPM and offer drivers for video (and DirectX), touchpad, mouse, thunderbolt, USB, etc.
From Activation - choose troubleshoot - you should eventually be able to select I have changed my hardware - then you should be able to select devices on which you have Win 10 currently licensed - choose one to replace
This is what I did - sorry cant remember the exact process - but essentially you want to replace an existing device with you new device - there is a way without having to contact microsoft (although I cant say if it will work between changing CPU types)
If you have an Intel mac you can run the Intel version of Windows 11
You can with Windows 10 but not 11 -- because, although they have the TPM chip it is not supported by Apple.
Except where a Virtual Machine is used.
Some key points from Microsoft’s documentation dated 10/07/21…
Windows 11 requirements - What's new in Windows | Microsoft Docs
This article lists the system requirements for Windows 11. Windows 11 is also supported on a virtual machine (VM).
Virtual machine support
The following configuration requirements apply to VMs running Windows 11.
· Security: Secure Boot capable, virtual TPM enabled
Virtual TPM 2.0 is emulated in the guest VM independent of the Hyper-V host TPM presence or version.
...
So a Hyper-V Host doesn’t need a physical TPM. Parallels are adopting the same principle of course due to the lack of a physical TPM chip in Macs.
Yeh, that's true. But, the conversation was about whether a business would try to run Microsoft software on a machine that is not supported by Microsoft. I'm sure that some would -- particularly on an exception basis, but I suspect that most IT departments would shy away from it as a general rule.