New MacBook Pro with M1 Max processor will ditch Touch Bar, adopt MagSafe

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 58
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,687member
    retrogusto said:
     but honestly I could do without the “tough love” 
    One of the biggest downside of being an Apple fan, that's for sure :tongue: 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 58
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,687member
    MplsP said:
    Your comment about projectors is spot on as well. I have yet to see a conference room with a USB C connection but without exception they all have HDMI cables. 
    Several rooms I used to routinely go to still only had VGA (!)
    Thankfully I no longer go into the office.  Still do visit customers, though so...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 58
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,687member
    chia said:
    Clamourers for USB-A ports on the new MacBook Pros have appeared with depressing predictability. It seems contradictory to want old tech on new products: the official USB organisation has dropped the USB-A connector from the current standard: USB 4 is achieved only via USB-C connectors.
    If I lived in a bubble I'd agree all this smugness over old tech.  However, I don't.  I'm surrounded by dozens of external uses I have no control over where USB A is part of the workflow.  It's called life.  Apple used to have the slogan "computers for the rest of us" - not sure which "us" they are making these for that can live in a pure USB C only bubble but it's a pretty small number of folks and certainly not "the rest of us".

    Don't confuse my objection with some sort of profession of love for USB A - I hate the connector and would be thrilled if everything could just go USB C tomorrow.  It's a far more intelligently designed connector.  The problem is I'm stuck here, in the real world.  I don't see USB A going away in a significant way for another few years at least.  Hell it was only until recently PC motherboards started shipping with USB C ports, and their inclusion on PC laptops are still hit and miss, although they are becoming more common as both AMD and Intel have support in all their motherboard chipsets now.
    MplsPelijahgwatto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 58
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,606member
    crowley said:
    chia said:
    Clamourers for USB-A ports on the new MacBook Pros have appeared with depressing predictability. It seems contradictory to want old tech on new products: the official USB organisation has dropped the USB-A connector from the current standard: USB 4 is achieved only via USB-C connectors.

    All this clamour for USB-A ports is ironic seeing how 20 years ago Apple introduced the iMac with just USB[-A] ports, and there was lots of whining back then as to why Apple couldn’t also add the SCSI and Serial ports of the day. 

    The USB-C connector is superior both in ease of use and the features it can offer; if Apple kept on catering to the technology luddites we’d all still be using ”laptops” the size and weight of the Macintosh Portable with ADB and SCSI ports.

    It’s difficult to believe that those incapable of adapting to a $20-50 USB-C/Bluetooth mouse, or a $20 dollar USB-C to HDMI cable/adaptor, are serious, or should be taken seriously, in their consideration of several thousand dollar MacBook Pros for professional revenue earning work.
    The USB-C connector is inferior in one crucial way: it doesn't work with the millions of USB-A devices already out there, at least not without an additional adaptor.  

    People who want USB-A are not luddites, we're perfectly happy for USB-C ports to be on our devices, and will use them as we acquire USB-C devices.  But we don't want to have our existing experience with USB-A accessories to be compromised for some corporate crusade for technological progress and simplicity that we haven't bought into.  Many of those USB-A devices are far in excess of the $20-50 that you pluck out of the air, and it wouldn't even matter if they weren't; Apple demanding any additional purchases of a MacBook upgrader is obnoxious and turns people off Apple.  The exact same was true with the original iMac; Apple should have had legacy ports.

    There will be a day when USB-A is small beans, where the number of accessories has dwindled to the insignificant, and that is the appropriate time to drop the port.  Apple dropped it for some of the notebookswhen they were still selling iPhone with USB-A cables, so quit the apologist claptrap.
    Exactly. The USB C ports on my MBP are all USB 3. They have no USB capabilities that a USB A port doesn't but they won't work without an adapter, making them inferior from a usability perspective. USB C can do power delivery, but unless you need more than 15W it doesn't matter. 
    dk49 said:
    viclauyyc said:
    dk49 said:
    After having used the Macbook Pro with touch bar for 4 years, I can tell you that it's been basically useless for me. Even a hindrance. And I think most people feel the same. Otherwise why would Apple remove it?

    The only thing I will miss about the touch bar is the spelling suggestions which were handy. 
    USB-A port is still very useful and important, yet apple still removed It years ago. 
    They are not the same thing. Usb-a was a legacy tech (with USB-C replacing it). Touch bar was supposed to be the new "standard". So it's a quite different situation.  
    You can't really call USB A a legacy tech. (to quote a lot of other people, it's only a connector.) As I said above, with the exception of power delivery USB A has all the same capabilities as USB C. Once USB 4 comes out that will change, but realistically, USB 3 is still more than adequate for almost everything people need anyway, and as a connector it is still dramatically more prevalent than USB C.
    elijahgmuthuk_vanalingamcommand_f
  • Reply 45 of 58
    thedbathedba Posts: 676member
    MplsP said:
    crowley said:
    chia said:
    Clamourers for USB-A ports on the new MacBook Pros have appeared with depressing predictability. It seems contradictory to want old tech on new products: the official USB organisation has dropped the USB-A connector from the current standard: USB 4 is achieved only via USB-C connectors.

    All this clamour for USB-A ports is ironic seeing how 20 years ago Apple introduced the iMac with just USB[-A] ports, and there was lots of whining back then as to why Apple couldn’t also add the SCSI and Serial ports of the day. 

    The USB-C connector is superior both in ease of use and the features it can offer; if Apple kept on catering to the technology luddites we’d all still be using ”laptops” the size and weight of the Macintosh Portable with ADB and SCSI ports.

    It’s difficult to believe that those incapable of adapting to a $20-50 USB-C/Bluetooth mouse, or a $20 dollar USB-C to HDMI cable/adaptor, are serious, or should be taken seriously, in their consideration of several thousand dollar MacBook Pros for professional revenue earning work.
    The USB-C connector is inferior in one crucial way: it doesn't work with the millions of USB-A devices already out there, at least not without an additional adaptor.  

    People who want USB-A are not luddites, we're perfectly happy for USB-C ports to be on our devices, and will use them as we acquire USB-C devices.  But we don't want to have our existing experience with USB-A accessories to be compromised for some corporate crusade for technological progress and simplicity that we haven't bought into.  Many of those USB-A devices are far in excess of the $20-50 that you pluck out of the air, and it wouldn't even matter if they weren't; Apple demanding any additional purchases of a MacBook upgrader is obnoxious and turns people off Apple.  The exact same was true with the original iMac; Apple should have had legacy ports.

    There will be a day when USB-A is small beans, where the number of accessories has dwindled to the insignificant, and that is the appropriate time to drop the port.  Apple dropped it for some of the notebookswhen they were still selling iPhone with USB-A cables, so quit the apologist claptrap.
    Exactly. The USB C ports on my MBP are all USB 3. They have no USB capabilities that a USB A port doesn't but they won't work without an adapter, making them inferior from a usability perspective. USB C can do power delivery, but unless you need more than 15W it doesn't matter. 
    dk49 said:
    viclauyyc said:
    dk49 said:
    After having used the Macbook Pro with touch bar for 4 years, I can tell you that it's been basically useless for me. Even a hindrance. And I think most people feel the same. Otherwise why would Apple remove it?

    The only thing I will miss about the touch bar is the spelling suggestions which were handy. 
    USB-A port is still very useful and important, yet apple still removed It years ago. 
    They are not the same thing. Usb-a was a legacy tech (with USB-C replacing it). Touch bar was supposed to be the new "standard". So it's a quite different situation.  
    You can't really call USB A a legacy tech. (to quote a lot of other people, it's only a connector.) As I said above, with the exception of power delivery USB A has all the same capabilities as USB C. Once USB 4 comes out that will change, but realistically, USB 3 is still more than adequate for almost everything people need anyway, and as a connector it is still dramatically more prevalent than USB C.
    So through one USB-A port you can drive two 4K screens and deliver power at the same time?
    USB4/TB3 can, never heard of any USB-A port that can do the same. 

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1512537-REG/owc_other_world_computing_owctb3prodck_owc_thunderbolt_3_pro.html/overview?c3api=4680,,Computers-OWC,b&msclkid=181f921f9b7110478871f37207eff97d
    edited October 2021 chiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 58
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    Thankfully I bought a third party MagSafe adapter for my intel MPB.  The Roomba has on several occasions snagged the cable and I hate to think what would have happened had it pulled the MBP onto tile the tile floor.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 58
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,995member
    thedba said:
    MplsP said:
    crowley said:
    chia said:
    Clamourers for USB-A ports on the new MacBook Pros have appeared with depressing predictability. It seems contradictory to want old tech on new products: the official USB organisation has dropped the USB-A connector from the current standard: USB 4 is achieved only via USB-C connectors.

    All this clamour for USB-A ports is ironic seeing how 20 years ago Apple introduced the iMac with just USB[-A] ports, and there was lots of whining back then as to why Apple couldn’t also add the SCSI and Serial ports of the day. 

    The USB-C connector is superior both in ease of use and the features it can offer; if Apple kept on catering to the technology luddites we’d all still be using ”laptops” the size and weight of the Macintosh Portable with ADB and SCSI ports.

    It’s difficult to believe that those incapable of adapting to a $20-50 USB-C/Bluetooth mouse, or a $20 dollar USB-C to HDMI cable/adaptor, are serious, or should be taken seriously, in their consideration of several thousand dollar MacBook Pros for professional revenue earning work.
    The USB-C connector is inferior in one crucial way: it doesn't work with the millions of USB-A devices already out there, at least not without an additional adaptor.  

    People who want USB-A are not luddites, we're perfectly happy for USB-C ports to be on our devices, and will use them as we acquire USB-C devices.  But we don't want to have our existing experience with USB-A accessories to be compromised for some corporate crusade for technological progress and simplicity that we haven't bought into.  Many of those USB-A devices are far in excess of the $20-50 that you pluck out of the air, and it wouldn't even matter if they weren't; Apple demanding any additional purchases of a MacBook upgrader is obnoxious and turns people off Apple.  The exact same was true with the original iMac; Apple should have had legacy ports.

    There will be a day when USB-A is small beans, where the number of accessories has dwindled to the insignificant, and that is the appropriate time to drop the port.  Apple dropped it for some of the notebookswhen they were still selling iPhone with USB-A cables, so quit the apologist claptrap.
    Exactly. The USB C ports on my MBP are all USB 3. They have no USB capabilities that a USB A port doesn't but they won't work without an adapter, making them inferior from a usability perspective. USB C can do power delivery, but unless you need more than 15W it doesn't matter. 
    dk49 said:
    viclauyyc said:
    dk49 said:
    After having used the Macbook Pro with touch bar for 4 years, I can tell you that it's been basically useless for me. Even a hindrance. And I think most people feel the same. Otherwise why would Apple remove it?

    The only thing I will miss about the touch bar is the spelling suggestions which were handy. 
    USB-A port is still very useful and important, yet apple still removed It years ago. 
    They are not the same thing. Usb-a was a legacy tech (with USB-C replacing it). Touch bar was supposed to be the new "standard". So it's a quite different situation.  
    You can't really call USB A a legacy tech. (to quote a lot of other people, it's only a connector.) As I said above, with the exception of power delivery USB A has all the same capabilities as USB C. Once USB 4 comes out that will change, but realistically, USB 3 is still more than adequate for almost everything people need anyway, and as a connector it is still dramatically more prevalent than USB C.
    So through one USB-A port you can drive two 4K screens and deliver power at the same time?
    USB4/TB3 can, never heard of any USB-A port that can do the same. 

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1512537-REG/owc_other_world_computing_owctb3prodck_owc_thunderbolt_3_pro.html/overview?c3api=4680,,Computers-OWC,b&msclkid=181f921f9b7110478871f37207eff97d
    So what?  I don't need to drive two 4K screens through each of my four USB-C ports.  What I do need to do is plug in my USB-A accessories.  Apple makes that difficult by giving me a laptop with 4 USB-C ports, two of which I hardly ever use.

    To reiterate, no one who wants USB-A doesn't want USB-C.  We want both.  Apple only gives USB-C.
    muthuk_vanalingamelijahgcommand_f
  • Reply 48 of 58
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,368member
    USB-A is not going to return to MacBooks. A USB-A port is a built-in throttling mechanism. Using a dongle to connect a USB-A device to a USB-C port loses nothing, except the minor inconvenience of the dongle. Using a dongle to connect a USB-C device to a USB-A port loses speed, functionality and power, plus you have to have a dongle. On top of that, the Chasis for either MacBook Pro or Air would need an ugly structural bump added to accommodate the larger hole for USB-A. They'll put ugly bumps on iPhones to accommodate new camera tech, but I doubt they'll do that to bring back a legacy port.
    williamlondoncommand_fwatto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 58
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,471member
    command_f said:
    I bought the first MBP with a Touch Bar shortly after it was released. I assumed that Apple had a cunning plan for the Touch Bar that would more than compensate for its disadvantages - turned out that they didn't. Touch ID, on the other hand, is really valuable.

    I could write a book on why the Touch Bar is a bad idea but some of the obvious ones are:
    • You have to look at it to use its keys 'cos you can't feel them
    • This is made worse by the fact they move around so the same key can be in different places
    • It often needs an extra press just to use it since it times-out and goes blank (even on mains power)
    • The bar has limited capacity so lists (eg of E-Mail addresses) are often incomplete compared to the version on the display
    • And why wouldn't you use the display version anyway 'cos that's where you are looking?
    • It adds cost to the computer
    • It adds hardware complexity so, in principle, reduces reliability
    • Heck, it probably even reduces battery life
    In its favour, the utility for configuring it is really cool.

    So I hope the new MBP loses the Touch Bar. I really hope it does include the extra port types though, to save carrying dongles or being embarrassed when you've forgotten them. My MBP before the Touch Bar was a real road warrior: you could connect it to almost everything in the real world without a dongle. Making things smaller and lighter by moving required functionality into separate units is not clever design (hey, look at the size of the new notebook - you'll need to remember to take along a battery though, and a display and keyboard and the really neat SSD... but look how small and light the notebook is!).

    As to a notch, I'm not really sure I care. On the iPhone, Apple rearranged icons so the middle of the top of the display wasn't needed. As I write this on my current MBP, I see a big empty space in the middle of the Menu Bar and I happen to know that macOS already knows how to dump Menu Bar items should it be full so I doubt it would be a big issue. If it does come to pass, I also very much doubt it will be as big as the schematic seems to suggest.
    </rant>
    A mouse driven HUD version of the Touch Bar interface on the display that could easily be toggled on and off might be a good compromise. The in application contextual controls can be very useful.
    edited October 2021 command_fwatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 58
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,368member
    ApplePoor said:
    Removing the Touch Bar is one less failure point in the laptop. 
    And resurrecting the physical keys would add a baker's dozen more failure points. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 58
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,368member
    MacPro said:
    command_f said:
    I bought the first MBP with a Touch Bar shortly after it was released. I assumed that Apple had a cunning plan for the Touch Bar that would more than compensate for its disadvantages - turned out that they didn't. Touch ID, on the other hand, is really valuable.

    I could write a book on why the Touch Bar is a bad idea but some of the obvious ones are:
    • You have to look at it to use its keys 'cos you can't feel them
    • This is made worse by the fact they move around so the same key can be in different places
    • It often needs an extra press just to use it since it times-out and goes blank (even on mains power)
    • The bar has limited capacity so lists (eg of E-Mail addresses) are often incomplete compared to the version on the display
    • And why wouldn't you use the display version anyway 'cos that's where you are looking?
    • It adds cost to the computer
    • It adds hardware complexity so, in principle, reduces reliability
    • Heck, it probably even reduces battery life
    In its favour, the utility for configuring it is really cool.

    So I hope the new MBP loses the Touch Bar. I really hope it does include the extra port types though, to save carrying dongles or being embarrassed when you've forgotten them. My MBP before the Touch Bar was a real road warrior: you could connect it to almost everything in the real world without a dongle. Making things smaller and lighter by moving required functionality into separate units is not clever design (hey, look at the size of the new notebook - you'll need to remember to take along a battery though, and a display and keyboard and the really neat SSD... but look how small and light the notebook is!).

    As to a notch, I'm not really sure I care. On the iPhone, Apple rearranged icons so the middle of the top of the display wasn't needed. As I write this on my current MBP, I see a big empty space in the middle of the Menu Bar and I happen to know that macOS already knows how to dump Menu Bar items should it be full so I doubt it would be a big issue. If it does come to pass, I also very much doubt it will be as big as the schematic seems to suggest.
    </rant>
    A mouse driven HUD version of the Touch Bar interface on the display that could easily be toggled on and off might be a good compromise. The in application contextual controls can be very useful.
    Since the touch bar often mimics existing onscreen controls, this seems a bit nonsensical, don't you think?

    I could be wrong, but I don't think they're going to drop the touch bar.

    EDIT: I was wrong.
    edited October 2021 williamlondoncommand_fwatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 58
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,586member
    AppleZulu said:
    USB-A is not going to return to MacBooks. A USB-A port is a built-in throttling mechanism. Using a dongle to connect a USB-A device to a USB-C port loses nothing, except the minor inconvenience of the dongle. Using a dongle to connect a USB-C device to a USB-A port loses speed, functionality and power, plus you have to have a dongle. On top of that, the Chasis for either MacBook Pro or Air would need an ugly structural bump added to accommodate the larger hole for USB-A. They'll put ugly bumps on iPhones to accommodate new camera tech, but I doubt they'll do that to bring back a legacy port.
    The only "throttling" with USB-A is if someone uses a 20gbps device with it. USB-A supports up to 10gbps which is plenty fast enough for all but the most demanding applications. Only the more expensive SSDs can saturate 10gbps.
    command_f
  • Reply 53 of 58
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,368member
    elijahg said:
    AppleZulu said:
    USB-A is not going to return to MacBooks. A USB-A port is a built-in throttling mechanism. Using a dongle to connect a USB-A device to a USB-C port loses nothing, except the minor inconvenience of the dongle. Using a dongle to connect a USB-C device to a USB-A port loses speed, functionality and power, plus you have to have a dongle. On top of that, the Chasis for either MacBook Pro or Air would need an ugly structural bump added to accommodate the larger hole for USB-A. They'll put ugly bumps on iPhones to accommodate new camera tech, but I doubt they'll do that to bring back a legacy port.
    The only "throttling" with USB-A is if someone uses a 20gbps device with it. USB-A supports up to 10gbps which is plenty fast enough for all but the most demanding applications. Only the more expensive SSDs can saturate 10gbps.
    Right. And no one is going to produce power-intensive or data-intensive hardware or applications in the next five to seven years during the expected useful life of a MacBook Pro. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 58
    Yesterday's post:

    ----------

    I am super excited for the new M series processor. May it be the performance beast we’ve been waiting for. 

    Hoping for 64 GB RAM.
    Sure, the M series handles RAM better than the x86 setup, but working memory is working memory and working with photoshop, illustrator, after effects, and premiere together to get project done on on right deadlines is a near impossibility right now. After effects snd photoshop in particular use ALL of my RAM currently. Granted, we left the HD era behind at the start of 2020 and everything we do is 4K at the lowest end. Caching to SSDs mitigates somewhat, but let’s be real. RAM is where it’s at.16 in my MBP is a joke. And even my 64GB iMac gets congested. 128 GB would be a dream. 

    Can totally deal with the notch if it means a tiny bezel. 

    Would like for the design to look similar to current MBP (and nothing at all like the recent low end iMac). It’s just about perfect looking since 2016. Still the nicest looking notebook out there. Refine. Don’t change just to change. 

    Wanting space grey and silver to remain. 

    Personally wishing the Touch Bar would remain. I dig it. 

    Looking forward to vastly improved screen resolution and hoping it’s ridiculously bright. 

    A new 30+” iMac would be amazing, but Apple can only move so fast with many working from home. 

    ----------

    :)

    Cannot wait for this to arrive.

    Stinking expensive though...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 58
    Ordered the new MacBook Pro 14" with M1 Max (32 core GPU), 64GB memory and 4TB SSD at the gun. Will be here OCT 28.

    It has both HDMI and SDXC camera card capability plus the MagSafe of old. Fortunately I have many of the 96 watt chargers for my 2019 16" MacBook Pro so one charger will work for both machines. The cord is separate from the charging brick. which is a big improvement.

    The 14" size would require a slightly larger leather case than the 13" MBAir M1 but smaller than my 2019 16" laptop. The 14" compared to my MBAir M1 is 0.34" wider, 0.35" taller 0.02 thinner. It also weighs 0.7  pounds heavier.

    New 16" has larger dimensions than my 2019 16". It is 0.02" thicker, 0.08" narrower, 0.09" taller and weighs 0.4 pounds more.

    I need the Intel cpu capability of my 2019 16"  for some older hardware devices and monitors.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 58
    AppleZulu said:
    ApplePoor said:
    Removing the Touch Bar is one less failure point in the laptop. 
    And resurrecting the physical keys would add a baker's dozen more failure points. 
    Not quite a fair comparison, the Touch Bar is a complex beastie compared to the simple switch that is a key.

    Though Apple's track record on keyboards is a little spotty, now I come to think about it.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 58
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,586member
    AppleZulu said:
    elijahg said:
    AppleZulu said:
    USB-A is not going to return to MacBooks. A USB-A port is a built-in throttling mechanism. Using a dongle to connect a USB-A device to a USB-C port loses nothing, except the minor inconvenience of the dongle. Using a dongle to connect a USB-C device to a USB-A port loses speed, functionality and power, plus you have to have a dongle. On top of that, the Chasis for either MacBook Pro or Air would need an ugly structural bump added to accommodate the larger hole for USB-A. They'll put ugly bumps on iPhones to accommodate new camera tech, but I doubt they'll do that to bring back a legacy port.
    The only "throttling" with USB-A is if someone uses a 20gbps device with it. USB-A supports up to 10gbps which is plenty fast enough for all but the most demanding applications. Only the more expensive SSDs can saturate 10gbps.
    Right. And no one is going to produce power-intensive or data-intensive hardware or applications in the next five to seven years during the expected useful life of a MacBook Pro. 
    Then you use one of the USB-C ports instead. Problem solved, and no dongles to boot! Apple added SD and HDMI back to the MBP, are you seething about that?
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