Apple could be the next target of China's push to get more data stored locally

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 58
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,111member

    He sees any criticism of the U.S. no matter how true or justified as an attack.
    Nope, I criticise the US all the time.  Way more than China.
    Likewise he sees any defense of China, no matter how true or justified, also as an attack. 
    Nope, I think China has a very talented administration who have done wonders for the development of their country, and I don't blame them for patriotism, or China-first policies.
    Likewise, he sees anybody who hates China as a good guy and anybody who doesn't as a bad guy. 
    Nope.  I judge an argument by its quality, not by the affiliation of the person.  Hence you have people like Japhey saying things like "I know you and I have battled in the past, but".  
    In his world there is no middle ground:  You either hate China or you love it.
    Nope, I have very mixed feelings on China.

    It's the mark of brainwashed extremists everywhere and from every political side and every religion.  They aren't interested in truth, justice or fairness or even right & wrong.  They are only interested in pushing their agenda and getting others to support their ideology, theology or dogma.  It's their mission.  It's their war.
    Nope.

    I don't inject China into any and all political discussions.  I don't inject Trump into any and all political discussions.  I don't drop Hitler into my arguments at the drop of a hat.

    And I don't engage in all that many political discussions on here, because they're quite tedious.  I've been increasingly trying to disassociate myself from poilitics in general.  Sometimes I fail at that.

    I have no dogma.  I have no war.  Yet in every thread about China there you and wave particle will be, fighting the fight.  Everything you say here is projection of your own craziness.


    I also don't watch any cable news, as I've told you many times I don't live in the USA, so I don't know why you've even thrown that in.  Just throwing the menu at the wall to see what will stick?

    Also, sure the USA has a higher crime rate than China, including a much higher homicide rate.  But the USA isn't the only Western country,  others have a lower crime rate, and if the claim is that western values lead to more crime, that's incredibly dubious.  And waveparticle confused the issue by doubling down and posting a series of ridiculous false claims.  Don't blame me for his ineptitude.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 42 of 58
    crowley said:

    He sees any criticism of the U.S. no matter how true or justified as an attack.
    Nope, I criticise the US all the time.  Way more than China.
    Likewise he sees any defense of China, no matter how true or justified, also as an attack. 
    Nope, I think China has a very talented administration who have done wonders for the development of their country, and I don't blame them for patriotism, or China-first policies.
    Likewise, he sees anybody who hates China as a good guy and anybody who doesn't as a bad guy. 
    Nope.  I judge an argument by its quality, not by the affiliation of the person.  Hence you have people like Japhey saying things like "I know you and I have battled in the past, but".  
    In his world there is no middle ground:  You either hate China or you love it.
    Nope, I have very mixed feelings on China.

    It's the mark of brainwashed extremists everywhere and from every political side and every religion.  They aren't interested in truth, justice or fairness or even right & wrong.  They are only interested in pushing their agenda and getting others to support their ideology, theology or dogma.  It's their mission.  It's their war.
    Nope.

    I don't inject China into any and all political discussions.  I don't inject Trump into any and all political discussions.  I don't drop Hitler into my arguments at the drop of a hat.

    And I don't engage in all that many political discussions on here, because they're quite tedious.  I've been increasingly trying to disassociate myself from poilitics in general.  Sometimes I fail at that.

    I have no dogma.  I have no war.  Yet in every thread about China there you and wave particle will be, fighting the fight.  Everything you say here is projection of your own craziness.


    I also don't watch any cable news, as I've told you many times I don't live in the USA, so I don't know why you've even thrown that in.  Just throwing the menu at the wall to see what will stick?

    Also, sure the USA has a higher crime rate than China, including a much higher homicide rate.  But the USA isn't the only Western country,  others have a lower crime rate, and if the claim is that western values lead to more crime, that's incredibly dubious.  And waveparticle confused the issue by doubling down and posting a series of ridiculous false claims.  Don't blame me for his ineptitude.
    Which country do you live? You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 

    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 

    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
  • Reply 43 of 58
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,498member
    https://www.businessinsider.com/china-economy-xi-jinping-evergrande-debt-american-world-fallout-2021-10

    If China's economy keeps stumbling, it won't just take down Beijing — the whole world will collapse with it


    For decades, China has relied on cheap labor and eye-popping amounts of debt, handed out by government-owned banks, to fuel economic growth — pouring money into massive apartment developments, factories, bridges, and other projects at lightning speed. Now the country needs people to actually use, and pay for, everything that's been built. Chinese President Xi Jinping must strike a delicate balance between eliminating China's crushing debt and maintaining consumer confidence. A misstep could spur global chaos, both economic and political.

    I bought popcorn, just in case.

    Looks like the "miracle" of China's growth was lots of smoke, and lots of mirrors.
  • Reply 44 of 58
    tmay said:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/china-economy-xi-jinping-evergrande-debt-american-world-fallout-2021-10

    If China's economy keeps stumbling, it won't just take down Beijing — the whole world will collapse with it


    For decades, China has relied on cheap labor and eye-popping amounts of debt, handed out by government-owned banks, to fuel economic growth — pouring money into massive apartment developments, factories, bridges, and other projects at lightning speed. Now the country needs people to actually use, and pay for, everything that's been built. Chinese President Xi Jinping must strike a delicate balance between eliminating China's crushing debt and maintaining consumer confidence. A misstep could spur global chaos, both economic and political.

    I bought popcorn, just in case.

    Looks like the "miracle" of China's growth was lots of smoke, and lots of mirrors.
    https://www.pbs.org/video/ice-world-4tfoqw/

    This will be world's largest theme park. The bottom is a year round ice playground. This is incredible!
  • Reply 45 of 58
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,498member
    https://www.afr.com/world/north-america/america-s-backing-competing-with-china-20211024-p592n2

    Above and beyond the country’s internal divisions, concern about China is driving the American public’s overwhelming support for the US playing a active global role and engaging with Asia.
    Duh....
  • Reply 46 of 58
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,498member
    tmay said:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/china-economy-xi-jinping-evergrande-debt-american-world-fallout-2021-10

    If China's economy keeps stumbling, it won't just take down Beijing — the whole world will collapse with it


    For decades, China has relied on cheap labor and eye-popping amounts of debt, handed out by government-owned banks, to fuel economic growth — pouring money into massive apartment developments, factories, bridges, and other projects at lightning speed. Now the country needs people to actually use, and pay for, everything that's been built. Chinese President Xi Jinping must strike a delicate balance between eliminating China's crushing debt and maintaining consumer confidence. A misstep could spur global chaos, both economic and political.

    I bought popcorn, just in case.

    Looks like the "miracle" of China's growth was lots of smoke, and lots of mirrors.
    https://www.pbs.org/video/ice-world-4tfoqw/

    This will be world's largest theme park. The bottom is a year round ice playground. This is incredible!
    Kind of an odd response to my link, but okay.
  • Reply 47 of 58
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,111member
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    tmaymuthuk_vanalingamrobaba
  • Reply 48 of 58
    crowley said:
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    I boldfaced this accusation because it proves that you do not know Chinese culture and you do not understand CCP. Read the following news.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59005937
    It is proof that sex crimes are not tolerated in China unlike US. Trump solicited sex yet he claims he is Christian. And he has zero responsibility for this sex in US. What a contrast!!


    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 49 of 58
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,111member
    crowley said:
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    I boldfaced this accusation because it proves that you do not know Chinese culture and you do not understand CCP. Read the following news.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59005937
    It is proof that sex crimes are not tolerated in China unlike US. Trump solicited sex yet he claims he is Christian. And he has zero responsibility for this sex in US. What a contrast!!
    Sure, a celebrity is arrested for soliciting sex so there can’t be any truth to the many reports of sexual violence being perpetuated by soldiers against an ethnic minority. 

    If that’s an acceptable standard of proof over there then maybe I don’t understand China after all. 

    I don’t give a rats ass about the the USA.
    edited October 26 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 50 of 58
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,498member
    crowley said:
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    I boldfaced this accusation because it proves that you do not know Chinese culture and you do not understand CCP. Read the following news.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59005937
    It is proof that sex crimes are not tolerated in China unlike US. Trump solicited sex yet he claims he is Christian. And he has zero responsibility for this sex in US. What a contrast!!


    https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/23/china-meritocracy-youth-burned-out/

    The pleas are everywhere. Newspaper editorials urge young people to “strive in the prime of their life.” City governments team up with famous brands to encourage young people to consume more. Young couples visiting neighborhood party committees to obtain permission to get an abortion find themselves subjected to earnest lectures on the delight of childrearing.

    The Chinese Communist Party is using the whole of its propaganda might to push a simple message: The young must throw themselves into work and life with a zest befitting China’s glorious “New Era.”

    The party has reasons to worry. There’s a counternarrative getting in the way of its determination to turn young Chinese into good producers, whether of GDP or children. Young Chinese are curtailing their expectations and ambitions. Many of them are downgrading lifestyle choices around diet, travel, and more. They fill social media with talks of the futility of endeavoring and the hollowness of desire. And they are not ready for marriage and children, and don’t know if they will ever be.

    There have been concerns around young people in China for decades, as in any society. But two factors have made the leadership there more anxious than ever to address their social and economic withdrawal: the COVID-19 pandemic and the country’s upcoming demographic crisis. Although China experienced a robust economic recovery from the pandemic, the stimulus measures it had required further distorted the country’s debt-laden economy. The corrective that Chinese leaders are hoping for—a giant wave of pent-up demand from young Chinese—has yet to materialize.

    I understand the whole "sex crimes" meme you are making is completely false since I live in a State, Nevada, that allows regulated prostitution. Nevadans ignore it for the most part, it isn't a problem, and cuts down on the risks of actual prostitution for both sex workers and clients. 

    Perhaps you should look at what I have posted, as that is a point of fragility for the PRC economy, that is fraught with authoritarian meddling, mostly to ill effect.

    Or not, since it doesn't fit in your PRC centric worldview.
    edited October 27
  • Reply 51 of 58
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    I boldfaced this accusation because it proves that you do not know Chinese culture and you do not understand CCP. Read the following news.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59005937
    It is proof that sex crimes are not tolerated in China unlike US. Trump solicited sex yet he claims he is Christian. And he has zero responsibility for this sex in US. What a contrast!!


    https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/23/china-meritocracy-youth-burned-out/

    The pleas are everywhere. Newspaper editorials urge young people to “strive in the prime of their life.” City governments team up with famous brands to encourage young people to consume more. Young couples visiting neighborhood party committees to obtain permission to get an abortion find themselves subjected to earnest lectures on the delight of childrearing.

    The Chinese Communist Party is using the whole of its propaganda might to push a simple message: The young must throw themselves into work and life with a zest befitting China’s glorious “New Era.”

    The party has reasons to worry. There’s a counternarrative getting in the way of its determination to turn young Chinese into good producers, whether of GDP or children. Young Chinese are curtailing their expectations and ambitions. Many of them are downgrading lifestyle choices around diet, travel, and more. They fill social media with talks of the futility of endeavoring and the hollowness of desire. And they are not ready for marriage and children, and don’t know if they will ever be.

    There have been concerns around young people in China for decades, as in any society. But two factors have made the leadership there more anxious than ever to address their social and economic withdrawal: the COVID-19 pandemic and the country’s upcoming demographic crisis. Although China experienced a robust economic recovery from the pandemic, the stimulus measures it had required further distorted the country’s debt-laden economy. The corrective that Chinese leaders are hoping for—a giant wave of pent-up demand from young Chinese—has yet to materialize.

    I understand the whole "sex crimes" meme you are making is completely false since I live in a State, Nevada, that allows regulated prostitution. Nevadans ignore it for the most part, it isn't a problem, and cuts down on the risks of actual prostitution for both sex workers and clients. 

    Perhaps you should look at what I have posted, as that is a point of fragility for the PRC economy, that is fraught with authoritarian meddling, mostly to ill effect.

    Or not, since it doesn't fit in your PRC centric worldview.
    If China's economy is in problem, that is caused by Trump's economy war toward China. You have succeeded. OK? 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 52 of 58
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,498member
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    I boldfaced this accusation because it proves that you do not know Chinese culture and you do not understand CCP. Read the following news.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59005937
    It is proof that sex crimes are not tolerated in China unlike US. Trump solicited sex yet he claims he is Christian. And he has zero responsibility for this sex in US. What a contrast!!


    https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/23/china-meritocracy-youth-burned-out/

    The pleas are everywhere. Newspaper editorials urge young people to “strive in the prime of their life.” City governments team up with famous brands to encourage young people to consume more. Young couples visiting neighborhood party committees to obtain permission to get an abortion find themselves subjected to earnest lectures on the delight of childrearing.

    The Chinese Communist Party is using the whole of its propaganda might to push a simple message: The young must throw themselves into work and life with a zest befitting China’s glorious “New Era.”

    The party has reasons to worry. There’s a counternarrative getting in the way of its determination to turn young Chinese into good producers, whether of GDP or children. Young Chinese are curtailing their expectations and ambitions. Many of them are downgrading lifestyle choices around diet, travel, and more. They fill social media with talks of the futility of endeavoring and the hollowness of desire. And they are not ready for marriage and children, and don’t know if they will ever be.

    There have been concerns around young people in China for decades, as in any society. But two factors have made the leadership there more anxious than ever to address their social and economic withdrawal: the COVID-19 pandemic and the country’s upcoming demographic crisis. Although China experienced a robust economic recovery from the pandemic, the stimulus measures it had required further distorted the country’s debt-laden economy. The corrective that Chinese leaders are hoping for—a giant wave of pent-up demand from young Chinese—has yet to materialize.

    I understand the whole "sex crimes" meme you are making is completely false since I live in a State, Nevada, that allows regulated prostitution. Nevadans ignore it for the most part, it isn't a problem, and cuts down on the risks of actual prostitution for both sex workers and clients. 

    Perhaps you should look at what I have posted, as that is a point of fragility for the PRC economy, that is fraught with authoritarian meddling, mostly to ill effect.

    Or not, since it doesn't fit in your PRC centric worldview.
    If China's economy is in problem, that is caused by Trump's economy war toward China. You have succeeded. OK? 
    Uh, no, China's current economic problems aren't Trump's, nor Biden's, fault due to trade issues; it just isn't that significant compared to the PRC's economy. 
  • Reply 53 of 58
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    I boldfaced this accusation because it proves that you do not know Chinese culture and you do not understand CCP. Read the following news.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59005937
    It is proof that sex crimes are not tolerated in China unlike US. Trump solicited sex yet he claims he is Christian. And he has zero responsibility for this sex in US. What a contrast!!


    https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/23/china-meritocracy-youth-burned-out/

    The pleas are everywhere. Newspaper editorials urge young people to “strive in the prime of their life.” City governments team up with famous brands to encourage young people to consume more. Young couples visiting neighborhood party committees to obtain permission to get an abortion find themselves subjected to earnest lectures on the delight of childrearing.

    The Chinese Communist Party is using the whole of its propaganda might to push a simple message: The young must throw themselves into work and life with a zest befitting China’s glorious “New Era.”

    The party has reasons to worry. There’s a counternarrative getting in the way of its determination to turn young Chinese into good producers, whether of GDP or children. Young Chinese are curtailing their expectations and ambitions. Many of them are downgrading lifestyle choices around diet, travel, and more. They fill social media with talks of the futility of endeavoring and the hollowness of desire. And they are not ready for marriage and children, and don’t know if they will ever be.

    There have been concerns around young people in China for decades, as in any society. But two factors have made the leadership there more anxious than ever to address their social and economic withdrawal: the COVID-19 pandemic and the country’s upcoming demographic crisis. Although China experienced a robust economic recovery from the pandemic, the stimulus measures it had required further distorted the country’s debt-laden economy. The corrective that Chinese leaders are hoping for—a giant wave of pent-up demand from young Chinese—has yet to materialize.

    I understand the whole "sex crimes" meme you are making is completely false since I live in a State, Nevada, that allows regulated prostitution. Nevadans ignore it for the most part, it isn't a problem, and cuts down on the risks of actual prostitution for both sex workers and clients. 

    Perhaps you should look at what I have posted, as that is a point of fragility for the PRC economy, that is fraught with authoritarian meddling, mostly to ill effect.

    Or not, since it doesn't fit in your PRC centric worldview.
    If China's economy is in problem, that is caused by Trump's economy war toward China. You have succeeded. OK? 
    Uh, no, China's current economic problems aren't Trump's, nor Biden's, fault due to trade issues; it just isn't that significant compared to the PRC's economy. 
    They why do Trump launch the futile trade war in 2018? He is an idiot? 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 54 of 58
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,498member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    I boldfaced this accusation because it proves that you do not know Chinese culture and you do not understand CCP. Read the following news.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59005937
    It is proof that sex crimes are not tolerated in China unlike US. Trump solicited sex yet he claims he is Christian. And he has zero responsibility for this sex in US. What a contrast!!


    https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/23/china-meritocracy-youth-burned-out/

    The pleas are everywhere. Newspaper editorials urge young people to “strive in the prime of their life.” City governments team up with famous brands to encourage young people to consume more. Young couples visiting neighborhood party committees to obtain permission to get an abortion find themselves subjected to earnest lectures on the delight of childrearing.

    The Chinese Communist Party is using the whole of its propaganda might to push a simple message: The young must throw themselves into work and life with a zest befitting China’s glorious “New Era.”

    The party has reasons to worry. There’s a counternarrative getting in the way of its determination to turn young Chinese into good producers, whether of GDP or children. Young Chinese are curtailing their expectations and ambitions. Many of them are downgrading lifestyle choices around diet, travel, and more. They fill social media with talks of the futility of endeavoring and the hollowness of desire. And they are not ready for marriage and children, and don’t know if they will ever be.

    There have been concerns around young people in China for decades, as in any society. But two factors have made the leadership there more anxious than ever to address their social and economic withdrawal: the COVID-19 pandemic and the country’s upcoming demographic crisis. Although China experienced a robust economic recovery from the pandemic, the stimulus measures it had required further distorted the country’s debt-laden economy. The corrective that Chinese leaders are hoping for—a giant wave of pent-up demand from young Chinese—has yet to materialize.

    I understand the whole "sex crimes" meme you are making is completely false since I live in a State, Nevada, that allows regulated prostitution. Nevadans ignore it for the most part, it isn't a problem, and cuts down on the risks of actual prostitution for both sex workers and clients. 

    Perhaps you should look at what I have posted, as that is a point of fragility for the PRC economy, that is fraught with authoritarian meddling, mostly to ill effect.

    Or not, since it doesn't fit in your PRC centric worldview.
    If China's economy is in problem, that is caused by Trump's economy war toward China. You have succeeded. OK? 
    Uh, no, China's current economic problems aren't Trump's, nor Biden's, fault due to trade issues; it just isn't that significant compared to the PRC's economy. 
    They why do Trump launch the futile trade war in 2018? He is an idiot? 
    Trump did not, and still does not, control China's economy. Whatever economic problems the PRC, has, almost all are due to internal PRC economic policies and decisions, so this is on Xi. 

    So much for the benefits of state run economies.
  • Reply 55 of 58
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    I boldfaced this accusation because it proves that you do not know Chinese culture and you do not understand CCP. Read the following news.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59005937
    It is proof that sex crimes are not tolerated in China unlike US. Trump solicited sex yet he claims he is Christian. And he has zero responsibility for this sex in US. What a contrast!!


    https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/23/china-meritocracy-youth-burned-out/

    The pleas are everywhere. Newspaper editorials urge young people to “strive in the prime of their life.” City governments team up with famous brands to encourage young people to consume more. Young couples visiting neighborhood party committees to obtain permission to get an abortion find themselves subjected to earnest lectures on the delight of childrearing.

    The Chinese Communist Party is using the whole of its propaganda might to push a simple message: The young must throw themselves into work and life with a zest befitting China’s glorious “New Era.”

    The party has reasons to worry. There’s a counternarrative getting in the way of its determination to turn young Chinese into good producers, whether of GDP or children. Young Chinese are curtailing their expectations and ambitions. Many of them are downgrading lifestyle choices around diet, travel, and more. They fill social media with talks of the futility of endeavoring and the hollowness of desire. And they are not ready for marriage and children, and don’t know if they will ever be.

    There have been concerns around young people in China for decades, as in any society. But two factors have made the leadership there more anxious than ever to address their social and economic withdrawal: the COVID-19 pandemic and the country’s upcoming demographic crisis. Although China experienced a robust economic recovery from the pandemic, the stimulus measures it had required further distorted the country’s debt-laden economy. The corrective that Chinese leaders are hoping for—a giant wave of pent-up demand from young Chinese—has yet to materialize.

    I understand the whole "sex crimes" meme you are making is completely false since I live in a State, Nevada, that allows regulated prostitution. Nevadans ignore it for the most part, it isn't a problem, and cuts down on the risks of actual prostitution for both sex workers and clients. 

    Perhaps you should look at what I have posted, as that is a point of fragility for the PRC economy, that is fraught with authoritarian meddling, mostly to ill effect.

    Or not, since it doesn't fit in your PRC centric worldview.
    If China's economy is in problem, that is caused by Trump's economy war toward China. You have succeeded. OK? 
    Uh, no, China's current economic problems aren't Trump's, nor Biden's, fault due to trade issues; it just isn't that significant compared to the PRC's economy. 
    They why do Trump launch the futile trade war in 2018? He is an idiot? 
    Trump did not, and still does not, control China's economy. Whatever economic problems the PRC, has, almost all are due to internal PRC economic policies and decisions, so this is on Xi. 

    So much for the benefits of state run economies.
    You use the word 'control' shows you are brain washed by China haters. They don't know why China's economy grow more than one hundred times in the last forty years. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 56 of 58
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,111member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    I boldfaced this accusation because it proves that you do not know Chinese culture and you do not understand CCP. Read the following news.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59005937
    It is proof that sex crimes are not tolerated in China unlike US. Trump solicited sex yet he claims he is Christian. And he has zero responsibility for this sex in US. What a contrast!!


    https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/23/china-meritocracy-youth-burned-out/

    The pleas are everywhere. Newspaper editorials urge young people to “strive in the prime of their life.” City governments team up with famous brands to encourage young people to consume more. Young couples visiting neighborhood party committees to obtain permission to get an abortion find themselves subjected to earnest lectures on the delight of childrearing.

    The Chinese Communist Party is using the whole of its propaganda might to push a simple message: The young must throw themselves into work and life with a zest befitting China’s glorious “New Era.”

    The party has reasons to worry. There’s a counternarrative getting in the way of its determination to turn young Chinese into good producers, whether of GDP or children. Young Chinese are curtailing their expectations and ambitions. Many of them are downgrading lifestyle choices around diet, travel, and more. They fill social media with talks of the futility of endeavoring and the hollowness of desire. And they are not ready for marriage and children, and don’t know if they will ever be.

    There have been concerns around young people in China for decades, as in any society. But two factors have made the leadership there more anxious than ever to address their social and economic withdrawal: the COVID-19 pandemic and the country’s upcoming demographic crisis. Although China experienced a robust economic recovery from the pandemic, the stimulus measures it had required further distorted the country’s debt-laden economy. The corrective that Chinese leaders are hoping for—a giant wave of pent-up demand from young Chinese—has yet to materialize.

    I understand the whole "sex crimes" meme you are making is completely false since I live in a State, Nevada, that allows regulated prostitution. Nevadans ignore it for the most part, it isn't a problem, and cuts down on the risks of actual prostitution for both sex workers and clients. 

    Perhaps you should look at what I have posted, as that is a point of fragility for the PRC economy, that is fraught with authoritarian meddling, mostly to ill effect.

    Or not, since it doesn't fit in your PRC centric worldview.
    If China's economy is in problem, that is caused by Trump's economy war toward China. You have succeeded. OK? 
    Uh, no, China's current economic problems aren't Trump's, nor Biden's, fault due to trade issues; it just isn't that significant compared to the PRC's economy. 
    They why do Trump launch the futile trade war in 2018? He is an idiot? 
    Trump did not, and still does not, control China's economy. Whatever economic problems the PRC, has, almost all are due to internal PRC economic policies and decisions, so this is on Xi. 

    So much for the benefits of state run economies.
    You use the word 'control' shows you are brain washed by China haters. They don't know why China's economy grow more than one hundred times in the last forty years. 
    So your argument is that Trump does control China's economy?  And that anyone who says different is brainwashed?  Because China's economy is bigger than it was in 1980 (when Trump started controlling it?).

    Got to say, that's a new one on me.
  • Reply 57 of 58
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,111member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    I boldfaced this accusation because it proves that you do not know Chinese culture and you do not understand CCP. Read the following news.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59005937
    It is proof that sex crimes are not tolerated in China unlike US. Trump solicited sex yet he claims he is Christian. And he has zero responsibility for this sex in US. What a contrast!!
    Sure, a celebrity is arrested for soliciting sex so there can’t be any truth to the many reports of sexual violence being perpetuated by soldiers against an ethnic minority. 

    If that’s an acceptable standard of proof over there then maybe I don’t understand China after all. 

    I don’t give a rats ass about the the USA.
    He nailed you on the false claim.  But he's right you don't understand.   Or, more correctly, you understand it only through the colored lens of an idealistic western society that has never existed in reality -- and the smear campaign that Trump built.
    I understand it based on the many, many reports, and the Chinese lack of cooperation.  None of which has anything to do with the guy that you're obsessed with.  waveparticle's pathetic "education" and "Chinese culture" defence actually serves to support those rumours because it betrays a viewpoint that people of other cultures need to be educated in the Chinese way; a very parochial and colonial outlook.  And we all know that colonialism has a (at its very best) chequered history.

    If you really think that "the coloured lens of an idealistic western society" shouldn't be at all concerned with credible evidence of widespread human rights abuses, then I not only disagree, but I have trouble recognising you as a human being.
    tmaymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 58 of 58
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,498member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    Which country do you live? 
    I've never hidden where I live, and you could find it fairly easily by browsing through this forum, but since you won't admit to being a Chinese citizen I'll be damned if I'll just voluntarily submit to your questioning of my nationality.

    You do not comprehend my point on comparing western culture with Chinese culture. 
    I do, I just don't agree with or respect it.

    Is US Western culture? Is government formed within a culture? 
    It's western culture.  Maybe even the dominant western culture, from some perspectives.  But it is not western culture.  There's a whole lot more west than the USA.

    As for whether a government is formed within culture... sure?  So what?
    In US, crime rate is very different between the ethnic groups. This is the fact that cannot be talked about in US. Every crime committed by a minority, the news cannot say it is done by certain minority. The political correctness wants to make US colorless. In this sense, US does not have real free speech. When a fact cannot be reported, there is no free speech. This is why that U Michigan music professor lost his job by playing a movie that prominently showing a certain race. 


    What is your explanation of the higher crime rate then? Don't use the gun. Because robbery rate is also high that California pass a law to decriminalize robbery using the $950 threshold. 
    That's a whole load of stuff about the USA given that I've already said that the USA is only one country in the West, only one of many that have been formed from a Christian tradition, and many others have a much lower violent crime rate.

    The stuff about political correctness and free speech is just unmitigated bullshit.  And rather nonsensical in the context of this conversation.  China does not have free speech, so why are you even bringing up free speech as a point of contention?

    The USA has a higher crime rate probably for many reasons, that I'm in no way qualified to document.  I have a suspicion that the US origin myth of violent revolution for independence and freedom, and then expansion across the continent under a paranoid shadow of European colonialism may have made parts of it intrinsically violent and disrespectful of law and authority, especially on the edges, but I have no real evidence for that.  The inequality and racial division are almost certainly contributory too.  And they are talked about.  Quite a lot.

    How about you say why you think the Christian tradition has anything to do with it.  Compare it with Poland or Spain, both very Catholic countries with crime rates on a level with China.  Or with Denmark or the Netherlands, countries with crime rates lower than China, and largely Christian, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Or how about Japan, a country that has a not dissimilar historical values system from China, but a lower crime rate?

    Maybe realise how reductive your simple, stupid explanations are?  And how transparent they are in their attempts to deflect from the subject at hand.


    Xinjiang has several incidents of terrorism. CCP thought a new policy of educating Uighurs. The idea originates from Chinese culture. CCP is heavily criticized by western nations as genocide. This is conflict between two great cultures. All my arguments are based on this truth. You don't know Chinese culture. You don't have this background. This is why you and many other people always get confused. George has a very open mind. He can understand it. 
    As I have said previously, including in conversations with you, I am part Chinese.  I do have this background.  And this idea doesn't originate from Chinese culture.  It is unfortunately common throughout the world and is just called fascism, or ethnic-nationalism.  The fascism of the Han and the CCP against the other peoples of China and against diverse thought.

    Xinjiang has had incidents of separatist agitation, but the broader Uighur populations are not the culprits.  What is being done is a fascist crackdown on a different culture, that you excuse because "Chinese" culture (read: Han CCP) is the only one that counts.  Never mind Uighur culture of course, that doesn't deserve any consideration, because it's not "real" Chinese according to Beiijing. 

    "Education" is an extremely generous description of what has been reported to be happening in Xinjiang. At the very least it doesn't address the widespread surveillance and restrictions on the entire region that have been in place for years, and at its worst is a blatant smokescreen for the incarceration, physical, emotional and sexual torture being practiced, with either the direct or tacit approval of the authorities.
    I boldfaced this accusation because it proves that you do not know Chinese culture and you do not understand CCP. Read the following news.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59005937
    It is proof that sex crimes are not tolerated in China unlike US. Trump solicited sex yet he claims he is Christian. And he has zero responsibility for this sex in US. What a contrast!!


    https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/23/china-meritocracy-youth-burned-out/

    The pleas are everywhere. Newspaper editorials urge young people to “strive in the prime of their life.” City governments team up with famous brands to encourage young people to consume more. Young couples visiting neighborhood party committees to obtain permission to get an abortion find themselves subjected to earnest lectures on the delight of childrearing.

    The Chinese Communist Party is using the whole of its propaganda might to push a simple message: The young must throw themselves into work and life with a zest befitting China’s glorious “New Era.”

    The party has reasons to worry. There’s a counternarrative getting in the way of its determination to turn young Chinese into good producers, whether of GDP or children. Young Chinese are curtailing their expectations and ambitions. Many of them are downgrading lifestyle choices around diet, travel, and more. They fill social media with talks of the futility of endeavoring and the hollowness of desire. And they are not ready for marriage and children, and don’t know if they will ever be.

    There have been concerns around young people in China for decades, as in any society. But two factors have made the leadership there more anxious than ever to address their social and economic withdrawal: the COVID-19 pandemic and the country’s upcoming demographic crisis. Although China experienced a robust economic recovery from the pandemic, the stimulus measures it had required further distorted the country’s debt-laden economy. The corrective that Chinese leaders are hoping for—a giant wave of pent-up demand from young Chinese—has yet to materialize.

    I understand the whole "sex crimes" meme you are making is completely false since I live in a State, Nevada, that allows regulated prostitution. Nevadans ignore it for the most part, it isn't a problem, and cuts down on the risks of actual prostitution for both sex workers and clients. 

    Perhaps you should look at what I have posted, as that is a point of fragility for the PRC economy, that is fraught with authoritarian meddling, mostly to ill effect.

    Or not, since it doesn't fit in your PRC centric worldview.
    If China's economy is in problem, that is caused by Trump's economy war toward China. You have succeeded. OK? 
    Uh, no, China's current economic problems aren't Trump's, nor Biden's, fault due to trade issues; it just isn't that significant compared to the PRC's economy. 
    They why do Trump launch the futile trade war in 2018? He is an idiot? 
    Trump did not, and still does not, control China's economy. Whatever economic problems the PRC, has, almost all are due to internal PRC economic policies and decisions, so this is on Xi. 

    So much for the benefits of state run economies.
    You use the word 'control' shows you are brain washed by China haters. They don't know why China's economy grow more than one hundred times in the last forty years. 
    Actually, I do know why it had such fast growth.

    The downside is, the growth is slowing, and the demographics of a young population that drove that growth is inverted, with a smaller working population supporting a larger number of seniors. Simple economics, and it the case of the PRC, likely to halve the population by 2060.
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