Compared: M1 Max 16-inch MacBook Pro versus Mac Pro

24

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 67
    nerudaneruda Posts: 437member
    I've had the M1 Max MacBook for about a week.  It's like going from DOS to Windows 95, or from Windows 98 to OS X, or from my old dumb phone to an iPhone....etc.  My old intel MacBook seems that outdated in comparison. Speed is incredible and NO fan noise/heat. Insane.
    rundhvidkurai_kagebadmonkwatto_cobraChris_Pelham
  • Reply 22 of 67
    MplsP said:
    We're talking about a laptop that is not only holding its own but often beating a high end Mac Pro. And it's doing this on 10% of the power.

    THIS.

    I took notes on all the Apple haters who were slagging off the M1 when it came out... especially the ones who didn't care how efficient it is because "I'm not worried about my electric bill"... how clueless does it get! If you don't understand or refuse to acknowledge the performance issues that come with excess heat generation and as well the engineering and additional weight and space required to dissipate some part of it... maybe an eMachine is more your speed, son.

    The skeptics will be scarce to find when the next iterations of AS drop... I'm sure they'll resort to banging on about the "Apple tax", never mind the obvious performance differences we'll surely see over Intel and AMD.
    edited November 2021 williamlondonkillroyFileMakerFellerrundhvidchiakurai_kagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 67
    Appleish said:
    I know that there are a lot of use cases out there for some to need the new Intel Mac Pro, but knowing the M1 MBPs were coming, how many could have just waited.

    All those Mac Pros out there can't be upgraded to Apple Silicon. What a waste. Flame away...
    It's cute that you think your opinion is worthy of flaming.

    An edit house, for instance, is not going to be cutting shows on a 16"MacBook Pro even with max specs, for one the clients wouldn't stand for it. That's what you were suggesting these users should have done, yes?

    And any successful edit house does enough business that the cost of the workstation is amortized fairly quickly. It's part of the business plan that they get upgraded every X years (3 to 5 i would say, depending on the type of work and how busy they are).

    No point whatsoever to waiting for the latest and greatest, they still need to pump out the work... buying the 2019 Intel MP was absolutely not a waste of anything.

    I'm just curious how Mac-based edit shops managed during the very long wait between the 2013 trashcan MP and the 2019 'back to the future' cheesegrater+ MP. Quite a few folks rightfully wondered if Apple had abandoned this small but influential niche of users.
    edited November 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 67
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,706member
    Not only 10% of the power, but on battery!
    williamlondonchiakurai_kagemattinozwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 67
    thttht Posts: 4,628member
    sdw2001 said:
    tht said:
    lkrupp said:
    tht said:
    Let us all hope that Apple will sell ARM motherboards that will fit into the 2019 Mac Pro, along with driver support for at least the 1st party  dGPU modules, HDD modules, Afterburner modules, etc. They owill hopefully sell 1st party 64 and 128 GPU core MPX modules too, for all the customers who just need more GPU compute.

    If the rumored half sized Apple Silicon Mac Pro starts at $2000, a full sized Mac Pro (2019 model) starts at $5000, and a Mac mini starts at $700, Apple will have a full headless desktop lineup spanning all the price tiers since 2006, just before the PPC to Intel transition. Even more so than back then even. That "half size Mac Pro" has to hit $2000 though.
    Hope away. Not gonna happen. Sell Apple Silicon mother boards that the user can swap out in the current Intel Mac Pro? Hilarious. Ridiculous.
    You can join along lkrupp, and hope with us! We need all the help we can get. 

    The 2019 Mac Pro is as modular a design as there is. As Lego as it can get. There aren’t any wires in it save for aux power for high Watt 3rd part dGPUs or PCIe cards. (Well, there is the speaker too). Owners don’t need any tools to take it apart, with everything accessible by hand with easy access everywhere. A machine to last for a decade or more. 

    So if there is ever machine where Apple sells a motherboard kit, the 2019 Mac Pro is it. 

    Not. Going. To. Happen. Apple Silicon is a totally different architecture.  It's literally a different way of building a computer.  It doesn't matter that the 2019 MP is Lego-like.  They would have to ensure that the board was compatible with everything from Afterburner cards to discreet RAM to GPUs.  While some of these may be options on a redesigned MP with Apple Silicon, they sure as hell aren't going to cannibalize new MP sales by offering a board that makes purchasing a new one unnecessary.  It would also be unprecedented for Apple.  Did they do anything of the kind when they went from G5 to Intel?  Of course not.  We're talking about an even greater transition here.  
    Apple really shouldn't worry about cannibalization. The boards aren't going to be cheap, and they shouldn't worry about cannibalizing sales of the half sized Apple Silicon Mac Pro at all as maybe half to three quarters if the Mac Pro userbase wouldn't upgrade to the rumored half sized Apple Silicon Mac Pro. Most of them want the 2019 Mac Pro sized machine for reasons afforded by a big box. They like the internal storage capacity. They like the 8 PCIe slots. They like the memory capacity. They like being able to do 1000 Watts worth of GPU compute. If Apple GPUs are 3x more power efficient, it only means they can pack 3x more GPU perf in the box. They like that it comes in a rack mount case. Heck, Apple had the front of 80 "rack mount Mac Pros" as wall decorations in their MBP intro videos in the "secret Apple Silicon studio" where Srouji talks. So, they like it too! They may pick up more "prosumer" sales with the half sized Mac Pro, but if it doesn't have the capacity of the Mac Pro, I don't think those people will switch.

    So, it really is necessary to have both classes of headless desktop: a workstation and prosumer oriented mid-sized desktop. They could have even more form factors too, but having an actual 3 tiers of headless desktop is a nice big step. They really are monied enough to give buyers choices here. Even in the laptop space they can have more choices.
    rundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 67
    tht said:
    Let us all hope that Apple will sell ARM motherboards that will fit into the 2019 Mac Pro, along with driver support for at least the 1st party  dGPU modules, HDD modules, Afterburner modules, etc. They will hopefully sell 1st party 64 and 128 GPU core MPX modules too, for all the customers who just need more GPU compute.

    If the rumored half sized Apple Silicon Mac Pro starts at $2000, a full sized Mac Pro (2019 model) starts at $5000, and a Mac mini starts at $700, Apple will have a full headless desktop lineup spanning all the price tiers since 2006, just before the PPC to Intel transition. Even more so than back then even. That "half size Mac Pro" has to hit $2000 though.
    Sure. It’ll just come with a case that I guess you could remove the logic board from and somehow shoehorn into that old Mac Pro case. /s


    killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 67
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    The real issue of M1 Max is: NO ECC RAM!!
    And unfortunately almost nobody gets why that’s important…
    williamlondonanonconformist12Strangers
  • Reply 28 of 67
    sbdudesbdude Posts: 173member
    emig647 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    tht said:
    lkrupp said:
    tht said:
    Let us all hope that Apple will sell ARM motherboards that will fit into the 2019 Mac Pro, along with driver support for at least the 1st party  dGPU modules, HDD modules, Afterburner modules, etc. They will hopefully sell 1st party 64 and 128 GPU core MPX modules too, for all the customers who just need more GPU compute.

    If the rumored half sized Apple Silicon Mac Pro starts at $2000, a full sized Mac Pro (2019 model) starts at $5000, and a Mac mini starts at $700, Apple will have a full headless desktop lineup spanning all the price tiers since 2006, just before the PPC to Intel transition. Even more so than back then even. That "half size Mac Pro" has to hit $2000 though.
    Hope away. Not gonna happen. Sell Apple Silicon mother boards that the user can swap out in the current Intel Mac Pro? Hilarious. Ridiculous.
    You can join along lkrupp, and hope with us! We need all the help we can get. 

    The 2019 Mac Pro is as modular a design as there is. As Lego as it can get. There aren’t any wires in it save for aux power for high Watt 3rd part dGPUs or PCIe cards. (Well, there is the speaker too). Owners don’t need any tools to take it apart, with everything accessible by hand with easy access everywhere. A machine to last for a decade or more. 

    So if there is ever machine where Apple sells a motherboard kit, the 2019 Mac Pro is it. 

    Not. Going. To. Happen. Apple Silicon is a totally different architecture.  It's literally a different way of building a computer.  It doesn't matter that the 2019 MP is Lego-like.  They would have to ensure that the board was compatible with everything from Afterburner cards to discreet RAM to GPUs.  While some of these may be options on a redesigned MP with Apple Silicon, they sure as hell aren't going to cannibalize new MP sales by offering a board that makes purchasing a new one unnecessary.  It would also be unprecedented for Apple.  Did they do anything of the kind when they went from G5 to Intel?  Of course not.  We're talking about an even greater transition here.  
    I agree it isnt going to happen. But it is precedented: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Processor_Upgrade_Card
    1994 . . . That's ancient history. Leave it to Sculley and/or Spindler to come up with something of the like.
    edited November 2021 sdw2001watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 67
    XedXed Posts: 1,516member
    rcfa said:
    The real issue of M1 Max is: NO ECC RAM!!
    And unfortunately almost nobody gets why that’s important…
    Mac notebooks have never come with factory installed ECC RAM. When the Mac Pros come out without ECC RAM then the issue will be real.
    williamlondontenthousandthingswatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 67
    robabarobaba Posts: 226member
    Why no upgrade kit for Intel MP?  Chip Yields.  Apples only going to make so many of these great big bastards, and they will want to maximize the revenue they generate.  Even though TMSC have fantastic yield from this node, the surface area of the M1Ultimate (or whatever) means plenty of binning just to get a decent number of parts.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 67
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,947member
    rcfa said:
    The real issue of M1 Max is: NO ECC RAM!!
    And unfortunately almost nobody gets why that’s important…
    How do you know it can't? I mean most chips that do also ship rebranded like they can't. 
    It's such a wonderful time as we don't know the full shape of what is to come. 

    longfang said:
    tht said:
    Let us all hope that Apple will sell ARM motherboards that will fit into the 2019 Mac Pro, along with driver support for at least the 1st party  dGPU modules, HDD modules, Afterburner modules, etc. They will hopefully sell 1st party 64 and 128 GPU core MPX modules too, for all the customers who just need more GPU compute.

    If the rumored half sized Apple Silicon Mac Pro starts at $2000, a full sized Mac Pro (2019 model) starts at $5000, and a Mac mini starts at $700, Apple will have a full headless desktop lineup spanning all the price tiers since 2006, just before the PPC to Intel transition. Even more so than back then even. That "half size Mac Pro" has to hit $2000 though.
    Sure. It’ll just come with a case that I guess you could remove the logic board from and somehow shoehorn into that old Mac Pro case. /s


    It seems like the Mac Pro was designed that even if it stayed Intel that the mainboard could be a part swap as better PCIe standards come into play. With that in mind it seems to me like Apple would set it up as a combined sale of a bunch of parts each with a margin. That way Apple gets a margin on sales regardless of how complete a system you buy now or in the future. The casing becomes a lockin dongle to keep you in the fold. 

    Add a half-height case with the back chamber all Apple M'ness and front side power supply and MPX modules and not only do they expand the market they'd make a market for secondhand MPX modules. 

    To me, it still seems like MacPro won't be until M2 Max but again time will tell. They could offer a double if they can support the cards in the front of the box and it would still be a fair upgrade on the current.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 67
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,913member
    sbdude said:
    emig647 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    tht said:
    lkrupp said:
    tht said:
    Let us all hope that Apple will sell ARM motherboards that will fit into the 2019 Mac Pro, along with driver support for at least the 1st party  dGPU modules, HDD modules, Afterburner modules, etc. They will hopefully sell 1st party 64 and 128 GPU core MPX modules too, for all the customers who just need more GPU compute.

    If the rumored half sized Apple Silicon Mac Pro starts at $2000, a full sized Mac Pro (2019 model) starts at $5000, and a Mac mini starts at $700, Apple will have a full headless desktop lineup spanning all the price tiers since 2006, just before the PPC to Intel transition. Even more so than back then even. That "half size Mac Pro" has to hit $2000 though.
    Hope away. Not gonna happen. Sell Apple Silicon mother boards that the user can swap out in the current Intel Mac Pro? Hilarious. Ridiculous.
    You can join along lkrupp, and hope with us! We need all the help we can get. 

    The 2019 Mac Pro is as modular a design as there is. As Lego as it can get. There aren’t any wires in it save for aux power for high Watt 3rd part dGPUs or PCIe cards. (Well, there is the speaker too). Owners don’t need any tools to take it apart, with everything accessible by hand with easy access everywhere. A machine to last for a decade or more. 

    So if there is ever machine where Apple sells a motherboard kit, the 2019 Mac Pro is it. 

    Not. Going. To. Happen. Apple Silicon is a totally different architecture.  It's literally a different way of building a computer.  It doesn't matter that the 2019 MP is Lego-like.  They would have to ensure that the board was compatible with everything from Afterburner cards to discreet RAM to GPUs.  While some of these may be options on a redesigned MP with Apple Silicon, they sure as hell aren't going to cannibalize new MP sales by offering a board that makes purchasing a new one unnecessary.  It would also be unprecedented for Apple.  Did they do anything of the kind when they went from G5 to Intel?  Of course not.  We're talking about an even greater transition here.  
    I agree it isnt going to happen. But it is precedented: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Processor_Upgrade_Card
    1994 . . . That's ancient history. Leave it to Sculley and/or Spindler to come up with something of the like.
    Exactly. It’s literally a quarter of a century ago.  Apple hasn’t done business like that in 27 years.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 67
    lkrupp said:
    tht said:
    Let us all hope that Apple will sell ARM motherboards that will fit into the 2019 Mac Pro, along with driver support for at least the 1st party  dGPU modules, HDD modules, Afterburner modules, etc. They will hopefully sell 1st party 64 and 128 GPU core MPX modules too, for all the customers who just need more GPU compute.

    If the rumored half sized Apple Silicon Mac Pro starts at $2000, a full sized Mac Pro (2019 model) starts at $5000, and a Mac mini starts at $700, Apple will have a full headless desktop lineup spanning all the price tiers since 2006, just before the PPC to Intel transition. Even more so than back then even. That "half size Mac Pro" has to hit $2000 though.
    Hope away. Not gonna happen. Sell Apple Silicon mother boards that the user can swap out in the current Intel Mac Pro? Hilarious. Ridiculous.
    Yeah!
    Because development of the current Intel-based Mac Pro and Apple Silicon took place simultaneously…
    And, erh…, none of ’s executives have reflected on how to prioritize and manage company resources…, sure!
    Inside , the question: “what are we going to do with all the Mac Pro tooling and our dedicated assembly facility in Texas, following the transition to AS?”, just doesn’t exist!

    —the software department at  obviously didn’t get your insightful memo, because they managed to execute a near faultless transition to AS. Their buddies over at the External Monitor building did something similar: the XDR display is compatible with both Intel-based and AS-based hardware—most unexpected, right?!

    All this might seem complicated and unnecessary. We call it: Thinking, a subset of which is termed: Long-term planning. If you don’t like it, please return to FOX News.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 67
    No analysis of these bleeding edge personal computers is complete without some hard numbers regarding holes.

    I estimate about 150 holes - each slightly larger than a dime - drilled into the front face of the Mac Pro. These holes are deceiving, though. The holes don’t penetrate all the way through the face; the grill is instead met by a slightly lower number of holes drilled into the back. Let’s split the difference and say that the Mac Pro has about 130 high performance holes.

    The MacBook Pro takes a radically different posture of an estimated 3000 holes per side for a rough total of six to seven thousand low performance holes. (That’s just an eyeball estimate, I’m looking forward to actual geekbench numbers.) 

    So the question for the eventual Apple Silicon desktop pro is, are we all in on tiny holes, or does the future hold a hybrid of fewer high performance holes mated with an array of low performance holes? Will the M2 MacBook Pro perhaps have one or two high performance holes, and will that necessitate an expansion of the notch? Only time and Ming Chi Kuo will tell.
    rundhvidmattinozwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 67
    Eric_WVGG said:
    No analysis of these bleeding edge personal computers is complete without some hard numbers regarding holes.

    I estimate about 150 holes - each slightly larger than a dime - drilled into the front face of the Mac Pro. These holes are deceiving, though. The holes don’t penetrate all the way through the face; the grill is instead met by a slightly lower number of holes drilled into the back. Let’s split the difference and say that the Mac Pro has about 130 high performance holes.

    The MacBook Pro takes a radically different posture of an estimated 3000 holes per side for a rough total of six to seven thousand low performance holes. (That’s just an eyeball estimate, I’m looking forward to actual geekbench numbers.) 

    So the question for the eventual Apple Silicon desktop pro is, are we all in on tiny holes, or does the future hold a hybrid of fewer high performance holes mated with an array of low performance holes? Will the M2 MacBook Pro perhaps have one or two high performance holes, and will that necessitate an expansion of the notch? Only time and Ming Chi Kuo will tell.
    Exactly 🙃

    —the future is exciting and very promising (if you dare to be optimistic) 🖖🏼
    And who is to say the Notch is permanent—it might be engulfed by a low yield, nominal hole? 
    Eric_WVGGwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 67
    Appleish said:
    I know that there are a lot of use cases out there for some to need the new Intel Mac Pro, but knowing the M1 MBPs were coming, how many could have just waited.

    All those Mac Pros out there can't be upgraded to Apple Silicon. What a waste. Flame away...
    The pro and pro max chip upgrades were far beyond what was predicted.  The market for the Mac Pro is a specialized industry, and often time sensitive need.  It's not a bad thing that these aren't dropped like hotcakes, because we do want Apple to keep pushing the envelope in the highest level of media creation tools.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 67
    I imagine the M series mac pro is going to be the last to arrive, and not for at least another year - more likely 2.  But, what is going to make me open my wallet is the next series of large iMac.  Hopefully not just in an inflated price "iMac Pro", but even the current "pro" chip offerings with a 30" high standard monitor.  I need a powerful stay in place system connected to bulk storage with backups, connected to server and RAID 24/7.  My laptop needs are much less demanding, and I wouldn't want to risk taking the core of my media business out with me.   Maybe the iMac Pro will be a bridge to the next generation of chip, and I'm sure it would satisfy the needs of a huge proportion of creative high end media producers and developers.   I'll have to scrape I'm sure, but my (loaded) iMac late 2015 just barely qualified for Monterey. Surprisingly, it made an immediate noticeable improvement in performance - probably cleaning up some accumulated background issues I'd picked up. 

    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 67
    emig647 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    Not. Going. To. Happen. Apple Silicon is a totally different architecture.  It's literally a different way of building a computer.  It doesn't matter that the 2019 MP is Lego-like.  They would have to ensure that the board was compatible with everything from Afterburner cards to discreet RAM to GPUs.  While some of these may be options on a redesigned MP with Apple Silicon, they sure as hell aren't going to cannibalize new MP sales by offering a board that makes purchasing a new one unnecessary.  It would also be unprecedented for Apple.  Did they do anything of the kind when they went from G5 to Intel?  Of course not.  We're talking about an even greater transition here.  
    I agree it isnt going to happen. But it is precedented: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Processor_Upgrade_Card
    M1 Max MPX or Afterburning module?  Limited to PCIe bandwidth, though multiple MPX cards could transfer data between themselves at up to 84 GB/s.  That just emphasizes why external modules of any kind will be so much slower than anything Apple puts on die. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 67
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,008member
    Appleish said:
    I know that there are a lot of use cases out there for some to need the new Intel Mac Pro, but knowing the M1 MBPs were coming, how many could have just waited.

    All those Mac Pros out there can't be upgraded to Apple Silicon. What a waste. Flame away...
    Companies that purchased multiple MP's don't care.  They're tools.  They're bought and depreciated.  When they no longer do the job and have been fully depreciated, they buy new ones.  Rinse and repeat.  Theses MP's are used to generate revenue for the company.  I doubt they think "damn... should have waiting longer'.

    The independent, solo person "might" think that way, but those folks still consider them tools and don't linger on technology advancing and making their fancy, expensive MP's look outdated.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 67
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,008member
    A fantasy for me would be an ASI Mac Pro, with the ability to insert a PCIe (or external Thunderbolt) x86 "card" for those that want x86 compatibility on some level.

    Just like external GPU boxes, if someone could figure out get full, native x86 processing on an ASI Mac, I would seriously consider "retiring" my 2020 iMac, but as I need x86 to run Windows I'm joined at the hip with Intel for the long, foreseeable future.
    watto_cobra
Sign In or Register to comment.