The new MacBook Pro: Why did Apple backtrack on everything?

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 173
    I want the Touch Bar. Love it. 
    JWSC9secondkox2watto_cobrafirelockAlex_V
  • Reply 22 of 173
    Apples backtrack has nothing to do with jony. Though he’d have likely found a way to make the devices look slimmer than the new chunksters. But he was a guy that understood that form follows function snd that the two are not exclusive. 

    There are some backward steps taken with the new aesthetics. Not the greatest. But still looks good enough. 

    That said, I believe that Apple realizes that they need thermal headroom with their new chips and that they will need even more over the years. 

    Pc laptop makers put out ridiculously hot and power hungry devices and then advertise them compared with Apple. Of course the performance Will beat Apple in that way. So even though they lose the thermal and efficiency war? They can say “ well ours wins where it matters.” And in some cases they were right. 

    What Apple has done is given their laptops and enclosure with room for performance increase. Already it’s beneficial to the 16 m1 max in pro mode. And when duo snd quad versions of max chips make their way in, they won’t have to redesign every year. And they can spank the nuclear reactor laptops in every category along the way. 

    The port situation is apples leadership mistake. They went all in on the laptop with thunderbolt and backed out with everything else. If they’d committed, we wouldn’t need anything else. But they didn’t and created their own mess. Now they are cleaning it up. It’s really the only option until they decide to go all in the right way. 

    The Touch Bar was and is a brilliant idea. The only problem is that it was forgotten about. Couple that with it’s reputation being mixed together with some bad butterfly keyboards and it was doomed. Not the best decision. But hey. It’s done. 

    Some better decisions could have been made with the design, but Ive’s gone now snd we have what we have. 

    A better decision could have been made with ports across the entire Mac lineup years ago. But it wasn’t. So we have what we have. 

    The novel Touch Bar was never improved or supported, so it was a neglected animal left to die. And so it has. Sad but true. 

    So here we are. At the state things were, these decisions had to be made. Apple is a company known for its focus snd wisdom. When they weren’t uniformly applied in a rare long moment, things suffered. This is making the best of it. 

    Still the best notebooks you can buy. And great decisions with what they had to work with. 

    edited November 2021 JWSCwatto_cobraPShimiAlex_Vdocno42
  • Reply 23 of 173
    HrebHreb Posts: 19member
    I have been using the 2019 MBP 16" for the past 6 months and it is by far the ugliest laptop I have ever owned.  Not the MBP itself necessarily, which is already way too heavy on its own, but the chunky Thunderbolt dock from Kensington, which besides being ugly was some $180.  And without the dock the laptop is worthless.  The M1 MBP is a step in the right direction, at least.

    At these price points, consumers have a lot of choices.  If I needed a netbook with no extendability, I could have saved a lot of money and got a Chromebook.  That's just not the segment the macbook pro competes in.
    williamlondondocno42
  • Reply 24 of 173
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,064member
    I was shocked to see the new MacBook Pro. It really looks fat. Heavy. 
    Some of that extra volume is for internal airflow.  The larger the airflow volume the less the fans have to work, saving battery life.
    9secondkox2watto_cobraAlex_V
  • Reply 25 of 173
    seanjseanj Posts: 268member
    Sticking old versions of HDMI and SD reader utterly pointless. You’ll be able to get Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI/SD adapters that will offer higher performance than these built in ones, for those that one these.
    Myself, like the vast majority of people will never user these ports. 
    Why would I need an SD card reader? Like most People I take photos on my phone.
    As for HDMI, sorry I don’t use anything with copyright restrictions. I’d use DP, except one the ports I could have used has been sacrificed for the HDMI/SD combo.
    Stupid move, done to please the commentariate rather than real world users.
    9secondkox2chiaPShimi
  • Reply 26 of 173
    danoxdanox Posts: 722member
    seanj said:
    Sticking old versions of HDMI and SD reader utterly pointless. You’ll be able to get Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI/SD adapters that will offer higher performance than these built in ones, for those that one these.
    Myself, like the vast majority of people will never user these ports. 
    Why would I need an SD card reader? Like most People I take photos on my phone.
    As for HDMI, sorry I don’t use anything with copyright restrictions. I’d use DP, except one the ports I could have used has been sacrificed for the HDMI/SD combo.
    Stupid move, done to please the commentariate rather than real world users.
     :'(   :'(
    williamlondon9secondkox2
  • Reply 27 of 173
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,250member
    Apples backtrack has nothing to do with jony. Though he’d have likely found a way to make the devices look slimmer than the new chunksters. But he was a guy that understood that form follows function snd that the two are not exclusive. 

    There are some backward steps taken with the new aesthetics. Not the greatest. But still looks good enough. 

    That said, I believe that Apple realizes that they need thermal headroom with their new chips and that they will need even more over the years. 

    Pc laptop makers put out ridiculously hot and power hungry devices and then advertise them compared with Apple. Of course the performance Will beat Apple in that way. So even though they lose the thermal and efficiency war? They can say “ well ours wins where it matters.” And in some cases they were right. 

    What Apple has done is given their laptops and enclosure with room for performance increase. Already it’s beneficial to the 16 m1 max in pro mode. And when duo snd quad versions of max chips make their way in, they won’t have to redesign every year. And they can spank the nuclear reactor laptops in every category along the way. 

    The port situation is apples leadership mistake. They went all in on the laptop with thunderbolt and backed out with everything else. If they’d committed, we wouldn’t need anything else. But they didn’t and created their own mess. Now they are cleaning it up. It’s really the only option until they decide to go all in the right way. 

    The Touch Bar was and is a brilliant idea. The only problem is that it was forgotten about. Couple that with it’s reputation being mixed together with some bad butterfly keyboards and it was doomed. Not the best decision. But hey. It’s done. 

    Some better decisions could have been made with the design, but Ive’s gone now snd we have what we have. 

    A better decision could have been made with ports across the entire Mac lineup years ago. But it wasn’t. So we have what we have. 

    The novel Touch Bar was never improved or supported, so it was a neglected animal left to die. And so it has. Sad but true. 

    So here we are. At the state things were, these decisions had to be made. Apple is a company known for its focus snd wisdom. When they weren’t uniformly applied in a rare long moment, things suffered. This is making the best of it. 

    Still the best notebooks you can buy. And great decisions with what they had to work with. 

    If we're in 2016, we'd not expect Intel delay its 10nm for the next five years that complete missed out for this generation.

    The other thing boils down how Apple build their products: it starts from a concept then turns to a reality, which means the actual engineering is at the very last stage.  Every other OEM most likely goes the other way, to build a case around that chip.

    That explains why there are some choices may seems bizarre:  Apple never changed their thermal or case design for their 15" through out the years where as OEM can easily drop every single part when they need to.

    OEM may seem flexible though that also means they'll have to fit whatever Intel/AMD throws at them.  If they have a rough year, it will have a significant impact on every products.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 173
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,494member
    AniMill said:
    I don’t get the whole DongleLife rebellion.
    you never cared until you needed one but didn't have it. 

    I finally had a chance to play with a 16" MBP in an Apple store - it's a beautiful machine. The keyboard far better than my 2017 MBP - quieter, more solid, better feel. The screen is gorgeous. The notch is a non-issue. the only thing I was surprised by is the strength of the MagSafe connector - it actually snaps in with far more strength than the USB C cables, to the point that it's almost difficult to remove. It's far more likely to come out with an angular force, though and it's also far easier to connect, just like the MagSafe connectors from years past. I couldn't really evaluate performance, but it didn't burn my fingers to touch the case, unlike my Intel MBP. now I just need to save my pennies...
    williamlondonelijahgwatto_cobraAlex_Vdocno42
  • Reply 29 of 173
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,857member
    Because post-Jobs/Ive Apple has transitioned from skating to where the puck is going to be to skating to where the puck was a few years ago. If the vocal minority want "faster horses" - new Apple delivers! They'd rather pursue marketshare than product excellence, sacrificing the portability of a portable computer to add a load of old, redundant ports.
    9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 173
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,857member
    tundraboy said:
    Yeah, as great as a designer as he is, Jony started to sacrifice too much utility and durability at the altar of form.  (Much like Frank Lloyd Wright's buildings and houses looked great and innovative but were prone to structural and water damage.)  Jony's departure was timely.  He was probably getting bored too as there is only so much designing one can do on thin rectangular bricks.
    He was probably getting increasingly frustrated with the silicon team's inaction when Intel constantly screwed up. They could have transitioned to Apple Silicon with the A12X in 2018 (roadmapped a year or two before). Maybe they held back to ensure his designer would fail & get him out.

    Expect future Macs to be racehorses designed by a committee.
    9secondkox2PShimi
  • Reply 31 of 173
    seanj said:
    Sticking old versions of HDMI and SD reader utterly pointless. You’ll be able to get Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI/SD adapters that will offer higher performance than these built in ones, for those that one these.
    Myself, like the vast majority of people will never user these ports. 
    Why would I need an SD card reader? Like most People I take photos on my phone.
    As for HDMI, sorry I don’t use anything with copyright restrictions. I’d use DP, except one the ports I could have used has been sacrificed for the HDMI/SD combo.
    Stupid move, done to please the commentariate rather than real world users.
    Because "commentariate" does drive people's perception, unfortunately.  Keep doing it and your'll be more hated.

    That said, the biggest issue is the chip itself, then keyboard QC.  You got the biggest bandwidth from these Thunderbolt ports, that's a huge gain.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 173
    Hreb said:
    I have been using the 2019 MBP 16" for the past 6 months and it is by far the ugliest laptop I have ever owned.  Not the MBP itself necessarily, which is already way too heavy on its own, but the chunky Thunderbolt dock from Kensington, which besides being ugly was some $180.  And without the dock the laptop is worthless.  The M1 MBP is a step in the right direction, at least.

    At these price points, consumers have a lot of choices.  If I needed a netbook with no extendability, I could have saved a lot of money and got a Chromebook.  That's just not the segment the macbook pro competes in.
    You're not getting your Type-A back, nor the older Pros have that many ports, just saying.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 173
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,857member
    Maurizio said:
    While i agree on the fact that new design is more pro and less design oriented, i would like to stress the fact that the discussion about ports is fake and the position that the 2016 mac book pro had less ports is a myth. I had a Mac Book Pro 2011; had it more ports ? Well, actually not. It just had two usb ports. Yes, it had an Ethernet port, of absolutely no use unless you had a cabled network. I hadn’t. Yes, it had a Firewire port; it was legacy already, never used it. It had a displayport connection, very useful to people using an external screen. Not me. Well, but at least you could connect it with a single cable to a dock, so you could charge it, connect to studio HD and audio interface ? No way. While some Windows computer had some expensive docking option, no Mac had one. Si, essentially, just two usb port. Yes, i used the display port a couple of times, in three years. So yes, the Mac Book Pro 2019 that i owns today have 4 physical ports, but being them multipurpose, i can use them in a lot of different situations. The new Mac Pro, if you are on batteries (or use a Usb C or Thunderbolt screen) have exactly one port less of my 2019 Mac Book Pro. Happily, it has three Thunderbolt controllers, so more bandwidth for more docks and dongles. Essentially, stop believing the trolls that online press helped diffuse, and look ti real life use cases. Some gains, a lot not.
    Well said. The vocal few are acting like a bunch of pouting, foot-stomping 5-year olds. The idea of plugging in more than one cable at once is the kind of nonsense we were hearing when iPads were launched with one connector & other tablets has loads - people hadn't considered their actual use (an octopus in your hand!)  The idea of plugging/unplugging 2-3 cables into your laptop each time you move it is the same kind of ill-considered dumbness. Even Windows PCs have a single TB port instead of a proprietary dock connector these days. But new, sycophantic Apple's regressing as the competition progresses.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 173
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,764member
    rob53 said:
    I have the original M1 MBA with two USB4 ports and a headphone jack. This is perfect for 70% of laptop users (my gut feeling). My sister-in-law got an M1 iMac to replace her really old one. She doesn’t require any extra ports just a USB port to run her embroidery machine. I’d say 90% of the people visiting AI don’t fit this use case which is why too many of you are b*** and moaning. I don’t really need the power of the latest MBPs but managing large Mac systems is what I used to do so it’s tough to not want the highest powered Mac. 

    As for going backwards, that’s a matter of opinion. Because hit-rod Intel is no longer under the hood, Apple can bring back all kinds of ports because there’s room again. Intel Mac laptops needed every cubic centimeter for batteries and fans not to mention large RAM sticks and HDD/SSDs. Apple is now free to expand features, including ports, because of everything they got rid of. 

    Come on AI readers, the glass is overflowing not half empty!
    You don't know Apple is trying to attract Windows users and prevent Mac users from switching. I have seen Windows user use HDMI port to connect to HDTV. Without HDMI, these people will never consider using a Mac. 
    Had to read your reply couple times to understand your comment has nothing to do with what I said about Mac users. I understand you’re worried about Windows users changing to Macs not having a built-in way to watch TV. There is an adaptor for this but built-in is nicer. I hope you understand the new MBPs aren’t really for HDTV viewers. The HDMI port is for viewing app output not for watching YouTube videos. I know there are PC users doing gaming so maybe they want (only) HDTV resolution displays but why buy a Mac for specialized gaming (only) use. The HDMI port isn’t the primary display port, the TB ports are giving 8K(?) resolution. Like I said above the new MBPs are serious (expensive) laptops meant for people who need (want) powerful computers to do their work. These are tools not web browsing and email-only tablets. Of course anyone can buy one. As for Windows users wanting to move to Macs, they would need to have more reasons to move than an HDMI port. 
    IreneWwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 173
    rob53 said:
    rob53 said:
    I have the original M1 MBA with two USB4 ports and a headphone jack. This is perfect for 70% of laptop users (my gut feeling). My sister-in-law got an M1 iMac to replace her really old one. She doesn’t require any extra ports just a USB port to run her embroidery machine. I’d say 90% of the people visiting AI don’t fit this use case which is why too many of you are b*** and moaning. I don’t really need the power of the latest MBPs but managing large Mac systems is what I used to do so it’s tough to not want the highest powered Mac. 

    As for going backwards, that’s a matter of opinion. Because hit-rod Intel is no longer under the hood, Apple can bring back all kinds of ports because there’s room again. Intel Mac laptops needed every cubic centimeter for batteries and fans not to mention large RAM sticks and HDD/SSDs. Apple is now free to expand features, including ports, because of everything they got rid of. 

    Come on AI readers, the glass is overflowing not half empty!
    You don't know Apple is trying to attract Windows users and prevent Mac users from switching. I have seen Windows user use HDMI port to connect to HDTV. Without HDMI, these people will never consider using a Mac. 
    Had to read your reply couple times to understand your comment has nothing to do with what I said about Mac users. I understand you’re worried about Windows users changing to Macs not having a built-in way to watch TV. There is an adaptor for this but built-in is nicer. I hope you understand the new MBPs aren’t really for HDTV viewers. The HDMI port is for viewing app output not for watching YouTube videos. I know there are PC users doing gaming so maybe they want (only) HDTV resolution displays but why buy a Mac for specialized gaming (only) use. The HDMI port isn’t the primary display port, the TB ports are giving 8K(?) resolution. Like I said above the new MBPs are serious (expensive) laptops meant for people who need (want) powerful computers to do their work. These are tools not web browsing and email-only tablets. Of course anyone can buy one. As for Windows users wanting to move to Macs, they would need to have more reasons to move than an HDMI port. 
    There are lots of Windows users that don't run specialized programs that is available on Windows only. And they don't use HDMI often either, But occasionally they might bring MacBook Pro to an place that are full of Windows users. In that situation, he does not even need to bring a HDMI cable. It will be very easy to find one. This is called convenience. Convenience is also a good feature of a good product. 
    elijahgsbdude
  • Reply 36 of 173
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,494member
    I still don't get why people are bitching so much about the HDMI port. Does it somehow offend your 'Apple' sensibilities? Honestly, who has a better cause to whine - the people missing a port that they need or the people who have to 'put up' with a port that they don't need?

    The fact of the matter is HDMI is THE standard if you ever need to give a presentation in a conference and is still far more common than USB C and display port. If you don't use it, fine. you lose nothing unless you actually need 4 TB 4 ports (and even then you've got the MagSafe so you're not using a port for charging. So far I've seen exactly one person who says they use all 4 TB ports. If the sight of it is that offensive to you you can take some silver epoxy and fill it in so it disappears.


    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingammobirdfirelockirelanddocno42
  • Reply 37 of 173
    MplsP said:
    I still don't get why people are bitching so much about the HDMI port. Does it somehow offend your 'Apple' sensibilities? Honestly, who has a better cause to whine - the people missing a port that they need or the people who have to 'put up' with a port that they don't need?

    The fact of the matter is HDMI is THE standard if you ever need to give a presentation in a conference and is still far more common than USB C and display port. If you don't use it, fine. you lose nothing unless you actually need 4 TB 4 ports (and even then you've got the MagSafe so you're not using a port for charging. So far I've seen exactly one person who says they use all 4 TB ports. If the sight of it is that offensive to you you can take some silver epoxy and fill it in so it disappears.


    Simply use two ports on each side maxed you out, actually.  Now you have three of course.

    But I guess haters switched side as well so 😂can’t blame them.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 173
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,010member
    The additional ports, legacy ports, and MagSafe don’t really matter to me when I’m looking for a personal computer for home use. Using dongles and docks on a notebook computer that stays close to home is not a big deal at all.  

    On the other hand, for work use in a corporate environment the MagSafe and legacy ports like HDMI and SD are still kind of “expected” for office and development productivity and their omission was sometimes seen as a negative mark and conveyed a certain sense that the machines weren’t really well suited for “real/corporate work” environments other than PowerPoint engineers. Heck, in some industries “work” laptops were expected to have RS-232 serial ports for many years beyond these ports being featured on consumer focused laptops. 

    My take is that Apple is simply trying to gain marketshare in the corporate sector where cutting edge design, aesthetics, and fashion statements don’t hold as much sway as practicality, bottom line ROI, and as a fundamental tool to enable productivity workers to get stuff done with as little friction as possible. 

    Nobody is going to feature a Dell Latitude in all of its plasticy glory as a backdrop in a flashy tv show or movie, but Dell is going to sell boatloads of these things to corporate customers. Apple wants a piece of this action. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 173
    chasmchasm Posts: 2,415member
    I preferred the touchbar (I have never used function keys at all except as media keys), and consider the full-size ones to be a waste of space. The HDMI and card reader ports I totally get, and I’m sure people appreciate the bigger battery — I just wish it hadn’t meant a  huge increase in weight, as it makes (especially) the 16-inch model even more impractical for travel.

    One nitpick with the article: to the best of my knowledge, every MBP has retained a headphone jack. My 2019 has one, as did my previous ones (though I *hate* where the jack is on the 2019 compared to where it was on, say, the 2012 model).
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 173
    I miss the Jony Ive days where he was backed up by Steve Jobs and changed the world a few times. 

    When Cook came in, it was obvious that he was the right guy to build upon a great foundation, but also the wrong guy to pair with Ive. It seemed Ive had to dream up a fantastic design like a touchbar, MBP with the slickest aesthetics in a laptop, and forward thinking USB C THUNDERBOLT, where all ports can charge and do everything there is to possibly do - only to have cook and some others compromise that vision by limiting the move to only laptops - thereby ensuring a fresh new standard never takes off. And the touchbar… such a fantastic idea, yet absolutely zero development was given after launch and it was also limited to laptops. No Mac Pro keyboard. No iMac keyboard, etc. ridiculous. I cdd as my imagine the frustration I’ve must have felt. At least he got to do the new Mac Pro and display properly. 

    The so called new Apple doesn’t have Ive’s intrinsic vision. So we are stuck with new iMacs aping Jony’s iMac from the 90’s, new MBPs aping his PowerBooks from 2004, and video game console style power bricks that litter your floor. And somehow, people are trying to tell us this is “better.”

    LOL

    The sooner they contract out to LoveFrom, the better. Hoping they do it for the iMac Pro. No one wants their pro machine looking like a fisher price toy. 

    The one area Apple is killing it is in the silicon. Amazing. The design is now s mixed bag. I’m sure it will get better, but that won’t be by leaving Ive’s vision behind and implementing someone else’s new stuff. It will be by cherishing it and aiming to improve upon it.
    watto_cobraPShimi
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