Wasn't QC actually in the ARM based SoCs for PC/laptops before Apple with the Snapdragon 8cx and 7c compute platforms?
And Samsung was making knockoff Blackberries before iPhone….
If you think Qualcomm is reacting to their old crappy chips then you’re really delusional. They even said they were reacting to Apple themselves! But let’s move the goalposts so Apple gets ZERO credit!
I don't want Apple to be the only company in the world with good products, whether it be phones, tablets, computers, CPUs, GPUs, user interfaces, wearables, superior user privacy, or all of the above combined. Unfortunately we live in this universe.
There is nothing wrong with being late to the party if what you are bringing is a game changer. That's what Apple is known for. Not being a leader but taking tech and improving it and making what was often rough and ready... usable.
Intel is likely the only one who will be worried about this. M series chips are Apple only. the ones from Q will be sold to anyone. Even if they are only as good as the current M1, I can see a lot of low end companies going with them. MS will quickly follow by releasing their ARM version of Windows. Then Intel will be in a real bind.
Intel is likely the only one who will be worried about this. M series chips are Apple only. the ones from Q will be sold to anyone. Even if they are only as good as the current M1, I can see a lot of low end companies going with them. MS will quickly follow by releasing their ARM version of Windows. Then Intel will be in a real bind.
"Even if they are only as good as the current M1, I can see a lot of low end companies going with them" => 100% this. This is a far bigger threat to Intel than it is to Apple.
"MS will quickly follow by releasing their ARM version of Windows." => MS has had an ARM version of Windows for awhile now. If Qualcomm can make a very competitive ARM SoC for the Windows market, this could accelerate the market share of WoA vs its x86 counterpart.
Qualcomm has been making ARM chips for a while snd they get spanked by the A series.
Now they’ll make second rate ARM chips for PCs, but who is going to buy them?
Microsoft and Google are supposedly jumping into the fray. No dis is making a strong move into ARM by buying the company. Samsung has been making RISC chips for a long time.
And those companies make their own hardware in limited cases.
Apple can do this so well because they make all their hardware snd software. And they have an economy of scale that no one can match across devices.
Is Dell or HP going to go all in on grown up SnapDragon CPUs? Will MS touch them? Google? Lenovo? Snapdragon was tolerable when they had strongARM and SPH RISC chips to compete with. But for actual mainstream desirable performance? They will have to invest quite a bit in new designs and they may not break even, let alone profit.
I can see some niche lines adopting these, but that’s it. And it will be an economic failure.
Qualcomm is just burnt that Apple is building their own modem, which will devastate Qualcomm’s earnings. But spending on a new CPU design that:
a) won’t perform as well b) won’t be as cost effective c) has nowhere to go d) isn’t in line with the company’s DNA and therefore leads to fragmented development and vision.
So, hey Qualcomm… good luck. We need someone nipping at Apples heels - or more realistically barking from a block away - to keep Apple feeling the need to push things further.
Maybe Qualcomm’s statement is their version of Wayne Gretzky’s skating to wear the puck is going to be?
Nah. They only said this a year after Apple went ahead and actually skated to where the puck is going to be. The puck is now being guided by Apple and they’ve already put up a huge lead on the scoreboard.
Microsoft, Google, Intel, Nvidia, etc. are already chasing Apple, following the leader.
Qualcomm is just following everyone else who are following Apple.
Apple saw a nice blue ocean, dove in and profited.
Now everyone and their mom wants some of that. But the ocean is already red. And going to get worse for all involved save the apex predator that is Apple. It’s quite astounding just how solid Apple is. Not only thst, but how they have a solid cultural structure for not only future innovation, but reliable execution.
Wasn't QC actually in the ARM based SoCs for PC/laptops before Apple with the Snapdragon 8cx and 7c compute platforms?
And Samsung was making knockoff Blackberries before iPhone….
If you think Qualcomm is reacting to their old crappy chips then you’re really delusional. They even said they were reacting to Apple themselves! But let’s move the goalposts so Apple gets ZERO credit!
You are going to have to point out where the goalposts were moved.
Qualcomm is on its own roadmap. It wasn't 'late to the party' and earlier this year it announced the 7c gen 2.
Huawei is doing the same but it began with smartphones (Kirin) and went to the top end with AI training clusters (Ascend) , servers... and then desktops for business (Kunpeng).
Apple is doing the same but in CE and PC contexts.
Will Intel and AMD eventually dump x86 to make ARM chips instead? Will Intel's future mostly be as a foundry making Nuvia chips?
Interesting times!
Kind of funny and sad and ironic as Intel has had ARM based tech and processors for over 20 years. Intel has XScale processors, based on ARM, which they got through DEC's StrongARM processor family that they acquired with DEC'S processor business purchase. StrongARM was actually developed by DEC for Apple for use with the Newton MessagePad.
XScale division was sold to another company many years ago. And I wouldn't go as far to say that StrongARM was developed for Apple. Apple just happened to be a possible client, since they were already using ARM in the Newton.
The real irony here is that Apple was the company that originally convinced and teamed up with Acorn to develop an extremely low-power version of their ARM CPU's so that they can be used in the upcoming Newton. Then, Apple basically abandoned ARM only to return and become one of the most competent ARM core design teams in the world.
You cannot "take on Apple" with any kind of CPUs or hardware unless you are making Macs, which is impossible since Apple doesn't allow clones. So in fact, Qualcomm is instead taking on Intel, since Intel too will need to enter this "high performance, low power" space to remain relevant in the long haul.
As a Mac owner who exclusively owns Macs, I really don't care so much about what goes on in the world of Windoze, UNLESS those folks finally see the light and buy a Mac. More people buying Apple products is good for AAPL! :-)
Wasn't QC actually in the ARM based SoCs for PC/laptops before Apple with the Snapdragon 8cx and 7c compute platforms?
And Samsung was making knockoff Blackberries before iPhone….
If you think Qualcomm is reacting to their old crappy chips then you’re really delusional. They even said they were reacting to Apple themselves! But let’s move the goalposts so Apple gets ZERO credit!
You are going to have to point out where the goalposts were moved.
Qualcomm is on its own roadmap. It wasn't 'late to the party' and earlier this year it announced the 7c gen 2.
Clearly you're very immersed in the manufacturing side of things and take a clinical 'roadmap' view of the world. I'm involved with meetings where people outline roadmaps all the time, and it all sounds great in a PowerPoint presentation: ticking the boxes. But nothing would ever move forward if creating products was simply about bumping the specs and ticking the feature boxes.
And I get it, Qualcomm is simply a component manufacturer for other companies who create the products, and a successful one at that. Division of labour: we do our part, iterate the design and tick the boxes, then you do your part, package it up and tick the boxes, and out the other end comes something which ticks the boxes. Everyone meets expectations and we get what's expected.
Then Apple comes out with something beyond what's expected, but rather than see what makes it a better solution, it's reduced down to simply being the same components everyone else has. The marketing must be why people are excited about it, not the fact that they're finding innovative ways to create products that are truly an evolution of what came before. The iPhone was simply an inevitability given the components.
I guess I understand now that it's not even moving the goalposts for such people. It's really just being immersed in a world where nothing is more than the sum of its parts. Innovation and inspiration are irrelevant.
We'll see how much of Apple technology those Nuvia people got out the door - and there may be litigation if Apple starts see trade secrets or Apple IP in whatever comes out of Nuvia's front door.
This will certainly be one of the the big issues, even if it’s not litigated. Qualcomm seems dead set on using it’s IP to control the market, even if their actual products aren’t up to par. (One wonders why Sweeney Todd isn’t screaming about how Intel/MS/Qualcomm stifle innovation and performance… )
Wasn't QC actually in the ARM based SoCs for PC/laptops before Apple with the Snapdragon 8cx and 7c compute platforms?
And Samsung was making knockoff Blackberries before iPhone….
If you think Qualcomm is reacting to their old crappy chips then you’re really delusional. They even said they were reacting to Apple themselves! But let’s move the goalposts so Apple gets ZERO credit!
You are going to have to point out where the goalposts were moved.
Qualcomm is on its own roadmap. It wasn't 'late to the party' and earlier this year it announced the 7c gen 2.
Huawei is doing the same but it began with smartphones (Kirin) and went to the top end with AI training clusters (Ascend) , servers... and then desktops for business (Kunpeng).
Apple is doing the same but in CE and PC contexts.
Weren't you aware of all this?
I don't see here any roadmap at all. Qualcomm was simply shaken up by Apple's M1 move. It is Qualcomm trying to catch up with Apple, not opposite around The Qualcomm CEO admit it him self. He said:
"..... the company needed to produce its own silicon if its customers want to take on Apple directly....." and ".....Qualcomm new chips will provide high levels of performance and battery life, echoing the benefits of Apple's M1 range."
It is again Apple showing the way for the rest.........
Just so everyone is aware, if NUVIA's performance claims are true (keep in mind the big "if"), then Qualcomm will be ahead of the M1 and more likely in a position to compete with an M2 series chip:
Given the reputation of the engineers behind NUVIA and the fact that Qualcomm paid a relatively significant sum for them to fill this exact need, it does give their claim some merit. So don't be surprised if it does end up competing with Apple's late 2022 / early 2023 offerings.
Once again though, we still have yet to see an actual product, so take this with a grain of salt until we do.
For all the people mocking QC, they have a long history and a lot of experience in processor design, so they're not exactly 'new' to the game.
Ultimately, though, if they want to build a desktop-class processor, they need to have an OS to run on it. Microsoft has not shown any will to make ARM processors a viable alternative for windows. until they do, any non-x86 chip will be fighting with one hand behind its back.
Comments
If you think Qualcomm is reacting to their old crappy chips then you’re really delusional. They even said they were reacting to Apple themselves! But let’s move the goalposts so Apple gets ZERO credit!
"MS will quickly follow by releasing their ARM version of Windows." => MS has had an ARM version of Windows for awhile now. If Qualcomm can make a very competitive ARM SoC for the Windows market, this could accelerate the market share of WoA vs its x86 counterpart.
a) won’t perform as well
b) won’t be as cost effective
c) has nowhere to go
d) isn’t in line with the company’s DNA and therefore leads to fragmented development and vision.
Qualcomm is on its own roadmap. It wasn't 'late to the party' and earlier this year it announced the 7c gen 2.
Huawei is doing the same but it began with smartphones (Kirin) and went to the top end with AI training clusters (Ascend) , servers... and then desktops for business (Kunpeng).
Apple is doing the same but in CE and PC contexts.
Weren't you aware of all this?
The real irony here is that Apple was the company that originally convinced and teamed up with Acorn to develop an extremely low-power version of their ARM CPU's so that they can be used in the upcoming Newton. Then, Apple basically abandoned ARM only to return and become one of the most competent ARM core design teams in the world.
As a Mac owner who exclusively owns Macs, I really don't care so much about what goes on in the world of Windoze, UNLESS those folks finally see the light and buy a Mac. More people buying Apple products is good for AAPL! :-)
And I get it, Qualcomm is simply a component manufacturer for other companies who create the products, and a successful one at that. Division of labour: we do our part, iterate the design and tick the boxes, then you do your part, package it up and tick the boxes, and out the other end comes something which ticks the boxes. Everyone meets expectations and we get what's expected.
Then Apple comes out with something beyond what's expected, but rather than see what makes it a better solution, it's reduced down to simply being the same components everyone else has. The marketing must be why people are excited about it, not the fact that they're finding innovative ways to create products that are truly an evolution of what came before. The iPhone was simply an inevitability given the components.
I guess I understand now that it's not even moving the goalposts for such people. It's really just being immersed in a world where nothing is more than the sum of its parts. Innovation and inspiration are irrelevant.
This will certainly be one of the the big issues, even if it’s not litigated. Qualcomm seems dead set on using it’s IP to control the market, even if their actual products aren’t up to par. (One wonders why Sweeney Todd isn’t screaming about how Intel/MS/Qualcomm stifle innovation and performance… )
It is Qualcomm trying to catch up with Apple, not opposite around
The Qualcomm CEO admit it him self. He said:
"..... the company needed to produce its own silicon if its customers want to take on Apple directly....." and
".....Qualcomm new chips will provide high levels of performance and battery life, echoing the benefits of Apple's M1 range."
It is again Apple showing the way for the rest.........
Still thinking about when iPhone went w/ a 64-bit chip architecture the bozos at Qualcomm mocked that decision saying it was unnecessary. lol
With some decent ARM Soc's in the market may be the iPad competitors might finally lift their game.
They started the smartphone party where everyone finally realized what a smartphone really was.
Given the reputation of the engineers behind NUVIA and the fact that Qualcomm paid a relatively significant sum for them to fill this exact need, it does give their claim some merit. So don't be surprised if it does end up competing with Apple's late 2022 / early 2023 offerings.
Once again though, we still have yet to see an actual product, so take this with a grain of salt until we do.
Ultimately, though, if they want to build a desktop-class processor, they need to have an OS to run on it. Microsoft has not shown any will to make ARM processors a viable alternative for windows. until they do, any non-x86 chip will be fighting with one hand behind its back.