Apple will allow customers to repair iPhones and Macs in 2022

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 88
    Hopefully, Apple will either have the parts or their parts supplier can sell them to the owner or third party repair business.  Without the replacement parts readily available, it just words!  Sound pretty in the storyline!
    Why don’t you read the article and find out?
    randominternetpersontenthousandthingswilliamlondonMacsWithPenguinspscooter63MplsProundaboutnowwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 88
    Very cool idea.  I doubt that this will be cheap but at least it offers the option.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 88
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,429member
    mike1 said:
    avon b7 said:
    On the face of it, a great move and much needed option.

    I'm not sure about the requirement to return core parts but that's a minor quibble in the grand scheme of things. 

    Now they (and everybody else) need to design for repair. 
    Returning of original parts is usually a requirement for warranty repairs. It helps in determining root causes of problems and it keeps the bad parts off the street. You know darn well, there are those who will take the new part and try to sell off the old, bad part to some unsuspecting person.

    Proper process is to charge for the shipped parts and credit them back after the old parts are returned.
    Warranty repairs I can kind of understand but  this move is clearly designed mainly for out of warranty repairs.

    At least here in the EU I was pretty sure that replaced parts had to be handed over to the owner unless signed over to the repair shop/manufacturer for refurbishing, recycling or safe disposal.

    That was the case a few years ago when I had a Canon camera repaired and the repair form had a checkbox to 'release' the part or not. 

    I was under the impression that this was hardwired into law here but I haven't checked, and the only things I've had 'repaired' were a 42 inch plasma screen with a faulty pixel (panel swap) and a smart plug which was replaced without needing to send it back to Amazon.

    I've been lucky over the last few years. 
  • Reply 24 of 88
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,396member
    This is an amazing turn of events. Kinda cuts a lot of the RtR chatter off at the knees. I also like how apple is going directly to the end user. This is in addition to the existing Authorized Apple Repair shops. Nice.

    muchomac said:
    avon b7 said:
    I'm not sure about the requirement to return core parts but that's a minor quibble in the grand scheme of things. 

    Requirements to return parts are common in many industries. The auto parts industry for example. You can buy an alternator, car battery, etc, and will receive credit back if you send them the old damaged one. It is not REQUIRED, but you are losing money if you don't. In most cases they will try to repair it and resell it as refurbished, or will adequately recycle it.

    Which they included older models at the same time. I mean, who wants to open up their $1000 1 or 2-year-old phone, which might still be under warranty?
    No they are nor requirement. You have wrong information. You get discount if you do. In fact, I demand repairman to return some of old parts to me. Those parts belong to me - not to manufacturer. For example battery replacement will be cheaper if you return old core, but there is no requirement. Yes I know many shops do not like it, but I do not give damn. I own the care - i own the old parts - i do what I want and you cannot require me to return them if I do not want to. Want to have conversation with repair shop manager - meet me... or my lawyer.
    Apparently you did not read the previous comment. They specifically said returning the core is not required, but you are leaving money on the table if you don’t.

    I do fail to see why you want the old parts. I want to look at them sure to make sure what was replaced was bad, but I see no reason to clutter my home with old alternators, or brake callipers, or phone screens, or batteries. They are broken parts. True I may own them but they are literally junk. That’s why they are getting replaced. 
    randominternetpersonwilliamlondonpscooter63elijahgwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 88
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,553administrator
    muchomac said:
    avon b7 said:
    I'm not sure about the requirement to return core parts but that's a minor quibble in the grand scheme of things. 

    Requirements to return parts are common in many industries. The auto parts industry for example. You can buy an alternator, car battery, etc, and will receive credit back if you send them the old damaged one. It is not REQUIRED, but you are losing money if you don't. In most cases they will try to repair it and resell it as refurbished, or will adequately recycle it.

    Which they included older models at the same time. I mean, who wants to open up their $1000 1 or 2-year-old phone, which might still be under warranty?
    No they are nor requirement. You have wrong information. You get discount if you do. In fact, I demand repairman to return some of old parts to me. Those parts belong to me - not to manufacturer. For example battery replacement will be cheaper if you return old core, but there is no requirement. Yes I know many shops do not like it, but I do not give damn. I own the care - i own the old parts - i do what I want and you cannot require me to return them if I do not want to. Want to have conversation with repair shop manager - meet me... or my lawyer.
    You won't HAVE to return a "core" part -- but it will cost notably more if you don't. More on how this works for Apple a bit later today.
    I is not called "core" part . It is called battery core - proper name for it. Go to car store and check. Use proper naming. It was not accidental what I used. No double quotes required.
    Apple absolutely calls it a "core." Why would I go to a car store to see what Apple has been calling a service part return for 30 years?

    This is not the first time you talked out your ass about something you don't know anything about.
    edited November 2021 randominternetpersontenthousandthingswilliamlondondoozydozenpscooter63MplsProundaboutnowelijahgwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 88
    This seems like the right time to do it - in this environment where self-service is gaining moment, when someone inevitably destroys their device, it’s relatively straight forward to push against the inevitable blame - that this was the user’s decision.

    A bit similar to how we’re seeing app developers getting called out when they provide b/s reasons why their invasive app was rejected from the app store. 
    maximarawatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 88
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Why do all the cartoon bodies have such thick bodies and small heads?  Weird design choice by Apple :smiley: 
    hammeroftruthMacsWithPenguins
  • Reply 28 of 88
    As a Mac user who, for years, upgraded my RAM and HD’s, I am curious if this will empower users to do those kinds of “repairs.” I have been really annoyed that I haven’t been able to do this sort of work on my current Mac mini to extend its useful life. 
    williamlondonAI_liaswatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 88
    The basic principle of DIY repairs is sound, I guess. But I personally won’t buy any secondhand Apple devices without warranty anymore. The risk that they have been improperly repaired just went through the roof.

    I think this may have hurt prices on the secondhand market, which in turn is bad from sustainability perspectives — quite contrary to what people believe. Sustainability does often come with some costs. One of them is the cost for professional repairs.

    I don’t say all DIY repairs are necessarily bad, but the risks are quite much higher than if skilled professionals do it. And bad repairs will only send the device faster towards its graveyard.
    edited November 2021 randominternetpersonwilliamlondonpscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 88
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    The basic principle of DIY repairs is sound, I guess. But I personally won’t buy any secondhand Apple devices without warranty anymore. The risk that they have been improperly repaired just went through the roof.

    I think this may have hurt prices on the secondhand market, which in turn is bad from sustainability perspectives — quite contrary to what people believe.
    Why would lower prices on the second-hand market hurt sustainability?
    elijahg
  • Reply 31 of 88
    Massive fuck-you to Rossman and other independent shops (many who sell cloned parts and tell your they’re OEM or sell parts salvaged from stolen devices).

    Now Apple has added the DIY repair-at-home option to existing authorized repair centers. This leaves independent shops in a wasteland. They could easily become Apple authorized service centers, but they refuse. Why would anyone not want to become Authorized by Apple so you can tell your customers you’re using genuine Apple parts and are certified by Apple?

    Simple. Because, like most industries, warranty depots have procedures to follow. One is they must agree to audits to make sure they’re operating on the up-and-up. The last thing an independent shop wants is an audit. This would put an end to them buying cheap cloned parts from 3rd party manufacturers and passing them off as OEM (and making extra money). If you replaced 100 screens for customers you have to also show a purchase of 100 screens from Apple. Audits eliminate their ability to use alternate parts for repairs.
    williamlondonmaximarawatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 88
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Massive fuck-you to Rossman and other independent shops (many who sell cloned parts and tell your they’re OEM or sell parts salvaged from stolen devices).

    Now Apple has added the DIY repair-at-home option to existing authorized repair centers. This leaves independent shops in a wasteland. They could easily become Apple authorized service centers, but they refuse. Why would anyone not want to become Authorized by Apple so you can tell your customers you’re using genuine Apple parts and are certified by Apple?

    Simple. Because, like most industries, warranty depots have procedures to follow. One is they must agree to audits to make sure they’re operating on the up-and-up. The last thing an independent shop wants is an audit. This would put an end to them buying cheap cloned parts from 3rd party manufacturers and passing them off as OEM (and making extra money). If you replaced 100 screens for customers you have to also show a purchase of 100 screens from Apple. Audits eliminate their ability to use alternate parts for repairs.
    If you actually watched Rossman you'd know he has some very good reasons for not wanting to be an authorised shop that have nothing to do with knock off parts.  

    Rossman is a grumpy sod, but he's fighting a good fight.
    neoncatmuthuk_vanalingamelijahg
  • Reply 33 of 88
    muchomac said:
    avon b7 said:
    I'm not sure about the requirement to return core parts but that's a minor quibble in the grand scheme of things. 

    Requirements to return parts are common in many industries. The auto parts industry for example. You can buy an alternator, car battery, etc, and will receive credit back if you send them the old damaged one. It is not REQUIRED, but you are losing money if you don't. In most cases they will try to repair it and resell it as refurbished, or will adequately recycle it.

    Which they included older models at the same time. I mean, who wants to open up their $1000 1 or 2-year-old phone, which might still be under warranty?
    No they are nor requirement. You have wrong information. You get discount if you do. In fact, I demand repairman to return some of old parts to me. Those parts belong to me - not to manufacturer. For example battery replacement will be cheaper if you return old core, but there is no requirement. Yes I know many shops do not like it, but I do not give damn. I own the care - i own the old parts - i do what I want and you cannot require me to return them if I do not want to. Want to have conversation with repair shop manager - meet me... or my lawyer.

    Watch out, we’ve got a bad-ass here.

    It’s standard procedure to return cores for parts, if the repairs are done under warranty. If it’s out of warranty, you can sometimes keep the parts. Except in the case of cores (very common in automotive). Some components are rebuilt by the manufacturer and the require the old part back. Not likely for a screen, but that’s the reason for cores.

    Cores also keep shops honest. By sending back a used screen for each new screen purchased Apple can verify a part was replaced. It’s one technique used to make sure shops aren’t sourcing screens from a 3rd party copycat supplier. Parts bought from Apple have to match used parts returned. Very common practice for service centers.
    williamlondonmaximarawatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 88
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,553administrator
    Theo_Belk said:
    lkrupp said:
    Anyone who attempts to repair their device while still under warranty needs a brain transplant. You tinker with your device you void the warranty, period. That’s universal with warranties as far as I know. Witness the guy who broke the screen of his brand new iMac Pro taking it apart and then bitched about Apple refusing to repair it even if he was willing to pay for it. My response to those assholes is a big Fick Dich!

    People with devices under warranty typically will use that warranty, unless its damage not covered by warranty. Then a repair kit for say, a broken screen, would be a nice option.

    As for the iMac Pro, I believe you are taking about Linus. You don't see anything wrong with Apple refusing to repair a broken machine when the owner is willing to pay for it? Bad things can happen to machines even when they're not being taken apart by a YouTube tech geek. How much would you appreciate it if Apple refused to repair your $5000 machine that fell off a table? I seem to recall that the underlying story behind that is Apple didn't actually have the parts or trained technicians in place to do a repair since it was a very new product at the time. Also they being vindictive pissants.
    His story was that there were no parts. But, there were, and there was training available. We covered it at some length. We suspect the AASP he contacted punted, and didn't give him great information.

    Bad things can happen to machines above and beyond what the user self-diagnoses. Apple was 100% in the right for telling them to just buy a new one, as the after-core return part price was well over the cost of the machine new.
    edited November 2021 williamlondonmaximarawatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 88
    Massive fuck-you to Rossman and other independent shops (many who sell cloned parts and tell your they’re OEM or sell parts salvaged from stolen devices).

    Now Apple has added the DIY repair-at-home option to existing authorized repair centers. This leaves independent shops in a wasteland. They could easily become Apple authorized service centers, but they refuse. Why would anyone not want to become Authorized by Apple so you can tell your customers you’re using genuine Apple parts and are certified by Apple?

    Simple. Because, like most industries, warranty depots have procedures to follow. One is they must agree to audits to make sure they’re operating on the up-and-up. The last thing an independent shop wants is an audit. This would put an end to them buying cheap cloned parts from 3rd party manufacturers and passing them off as OEM (and making extra money). If you replaced 100 screens for customers you have to also show a purchase of 100 screens from Apple. Audits eliminate their ability to use alternate parts for repairs.
    I’m not that familiar with Rossman but doesn’t he do component level repairs? If he was an authorized service rep he wouldn’t be able to do that.
    muthuk_vanalingamelijahgwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 88
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,542member
    I'm totally in favor of any improvements Apple can make to improve the repairability of their products, which should also improve the recycleability of systems and components. I think it'll still take a big change in design philosophy and a few release cycles for Apple to get to where they need to be to quiet the detractors.

    I doubt that Apple will ever get to the point that approaches the desires of hobbyist builders and tinkerers who would like to build a complete system from scratch using a big bag of parts. That's okay, I suppose the percentage of people who want to engage in that sort of thing is probably as small as the number of car owners who still do their own repairs. I used to do as much of my own car repair as I could, but in the last couple of decades just looking under the hood and seeing the sea of plastic covers, shrouds, and camouflage that's intended to obscure the fact that there is even an engine under the hood keeps me from even thinking about it. The use of glue, press fit connectors, delicate ribbon cables, one of a kind screws, and seemingly infinite layers of nested assemblies in modern devices and computers conveys the same "don't mess with it" message to me. I've serviced my own PC laptops that required removing close to 30 screws of various types and lengths - to replace a stupid fan, and it was tedious as hell - like a very un-fun game.

    Anyway, good move, I guess, but more for the folks who most customers will be paying to service their Apple products. But do I expect the next iteration of the MacBook Pro to have customer-replaceable memory, storage, keyboards, trackpads, and screens? Hell no. Not even if they invest in a heat gun, wide array of spudgers, pry bars, security torx drivers, and all other manner of tools that are implicitly telling you "You really shouldn't be trying to do this yourself, Bubba, no matter how many PBRs you've downed to prepare yourself for the task at hand."
    edited November 2021 muthuk_vanalingamrandominternetpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 88
    crowley said:
    Massive fuck-you to Rossman and other independent shops (many who sell cloned parts and tell your they’re OEM or sell parts salvaged from stolen devices).

    Now Apple has added the DIY repair-at-home option to existing authorized repair centers. This leaves independent shops in a wasteland. They could easily become Apple authorized service centers, but they refuse. Why would anyone not want to become Authorized by Apple so you can tell your customers you’re using genuine Apple parts and are certified by Apple?

    Simple. Because, like most industries, warranty depots have procedures to follow. One is they must agree to audits to make sure they’re operating on the up-and-up. The last thing an independent shop wants is an audit. This would put an end to them buying cheap cloned parts from 3rd party manufacturers and passing them off as OEM (and making extra money). If you replaced 100 screens for customers you have to also show a purchase of 100 screens from Apple. Audits eliminate their ability to use alternate parts for repairs.
    If you actually watched Rossman you'd know he has some very good reasons for not wanting to be an authorised shop that have nothing to do with knock off parts.  

    Rossman is a grumpy sod, but he's fighting a good fight.

    He has no good reasons. Any you can list can be easily debunked.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 88
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    georgie01 said:
    I’ve never been a fan of the right to repair movement because I think it’s totally fine for Apple to want to protect their reputation by trying to ensure some level of repair quality.

    But for some reason I’m totally in favour of this! Genuine Apple parts and presumably cheaper than taking it to an Apple Store.

    I'm waiting for a $45 throttle body for my Honda Accord to arrive via Fed Ex (assuming they don't deliver it to the wrong state again!).  I'll install it myself.  I'm thinking it will take me a couple hours or so.  An experienced mechanic could do it in about 30 minutes.  A Honda dealer would want about $1,000 for the same repair.

    I realize that I'm taking a risk of screwing up the car more than it is.  But the car is 22 years old -- so my liability is limited.

    On the other hand, doing fire calls for the Red Cross one of the most common causes of fire I saw was from DIY electrical wiring.  One guy plugged his coax cable into the the electric box.

    There's a time & place for DIY repairs.
    And, from what I've seen, replacing a throttle body is a whole lot easier and safer than replacing an iPhone screen.
    ...  I'll continue to take my phones to Apple for repair.  Actually, my policy has been to maintain AppleCare+ on all of my devices -- so nothing else makes sense.
    maximarawatto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 88
    Massive fuck-you to Rossman and other independent shops (many who sell cloned parts and tell your they’re OEM or sell parts salvaged from stolen devices).

    Now Apple has added the DIY repair-at-home option to existing authorized repair centers. This leaves independent shops in a wasteland. They could easily become Apple authorized service centers, but they refuse. Why would anyone not want to become Authorized by Apple so you can tell your customers you’re using genuine Apple parts and are certified by Apple?

    Simple. Because, like most industries, warranty depots have procedures to follow. One is they must agree to audits to make sure they’re operating on the up-and-up. The last thing an independent shop wants is an audit. This would put an end to them buying cheap cloned parts from 3rd party manufacturers and passing them off as OEM (and making extra money). If you replaced 100 screens for customers you have to also show a purchase of 100 screens from Apple. Audits eliminate their ability to use alternate parts for repairs.
    I’m not that familiar with Rossman but doesn’t he do component level repairs? If he was an authorized service rep he wouldn’t be able to do that.

    He does. 99% of shops don’t. He’s an exception. You can’t bend rules for an outlier.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 88
    crowley said:
    If you actually watched Rossman
    Please. None of the needlessly angry regulars here have any interest in ideas that are off-narrative.

    That being said, Rossman's presentation style harms a good message, in the same way iFixIt's recent four-alarm antics took attention off a genuinely important issue and instead put it on them, in the same way Apple's alarmist lobbying against RTR is specious and pandering.

    This is one of those situations where there's literally no one to root for. Apple, iFixIt, the many YouTubers shaking a clenched fist... Every single one of them is wrapping themselves in the flag and calling their cause moral and just. I trust none of them to represent what's the right choice for me. It's all controlling the narrative first, customers second. 
    edited November 2021 williamlondonelijahgmaximara
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