Well business is up because Tile is a far better product! Apple fan since the 80’s i rushed to the airtags only to find that if I want to stick it to my bicycle i need a third party add on, if i want to put it with my keys a need to drill a hole in it but what is very limiting is that you can have only 16. Why? Why is that? I have bags, car, bike, kids backpack, umbrellas etc. why limit it? And why 16? Not 31? Or 43? Or 9 and a half? And you cannot share it so my son has an air tag in his school pack but I cannot see it and look for it when in the morning we are rushing out and everyone is late. So, all back to Tiles! Waiting for Apple, as usual, to do a better and improved v2…
Agreed. I bought 4 Apple Tags but strongly prefer Tile.
When other company will stop point the finger to apple for everything? apple is free to do anything they want with all their products!!if i have my own product i will care for it!!why tile doesn't make some of their product with bactery replaceble??because in few year when you run out of battery you must buy a new one!!!sooo you see??stop blaiming apple for all they do...its only business!!
When will Apple fans stop pointing the finger to dozens of companies around the world expressing their concerns towards monopolist tech companies?
When will trolls stop coming to Apple rumor sites and stop using the monopolistic crap? Once you can tell us all what Apple actually has a monopoly in, report back. Have you gone say to a spotify rumor page and complained about their monopoly on streaming music and I think have over taken Apple in the podcast segment as well? No? Well why not?
Well business is up because Tile is a far better product! Apple fan since the 80’s i rushed to the airtags only to find that if I want to stick it to my bicycle i need a third party add on, if i want to put it with my keys a need to drill a hole in it but what is very limiting is that you can have only 16. Why? Why is that? I have bags, car, bike, kids backpack, umbrellas etc. why limit it? And why 16? Not 31? Or 43? Or 9 and a half? And you cannot share it so my son has an air tag in his school pack but I cannot see it and look for it when in the morning we are rushing out and everyone is late. So, all back to Tiles! Waiting for Apple, as usual, to do a better and improved v2…
Unbelievable. Apple was under no obligation to sell Tiles and they have every right to stop selling them. Quit whining and find a solution. Likewise Apple has every right to change its OS to favor its own products. Welcome to capitalism and competition.
True, Apple's not obligated to sell Tiles. Their whining about that is a waste of breath.
On the other hand, it's been established for many decades now that a monopoly platform company can be forced to open that platform to others.
Umm, Apple doesn't have a monopoly platform in iOS.
With Android as a not insignificant competitor, iOS isn't even a dominant platform like Microsoft had with Windows before Mac sales got some traction after the Intel switch.
So all your succeeding examples touting the case of Microsoft Windows is totally inapplicable.
BTW, gaining market share is not evidence of monopoly. If it's evidence for anything at all, it's that more and more consumers like your product. When customers liking your product makes you a monopoly, that's the end of the free enterprise system.
Just because a company (such as Apple) sells a product that a lot of people choose over the competitors' (such as Android phone mfrs), even if the competitor is priced much cheaper, doesn't make that company a monopolist.
An example of a monopolist is a company who tells their customers "You pay us based on how many computers you sell, even if some of your computers are shipped with OS2 rather than DOS/Windows. If you don't agree to that, then we won't sell DOS/Windows to you." That is baldfaced coercion, which is what Microsoft got criminally convicted for (among other practices).
The entitlement issues these companies have are truly impressive.
Here’s another example:
Does anyone remember when Apple first got into subscriptions for things like magazines and newspapers?
The publishers wanted Apple to forward the users information and credit card numbers when they clicked subscribe so that the publisher could directly bill the user for the subscription.
Think about that for a second. They didn’t just want outside billing - they wanted Apple to hand over your information to allow automated instant billing from their system.
I have no sympathy for these companies. They will never be satisfied. Apple should stand firm.
When other company will stop point the finger to apple for everything? apple is free to do anything they want with all their products!!if i have my own product i will care for it!!why tile doesn't make some of their product with bactery replaceble??because in few year when you run out of battery you must buy a new one!!!sooo you see??stop blaiming apple for all they do...its only business!!
When will Apple fans stop pointing the finger to dozens of companies around the world expressing their concerns towards monopolist tech companies?
When will trolls stop coming to Apple rumor sites and stop using the monopolistic crap? Once you can tell us all what Apple actually has a monopoly in, report back. Have you gone say to a spotify rumor page and complained about their monopoly on streaming music and I think have over taken Apple in the podcast segment as well? No? Well why not?
So to you a ‘troll’ constitutes someone with another opinion than yours?
I have commented on this with several arguments in threads before so I am not going repeat myself because it adds no value. My comment here was to demonstrate that there is another side to the debate, whether you like it or not.
Spotify is not a monopolist for several reasons. It’s a poor comparison. If you want to have that debate, fine, but it is a completely different conversation because it is not a platform holder, and there are far more players out there. In fact, Apple is abusing their power with Apple Music as well - another example of abuse of monopolist behavior. And that’s coming from someone who uses Apple products every day and likes them.
I don’t want to engage in a debate with you anyway; you have set up your mind to defend Apple at all costs with a zero-tolerance mind-set and no one will be able to even change your mind the slightest bit, considering your post history and the way you responded to my comment.
When other company will stop point the finger to apple for everything? apple is free to do anything they want with all their products!!if i have my own product i will care for it!!why tile doesn't make some of their product with bactery replaceble??because in few year when you run out of battery you must buy a new one!!!sooo you see??stop blaiming apple for all they do...its only business!!
When will Apple fans stop pointing the finger to dozens of companies around the world expressing their concerns towards monopolist tech companies?
When will trolls stop coming to Apple rumor sites and stop using the monopolistic crap? Once you can tell us all what Apple actually has a monopoly in, report back. Have you gone say to a spotify rumor page and complained about their monopoly on streaming music and I think have over taken Apple in the podcast segment as well? No? Well why not?
So to you a ‘troll’ constitutes someone with another opinion than yours?
I have commented on this with several arguments in threads before so I am not going repeat myself because it adds no value. My comment here was to demonstrate that there is another side to the debate, whether you like it or not.
Spotify is not a monopolist for several reasons. It’s a poor comparison. If you want to have that debate, fine, but it is a completely different conversation because it is not a platform holder, and there are far more players out there. In fact, Apple is abusing their power with Apple Music as well - another example of abuse of monopolist behavior. And that’s coming from someone who uses Apple products every day and likes them.
I don’t want to engage in a debate with you anyway; you have set up your mind to defend Apple at all costs with a zero-tolerance mind-set and no one will be able to even change your mind the slightest bit, considering your post history and the way you responded to my comment.
When other company will stop point the finger to apple for everything? apple is free to do anything they want with all their products!!if i have my own product i will care for it!!why tile doesn't make some of their product with bactery replaceble??because in few year when you run out of battery you must buy a new one!!!sooo you see??stop blaiming apple for all they do...its only business!!
When will Apple fans stop pointing the finger to dozens of companies around the world expressing their concerns towards monopolist tech companies?
When will trolls stop coming to Apple rumor sites and stop using the monopolistic crap? Once you can tell us all what Apple actually has a monopoly in, report back. Have you gone say to a spotify rumor page and complained about their monopoly on streaming music and I think have over taken Apple in the podcast segment as well? No? Well why not?
So to you a ‘troll’ constitutes someone with another opinion than yours?
I have commented on this with several arguments in threads before so I am not going repeat myself because it adds no value. My comment here was to demonstrate that there is another side to the debate, whether you like it or not.
Spotify is not a monopolist for several reasons. It’s a poor comparison. If you want to have that debate, fine, but it is a completely different conversation because it is not a platform holder, and there are far more players out there. In fact, Apple is abusing their power with Apple Music as well - another example of abuse of monopolist behavior. And that’s coming from someone who uses Apple products every day and likes them.
I don’t want to engage in a debate with you anyway; you have set up your mind to defend Apple at all costs with a zero-tolerance mind-set and no one will be able to even change your mind the slightest bit, considering your post history and the way you responded to my comment.
Opinions ≠ facts, stop conflating the two.
I am wondering, in respect to this conversation, what you consider facts and what you call opinion. Because your one-liner response makes no sense to me.
Unbelievable. Apple was under no obligation to sell Tiles and they have every right to stop selling them. Quit whining and find a solution. Likewise Apple has every right to change its OS to favor its own products. Welcome to capitalism and competition.
True, Apple's not obligated to sell Tiles. Their whining about that is a waste of breath.
On the other hand, it's been established for many decades now that a monopoly platform company can be forced to open that platform to others.
Umm, Apple doesn't have a monopoly platform in iOS.
With Android as a not insignificant competitor, iOS isn't even a dominant platform like Microsoft had with Windows before Mac sales got some traction after the Intel switch.
So all your succeeding examples touting the case of Microsoft Windows is totally inapplicable.
BTW, gaining market share is not evidence of monopoly. If it's evidence for anything at all, it's that more and more consumers like your product. When customers liking your product makes you a monopoly, that's the end of the free enterprise system.
I mostly agree with you. I don't think Apple holds a monopoly. However they unquestionably have significant market power and that's been enough to get targeted in the past, sometimes. More to the point, the fact that I agree with you doesn't means that courts always will. Apple won a significant victory against Epic recently, but the judge was very noncommittal in addressing that question - she basically said that Apple might be a monopoly, but that hadn't been demonstrated. And note that even without establishing that Apple is a monopoly, she ruled against them in part, which reinforces what I said first - you don't have to be a monopoly to come under scrutiny (and perhaps enforcement).
You seem to have missed my other point. It's not at all unlikely that Apple will be subjected to new laws by a hostile government, before being subject to application of existing monopoly laws. There's no requirement of a monopoly finding, or really anything else, in such a case. Congress regulates interstate commerce, and the courts are generally not going to get in the way of that.
All these "woke", entitled and self-flagellating CEO scum saying what they say, makes me want to buy Apple versions of these products even MORE than theirs, because I sure as fuck won't support such scumbags with my hard earned cash. Not that Apple needs my cash, but at least they don't act like this, and actually put out RELIABLE products that WORK!
Unbelievable. Apple was under no obligation to sell Tiles and they have every right to stop selling them. Quit whining and find a solution. Likewise Apple has every right to change its OS to favor its own products. Welcome to capitalism and competition.
True, Apple's not obligated to sell Tiles. Their whining about that is a waste of breath.
On the other hand, it's been established for many decades now that a monopoly platform company can be forced to open that platform to others.
Umm, Apple doesn't have a monopoly platform in iOS.
With Android as a not insignificant competitor, iOS isn't even a dominant platform like Microsoft had with Windows before Mac sales got some traction after the Intel switch.
So all your succeeding examples touting the case of Microsoft Windows is totally inapplicable.
BTW, gaining market share is not evidence of monopoly. If it's evidence for anything at all, it's that more and more consumers like your product. When customers liking your product makes you a monopoly, that's the end of the free enterprise system.
Here's the problem - Apple controls iOS. If Apple creates products that have exclusive access to certain iOS features or capabilities then those products have an advantage over other products. Someone was complaining about the Tile app being evil because it was always running in the background, but the AirTags app is doing that, too, it's just built into iOS so you don't get warned about it.
As a consumer, I like the integration that Apple products provide. They generally work well and are well made and are seamless, but at the same time, we all know that competition breeds innovation and better products, so if Apple is creating products that have access to iOS features that other products don't have then it potentially is harming competition.
Microsoft dealt with this in the past with Internet Explorer's integration with Windows. As I recall there was a requirement that the OS unit and the other software units of Microsoft be separate. The same rules would seem to apply here.
Here's the problem - Apple controls iOS. If Apple creates products that have exclusive access to certain iOS features or capabilities then those products have an advantage over other products. Someone was complaining about the Tile app being evil because it was always running in the background, but the AirTags app is doing that, too, it's just built into iOS so you don't get warned about it.
As a consumer, I like the integration that Apple products provide. They generally work well and are well made and are seamless, but at the same time, we all know that competition breeds innovation and better products, so if Apple is creating products that have access to iOS features that other products don't have then it potentially is harming competition.
Microsoft dealt with this in the past with Internet Explorer's integration with Windows. As I recall there was a requirement that the OS unit and the other software units of Microsoft be separate. The same rules would seem to apply here.
So you are saying that the "market" that Apple is "abusing" is IOS?
Good luck with that.
Why can't my Porsche entertainment system work on my Tesla? Why doesn't my LG fridge run Samsung apps? Heck, why can't my Mac apps run on Windows?
Two products from two different companies. I choose the company/product I prefer. If that is Apple, they must naturally be unfair. If that is Tile, does the same argument hold. It must.
Here's the problem - Apple controls iOS. If Apple creates products that have exclusive access to certain iOS features or capabilities then those products have an advantage over other products. Someone was complaining about the Tile app being evil because it was always running in the background, but the AirTags app is doing that, too, it's just built into iOS so you don't get warned about it.
As a consumer, I like the integration that Apple products provide. They generally work well and are well made and are seamless, but at the same time, we all know that competition breeds innovation and better products, so if Apple is creating products that have access to iOS features that other products don't have then it potentially is harming competition.
Microsoft dealt with this in the past with Internet Explorer's integration with Windows. As I recall there was a requirement that the OS unit and the other software units of Microsoft be separate. The same rules would seem to apply here.
So you are saying that the "market" that Apple is "abusing" is IOS?
Good luck with that.
Why can't my Porsche entertainment system work on my Tesla? Why doesn't my LG fridge run Samsung apps? Heck, why can't my Mac apps run on Windows?
Where did I say that? I'm saying if Apple's accessories have access to iOS (built in support, API's that are not publicly available, access to OS features that 3rd party accessories don't get, etc,) then that creates a potentially unfair advantage for Apple's products that other products don't get.
Take AirTags, for example. They work well because Apple essentially uses the entire iPhone base as an antenna. If you leave an AirTag someplace, Apple will pick it up if anyone goes near it with an iPhone. Anyone with an iPhone is part of this search network because it's built in to iOS on a low level and constantly 'running.' (I don't think you even have the ability to turn it off.) Contrast that with Tile. Unless Apple gives them access to the same OS functionality as AirTags, they have to have a separate App running in the background and are dependent on others installing and activating it, giving background permission, etc.
Here's the problem - Apple controls iOS. If Apple creates products that have exclusive access to certain iOS features or capabilities then those products have an advantage over other products. Someone was complaining about the Tile app being evil because it was always running in the background, but the AirTags app is doing that, too, it's just built into iOS so you don't get warned about it.
As a consumer, I like the integration that Apple products provide. They generally work well and are well made and are seamless, but at the same time, we all know that competition breeds innovation and better products, so if Apple is creating products that have access to iOS features that other products don't have then it potentially is harming competition.
Microsoft dealt with this in the past with Internet Explorer's integration with Windows. As I recall there was a requirement that the OS unit and the other software units of Microsoft be separate. The same rules would seem to apply here.
So you are saying that the "market" that Apple is "abusing" is IOS?
Good luck with that.
Why can't my Porsche entertainment system work on my Tesla? Why doesn't my LG fridge run Samsung apps? Heck, why can't my Mac apps run on Windows?
Where did I say that? I'm saying if Apple's accessories have access to iOS (built in support, API's that are not publicly available, access to OS features that 3rd party accessories don't get, etc,) then that creates a potentially unfair advantage for Apple's products that other products don't get.
Take AirTags, for example. They work well because Apple essentially uses the entire iPhone base as an antenna. If you leave an AirTag someplace, Apple will pick it up if anyone goes near it with an iPhone. Anyone with an iPhone is part of this search network because it's built in to iOS on a low level and constantly 'running.' (I don't think you even have the ability to turn it off.) Contrast that with Tile. Unless Apple gives them access to the same OS functionality as AirTags, they have to have a separate App running in the background and are dependent on others installing and activating it, giving background permission, etc.
Ok then, how is that not 100% Apple's own business if they want to allow access or not?
Is it unfair to have complete control of your own products?
Why does Apple have to make it fair for everyone else who didn't make iOS?
Here's the problem - Apple controls iOS. If Apple creates products that have exclusive access to certain iOS features or capabilities then those products have an advantage over other products. Someone was complaining about the Tile app being evil because it was always running in the background, but the AirTags app is doing that, too, it's just built into iOS so you don't get warned about it.
As a consumer, I like the integration that Apple products provide. They generally work well and are well made and are seamless, but at the same time, we all know that competition breeds innovation and better products, so if Apple is creating products that have access to iOS features that other products don't have then it potentially is harming competition.
Microsoft dealt with this in the past with Internet Explorer's integration with Windows. As I recall there was a requirement that the OS unit and the other software units of Microsoft be separate. The same rules would seem to apply here.
So you are saying that the "market" that Apple is "abusing" is IOS?
Good luck with that.
Why can't my Porsche entertainment system work on my Tesla? Why doesn't my LG fridge run Samsung apps? Heck, why can't my Mac apps run on Windows?
Where did I say that? I'm saying if Apple's accessories have access to iOS (built in support, API's that are not publicly available, access to OS features that 3rd party accessories don't get, etc,) then that creates a potentially unfair advantage for Apple's products that other products don't get.
Take AirTags, for example. They work well because Apple essentially uses the entire iPhone base as an antenna. If you leave an AirTag someplace, Apple will pick it up if anyone goes near it with an iPhone. Anyone with an iPhone is part of this search network because it's built in to iOS on a low level and constantly 'running.' (I don't think you even have the ability to turn it off.) Contrast that with Tile. Unless Apple gives them access to the same OS functionality as AirTags, they have to have a separate App running in the background and are dependent on others installing and activating it, giving background permission, etc.
Ok then, how is that not 100% Apple's own business if they want to allow access or not?
Is it unfair to have complete control of your own products?
Why does Apple have to make it fair for everyone else who didn't make iOS?
Let me spell it out for you: The entire question is whether it qualifies as a monopoly and anticompetitive behavior under antitrust laws.
Let me spell it out for you: The entire question is whether it qualifies as a monopoly and anticompetitive behavior under antitrust laws.
Well, the answer is it does not qualify as a monopoly by definition. And thus, not anticompetative by definition - anyone can compete... like Tile who actually made MORE money because of Apple.
But of course governments are going to look for the money and power, so nothing is off the table I suspect.
Comments
With Android as a not insignificant competitor, iOS isn't even a dominant platform like Microsoft had with Windows before Mac sales got some traction after the Intel switch.
So all your succeeding examples touting the case of Microsoft Windows is totally inapplicable.
BTW, gaining market share is not evidence of monopoly. If it's evidence for anything at all, it's that more and more consumers like your product. When customers liking your product makes you a monopoly, that's the end of the free enterprise system.
An example of a monopolist is a company who tells their customers "You pay us based on how many computers you sell, even if some of your computers are shipped with OS2 rather than DOS/Windows. If you don't agree to that, then we won't sell DOS/Windows to you." That is baldfaced coercion, which is what Microsoft got criminally convicted for (among other practices).
Here’s another example:
Does anyone remember when Apple first got into subscriptions for things like magazines and newspapers?
The publishers wanted Apple to forward the users information and credit card numbers when they clicked subscribe so that the publisher could directly bill the user for the subscription.
Think about that for a second. They didn’t just want outside billing - they wanted Apple to hand over your information to allow automated instant billing from their system.
I have no sympathy for these companies. They will never be satisfied. Apple should stand firm.
Spotify is not a monopolist for several reasons. It’s a poor comparison. If you want to have that debate, fine, but it is a completely different conversation because it is not a platform holder, and there are far more players out there. In fact, Apple is abusing their power with Apple Music as well - another example of abuse of monopolist behavior. And that’s coming from someone who uses Apple products every day and likes them.
I don’t want to engage in a debate with you anyway; you have set up your mind to defend Apple at all costs with a zero-tolerance mind-set and no one will be able to even change your mind the slightest bit, considering your post history and the way you responded to my comment.
All these "woke", entitled and self-flagellating CEO scum saying what they say, makes me want to buy Apple versions of these products even MORE than theirs, because I sure as fuck won't support such scumbags with my hard earned cash. Not that Apple needs my cash, but at least they don't act like this, and actually put out RELIABLE products that WORK!
As a consumer, I like the integration that Apple products provide. They generally work well and are well made and are seamless, but at the same time, we all know that competition breeds innovation and better products, so if Apple is creating products that have access to iOS features that other products don't have then it potentially is harming competition.
Microsoft dealt with this in the past with Internet Explorer's integration with Windows. As I recall there was a requirement that the OS unit and the other software units of Microsoft be separate. The same rules would seem to apply here.
Take AirTags, for example. They work well because Apple essentially uses the entire iPhone base as an antenna. If you leave an AirTag someplace, Apple will pick it up if anyone goes near it with an iPhone. Anyone with an iPhone is part of this search network because it's built in to iOS on a low level and constantly 'running.' (I don't think you even have the ability to turn it off.) Contrast that with Tile. Unless Apple gives them access to the same OS functionality as AirTags, they have to have a separate App running in the background and are dependent on others installing and activating it, giving background permission, etc.