Chinese media downplaying Apple's reported $275B deal with the country

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 84
    robabarobaba Posts: 228member
    For those who don’t have the time to check, these are the finding of facts that are a attached to HR 6210:

    Congress finds the following:

    (1) In the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of China, the Government of the People’s Republic of China has, since 2017, arbitrarily detained as many as 1.8 million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and members of other Muslim minority groups in a system of extrajudicial mass internment camps, and has subjected detainees to forced labor, torture, political indoctrination, and other severe human rights abuses.

    (2) Forced labor exists within the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region’s system of mass internment camps, and throughout the region, and is confirmed by the testimony of former camp detainees, satellite imagery, and official leaked documents from the Government of the People’s Republic of China as part of a targeted campaign of repression of Muslim ethnic minorities.

    (3) In addition to reports from researchers and civil society groups documenting evidence that many factories and other suppliers in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are exploiting forced labor, the Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security on July 22, 2020, added eleven entities to the entity list after determining the entities had been “implicated in human rights violations and abuses in the implementation of China’s campaign of repression, mass arbitrary detention, forced labor and high-technology surveillance against Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and other members of Muslim minority groups in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region”. 

    (4) Audits and efforts to vet products and supply chains in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are unreliable due to the extent forced labor has been integrated into the regional economy, the mixing of involuntary labor with voluntary labor, the inability of witnesses to speak freely about working conditions given government surveillance and coercion, and the incentive of government officials to conceal government-sponsored forced labor. 

    (5) The Department of State’s June 2019 Trafficking in Persons Report found that “Authorities offer subsidies incentivizing Chinese companies to open factories in close proximity to the internment camps, and local governments receive additional funds for each inmate forced to work in these sites at a fraction of minimum wage or without any compensation.”.

    (6) U.S. Customs and Border Protection has issued eight “Withhold Release Orders” on certain garments, hair products, cotton, processed cotton, and computer parts suspected to be produced with prison or forced labor in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. 

    (7) In its 2019 Annual Report, the Congressional-Executive Commission on China (CECC) found that products reportedly produced with forced labor by current and former mass internment camp detainees included textiles, electronics, food products, shoes, tea, and handicrafts.

    (8) Section 307 of the Tariff Act of 1930 (19 U.S.C. 1307) states that it is illegal to import into the United States “goods, wares, articles, and merchandise mined, produced, or manufactured wholly or in part” by forced labor. Such merchandise is subject to exclusion or seizure and may lead to criminal investigation of the importer.

    (9) The policies of the Government of the People’s Republic of China are in contravention of international human rights instruments signed by that government, including—

    (A) the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which the People’s Republic of China has signed but not yet ratified;

    (B) the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights, ratified by the People’s Republic of China in 2001; and

    (C) the United Nations Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, Especially Women and Children (Palermo Protocol), to which the People’s Republic of China has been a state party since February 2010.


  • Reply 62 of 84
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.

    China's growth is only contracting in relative terms, in actual terms it is not only expanding but expanding at over triple what ours is doing and will soon overtake us as the world's leading economy -- which is the real reason for the hate of the China Haters.
  • Reply 63 of 84
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.
    Japan was well ahead of China. In 1895 Japan defeated China forcing China to cede Taiwan to it for 50 years until 1945.
    ...and Japan ceded it to the Nationalists, not the CCP.

    Those 'nationalists" claimed that they represented all of China -- not an independent state.  There have never been two countries.  It's always been one.

    This independent Taiwan bullshit was spawned by the leader of the China Haters -- Donald Trump.  Why?  Because that's his way of waging war.  He tried to split China just as he split the U.S.   But now he is (hopefully) gone forever.  But his followers continue to follow.
  • Reply 64 of 84
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    Interestingly enough, GDP is an established metric of economic performance. If the PRC were leading, and they aren't, and they aren't likely to, then you would be basking in glory for your adopted motherland. 

    Ironically, Xi Jinping is attempting to moderate all of the wealthy billionaires in the PRC, to "spread the wealth" but the result will be to constrain the economy further. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/a8bb0913-8cf3-4a46-a1eb-32c23d79d079

    Thus, a vision of China’s future is taking shape. A mutual decoupling is emphasising China’s turn inward and its elevation of state actors to form a bulwark against both domestic vulnerabilities and mistrusted foreign forces. A Fortress China is under construction.

    The momentum behind this regrettable metamorphosis is strong. But Beijing should remember the extraordinary success of the last four decades was built, to a large degree, on an “open door” policy with the outside world. The influx of investment, technology and knowledge from overseas helped mightily in its ascent. With a rebound from recent protectionist tendencies, it could continue to do so in future.


    China is in a hurry as it knows that its demographics could mean that the country may grow old before it gets rich. The next decade will make or break it.

    As I said, it's telling how you base the value of democracy on how rich the rich are.
    It's probably one reason why you hate China so much.  They pretty much eliminated poverty instead of making the rich richer like we're doing here.
  • Reply 65 of 84
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    robaba said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Waiting for "The Chinese Media", aka bot farms, to downplay the following as well, "clearly driven by the political correctness of Sinophobia";

    https://uyghurtribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/UT-judgment-version-for-approval-by-GN-07.25-2.pdf






    H.R.6210 - Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6210

    It is amazing US Congress can pass an act without listing any verifiable evidence. This is democracy!

    https://uyghurtribunal.com/news/witness-after-witness-hundreds-reveal-the-atrocities-of-chinas-concentration-camps/

    Of course, it would be easier to verify if the PRC was an open society...
    So it is not verified yet. How could US Congress pass an Act that is not verified yet? 
    The UN has said they have credible reports:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/u-n-says-it-has-credible-reports-that-china-holds-million-uighurs-in-secret-camps-idUSKBN1KV1SU

    Confirming what an ex-guard who escaped said:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/04/china/xinjiang-detective-torture-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

    And number other reports:

    Genocide finding:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/09/asia/china-uyghurs-xinjiang-genocide-report-intl-hnk/index.html

    Organ harvesting:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646 

    https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9 

    Camps

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/u-n-says-it-has-credible-reports-that-china-holds-million-uighurs-in-secret-camps-idUSKBN1KV1SU

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50511063 

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/uighurs/ 

    ...there's so much smoke here it's not even a question of whether there's fire. China has an abysmal human rights record and if anything is only getting worse. The army of astroturfers tasked with muddying the waters will not make this go away.

    All Acts by the congress should link to the alleged facts for historical records and should bear responsibility for relying on fake facts to establish the Act. 
    How about this;

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-a-residential-school-system-in-china-is-stripping-tibetan-children-of/

    Almost 80 per cent of Tibetan children in China have been placed in a vast system of government-run boarding schools, where they are cut off from their families, languages and traditional culture, according to an analysis of official data by researchers at Tibet Action Institute.

    The U.S.-based NGO found more than 800,000 Tibetan children between the ages of 6 and 18 “are now housed in these state-run institutions.”

    “The colonial boarding school system in Tibet is a core element of the Chinese Communist Party’s systematic effort to co-opt, undermine, and ultimately eliminate Tibetan identity in an attempt to neutralize Tibetan resistance to Chinese rule,” the group said in a report published Tuesday.

    For years, Tibetans have been sounding the alarm over what they see as assimilationist policies from Beijing. Scholars agree that the implementation of such policies escalated in the wake of large-scale unrest in parts of Tibet in 2008 and the coming to power of Chinese President Xi Jinping in 2012. Spiking repression in Tibet has coincided with a crackdown in China’s neighbouring Xinjiang region in recent years, which has seen an estimated two million ethnic Uyghurs pass through a system of “re-education” or “de-radicalization” camps.

    The collective evidence is overwhelming that the PRC is engaged in widespread human rights violations, and yet here you and your Tankie pals are whinging about legislative process to distract. I'm guessing this distraction is the United Front Work Department's plan of action.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    That sure seems like solid journalism.


    What the world thinks of the PRC;

    https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/06/30/large-majorities-say-china-does-not-respect-the-personal-freedoms-of-its-people/

    Large Majorities Say China Does Not Respect the Personal Freedoms of Its People

    Unfavorable views of China also hover near historic highs in most of the 17 advanced economies surveyed


    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-china-watcher/2021/12/02/china-is-furious-about-bidens-democracy-summit-495283

    Hi China Watchers. ‘Tis the season for summits! Check your advent calendar: President JOE BIDEN’s two-day Summit for Democracy is just around the corner. This week’s newsletter dives into how China — uninvited — casts a shadow over the event. We’ll also unpack the dramas surrounding both the latest Taiwan codel and another high-profile U.S. corporate apology to Beijing.

    Let’s get to it. — Phelim

    Next week’s Summit for Democracy is Biden’s latest effort at coalition building against threats to what he calls the “international rules-based order.”

    And to China’s dismay, Taiwan has been invited to join representatives of 111 democratic countries (several with dubious democratic credentials) convening at the Dec. 9-10 summit in a demonstration of international resolve. Though unstated, the Biden administration's aim is to counter diplomatic, economic and military dangers posed by a rising authoritarian tide spearheaded by the Chinese and Russian governments.

    China is neither invited to the event nor listed on its agenda, but its focus on “individual and collective commitments, reforms, and initiatives to defend democracy and human rights at home and abroad” will likely produce new initiatives to support democratic states, including Taiwan and Lithuania, facing down Chinese military and economic coercion.

    “For Taiwan, this is a big deal … an incredible opportunity to interact with other nations on an equal footing and feel respected in an international arena, while brandishing its democratic credentials,” ANTHONY J. SAICH, director of the Ash Center for Democratic Governance and Innovation at Harvard’s Kennedy School, told China Watcher. “The benefit for [Lithuania] is simply to be seen in a meeting of like-minded nations and to be able to irritate China further by showing that they are still welcome in a big club, of which China is not a part.”


    and finally,

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/csis-trudeau-china-media-1.6270750

    As Canada's spy agency warns that China's efforts to distort the news and influence media outlets in Canada "have become normalized," critics are renewing calls for Ottawa to take a far tougher approach to foreign media interference.

    The warning is contained in briefing documents drafted for Canadian Security Intelligence Service Director David Vigneault in preparation for a meeting he had with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau earlier this year.

    That meeting focused on the rise of foreign interference in Canada — something CSIS says has become "more sophisticated, frequent, and insidious."

    One way foreign states — including the People's Republic of China (PRC) — try to exert pressure on other countries is through media outlets, say the documents, obtained through an access to information request.

    "In particular, PRC media influence activities in Canada have become normalized," it reads.

    "Chinese-language media outlets operating in Canada and members of the Chinese-Canadian community are primary targets of PRC-directed foreign influenced activities."


    LOL Do you know US is called a melting pot? 
    ...and your point is what exactly?
    I waited for you to figure out for yourself. You failed! My point is millions of millions people emigrated to US over last several hundred years. Except the Anglo-Saxons, they gave up their language, culture. No school teaches language as needed. Instead foreign student coming to US has to pass the TOEFL test. Do you know TOEFL? LOL But nobody called this as genocide. Instead people praised US as a melting pot. That means the languages and cultures are melted away. So what the fuck US politicians call what CCP did in Xinjiang and Tibet as genocide? 
    Wow, I will be sure to point that out to my Spanish speaking friends who’s grandparents emigrated from Mexico.  You DO know that “The melting pot” is just a metaphor created by sociologists, and is considered by modern scholars to be highly problematic (ie not representative of actual human experience)?
    Or so the far right Nationalists claim...  But they base their claims on fear, hate and lies rather than reality.

  • Reply 66 of 84
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    robaba said:
    robaba said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    Waiting for "The Chinese Media", aka bot farms, to downplay the following as well, "clearly driven by the political correctness of Sinophobia";

    https://uyghurtribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/UT-judgment-version-for-approval-by-GN-07.25-2.pdf






    H.R.6210 - Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6210

    It is amazing US Congress can pass an act without listing any verifiable evidence. This is democracy!

     :smiley:  :smiley:  :smiley: 

    Not even pretending that distraction isn't the objective.  Wear your bias and subversion with pride comrade!
    This Act has the same spirit of Chinese Exclusion Act that US Congress passed in 1870. That Act is also passed without listing any verifiable evidence. US is representing the bad part of democracy, phony democracy that a law can be passed by a majority vote without evidence. 
    Wow-that’s quite a claim, since the Chinese Exclusion Act is perhaps the high water mark for anti Chinese (and Japanese, and Thai, and Vietnamese, etc since they were often lumped under the same rubric). Do you have any direct evidence from the bill itself that would demonstrate the same or similar levels of blatant racism?  I’ve looked but apparently I’m not seeing what you are seeing.
    I saw PBS documentary of Chinese Exclusion Act. The Workers Party accused Chinese immigrants of stealing their jobs. Congress passed the Act by saying allowing Chinese immigrants would let Eastern culture to destroy Western culture. How do you prove this cultural argument? But this is the reason being used in Congress. 
    Ok, ok, you saw a documentary on the CEA but have you actually red it yourself?  How about read any of the period propaganda pieces by local wealthy (Caucasian) men who had a vested interest in ruling up racial animosity in order to force the divestiture of property owned by SEAsian immigrants in California, Washington and portions of Oregon?  

    The rest of your statement makes no sense.  I just pointed out in the post you replied to how racist the CEA was (studied it for years in fact), can you point to anything in in H.R. 6210–Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act that is even remotely racist, let alone as racist as the cultural/racial assumptions ascribed to the “yellow peril” in the CEA?  ‘Cause just saying it doesn’t make it true.



    The hate of China and Chinese is racist -- the same kind of racism that earlier immigrants to America have always shown towards the immigrants (Italian, Irish, Slovak, Mexican, etc.) who built this nation into an industrial giant.  The excuses and rationalizations for it keep changing but still don't really matter.
  • Reply 67 of 84
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    robaba said:
    For those who don’t have the time to check, these are the finding of facts that are a attached to HR 6210:

    Congress finds the following:

    (1) In the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of China, the Government of the People’s Republic of China has, since 2017, arbitrarily detained as many as 1.8 million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and members of other Muslim minority groups in a system of extrajudicial mass internment camps, and has subjected detainees to forced labor, torture, political indoctrination, and other severe human rights abuses.

    (2) Forced labor exists within the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region’s system of mass internment camps, and throughout the region, and is confirmed by the testimony of former camp detainees, satellite imagery, and official leaked documents from the Government of the People’s Republic of China as part of a targeted campaign of repression of Muslim ethnic minorities.

    (3) In addition to reports from researchers and civil society groups documenting evidence that many factories and other suppliers in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are exploiting forced labor, the Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security on July 22, 2020, added eleven entities to the entity list after determining the entities had been “implicated in human rights violations and abuses in the implementation of China’s campaign of repression, mass arbitrary detention, forced labor and high-technology surveillance against Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and other members of Muslim minority groups in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region”. 

    (4) Audits and efforts to vet products and supply chains in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are unreliable due to the extent forced labor has been integrated into the regional economy, the mixing of involuntary labor with voluntary labor, the inability of witnesses to speak freely about working conditions given government surveillance and coercion, and the incentive of government officials to conceal government-sponsored forced labor. 

    (5) The Department of State’s June 2019 Trafficking in Persons Report found that “Authorities offer subsidies incentivizing Chinese companies to open factories in close proximity to the internment camps, and local governments receive additional funds for each inmate forced to work in these sites at a fraction of minimum wage or without any compensation.”.

    (6) U.S. Customs and Border Protection has issued eight “Withhold Release Orders” on certain garments, hair products, cotton, processed cotton, and computer parts suspected to be produced with prison or forced labor in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. 

    (7) In its 2019 Annual Report, the Congressional-Executive Commission on China (CECC) found that products reportedly produced with forced labor by current and former mass internment camp detainees included textiles, electronics, food products, shoes, tea, and handicrafts.

    (8) Section 307 of the Tariff Act of 1930 (19 U.S.C. 1307) states that it is illegal to import into the United States “goods, wares, articles, and merchandise mined, produced, or manufactured wholly or in part” by forced labor. Such merchandise is subject to exclusion or seizure and may lead to criminal investigation of the importer.

    (9) The policies of the Government of the People’s Republic of China are in contravention of international human rights instruments signed by that government, including—

    (A) the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which the People’s Republic of China has signed but not yet ratified;

    (B) the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights, ratified by the People’s Republic of China in 2001; and

    (C) the United Nations Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, Especially Women and Children (Palermo Protocol), to which the People’s Republic of China has been a state party since February 2010.



    So let's see:
    We spend 20 years dominating, oppressing and murdering Muslims in that region because we fear they are or will be terrorists.
    China in that same region stops the things that spawn terrorists and terrorism  -- and we condemn it with bullshit claims of slavery, concentration camps, etc...

    Let's compare the two approaches to suppressing terrorists and terrorism:
    How many Muslims have we killed in that region?  (Including the most recent 7 children)?  We don't know. never bothered to count their dead -- but it's likely in the tens if not hundreds of thousands.  And now we are starving those people after decimating their country -- withholding their money from them while their country crumbles and they starve.
    How many has China killed?  Answer:  None.

    Of the two, I think we are the ones who need to be criticized and, perhaps, an international court on war crimes and our attempted genocide there.

    edited December 2021
  • Reply 68 of 84
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.

    China's growth is only contracting in relative terms, in actual terms it is not only expanding but expanding at over triple what ours is doing and will soon overtake us as the world's leading economy -- which is the real reason for the hate of the China Haters.
    https://www.jcer.or.jp/english/china-to-become-the-worlds-largest-economy-in-2033

    Oh, it looks like China is seeing yet another delay in besting the U.S. economy. Meanwhile, Xi Jinping seems intent on creating more opposing to the PRC in the developed world. That doesn't bode well for continued strong growth as the West extricates itself from China's authoritarianism.
    edited December 2021
  • Reply 69 of 84
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.

    China's growth is only contracting in relative terms, in actual terms it is not only expanding but expanding at over triple what ours is doing and will soon overtake us as the world's leading economy -- which is the real reason for the hate of the China Haters.
    https://www.jcer.or.jp/english/china-to-become-the-worlds-largest-economy-in-2033

    Oh, it looks like China is seeing yet another delay in besting the U.S. economy. Meanwhile, Xi Jinping seems intent on creating more opposing to the PRC in the developed world. That doesn't bode well for continued strong growth as the West extricates itself from China's authoritarianism.

    LOL... No, they haven't slowed down.  It's us who crashed our economy and built up trillions of dollars of debt while China got back to work and school quickly and safely.

    And, as Americans die under the murderous authoritarianism of such entities as BigPharma and the Gun Lobby, the Chinese people thrive and live their best lives.   We tout freedom and democracy -- but our view of spreading freedom and democracy seems to be:

    edited December 2021
  • Reply 70 of 84
    robaba said:
    For those who don’t have the time to check, these are the finding of facts that are a attached to HR 6210:

    Congress finds the following:

    (1) In the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of China, the Government of the People’s Republic of China has, since 2017, arbitrarily detained as many as 1.8 million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and members of other Muslim minority groups in a system of extrajudicial mass internment camps, and has subjected detainees to forced labor, torture, political indoctrination, and other severe human rights abuses.

    (2) Forced labor exists within the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region’s system of mass internment camps, and throughout the region, and is confirmed by the testimony of former camp detainees, satellite imagery, and official leaked documents from the Government of the People’s Republic of China as part of a targeted campaign of repression of Muslim ethnic minorities.

    (3) In addition to reports from researchers and civil society groups documenting evidence that many factories and other suppliers in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are exploiting forced labor, the Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security on July 22, 2020, added eleven entities to the entity list after determining the entities had been “implicated in human rights violations and abuses in the implementation of China’s campaign of repression, mass arbitrary detention, forced labor and high-technology surveillance against Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and other members of Muslim minority groups in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region”. 

    (4) Audits and efforts to vet products and supply chains in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are unreliable due to the extent forced labor has been integrated into the regional economy, the mixing of involuntary labor with voluntary labor, the inability of witnesses to speak freely about working conditions given government surveillance and coercion, and the incentive of government officials to conceal government-sponsored forced labor. 

    (5) The Department of State’s June 2019 Trafficking in Persons Report found that “Authorities offer subsidies incentivizing Chinese companies to open factories in close proximity to the internment camps, and local governments receive additional funds for each inmate forced to work in these sites at a fraction of minimum wage or without any compensation.”.

    (6) U.S. Customs and Border Protection has issued eight “Withhold Release Orders” on certain garments, hair products, cotton, processed cotton, and computer parts suspected to be produced with prison or forced labor in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. 

    (7) In its 2019 Annual Report, the Congressional-Executive Commission on China (CECC) found that products reportedly produced with forced labor by current and former mass internment camp detainees included textiles, electronics, food products, shoes, tea, and handicrafts.

    (8) Section 307 of the Tariff Act of 1930 (19 U.S.C. 1307) states that it is illegal to import into the United States “goods, wares, articles, and merchandise mined, produced, or manufactured wholly or in part” by forced labor. Such merchandise is subject to exclusion or seizure and may lead to criminal investigation of the importer.

    (9) The policies of the Government of the People’s Republic of China are in contravention of international human rights instruments signed by that government, including—

    (A) the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which the People’s Republic of China has signed but not yet ratified;

    (B) the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights, ratified by the People’s Republic of China in 2001; and

    (C) the United Nations Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, Especially Women and Children (Palermo Protocol), to which the People’s Republic of China has been a state party since February 2010.


    Xinjiang has over ten million Uyghurs, how China arbitrarily detain 1.8 million of them? If the truth is not determined this Congress Act is only based on allegations. 
    (2) Forced labor exists within the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region’s system of mass internment camps,
    If these people were undergoing job training, they need to perform labor as training. So you see, using the word forced is only an allegation not the truth. 
    (4) Audits and efforts to vet products and supply chains in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are unreliable due to the extent forced labor has been integrated into the regional economy, 
    So there is no audits. And US Congress enacted an Act without verified fact. This is what I said in the beginning. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 71 of 84
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.

    China's growth is only contracting in relative terms, in actual terms it is not only expanding but expanding at over triple what ours is doing and will soon overtake us as the world's leading economy -- which is the real reason for the hate of the China Haters.
    https://www.jcer.or.jp/english/china-to-become-the-worlds-largest-economy-in-2033

    Oh, it looks like China is seeing yet another delay in besting the U.S. economy. Meanwhile, Xi Jinping seems intent on creating more opposing to the PRC in the developed world. That doesn't bode well for continued strong growth as the West extricates itself from China's authoritarianism.

    LOL... No, they haven't slowed down.  It's us who crashed our economy and built up trillions of dollars of debt while China got back to work and school quickly and safely.

    And, as Americans die under the murderous authoritarianism of such entities as BigPharma and the Gun Lobby, the Chinese people thrive and live their best lives.   We tout freedom and democracy -- but our view of spreading freedom and democracy seems to be:

    Uh, China is still experiencing lockdowns, and with Omicron and Delta, the pandemic is ongoing for everyone. Not much of a win for China, and we already have new antivirals on the way, and plentiful MRNA vaccines that can be quickly evolved to meet new variants. China, not so much.  Credit to BigPharma for creating these as rapidly as they did.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-us-has-ordered-enough-pfizer-anti-viral-pills-treat-10-million-americans-2021-12-14/

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/pfizers-covid-19-antiviral-proves-almost-90-effective-in-latest-trial-data-as-u-s-passes-50-million-confirmed-cases-of-the-illness-11639495742


  • Reply 72 of 84
    robaba said:
    For those who don’t have the time to check, these are the finding of facts that are a attached to HR 6210:

    Congress finds the following:

    (1) In the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of China, the Government of the People’s Republic of China has, since 2017, arbitrarily detained as many as 1.8 million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and members of other Muslim minority groups in a system of extrajudicial mass internment camps, and has subjected detainees to forced labor, torture, political indoctrination, and other severe human rights abuses.

    (2) Forced labor exists within the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region’s system of mass internment camps, and throughout the region, and is confirmed by the testimony of former camp detainees, satellite imagery, and official leaked documents from the Government of the People’s Republic of China as part of a targeted campaign of repression of Muslim ethnic minorities.

    (3) In addition to reports from researchers and civil society groups documenting evidence that many factories and other suppliers in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are exploiting forced labor, the Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security on July 22, 2020, added eleven entities to the entity list after determining the entities had been “implicated in human rights violations and abuses in the implementation of China’s campaign of repression, mass arbitrary detention, forced labor and high-technology surveillance against Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and other members of Muslim minority groups in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region”. 

    (4) Audits and efforts to vet products and supply chains in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region are unreliable due to the extent forced labor has been integrated into the regional economy, the mixing of involuntary labor with voluntary labor, the inability of witnesses to speak freely about working conditions given government surveillance and coercion, and the incentive of government officials to conceal government-sponsored forced labor. 

    (5) The Department of State’s June 2019 Trafficking in Persons Report found that “Authorities offer subsidies incentivizing Chinese companies to open factories in close proximity to the internment camps, and local governments receive additional funds for each inmate forced to work in these sites at a fraction of minimum wage or without any compensation.”.

    (6) U.S. Customs and Border Protection has issued eight “Withhold Release Orders” on certain garments, hair products, cotton, processed cotton, and computer parts suspected to be produced with prison or forced labor in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. 

    (7) In its 2019 Annual Report, the Congressional-Executive Commission on China (CECC) found that products reportedly produced with forced labor by current and former mass internment camp detainees included textiles, electronics, food products, shoes, tea, and handicrafts.

    (8) Section 307 of the Tariff Act of 1930 (19 U.S.C. 1307) states that it is illegal to import into the United States “goods, wares, articles, and merchandise mined, produced, or manufactured wholly or in part” by forced labor. Such merchandise is subject to exclusion or seizure and may lead to criminal investigation of the importer.

    (9) The policies of the Government of the People’s Republic of China are in contravention of international human rights instruments signed by that government, including—

    (A) the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which the People’s Republic of China has signed but not yet ratified;

    (B) the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights, ratified by the People’s Republic of China in 2001; and

    (C) the United Nations Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, Especially Women and Children (Palermo Protocol), to which the People’s Republic of China has been a state party since February 2010.



    So let's see:
    We spend 20 years dominating, oppressing and murdering Muslims in that region because we fear they are or will be terrorists.
    China in that same region stops the things that spawn terrorists and terrorism  -- and we condemn it with bullshit claims of slavery, concentration camps, etc...

    Let's compare the two approaches to suppressing terrorists and terrorism:
    How many Muslims have we killed in that region?  (Including the most recent 7 children)?  We don't know. never bothered to count their dead -- but it's likely in the tens if not hundreds of thousands.  And now we are starving those people after decimating their country -- withholding their money from them while their country crumbles and they starve.
    How many has China killed?  Answer:  None.

    Of the two, I think we are the ones who need to be criticized and, perhaps, an international court on war crimes and our attempted genocide there.

    It is funny that China has not killed innocent Uyghurs , yet the five-eye nations are trying all they can to prevent China from killing one. Why put so high human right standard on China and turning a blind eye on itself? Is the rooted on the difference in politics? 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 73 of 84
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.

    China's growth is only contracting in relative terms, in actual terms it is not only expanding but expanding at over triple what ours is doing and will soon overtake us as the world's leading economy -- which is the real reason for the hate of the China Haters.
    https://www.jcer.or.jp/english/china-to-become-the-worlds-largest-economy-in-2033

    Oh, it looks like China is seeing yet another delay in besting the U.S. economy. Meanwhile, Xi Jinping seems intent on creating more opposing to the PRC in the developed world. That doesn't bode well for continued strong growth as the West extricates itself from China's authoritarianism.

    LOL... No, they haven't slowed down.  It's us who crashed our economy and built up trillions of dollars of debt while China got back to work and school quickly and safely.

    And, as Americans die under the murderous authoritarianism of such entities as BigPharma and the Gun Lobby, the Chinese people thrive and live their best lives.   We tout freedom and democracy -- but our view of spreading freedom and democracy seems to be:

    Uh, China is still experiencing lockdowns, and with Omicron and Delta, the pandemic is ongoing for everyone. Not much of a win for China, and we already have new antivirals on the way, and plentiful MRNA vaccines that can be quickly evolved to meet new variants. China, not so much.  Credit to BigPharma for creating these as rapidly as they did.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-us-has-ordered-enough-pfizer-anti-viral-pills-treat-10-million-americans-2021-12-14/

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/pfizers-covid-19-antiviral-proves-almost-90-effective-in-latest-trial-data-as-u-s-passes-50-million-confirmed-cases-of-the-illness-11639495742


    Don't worry about China. China can wait until the whole world eliminated Covid-19. Then China can lift all the restrictions. China only has 1,460 people carrying the virus now. US active cases is 10,075,896.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 74 of 84
    robabarobaba Posts: 228member
    Enough fun—time to ignore the trolls propagandists 
  • Reply 75 of 84
    robaba said:
    Enough fun—time to ignore the trolls propagandists 
    I got it. People disagreeing with you and exposing your fallacy then you call them troll. 
  • Reply 76 of 84
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    robaba said:
    Enough fun—time to ignore the trolls propagandists 
    I got it. People disagreeing with you and exposing your fallacy then you call them troll. 
    You are a propagandist.

    Whether you work for the United Front Work Department is the unknown. 
  • Reply 77 of 84
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.

    China's growth is only contracting in relative terms, in actual terms it is not only expanding but expanding at over triple what ours is doing and will soon overtake us as the world's leading economy -- which is the real reason for the hate of the China Haters.
    https://www.jcer.or.jp/english/china-to-become-the-worlds-largest-economy-in-2033

    Oh, it looks like China is seeing yet another delay in besting the U.S. economy. Meanwhile, Xi Jinping seems intent on creating more opposing to the PRC in the developed world. That doesn't bode well for continued strong growth as the West extricates itself from China's authoritarianism.

    LOL... No, they haven't slowed down.  It's us who crashed our economy and built up trillions of dollars of debt while China got back to work and school quickly and safely.

    And, as Americans die under the murderous authoritarianism of such entities as BigPharma and the Gun Lobby, the Chinese people thrive and live their best lives.   We tout freedom and democracy -- but our view of spreading freedom and democracy seems to be:

    Uh, China is still experiencing lockdowns, and with Omicron and Delta, the pandemic is ongoing for everyone. Not much of a win for China, and we already have new antivirals on the way, and plentiful MRNA vaccines that can be quickly evolved to meet new variants. China, not so much.  Credit to BigPharma for creating these as rapidly as they did.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-us-has-ordered-enough-pfizer-anti-viral-pills-treat-10-million-americans-2021-12-14/

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/pfizers-covid-19-antiviral-proves-almost-90-effective-in-latest-trial-data-as-u-s-passes-50-million-confirmed-cases-of-the-illness-11639495742



    Nice try -- but unlike here, after the first couple months, China has always had the virus under control and the only slow down in their economy had originated from western recessions caused by inept responses to the virus.
    They also have a higher vaccination rate.
  • Reply 78 of 84
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    robaba said:
    Enough fun—time to ignore the trolls propagandists 

    You can start with yourself.
    When you stop spreading your propaganda then responsible people won't have to waste their time responding to the bull.
    edited December 2021
  • Reply 79 of 84
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.

    China's growth is only contracting in relative terms, in actual terms it is not only expanding but expanding at over triple what ours is doing and will soon overtake us as the world's leading economy -- which is the real reason for the hate of the China Haters.
    https://www.jcer.or.jp/english/china-to-become-the-worlds-largest-economy-in-2033

    Oh, it looks like China is seeing yet another delay in besting the U.S. economy. Meanwhile, Xi Jinping seems intent on creating more opposing to the PRC in the developed world. That doesn't bode well for continued strong growth as the West extricates itself from China's authoritarianism.

    LOL... No, they haven't slowed down.  It's us who crashed our economy and built up trillions of dollars of debt while China got back to work and school quickly and safely.

    And, as Americans die under the murderous authoritarianism of such entities as BigPharma and the Gun Lobby, the Chinese people thrive and live their best lives.   We tout freedom and democracy -- but our view of spreading freedom and democracy seems to be:

    Uh, China is still experiencing lockdowns, and with Omicron and Delta, the pandemic is ongoing for everyone. Not much of a win for China, and we already have new antivirals on the way, and plentiful MRNA vaccines that can be quickly evolved to meet new variants. China, not so much.  Credit to BigPharma for creating these as rapidly as they did.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-us-has-ordered-enough-pfizer-anti-viral-pills-treat-10-million-americans-2021-12-14/

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/pfizers-covid-19-antiviral-proves-almost-90-effective-in-latest-trial-data-as-u-s-passes-50-million-confirmed-cases-of-the-illness-11639495742



    Nice try -- but unlike here, after the first couple months, China has always had the virus under control and the only slow down in their economy had originated from western recessions caused by inept responses to the virus.
    They also have a higher vaccination rate.
    Sure, uh huh.

    LOL!

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-covid-19-lockdowns-starting-to-sting-11639569604
  • Reply 80 of 84
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
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    crowley said:
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    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.

    China's growth is only contracting in relative terms, in actual terms it is not only expanding but expanding at over triple what ours is doing and will soon overtake us as the world's leading economy -- which is the real reason for the hate of the China Haters.
    https://www.jcer.or.jp/english/china-to-become-the-worlds-largest-economy-in-2033

    Oh, it looks like China is seeing yet another delay in besting the U.S. economy. Meanwhile, Xi Jinping seems intent on creating more opposing to the PRC in the developed world. That doesn't bode well for continued strong growth as the West extricates itself from China's authoritarianism.

    LOL... No, they haven't slowed down.  It's us who crashed our economy and built up trillions of dollars of debt while China got back to work and school quickly and safely.

    And, as Americans die under the murderous authoritarianism of such entities as BigPharma and the Gun Lobby, the Chinese people thrive and live their best lives.   We tout freedom and democracy -- but our view of spreading freedom and democracy seems to be:

    Uh, China is still experiencing lockdowns, and with Omicron and Delta, the pandemic is ongoing for everyone. Not much of a win for China, and we already have new antivirals on the way, and plentiful MRNA vaccines that can be quickly evolved to meet new variants. China, not so much.  Credit to BigPharma for creating these as rapidly as they did.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-us-has-ordered-enough-pfizer-anti-viral-pills-treat-10-million-americans-2021-12-14/

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/pfizers-covid-19-antiviral-proves-almost-90-effective-in-latest-trial-data-as-u-s-passes-50-million-confirmed-cases-of-the-illness-11639495742



    Nice try -- but unlike here, after the first couple months, China has always had the virus under control and the only slow down in their economy had originated from western recessions caused by inept responses to the virus.
    They also have a higher vaccination rate.
    Sure, uh huh.

    LOL!

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-covid-19-lockdowns-starting-to-sting-11639569604

    Sorry, false equivalencies are still false.  
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