DJI among 8 Chinese groups heading onto U.S. investment blacklist

2456

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 103
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions.

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    US government is drawing China as a target and keeps throwing darts at it. It hopes it can hit the red eye with one target. 

    Yes, the U.S. " is drawing China as a target and keeps throwing darts at it" -- but not in hopes that one will stick.  They adopted the FauxNews/Right Wing media method of repeating an allegation over and over then getting others to repeat it.  Then, once their target audience starts assuming the lie is true they start building their house of cards of multiple lies on top of the original lie (which is usually some form of "This is the bad guy").   It's the new, modern method of brain washing the masses.

    But its also important to realize that every one of the lies has some tiny grain of truth in it so they can claim its "factual".   It's still a lie.  But they use that tiny grain of truth because they're too smart to get caught speaking a complete falsehood containing not even a grain of truth -- because they would then have no means to fall back on their standard outrage when accused of lying.

    It's a very effective weapon in their propaganda wars that the world has not yet developed an effective counter strategy against and instead typically falls back on arguing against the false claims -- which only gives them more media coverage -- at which point the lies become stronger and their target more confused.

    China has started pushing back against it -- calling bull to the bull.  That pisses off the liars to no end.  But shining the light of truth is the only real defense against lies, slanders and defamations.
    You make me laugh.

    The entire Western World is getting tired of China's attempt to change the rules of order to allow the PRC's brand of "authoritarianism".

    https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/06/30/large-majorities-say-china-does-not-respect-the-personal-freedoms-of-its-people/

    So, no, not just the right wing fascists, but most everyone.

    Keep telling yourself that.  if you repeat it enough times it will become true!
  • Reply 22 of 103
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership


    U.S. police have been profiling minorities for generations.  Why no outrage from the China Haters?
    waveparticle
  • Reply 23 of 103
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.
    You
    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    It's about DJI and wacky allegations but you threw Huawei in there with similar wacky allegations with TWO links to the exact same source! Why? Did you think it would make your argument stronger?

    It didn't because the ''hard evidence' is nowhere to be found in either one!

    Make an effort to understand: Huawei is not China anymore than Google is the US.

    That's true -- but irrelevant to the China Haters -- they just need something, anything (true, untrue, half-true -- whatever) to justify their hate.
  • Reply 24 of 103
    sbdude said:
    mac_dog said:
    And turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine. Hypocrisy at its finest. 

    You mean firing rockets into residential areas filled with innocent people and harboring terrorist organizations such as Hamas?

    Maybe if Israel would stop colonizing Palestinian territory and oppressing and killing their people the rockets wouldn't be necessary.
  • Reply 25 of 103
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    This is a distortion of fact. The fact is China is using surveillance at ALL people for security only. You extract Uyghurs out for your propaganda. 
    Perhaps it is simply that minorities are extracted to "reeducation" camps against their will, just as the evidence shows.

    It would be interesting to compare how many minorities have been arrested in China vs the U.S. -- or how many in the U.S. never made it to arrest and were just executed where they stood (or laid -- face down and in handcuffs with 5 cops on top of the them).

    Here, we let domestic terrorists breed and grow while we kill or imprison the minorities for, say, the crime of having an air freshener hanging from their mirror.  China seems to do the opposite -- and that terrifies the cult of China Haters.
  • Reply 26 of 103
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,328member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    This is a distortion of fact. The fact is China is using surveillance at ALL people for security only. You extract Uyghurs out for your propaganda. 
    Perhaps it is simply that minorities are extracted to "reeducation" camps against their will, just as the evidence shows.

    It would be interesting to compare how many minorities have been arrested in China vs the U.S. -- or how many in the U.S. never made it to arrest and were just executed where they stood (or laid -- face down and in handcuffs with 5 cops on top of the them).

    Here, we let domestic terrorists breed and grow while we kill or imprison the minorities for, say, the crime of having an air freshener hanging from their mirror.  China seems to do the opposite -- and that terrifies the cult of China Haters.
    LOL!

    We really don't have much comparison vs the PRC given the lack of independent journalism in China, so your whataboutism falls flat.

    So, let's talk about involuntary organ harvesting of Falun Gong prisoners by the Chinese State...

    Organ transplantation in China has taken place since the 1960s, and is one of the largest organ transplantprogrammes in the world, peaking at over 13,000 liver and kidney transplants a year in 2004.[2] Involuntary organ harvesting[3][4][5] is illegal under Chinese law; though, under a 1984 regulation, it became legal to remove organs from executed criminals with the prior consent of the criminal or permission of relatives. Growing concerns about possible ethical abuses arising from coerced consent and corruption led medical groups and human rights organizations, by the 1990s, to condemn the practice.[6] These concerns resurfaced in 2001, when a Chinese asylum-seeking doctor testified that he had taken part in organ extraction operations.[7]

    In 2006, allegations emerged that many Falun Gong practitioners had been killed to supply China's organ transplant industry.[8][9] An initial investigation stated "the source of 41,500 transplants for the six year period 2000 to 2005 is unexplained" and concluded that "there has been and continues today to be large scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners".[8]

    In December 2005, China's Deputy Health Minister acknowledged that the practice of removing organs from executed prisoners for transplants was widespread.[10] In 2007, China issued regulations banning the commercial trading of organs,[11] and the Chinese Medical Associationagreed that the organs of prisoners should not be used for transplantation, except for members of the immediate family of the deceased.[12] In 2008, a liver-transplant registry system was established in Shanghai, along with a nationwide proposal to incorporate information on individual driving permits for those wishing to donate their organs.[13]

    Despite these initiatives, China Daily reported in August 2009 that approximately 65% of transplanted organs still came from death row prisoners. The condemned prisoners have been described as "not a proper source for organ transplants" by Vice-Health Minister Huang Jiefu,[14] and in March 2010, he announced the trial of China's first organ donation program starting after death, jointly run by the Red Cross Society and the Ministry of Health, in 10 pilot regions. In 2013, Huang Jiefu altered his position on utilizing prisoners' organs, stating that death row prisoners should be allowed to donate organs and should be integrated into the new computer-based organ allocation system.[15] In 2018 and 2019, media investigations and academic analysis into these allegations increased.[16][17][18]


    Yeah, just wonderful people, those Chinese Communists...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 103
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    This is a distortion of fact. The fact is China is using surveillance at ALL people for security only. You extract Uyghurs out for your propaganda. 
    Perhaps it is simply that minorities are extracted to "reeducation" camps against their will, just as the evidence shows.

    It would be interesting to compare how many minorities have been arrested in China vs the U.S. -- or how many in the U.S. never made it to arrest and were just executed where they stood (or laid -- face down and in handcuffs with 5 cops on top of the them).

    Here, we let domestic terrorists breed and grow while we kill or imprison the minorities for, say, the crime of having an air freshener hanging from their mirror.  China seems to do the opposite -- and that terrifies the cult of China Haters.
    LOL!

    We really don't have much comparison vs the PRC given the lack of independent journalism in China, so your whataboutism falls flat.

    So, let's talk about involuntary organ harvesting of Falun Gong prisoners by the Chinese State...

    Organ transplantation in China has taken place since the 1960s, and is one of the largest organ transplantprogrammes in the world, peaking at over 13,000 liver and kidney transplants a year in 2004.[2] Involuntary organ harvesting[3][4][5] is illegal under Chinese law; though, under a 1984 regulation, it became legal to remove organs from executed criminals with the prior consent of the criminal or permission of relatives. Growing concerns about possible ethical abuses arising from coerced consent and corruption led medical groups and human rights organizations, by the 1990s, to condemn the practice.[6] These concerns resurfaced in 2001, when a Chinese asylum-seeking doctor testified that he had taken part in organ extraction operations.[7]

    In 2006, allegations emerged that many Falun Gong practitioners had been killed to supply China's organ transplant industry.[8][9] An initial investigation stated "the source of 41,500 transplants for the six year period 2000 to 2005 is unexplained" and concluded that "there has been and continues today to be large scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners".[8]

    In December 2005, China's Deputy Health Minister acknowledged that the practice of removing organs from executed prisoners for transplants was widespread.[10] In 2007, China issued regulations banning the commercial trading of organs,[11] and the Chinese Medical Associationagreed that the organs of prisoners should not be used for transplantation, except for members of the immediate family of the deceased.[12] In 2008, a liver-transplant registry system was established in Shanghai, along with a nationwide proposal to incorporate information on individual driving permits for those wishing to donate their organs.[13]

    Despite these initiatives, China Daily reported in August 2009 that approximately 65% of transplanted organs still came from death row prisoners. The condemned prisoners have been described as "not a proper source for organ transplants" by Vice-Health Minister Huang Jiefu,[14] and in March 2010, he announced the trial of China's first organ donation program starting after death, jointly run by the Red Cross Society and the Ministry of Health, in 10 pilot regions. In 2013, Huang Jiefu altered his position on utilizing prisoners' organs, stating that death row prisoners should be allowed to donate organs and should be integrated into the new computer-based organ allocation system.[15] In 2018 and 2019, media investigations and academic analysis into these allegations increased.[16][17][18]


    Yeah, just wonderful people, those Chinese Communists...
    China was just copying organ harvesting from the west. In the west a systematic way of harvesting organs have long been setup. China has been copying the west in the last forty years. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 28 of 103
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,328member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    This is a distortion of fact. The fact is China is using surveillance at ALL people for security only. You extract Uyghurs out for your propaganda. 
    Perhaps it is simply that minorities are extracted to "reeducation" camps against their will, just as the evidence shows.

    It would be interesting to compare how many minorities have been arrested in China vs the U.S. -- or how many in the U.S. never made it to arrest and were just executed where they stood (or laid -- face down and in handcuffs with 5 cops on top of the them).

    Here, we let domestic terrorists breed and grow while we kill or imprison the minorities for, say, the crime of having an air freshener hanging from their mirror.  China seems to do the opposite -- and that terrifies the cult of China Haters.
    LOL!

    We really don't have much comparison vs the PRC given the lack of independent journalism in China, so your whataboutism falls flat.

    So, let's talk about involuntary organ harvesting of Falun Gong prisoners by the Chinese State...

    Organ transplantation in China has taken place since the 1960s, and is one of the largest organ transplantprogrammes in the world, peaking at over 13,000 liver and kidney transplants a year in 2004.[2] Involuntary organ harvesting[3][4][5] is illegal under Chinese law; though, under a 1984 regulation, it became legal to remove organs from executed criminals with the prior consent of the criminal or permission of relatives. Growing concerns about possible ethical abuses arising from coerced consent and corruption led medical groups and human rights organizations, by the 1990s, to condemn the practice.[6] These concerns resurfaced in 2001, when a Chinese asylum-seeking doctor testified that he had taken part in organ extraction operations.[7]

    In 2006, allegations emerged that many Falun Gong practitioners had been killed to supply China's organ transplant industry.[8][9] An initial investigation stated "the source of 41,500 transplants for the six year period 2000 to 2005 is unexplained" and concluded that "there has been and continues today to be large scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners".[8]

    In December 2005, China's Deputy Health Minister acknowledged that the practice of removing organs from executed prisoners for transplants was widespread.[10] In 2007, China issued regulations banning the commercial trading of organs,[11] and the Chinese Medical Associationagreed that the organs of prisoners should not be used for transplantation, except for members of the immediate family of the deceased.[12] In 2008, a liver-transplant registry system was established in Shanghai, along with a nationwide proposal to incorporate information on individual driving permits for those wishing to donate their organs.[13]

    Despite these initiatives, China Daily reported in August 2009 that approximately 65% of transplanted organs still came from death row prisoners. The condemned prisoners have been described as "not a proper source for organ transplants" by Vice-Health Minister Huang Jiefu,[14] and in March 2010, he announced the trial of China's first organ donation program starting after death, jointly run by the Red Cross Society and the Ministry of Health, in 10 pilot regions. In 2013, Huang Jiefu altered his position on utilizing prisoners' organs, stating that death row prisoners should be allowed to donate organs and should be integrated into the new computer-based organ allocation system.[15] In 2018 and 2019, media investigations and academic analysis into these allegations increased.[16][17][18]


    Yeah, just wonderful people, those Chinese Communists...
    China was just copying organ harvesting from the west. In the west a systematic way of harvesting organs have long been setup. China has been copying the west in the last forty years. 
    Cough,  "bullshit"...
    edited December 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 103
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    This is a distortion of fact. The fact is China is using surveillance at ALL people for security only. You extract Uyghurs out for your propaganda. 
    Perhaps it is simply that minorities are extracted to "reeducation" camps against their will, just as the evidence shows.

    It would be interesting to compare how many minorities have been arrested in China vs the U.S. -- or how many in the U.S. never made it to arrest and were just executed where they stood (or laid -- face down and in handcuffs with 5 cops on top of the them).

    Here, we let domestic terrorists breed and grow while we kill or imprison the minorities for, say, the crime of having an air freshener hanging from their mirror.  China seems to do the opposite -- and that terrifies the cult of China Haters.
    LOL!

    We really don't have much comparison vs the PRC given the lack of independent journalism in China, so your whataboutism falls flat.

    So, let's talk about involuntary organ harvesting of Falun Gong prisoners by the Chinese State...

    Organ transplantation in China has taken place since the 1960s, and is one of the largest organ transplantprogrammes in the world, peaking at over 13,000 liver and kidney transplants a year in 2004.[2] Involuntary organ harvesting[3][4][5] is illegal under Chinese law; though, under a 1984 regulation, it became legal to remove organs from executed criminals with the prior consent of the criminal or permission of relatives. Growing concerns about possible ethical abuses arising from coerced consent and corruption led medical groups and human rights organizations, by the 1990s, to condemn the practice.[6] These concerns resurfaced in 2001, when a Chinese asylum-seeking doctor testified that he had taken part in organ extraction operations.[7]

    In 2006, allegations emerged that many Falun Gong practitioners had been killed to supply China's organ transplant industry.[8][9] An initial investigation stated "the source of 41,500 transplants for the six year period 2000 to 2005 is unexplained" and concluded that "there has been and continues today to be large scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners".[8]

    In December 2005, China's Deputy Health Minister acknowledged that the practice of removing organs from executed prisoners for transplants was widespread.[10] In 2007, China issued regulations banning the commercial trading of organs,[11] and the Chinese Medical Associationagreed that the organs of prisoners should not be used for transplantation, except for members of the immediate family of the deceased.[12] In 2008, a liver-transplant registry system was established in Shanghai, along with a nationwide proposal to incorporate information on individual driving permits for those wishing to donate their organs.[13]

    Despite these initiatives, China Daily reported in August 2009 that approximately 65% of transplanted organs still came from death row prisoners. The condemned prisoners have been described as "not a proper source for organ transplants" by Vice-Health Minister Huang Jiefu,[14] and in March 2010, he announced the trial of China's first organ donation program starting after death, jointly run by the Red Cross Society and the Ministry of Health, in 10 pilot regions. In 2013, Huang Jiefu altered his position on utilizing prisoners' organs, stating that death row prisoners should be allowed to donate organs and should be integrated into the new computer-based organ allocation system.[15] In 2018 and 2019, media investigations and academic analysis into these allegations increased.[16][17][18]


    Yeah, just wonderful people, those Chinese Communists...
    China was just copying organ harvesting from the west. In the west a systematic way of harvesting organs have long been setup. China has been copying the west in the last forty years. 
    Cough,  "bullshit"...
    You have nothing to dispute. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 30 of 103
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    This is a distortion of fact. The fact is China is using surveillance at ALL people for security only. You extract Uyghurs out for your propaganda. 
    Perhaps it is simply that minorities are extracted to "reeducation" camps against their will, just as the evidence shows.

    It would be interesting to compare how many minorities have been arrested in China vs the U.S. -- or how many in the U.S. never made it to arrest and were just executed where they stood (or laid -- face down and in handcuffs with 5 cops on top of the them).

    Here, we let domestic terrorists breed and grow while we kill or imprison the minorities for, say, the crime of having an air freshener hanging from their mirror.  China seems to do the opposite -- and that terrifies the cult of China Haters.
    LOL!

    We really don't have much comparison vs the PRC given the lack of independent journalism in China, so your whataboutism falls flat.

    So, let's talk about involuntary organ harvesting of Falun Gong prisoners by the Chinese State...

    Organ transplantation in China has taken place since the 1960s, and is one of the largest organ transplantprogrammes in the world, peaking at over 13,000 liver and kidney transplants a year in 2004.[2] Involuntary organ harvesting[3][4][5] is illegal under Chinese law; though, under a 1984 regulation, it became legal to remove organs from executed criminals with the prior consent of the criminal or permission of relatives. Growing concerns about possible ethical abuses arising from coerced consent and corruption led medical groups and human rights organizations, by the 1990s, to condemn the practice.[6] These concerns resurfaced in 2001, when a Chinese asylum-seeking doctor testified that he had taken part in organ extraction operations.[7]

    In 2006, allegations emerged that many Falun Gong practitioners had been killed to supply China's organ transplant industry.[8][9] An initial investigation stated "the source of 41,500 transplants for the six year period 2000 to 2005 is unexplained" and concluded that "there has been and continues today to be large scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners".[8]

    In December 2005, China's Deputy Health Minister acknowledged that the practice of removing organs from executed prisoners for transplants was widespread.[10] In 2007, China issued regulations banning the commercial trading of organs,[11] and the Chinese Medical Associationagreed that the organs of prisoners should not be used for transplantation, except for members of the immediate family of the deceased.[12] In 2008, a liver-transplant registry system was established in Shanghai, along with a nationwide proposal to incorporate information on individual driving permits for those wishing to donate their organs.[13]

    Despite these initiatives, China Daily reported in August 2009 that approximately 65% of transplanted organs still came from death row prisoners. The condemned prisoners have been described as "not a proper source for organ transplants" by Vice-Health Minister Huang Jiefu,[14] and in March 2010, he announced the trial of China's first organ donation program starting after death, jointly run by the Red Cross Society and the Ministry of Health, in 10 pilot regions. In 2013, Huang Jiefu altered his position on utilizing prisoners' organs, stating that death row prisoners should be allowed to donate organs and should be integrated into the new computer-based organ allocation system.[15] In 2018 and 2019, media investigations and academic analysis into these allegations increased.[16][17][18]


    Yeah, just wonderful people, those Chinese Communists...

    LOL...  So, first you claim you don't know what's going on in China -- then you make false claims about what's going in China!

    Ok, I see how this works.
  • Reply 31 of 103
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,328member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    This is a distortion of fact. The fact is China is using surveillance at ALL people for security only. You extract Uyghurs out for your propaganda. 
    Perhaps it is simply that minorities are extracted to "reeducation" camps against their will, just as the evidence shows.

    It would be interesting to compare how many minorities have been arrested in China vs the U.S. -- or how many in the U.S. never made it to arrest and were just executed where they stood (or laid -- face down and in handcuffs with 5 cops on top of the them).

    Here, we let domestic terrorists breed and grow while we kill or imprison the minorities for, say, the crime of having an air freshener hanging from their mirror.  China seems to do the opposite -- and that terrifies the cult of China Haters.
    LOL!

    We really don't have much comparison vs the PRC given the lack of independent journalism in China, so your whataboutism falls flat.

    So, let's talk about involuntary organ harvesting of Falun Gong prisoners by the Chinese State...

    Organ transplantation in China has taken place since the 1960s, and is one of the largest organ transplantprogrammes in the world, peaking at over 13,000 liver and kidney transplants a year in 2004.[2] Involuntary organ harvesting[3][4][5] is illegal under Chinese law; though, under a 1984 regulation, it became legal to remove organs from executed criminals with the prior consent of the criminal or permission of relatives. Growing concerns about possible ethical abuses arising from coerced consent and corruption led medical groups and human rights organizations, by the 1990s, to condemn the practice.[6] These concerns resurfaced in 2001, when a Chinese asylum-seeking doctor testified that he had taken part in organ extraction operations.[7]

    In 2006, allegations emerged that many Falun Gong practitioners had been killed to supply China's organ transplant industry.[8][9] An initial investigation stated "the source of 41,500 transplants for the six year period 2000 to 2005 is unexplained" and concluded that "there has been and continues today to be large scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners".[8]

    In December 2005, China's Deputy Health Minister acknowledged that the practice of removing organs from executed prisoners for transplants was widespread.[10] In 2007, China issued regulations banning the commercial trading of organs,[11] and the Chinese Medical Associationagreed that the organs of prisoners should not be used for transplantation, except for members of the immediate family of the deceased.[12] In 2008, a liver-transplant registry system was established in Shanghai, along with a nationwide proposal to incorporate information on individual driving permits for those wishing to donate their organs.[13]

    Despite these initiatives, China Daily reported in August 2009 that approximately 65% of transplanted organs still came from death row prisoners. The condemned prisoners have been described as "not a proper source for organ transplants" by Vice-Health Minister Huang Jiefu,[14] and in March 2010, he announced the trial of China's first organ donation program starting after death, jointly run by the Red Cross Society and the Ministry of Health, in 10 pilot regions. In 2013, Huang Jiefu altered his position on utilizing prisoners' organs, stating that death row prisoners should be allowed to donate organs and should be integrated into the new computer-based organ allocation system.[15] In 2018 and 2019, media investigations and academic analysis into these allegations increased.[16][17][18]


    Yeah, just wonderful people, those Chinese Communists...

    LOL...  So, first you claim you don't know what's going on in China -- then you make false claims about what's going in China!

    Ok, I see how this works.
    Nice try. 

    So you have an open society here in the U.S., and you don't have that in the PRC, but the world is still able to ascertain China's behavior in spite of the lack of a free press.

    As I noted, the world has an increasingly negative opinion of the PRC, and with good reason.
  • Reply 32 of 103
    foljsfoljs Posts: 390member
    mac_dog said:
    And turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine. Hypocrisy at its finest. 
    It's not about justice or attrocities (as if the US, who has sponsored, done, and still sponsors and does all kinds of attrocities, even downright invations and occupations) cared.

    It's about the trade war. 

    Simply put, DJI does too well, and can get even bigger in the future. They'd rather have an American company get that market...


    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 33 of 103
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's definitely a wavky move and doesn't make a lot of sense. But then again, there is little sense on the entity list.

    US drones have been used in sovereign states for what basically amounts to summary executions. Have

    Drones that were designed to kill. Other drones are designed for reconnaissance.

    DJI also makes drones. Even if it wanted to, I doubt they could stop them from being used for  certain purposes.

    But these look like mere allegations. Not even hard evidence. 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/huawei-surveillance-china/

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-documents-xinjiang-region-uyghur-facial-recognition-prisons-surveillance

    Hard evidence...
    That's hard nonsense! And has nothing to do with DJI!

    Advanced Facial recognition can be used to identify people by ethnicity. Any company worth its salt in the field can do it And the characteristic is a tentpole feature of companies that develop it.

    What purchasers do with the technology has little to do with the company that created it.

    Btw, Huawei is also developing facial recognition for pigs. I suppose pig privacy advocates will be up in arms if they get wind of that!
    So, you agree that the PRC is a human rights violator when surveillance is targeted at minorities (94% of China's population is ethnic Han), and the Huawei is deeply involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    This is a distortion of fact. The fact is China is using surveillance at ALL people for security only. You extract Uyghurs out for your propaganda. 
    Perhaps it is simply that minorities are extracted to "reeducation" camps against their will, just as the evidence shows.

    It would be interesting to compare how many minorities have been arrested in China vs the U.S. -- or how many in the U.S. never made it to arrest and were just executed where they stood (or laid -- face down and in handcuffs with 5 cops on top of the them).

    Here, we let domestic terrorists breed and grow while we kill or imprison the minorities for, say, the crime of having an air freshener hanging from their mirror.  China seems to do the opposite -- and that terrifies the cult of China Haters.
    LOL!

    We really don't have much comparison vs the PRC given the lack of independent journalism in China, so your whataboutism falls flat.

    So, let's talk about involuntary organ harvesting of Falun Gong prisoners by the Chinese State...

    Organ transplantation in China has taken place since the 1960s, and is one of the largest organ transplantprogrammes in the world, peaking at over 13,000 liver and kidney transplants a year in 2004.[2] Involuntary organ harvesting[3][4][5] is illegal under Chinese law; though, under a 1984 regulation, it became legal to remove organs from executed criminals with the prior consent of the criminal or permission of relatives. Growing concerns about possible ethical abuses arising from coerced consent and corruption led medical groups and human rights organizations, by the 1990s, to condemn the practice.[6] These concerns resurfaced in 2001, when a Chinese asylum-seeking doctor testified that he had taken part in organ extraction operations.[7]

    In 2006, allegations emerged that many Falun Gong practitioners had been killed to supply China's organ transplant industry.[8][9] An initial investigation stated "the source of 41,500 transplants for the six year period 2000 to 2005 is unexplained" and concluded that "there has been and continues today to be large scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners".[8]

    In December 2005, China's Deputy Health Minister acknowledged that the practice of removing organs from executed prisoners for transplants was widespread.[10] In 2007, China issued regulations banning the commercial trading of organs,[11] and the Chinese Medical Associationagreed that the organs of prisoners should not be used for transplantation, except for members of the immediate family of the deceased.[12] In 2008, a liver-transplant registry system was established in Shanghai, along with a nationwide proposal to incorporate information on individual driving permits for those wishing to donate their organs.[13]

    Despite these initiatives, China Daily reported in August 2009 that approximately 65% of transplanted organs still came from death row prisoners. The condemned prisoners have been described as "not a proper source for organ transplants" by Vice-Health Minister Huang Jiefu,[14] and in March 2010, he announced the trial of China's first organ donation program starting after death, jointly run by the Red Cross Society and the Ministry of Health, in 10 pilot regions. In 2013, Huang Jiefu altered his position on utilizing prisoners' organs, stating that death row prisoners should be allowed to donate organs and should be integrated into the new computer-based organ allocation system.[15] In 2018 and 2019, media investigations and academic analysis into these allegations increased.[16][17][18]


    Yeah, just wonderful people, those Chinese Communists...

    LOL...  So, first you claim you don't know what's going on in China -- then you make false claims about what's going in China!

    Ok, I see how this works.
    Nice try. 

    So you have an open society here in the U.S., and you don't have that in the PRC, but the world is still able to ascertain China's behavior in spite of the lack of a free press.

    As I noted, the world has an increasingly negative opinion of the PRC, and with good reason.

    Making stuff up & spouting bullshit accusations is only reality in the world of Trump.
  • Reply 34 of 103
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    foljs said:
    mac_dog said:
    And turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine. Hypocrisy at its finest. 
    It's not about justice or attrocities (as if the US, who has sponsored, done, and still sponsors and does all kinds of attrocities, even downright invations and occupations) cared.

    It's about the trade war. 

    Simply put, DJI does too well, and can get even bigger in the future. They'd rather have an American company get that market...



    Even though the U.S. spends 3/4 Trillion $ a year on its military, they aren't very good at fighting.
    So now we are trying our luck at economic and propaganda wars. 

    War.  It's what we do.  One would think we'd be better at it by now.  But, practice makes perfect.
  • Reply 35 of 103
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,661member
    foljs said:
    mac_dog said:
    And turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine. Hypocrisy at its finest. 
    It's not about justice or attrocities (as if the US, who has sponsored, done, and still sponsors and does all kinds of attrocities, even downrigh i8t invations and occupations) cared.

    It's about the trade war. 

    Simply put, DJI does too well, and can get even bigger in the future. They'd rather have an American company get that market...


    That is pretty much it.

    The US has gone on record numerous times (sometimes unwittingly) as fearing being displaced by China as it sees it as a threat to US technological hegemony and influence.

    That China is making huge technological strides and is likely to become a technological powerhouse is a widely accepted scenario.

    However, the 'threat' isn't only Chinese. The EU also has a stated goal of becoming technologically independent (or in other words, not reliant on US influence, control, and restrictions).

    As with China, those plans were in place long before Trump became president.

    All Trump has achieved is to push governments to accelerate those independence plans, worsening the situation for US companies. 

    The US is now seen as unreliable and, logically, companies around the world (and governments) resent being 'told' what to do via executive orders issued under the guise of 'national security' simply because their companies (or their products) use a percentage of US technology.

    These actions are mainly 'protectionist' in intent but are only serving to harm US technology interests in the long term.


    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 36 of 103
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,328member
    avon b7 said:
    foljs said:
    mac_dog said:
    And turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine. Hypocrisy at its finest. 
    It's not about justice or attrocities (as if the US, who has sponsored, done, and still sponsors and does all kinds of attrocities, even downrigh i8t invations and occupations) cared.

    It's about the trade war. 

    Simply put, DJI does too well, and can get even bigger in the future. They'd rather have an American company get that market...


    That is pretty much it.

    The US has gone on record numerous times (sometimes unwittingly) as fearing being displaced by China as it sees it as a threat to US technological hegemony and influence.

    That China is making huge technological strides and is likely to become a technological powerhouse is a widely accepted scenario.

    However, the 'threat' isn't only Chinese. The EU also has a stated goal of becoming technologically independent (or in other words, not reliant on US influence, control, and restrictions).

    As with China, those plans were in place long before Trump became president.

    All Trump has achieved is to push governments to accelerate those independence plans, worsening the situation for US companies. 

    The US is now seen as unreliable and, logically, companies around the world (and governments) resent being 'told' what to do via executive orders issued under the guise of 'national security' simply because their companies (or their products) use a percentage of US technology.

    These actions are mainly 'protectionist' in intent but are only serving to harm US technology interests in the long term.



    FFS,


    Nobody in the West trusts the PRC.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/30/chinas-international-image-remains-broadly-negative-as-views-of-the-u-s-rebound/

    ..."as views of the U.S. rebound...


    Perhaps it is China's intellectual property theft that is the basis of its military expansionism that is the issue, and why the West is less willing to cede technological leadership to China. Perhaps it is China's "Wolf Warrior Diplomacy". There are numerous reasons that China is now seen as a threat.

    You and you ilk believe that China has peaceful intentions; I do not. There is quite a bit of evidence to the effect that China's militarization is a threat to the West, and the current Rules of Order established at the end of WWII. These rules, for the most part, are the reason that the Global Economy works as well as it does.

    Heck, even the EU's position on China is changing to recognize the threat that China poses, and at the same time, is more friendly to Taiwan.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/06/business/the-eu-finally-has-a-china-plan-intl-cmd/index.html

    However, the change in public opinion toward China is filtering through to Europe's leadership. Fallon believes that in countries which have historically been in favor of economic partnerships with China like France and Hungary -- which both have elections soon -- political opposition will be able to leverage public hostility.

    The danger isn't that there won't be a coherent China strategy, but that a plan gets watered down so much it isn't worth the paper it's written on.
    In the case of the Global Gateway, that could be private sector companies not keen to fund huge infrastructure projects that don't make money. On security, it might be that countries in southern Europe enjoy Chinese money and don't geographically see it as a threat. ***that sounds like your country of Spain...
      For now, China hawks are happy that Brussels is attempting to stop trampling over its lofty ambitions of promoting democracy, human rights, and free trade, blinded by the Chinese yuan signs in their eyes.

      What remains to be seen is whether the EU's own red tape and processes suffocate that ambition, and if once the pandemic begins to recede, Europe returns to its former bad habit of turning a blind eye, even when doing so hurts its own long-term interests.
      The tide is turning against China's expansionism, and it isn't soon enough.
      edited December 2021
    • Reply 37 of 103
      GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
      tmay said:
      avon b7 said:
      foljs said:
      mac_dog said:
      And turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine. Hypocrisy at its finest. 
      It's not about justice or attrocities (as if the US, who has sponsored, done, and still sponsors and does all kinds of attrocities, even downrigh i8t invations and occupations) cared.

      It's about the trade war. 

      Simply put, DJI does too well, and can get even bigger in the future. They'd rather have an American company get that market...


      That is pretty much it.

      The US has gone on record numerous times (sometimes unwittingly) as fearing being displaced by China as it sees it as a threat to US technological hegemony and influence.

      That China is making huge technological strides and is likely to become a technological powerhouse is a widely accepted scenario.

      However, the 'threat' isn't only Chinese. The EU also has a stated goal of becoming technologically independent (or in other words, not reliant on US influence, control, and restrictions).

      As with China, those plans were in place long before Trump became president.

      All Trump has achieved is to push governments to accelerate those independence plans, worsening the situation for US companies. 

      The US is now seen as unreliable and, logically, companies around the world (and governments) resent being 'told' what to do via executive orders issued under the guise of 'national security' simply because their companies (or their products) use a percentage of US technology.

      These actions are mainly 'protectionist' in intent but are only serving to harm US technology interests in the long term.



      FFS,


      Nobody in the West trusts the PRC.


      As usual, your hate caused you to miss and/or ignore his point.

      At this point China is on a steady, stable course with competent, stable leadership.  Nobody knows where the U.S. is headed.   Our word is only good till the next election.

      That's one of the main sticking points in getting Iran to, once again, give up its nuclear weapons development:  They are clear about it:  they do not trust us to keep our word beyond the next election -- so they want some legally binding guarantee.

      We can't even keep our word to ourselves -- ask our very lopsided & politicized Supreme Court.

      Or, ask Taiwan:  We made them believe we would go to war against China for them.   Now we tell them:  "Go for it!  We'll cheer you on all the way! Go Team!"

    • Reply 38 of 103
      tmaytmay Posts: 6,328member
      tmay said:
      avon b7 said:
      foljs said:
      mac_dog said:
      And turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine. Hypocrisy at its finest. 
      It's not about justice or attrocities (as if the US, who has sponsored, done, and still sponsors and does all kinds of attrocities, even downrigh i8t invations and occupations) cared.

      It's about the trade war. 

      Simply put, DJI does too well, and can get even bigger in the future. They'd rather have an American company get that market...


      That is pretty much it.

      The US has gone on record numerous times (sometimes unwittingly) as fearing being displaced by China as it sees it as a threat to US technological hegemony and influence.

      That China is making huge technological strides and is likely to become a technological powerhouse is a widely accepted scenario.

      However, the 'threat' isn't only Chinese. The EU also has a stated goal of becoming technologically independent (or in other words, not reliant on US influence, control, and restrictions).

      As with China, those plans were in place long before Trump became president.

      All Trump has achieved is to push governments to accelerate those independence plans, worsening the situation for US companies. 

      The US is now seen as unreliable and, logically, companies around the world (and governments) resent being 'told' what to do via executive orders issued under the guise of 'national security' simply because their companies (or their products) use a percentage of US technology.

      These actions are mainly 'protectionist' in intent but are only serving to harm US technology interests in the long term.



      FFS,


      Nobody in the West trusts the PRC.


      As usual, your hate caused you to miss and/or ignore his point.

      At this point China is on a steady, stable course with competent, stable leadership.  Nobody knows where the U.S. is headed.   Our word is only good till the next election.

      That's one of the main sticking points in getting Iran to, once again, give up its nuclear weapons development:  They are clear about it:  they do not trust us to keep our word beyond the next election -- so they want some legally binding guarantee.

      We can't even keep our word to ourselves -- ask our very lopsided & politicized Supreme Court.

      Or, ask Taiwan:  We made them believe we would go to war against China for them.   Now we tell them:  "Go for it!  We'll cheer you on all the way! Go Team!"

      LOL!

      "your hate"

      China is not on a "steady, stable course with competent, stable Leadership"; Xi Jinping is a dictator, and his micromanaging is going to cause numerous problems for China, especially economic.

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/xi-jinpings-leadership-style-micromanagement-that-leaves-underlings-scrambling-11639582426




    • Reply 39 of 103
      tmay said:
      tmay said:
      avon b7 said:
      foljs said:
      mac_dog said:
      And turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine. Hypocrisy at its finest. 
      It's not about justice or attrocities (as if the US, who has sponsored, done, and still sponsors and does all kinds of attrocities, even downrigh i8t invations and occupations) cared.

      It's about the trade war. 

      Simply put, DJI does too well, and can get even bigger in the future. They'd rather have an American company get that market...


      That is pretty much it.

      The US has gone on record numerous times (sometimes unwittingly) as fearing being displaced by China as it sees it as a threat to US technological hegemony and influence.

      That China is making huge technological strides and is likely to become a technological powerhouse is a widely accepted scenario.

      However, the 'threat' isn't only Chinese. The EU also has a stated goal of becoming technologically independent (or in other words, not reliant on US influence, control, and restrictions).

      As with China, those plans were in place long before Trump became president.

      All Trump has achieved is to push governments to accelerate those independence plans, worsening the situation for US companies. 

      The US is now seen as unreliable and, logically, companies around the world (and governments) resent being 'told' what to do via executive orders issued under the guise of 'national security' simply because their companies (or their products) use a percentage of US technology.

      These actions are mainly 'protectionist' in intent but are only serving to harm US technology interests in the long term.



      FFS,


      Nobody in the West trusts the PRC.


      As usual, your hate caused you to miss and/or ignore his point.

      At this point China is on a steady, stable course with competent, stable leadership.  Nobody knows where the U.S. is headed.   Our word is only good till the next election.

      That's one of the main sticking points in getting Iran to, once again, give up its nuclear weapons development:  They are clear about it:  they do not trust us to keep our word beyond the next election -- so they want some legally binding guarantee.

      We can't even keep our word to ourselves -- ask our very lopsided & politicized Supreme Court.

      Or, ask Taiwan:  We made them believe we would go to war against China for them.   Now we tell them:  "Go for it!  We'll cheer you on all the way! Go Team!"

      LOL!

      "your hate"

      China is not on a "steady, stable course with competent, stable Leadership"; Xi Jinping is a dictator, and his micromanaging is going to cause numerous problems for China, especially economic.

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/xi-jinpings-leadership-style-micromanagement-that-leaves-underlings-scrambling-11639582426





      Once again your hate caused you to miss the point -- and respond with more blathering nonsense. 
      At least you're consistent.
    • Reply 40 of 103
      avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,661member
      tmay said:
      avon b7 said:
      foljs said:
      mac_dog said:
      And turn a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine. Hypocrisy at its finest. 
      BeIt's not about justice or attrocities (as if the US, who has sponsored, done, and still sponsors and does all kinds of attrocities, even downrigh i8t invations and occupations) cared.

      It's about the trade war. 

      Simply put, DJI does too well, and can get even bigger in the future. They'd rather have an American company get that market...


      That is pretty much it.

      The US has gone on record numerous times (sometimes unwittingly) as fearing being displaced by China as it sees it as a threat to US technological hegemony and influence.

      That China is making huge technological strides and is likely to become a technological powerhouse is a widely accepted scenario.

      However, the 'threat' isn't only Chinese. The EU also has a stated goal of becoming technologically independent (or in other words, not reliant on US influence, control, and restrictions).

      As with China, those plans were in place long before Trump became president.

      All Trump has achieved is to push governments to accelerate those independence plans, worsening the situation for US companies. 

      The US is now seen as unreliable and, logically, companies around the world (and governments) resent being 'told' what to do via executive orders issued under the guise of 'national security' simply because their companies (or their products) use a percentage of US technology.

      These actions are mainly 'protectionist' in intent but are only serving to harm US technology interests in the long term.



      FFS,


      Nobody in the West trusts the PRC.

      https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/30/chinas-international-image-remains-broadly-negative-as-views-of-the-u-s-rebound/

      ..."as views of the U.S. rebound...


      Perhaps it is China's intellectual property theft that is the basis of its military expansionism that is the issue, and why the West is less willing to cede technological leadership to China. Perhaps it is China's "Wolf Warrior Diplomacy". There are numerous reasons that China is now seen as a threat.

      You and you ilk believe that China has peaceful intentions; I do not. There is quite a bit of evidence to the effect that China's militarization is a threat to the West, and the current Rules of Order established at the end of WWII. These rules, for the most part, are the reason that the Global Economy works as well as it does.

      Heck, even the EU's position on China is changing to recognize the threat that China poses, and at the same time, is more friendly to Taiwan.

      https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/06/business/the-eu-finally-has-a-china-plan-intl-cmd/index.html

      However, the change in public opinion toward China is filtering through to Europe's leadership. Fallon believes that in countries which have historically been in favor of economic partnerships with China like France and Hungary -- which both have elections soon -- political opposition will be able to leverage public hostility.

      The danger isn't that there won't be a coherent China strategy, but that a plan gets watered down so much it isn't worth the paper it's written on.
      In the case of the Global Gateway, that could be private sector companies not keen to fund huge infrastructure projects that don't make money. On security, it might be that countries in southern Europe enjoy Chinese money and don't geographically see it as a threat. ***that sounds like your country of Spain...
        For now, China hawks are happy that Brussels is attempting to stop trampling over its lofty ambitions of promoting democracy, human rights, and free trade, blinded by the Chinese yuan signs in their eyes.

        What remains to be seen is whether the EU's own red tape and processes suffocate that ambition, and if once the pandemic begins to recede, Europe returns to its former bad habit of turning a blind eye, even when doing so hurts its own long-term interests.
        The tide is turning against China's expansionism, and it isn't soon enough.
        What did any of that have to do with what I said?

        I'm talking about official statements, not opinion pieces.

        William Barr said the US had to do something to stop Huawei and it's dominance in 5G for fear of "surrendering supremecy" to China.

        He noted that 5G would form the backbone of countless new technologies and China was already making great strides in developing them.

        As the US has nothing of its own to counter that situation, he even suggested the US should consider taking a controlling stake in Ericcson. Another wacky statement seeing as studies suggest that, even under 'sanctions', Huawei in 2021 had business in 5G that is equivalent to that of Ericcson and Nokia combined. Not to mention that the US has continually criticised alleged subsidies to Huawei from government. Huawei itself debunked those claims and it hasn't been brought up since.

        The US has also used the terms destroy, kill and choke to refer to its stance on Huawei.

        And if you bother to pay attention, even the latest, ehem, 'in depth' investigation on Huawei by Bloomberg, manages to spend much of the latter part of the article blowing holes in its own claims!

        There's a lot of clutching at straws going on and desperate moves, but the CEO of ASML made things clear. The US approach will fail.


        muthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMac
      Sign In or Register to comment.