Apple loses second key chip engineer, this time to Microsoft

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 45
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,258member
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    The core of that development is paid for by iPhone on day one. 

    The customizations aren’t going to take long to recoup. Inside one year. 

    The foundational milestones, like die to die interconnects and the all inclusive fabric will amortize over a couple years max and be around for a very long time. Apple has factored this into max pricing, particularly with custom builds. Apple doesn’t like to carry costs. That’s part of why there is an “Apple tax.” 

    Well worth it. 

    The sad part of these developers leaving is hat they probably weren’t happy at Apple. Be great to figure out why. But if it has to do with the “woke” philosophies, there isn’t much to do there. That’s Apple snd most engineers simply don’t buy into that. 

    Then again, maybe Srouji is a hard boss. He seems pretty strict (not wasting a single transistor) and that’s why Apple silicon is so good. 
    I wouldn’t trust Microsoft more for the “woke” part, though.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 45
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 2,838member
    Apple absolutely has the money and will to hire and retain whoever they need to in order to achieve their goals with Apple Silicon, so I'm not particularly concerned about these stories. 

    Who should be concerned? In this case, Intel and AMD, because they are the likely losers if companies like MS and Amazon stop buying (or buy far fewer) x86 chips.
    maximarawilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 45
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    I have heard some people left silicon valley because it is unAmerican.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 45
    doggonedoggone Posts: 326member
    It's the software and the hardware that differentiate Apple from others.  Plus now they have integrated iOS and MacOS.
    Apple still needs to keep the pressure up and skate to where the puck will be.

    We haven't seen the most from Apple yet.  Remember they plan long term.
    maximarawilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 45
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    The core of that development is paid for by iPhone on day one. 

    The customizations aren’t going to take long to recoup. Inside one year. 

    The foundational milestones, like die to die interconnects and the all inclusive fabric will amortize over a couple years max and be around for a very long time. Apple has factored this into max pricing, particularly with custom builds. Apple doesn’t like to carry costs. That’s part of why there is an “Apple tax.” 

    Well worth it. 

    The sad part of these developers leaving is hat they probably weren’t happy at Apple. Be great to figure out why. But if it has to do with the “woke” philosophies, there isn’t much to do there. That’s Apple snd most engineers simply don’t buy into that. 

    Then again, maybe Srouji is a hard boss. He seems pretty strict (not wasting a single transistor) and that’s why Apple silicon is so good. 

    I didn't say and I hope I didn't imply that it was not a good investment.
    Simply that the big push is over and done and the high end performers are moving on to do more great things -- leaving the clean-up & fine tuning to the mere mortals now that they've been shown the way.
  • Reply 26 of 45
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    thrang said:
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    Or this guy is NOT an "A Player" and is thus a money chaser....

    There are a million reasons why a person joins or leaves any company... unless publicly stated, it's silly to draw conclusions...

    Perhaps.   Only the insiders know for sure.
    But this is typical of the high performers looking to do great things...   Once the job is done, they move on to the next great thing.

    Is it about money?  As I mentioned, among the high end performers, money is often more just a way of keeping score.  They are more concerned about accomplishment than remuneration.  It's part of what makes them high end performers.
  • Reply 27 of 45
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    crowley said:
    thrang said:
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    Or this guy is NOT an "A Player" and is thus a money chaser....

    There are a million reasons why a person joins or leaves any company... unless publicly stated, it's silly to draw conclusions...
    Or: Steve Jobs was talking crap to justify the way he treated people.  In reality, people have a plethora of different motivations whether they're "A" Players, "B" Players, or whatever.  

    Devolving to a "not a true A Player" because a person doesn't conform to made up rules is dogmatic nonsense.

    The A Players are the last to "conform to made up rules" -- and Steve announced that to the world with his "Think Different" campaign.

    No, being an A Player is all about performance.  The B Players wonder "How did they do that?"



  • Reply 28 of 45
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,094member
    Another absurd article claiming that a departed employee was a “key” person, without providing any facts to support that contention. This dude was at Apple for 2 years. I doubt he contributed much at all relative to the thousands of other engineers he worked alongside with. 
    edited January 13 maximarawilliamlondonStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 45
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,176member
    Hey AppleInsider, please provide documentation that these two “key” chip engineers were poached and did not switch jobs on their own for whatever reason. Does it get more clicks and eyes if you imply Apple is losing.

    And the media , national and otherwise, wonder why the populace no longer trusts them. Survey after survey now shows the public has grown more and more skeptical of journalism and the news specifically. Cable news shows are no longer “news” outlets. They are editorial and opinion outlets, period. The great comedian Lewis Black is going after both sides on his Rantcasts. 
    edited January 13 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 45
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    lkrupp said:
    Hey AppleInsider, please provide documentation that these two “key” chip engineers were poached and did not switch jobs on their own for whatever reason. Does it get more clicks and eyes if you imply Apple is losing.
    If Apple are losing staff because the staff are seeking employment elsewhere then that hardly changes the conversation to them "winning".

    How about you just avoid the negative stories if they bother you so?  Start a new Apple news site that only posts unreservedly good things about Apple, and censors all comments that aren't uniformly positive.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 31 of 45
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,257member
    Kind of doubting that this persons “key”ness as it pertains to post M2 development. Supposedly the M2 is a marginal improvement over M1. Kinda doubt Apple ID super happy about that. 

    [...]

    If they leave, Apple isn’t losing sleep. 
    Supposedly? By what source? News to me. 

    But agreed on the latter - Apple's chip division isn't two dudes, so two guys leaving is not doom or even newsworthy, IMO. Money talks, people walk. Nothing new.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 45
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,257member
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    Can you define "low-profit Mac"? As far as I know Apple has enjoyed its healthy profit margin on Macs for decades (said to be their usual 30s). iPhone is its most-profitable category of course, but Mac is perhaps the next profitable hardware product, with services rising:

    https://www.investopedia.com/apple-s-5-most-profitable-lines-of-business-4684130

    https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/10/apple-reports-fourth-quarter-results/
    edited January 13 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 45
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,257member
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    The sad part of these developers leaving is hat they probably weren’t happy at Apple. Be great to figure out why. But if it has to do with the “woke” philosophies, there isn’t much to do there. That’s Apple snd most engineers simply don’t buy into that. 
    What on earth are you talking about? Most software developers don't buy into what? Equal civil rights for gays and inclusion of woman & minorities? Career enterprise developer here, and have no idea what you're talking about. But then again you're confusing developers and silicon engineers, so it's likely even you don't know what you're talking about...
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 45
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,257member
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    I have heard some people left silicon valley because it is unAmerican.
    Sounds like nonsense, since Silicon Valley is a native American sector. Sounds like you may be butthurt about conservative politics and are trying to blame US tech for it?
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 45
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    I have heard some people left silicon valley because it is unAmerican.
    Sounds like nonsense, since Silicon Valley is a native American sector. Sounds like you may be butthurt about conservative politics and are trying to blame US tech for it?
    "Native American sector" probably isn't the best way to phrase it :)

    But yeah, waveparticle is just injecting their usual nonsense and trying to start debates about the USA where there's no absolutely call for it.  Bought and (over)paid.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 45
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    Can you define "low-profit Mac"? As far as I know Apple has enjoyed its healthy profit margin on Macs for decades (said to be their usual 30s). iPhone is its most-profitable category of course, but Mac is perhaps the next profitable hardware product, with services rising:

    https://www.investopedia.com/apple-s-5-most-profitable-lines-of-business-4684130

    https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/10/apple-reports-fourth-quarter-results/

    What portion of Apple's profits come from the Mac?  Darn little.
    It's like the guy on the street corner selling apples for $10,000 each.  When asked he says:  "All I have to do is sell one".

    His Profit Margin is very high.  But not his profits -- which is all that matters in the end.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 45
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    I have heard some people left silicon valley because it is unAmerican.
    Sounds like nonsense, since Silicon Valley is a native American sector. Sounds like you may be butthurt about conservative politics and are trying to blame US tech for it?
    You do not live in Silicon Valley and you are not native American. You don't know Silicon Valley. Twenty years ago people in southern California don't know where is Silicon Valley. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 38 of 45
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    I have heard some people left silicon valley because it is unAmerican.
    Sounds like nonsense, since Silicon Valley is a native American sector. Sounds like you may be butthurt about conservative politics and are trying to blame US tech for it?
    You do not live in Silicon Valley and you are not native American. You don't know Silicon Valley. Twenty years ago people in southern California don't know where is Silicon Valley. 
    Twenty years ago people in Southern California almost certainly knew where Silicon Valley was.  And why is that even relevant?

    Do just shut up, you absolute offal spewing waste of time and effort.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 45
    crowley said:
    felix01 said:
    Gotta pay 'em to keep 'em. Competitors are hungry for top talent. 

    As Steve pointed out:  "A Players" don't chase money.  They chase challenges and an environment that supports their ability to create great things.  As with America's great industrialists:  the money was just a way of keeping score.

    Apple just poured a LOT of resources into a CPU for the low-profit Mac where it will take years if not decades to recover their investment while the product matures and incorporates itself fully into Apple's ecosystem.   So, most likely Apple is wisely pulling back from that high cost push -- and the A Players are headed out to where the action is.
    I have heard some people left silicon valley because it is unAmerican.
    Sounds like nonsense, since Silicon Valley is a native American sector. Sounds like you may be butthurt about conservative politics and are trying to blame US tech for it?
    You do not live in Silicon Valley and you are not native American. You don't know Silicon Valley. Twenty years ago people in southern California don't know where is Silicon Valley. 
    Twenty years ago people in Southern California almost certainly knew where Silicon Valley was.  And why is that even relevant?

    Do just shut up, you absolute offal spewing waste of time and effort.
    I am talking about truth. They only know cities like San Jose. During the dot com bubble in late 1990, there are news that many people in Silicon Valley earning much more than defense industry engineers in southern California. These people are not happy. Today, after twenty years the cycle rotates back. Silicon Valley becomes supper rich again. There is a news recently that a house with about 1300 sq ft was sold for $2.68 million. 
  • Reply 40 of 45
    Other thank this being a thought discussion, who really cares and how does this affect your daily lives?
    watto_cobra
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