Microsoft says that if Apple isn't stopped now, its antitrust behavior will just get worse...

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  • Reply 41 of 148
    tmay said:
    Apple is much too successful - we need to stop it now! -- Microsoft

    Microsoft is pretty pathetic, and Apple's privacy terms rankle Microsoft's nerves. Too bad Windows doesn't have the same privacy safeguards - with Windows attempting to force everything through Edge.

    Microsoft runs their own closed ecosystem with XBox, so it's a lot of Microsoft calling the kettle black.

    The real monopoly is in the enterprise software realm where Microsoft keeps boosting prices for their good enough software.

    What really pisses off Microsoft is that they don't have access to Apple Silicon ARM processors, so Windows ARM will run faster on Apple hardware than on their OEMs - or indeed on their own surface machines.
    Microsoft has a point here. In the 90s it was so successful it almost killed Apple. On the other hand, Steve Jobs resurrected Apple without having to stop Microsoft. 
    Worth noting Microsoft invested in Apple in the 90's. Apple may owe Microsoft to a degree.
    $150M and Microsoft made easy money off of the return. The reason that MS agreed to provide the $150M and MS Office for 5 years, was that MS had been caught using some of Apple's Quicktime IP. 

    What Apple owes is a tip of the hat to MS for keeping its corpulent ass focused on x86, killing its chances of success in mobile. 
    x86 has nothing to do with Microsoft's failure of Windows. The mobile OS's ran ARM, MIPS, and a third architecture. When they pivoted to Windows Phone it ran ARM.

    They took their eye off the ball. Simple
    williamlondon
  • Reply 42 of 148
    dantheman827 said: Apple has clearly shown that they will force developers to implement in-app purchases for a service being sold through their website if they don't have enough money to fight back, but Netflix and Amazon would put up one hell of a fight.

    In the case of WordPress, that backfired because the app never sold anything in the first place.

    WordPress claims Apple cut off updates to its completely free app because it wants 30 percent - The Verge
    If it's so clear, why is your only example WordPress? That's from 2020 and was essentially a double screw-up by WordPress and Apple's app review team. Apple issued an apology and WordPress never really addressed what Apple said the original issue was (display of premium service payment options with the app).

    https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-apology-wordpress-app-store-2020-8
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 148
    Did you know that Microsoft was named after the founders private parts? Micro and soft. Ohhhhhhhhh , I’m here all night folks!! Seriously though,  never mind I don’t have to explain how ridiculous this is. If you look up hypocrisy in the dictionary; Micro$oft.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 148
    The tactic here is obvious:

    ‘Entity A’ expresses grave concerns about how ‘Entity B’ is doing something bad so that it will distract from the fact that ‘Entity A’ is doing exactly what they’re criticising ‘Entity B’ of doing.

    The democrats have mastered this technique with their increasing desire for an authoritarian state. ‘In the public’s interest’, because the population are babies and need protection from the evil coronavirus and the evil Trump and the evil misinformation, and they want the population to suckle at the government’s teat. And the population is happy to submit out of fear.
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamibillBeatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 148
    georgie01 said:
    The tactic here is obvious:

    ‘Entity A’ expresses grave concerns about how ‘Entity B’ is doing something bad so that it will distract from the fact that ‘Entity A’ is doing exactly what they’re criticising ‘Entity B’ of doing.

    The democrats have mastered this technique with their increasing desire for an authoritarian state. ‘In the public’s interest’, because the population are babies and need protection from the evil coronavirus and the evil Trump and the evil misinformation, and they want the population to suckle at the government’s teat. And the population is happy to submit out of fear.
    Hyper-partisan nonsense. Put the fucking tinfoil hat away.
    thtsconosciutoleavingthebiggmaximarahlee1169watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 46 of 148
    davidwdavidw Posts: 1,645member
    Are their alternative Xbox stores? Can I side load games onto my Xbox?
    Sideloading: Yes, you can, indeed! You boot into developer mode. All the games you bought through the Xbox interface for Windows Store are nowhere to be seen, that’s the catch, the sacrifice you make. I have an Xbox One S (Xbox One generation — not the 2020 Xbox Series S version).

    Thanks to this, you have videos like these showing you how to enjoy excellent retro emulation without modding.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGAjhjp8dnI

    That video showcases Series S, but my old One S uses the same thing, just older hardware.

    Regarding alt Xbox stores: no, only developer mode. I can make my own Unity game and execute the code directly on the console (except I’m a hobby Swift programmer without any game programming or 3D animation experience)
    And if you jailbreak an iPhone you can side load apps.

    If you pay for a $99 developer account, you can sign and side load apps. (not sure what the limit is.)

    There is a free developer account using a free apple ID, that will let you side load apps into your iDevice. But the app will only stay signed for 7 days and limited to 3 apps at a time (with each account). After 7 days, you need to reload the app again. Plus it doesn't get your app into the App Store. 

    https://www.igeeksblog.com/how-to-create-free-apple-developer-account/
    edited February 1 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 148
    davidw said:
    And if you jailbreak an iPhone you can side load apps.

    If you pay for a $99 developer account, you can sign and side load apps. (not sure what the limit is.)

    There is a free developer account using a free apple ID, that will let you side load apps into your iDevice. But the app will only stay signed for 7 days and limited to 3 apps at a time (with each account). Afterwards 7 days, you need to reload the app again. Plus it doesn't get your app into the App Store. 

    https://www.igeeksblog.com/how-to-create-free-apple-developer-account/
    Yep. I published Objective-C apps on the App Store back in the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 days. Have been using a free account for several years, developing in Swift and SwiftUI on iPad hardware. The 7 day restriction and 3 apps is a constant frustration, but I’m not going to resume as a paying developer until my apps are ready to be showcased.
    williamlondonmaximarawatto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 148
    I think people would lay off Apple if they would just allow third party payment systems fully.

    Developers already spend $99+ a year for distribution of their apps in the app store. 3rd party payments require $0 for Apple to maintain because they use zero of Apple's infrastructure outside of the phone you already paid for.

    Apple doesn't need to take a cut in your entire business.
    I'd rather go through Apple with any payment related issues than countless other payment processors such as Worldpay, Cleverbridge, Stripe, or whatever is being used.  But nobody seems to be giving a damn about the consumer and what they think about all this - just the profit margins of Apple and the app developers.  Apple will still charge their cut regardless of whether you use their or a third party payment processor.  Apple will still want payment for hosting the app (along with vetting it - which I will say they desperately need to improve upon - but Google also needs to up the ante too).  The key issue here is how much they're charging for that service.  It's up to the developer whether that's worth it or not.  Nobody has a God-given right to any particular platform.

    As for the annual $99 - that's barely anything.   Having run a small ISP, there were significantly greater annual charges than that, plus the rest.

    edited February 1 williamlondontmayMacsWithPenguinsmaximaraBeatshlee1169watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 148
    Beats said:

    I can install anything in my Mac too, including Windows!! Can’t do that on a windows machine.

    And they allow 3rd party payments and stores? Heck I’m setting up shop on Xbox selling crappy games then. 
    True, but Apple is the one that's not allowing macOS to legally run on Windows/generic x86_64 boxes.  But that's an intended design.  Generic x86_64 boxes were designed to run all manner of hardware and operating systems, whereas Macs are very hardware-specific and meant to keep things as simple as possible.  That Macs could run Windows natively or through virtualisation during their Intel period was a bonus.  Microsoft has sided with Qualcomm when it comes to Windows ARM, and that's their choice to do so - though there shouldn't be anything to allow them to work with Apple to get a Windows ARM Boot Camp working.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 148
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,391member
    Beats said:
    Not like MS is a competitor to Apple or anything.

    And MS is right! Let’s also open up all of Microsoft’s stores to 3rd parties! I wanna be able to sell my crappy games on Xbox without giving them money!!

    Microsoft has a monopoly on Windows!! Microsoft, police yourselves!
    Microsoft doesn't put the same controls on Windows that Apple puts on their platforms.

    For one you can install whatever you want on their devices. For another they allow third party payments for when you do use their store.
    Windows is Not a mobile device that stores all your data and can be easily stolen or misplaced. When windows phone existed they had a similar store but it failed miserably and they a jealous now. 

    They are afraid Apple will finally get serious about enterprise software and compete with Office in a concerted manner. They also see the Mac install base increasing significantly since the pandemic. That means fewer windows licenses. What’s crazy is that if Apple doubled their install base Microsoft would still have 80% of the market, but they are just greedy and want it all. 
    williamlondontmayBeatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 148
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,526moderator
    “… further harmful conduct…”

    It’s not been shown that Apple had engaged in any harmful conduct, so this statement from a Microsoft clearly reveals their disingenuous position on this matter.  
    williamlondonStrangeDaysthtsconosciutoleavingthebiggBeatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 148
    Who'd know more about antitrust than MSoft?! What I don't understand is why they'd side with Epic on an issue that doesn't concern them in the least. But, that's the M.O. of a loser, runner-up, taking potshots at the competition even though Apple is also a platform that, though minuscule compared to the Windows PC crowd, hosts a number of their bloated Apps. 
    williamlondonmaximarawatto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 148
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,526moderator
    Apple is much too successful - we need to stop it now! -- Microsoft

    Microsoft is pretty pathetic, and Apple's privacy terms rankle Microsoft's nerves. Too bad Windows doesn't have the same privacy safeguards - with Windows attempting to force everything through Edge.

    Microsoft runs their own closed ecosystem with XBox, so it's a lot of Microsoft calling the kettle black.

    The real monopoly is in the enterprise software realm where Microsoft keeps boosting prices for their good enough software.

    What really pisses off Microsoft is that they don't have access to Apple Silicon ARM processors, so Windows ARM will run faster on Apple hardware than on their OEMs - or indeed on their own surface machines.
    Microsoft has a point here. In the 90s it was so successful it almost killed Apple. On the other hand, Steve Jobs resurrected Apple without having to stop Microsoft. 
    Worth noting Microsoft invested in Apple in the 90's. Apple may owe Microsoft to a degree.
    Apple may owe Microsoft?  Are you serious?  Microsoft invested in Apple.  Apple has rewarded EVERY one of its investors many many times their investment.  Oh wait, you’re saying Apple owes Microsoft because Microsoft wasn’t savvy enough to hold onto their Apple shares?  I understand.  
    williamlondonStrangeDaystmaysconosciutoomasouBeatswatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 54 of 148
    Hmm yeah where are the alternate app stores on Xbox….nope, they don’t exist. 
    williamlondonBeatswatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 55 of 148
    Who'd know more about antitrust than MSoft?! What I don't understand is why they'd side with Epic on an issue that doesn't concern them in the least. But, that's the M.O. of a loser, runner-up, taking potshots at the competition even though Apple is also a platform that, though minuscule compared to the Windows PC crowd, hosts a number of their bloated Apps. 
    Microsoft has said publically how frustrated they are that Apple denies publishing mobile Xbox cloud games in a Netflix-style app browse-and-click-play directory. They hope this will solve their issue, I suppose 😞
    williamlondon
  • Reply 56 of 148
    Are their alternative Xbox stores? Can I side load games onto my Xbox?
    Microsoft allows alternative payment methods in the store, and their cut is only 12%, not 30%. It is a world of difference. A 30% cut simply for digital distribution today is frankly absurd. (Looking at you too, Steam.)
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 57 of 148
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,762member
    tmay said:
    Apple is much too successful - we need to stop it now! -- Microsoft

    Microsoft is pretty pathetic, and Apple's privacy terms rankle Microsoft's nerves. Too bad Windows doesn't have the same privacy safeguards - with Windows attempting to force everything through Edge.

    Microsoft runs their own closed ecosystem with XBox, so it's a lot of Microsoft calling the kettle black.

    The real monopoly is in the enterprise software realm where Microsoft keeps boosting prices for their good enough software.

    What really pisses off Microsoft is that they don't have access to Apple Silicon ARM processors, so Windows ARM will run faster on Apple hardware than on their OEMs - or indeed on their own surface machines.
    Microsoft has a point here. In the 90s it was so successful it almost killed Apple. On the other hand, Steve Jobs resurrected Apple without having to stop Microsoft. 
    Worth noting Microsoft invested in Apple in the 90's. Apple may owe Microsoft to a degree.
    $150M and Microsoft made easy money off of the return. The reason that MS agreed to provide the $150M and MS Office for 5 years, was that MS had been caught using some of Apple's Quicktime IP. 

    What Apple owes is a tip of the hat to MS for keeping its corpulent ass focused on x86, killing its chances of success in mobile. 
    x86 has nothing to do with Microsoft's failure of Windows. The mobile OS's ran ARM, MIPS, and a third architecture. When they pivoted to Windows Phone it ran ARM.

    They took their eye off the ball. Simple
    FFS, they called it "Windows Phone" to leverage their existing PC market, and it was the same business model of licensing as Windows on x86. It failed because Android OS was "open", it wasn't, and isn't really, iPhone was dominant in status, revenue, and profits, and MS couldn't compete against "free" Android OS.

    Now MS having failed at a Windows phone is leveraging Android OS on their hardware.

    Woopdeedo!


    williamlondon
  • Reply 58 of 148
    mbdrake76 said:
    Beats said:

    I can install anything in my Mac too, including Windows!! Can’t do that on a windows machine.

    And they allow 3rd party payments and stores? Heck I’m setting up shop on Xbox selling crappy games then. 
    True, but Apple is the one that's not allowing macOS to legally run on Windows/generic x86_64 boxes.  But that's an intended design.  Generic x86_64 boxes were designed to run all manner of hardware and operating systems, whereas Macs are very hardware-specific and meant to keep things as simple as possible.  That Macs could run Windows natively or through virtualisation during their Intel period was a bonus.  Microsoft has sided with Qualcomm when it comes to Windows ARM, and that's their choice to do so - though there shouldn't be anything to allow them to work with Apple to get a Windows ARM Boot Camp working.
    Microsoft’s response so far, is: nothing to announce at this point in time.
  • Reply 59 of 148
    Are their alternative Xbox stores? Can I side load games onto my Xbox?
    For real not to mention didn't Microsoft just absorb activision blizzard, way to distract the government Microsoft 
    williamlondonBeats
  • Reply 60 of 148
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,094member
    Are their alternative Xbox stores? Can I side load games onto my Xbox?
    That’s a ridiculous comparison.  Xbox has around 100 million active users; iOS is nearing 2 billion. Xbox is limited to games; iOS is used in devices that are used in just about every facet of one’s life. 
    williamlondon
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