Apple wants 27% commission for Dutch apps using third-party payments

AppleInsiderAppleInsider
Posted:
in iOS edited February 2022
Following changes to the App Store to comply with the Netherlands law, Apple has revealed that it will cut its 30% commission to 27% for eligible apps.




Apple intends to continue disputing the Netherlands ruling that says it has to allow the developers of dating apps to provide alternative payment methods. However, it is complying with the order and having first detailed how developers can use third-party systems, has now revealed its fees.

"Apple will charge a 27% commission on the price paid by the user, net of value-added taxes," says Apple in an updated support document on its developer site. "This is a reduced rate that excludes value related to payment processing and related activities."

"Developers will be responsible for the collection and remittance of any applicable taxes," it continues, "such as the Netherlands' value-added tax (VAT), for sales processed by a third-party payment provider."

In a new, extra document called "Additional details available for dating apps in the Netherlands," Apple says it is appealing the Dutch ruling. And also encourages developers to continue working with the App Store as they have done.

"Developers of dating apps who want to continue using Apple's in-app purchase system," it says, "which we believe is the safest and most secure way for users to purchase digital goods and services, may do so and no further action is needed."

It also stresses that if a developer switches to an alternative system, Apple "will not be aware of purchases" and so won't be able to assist users "with refunds, purchase history, subscription management," and so on.

Apple further explains that a condition of using alternative payment systems s that developers will be required to report sales -- and that Apple has audit rights.

"Failure to pay Apple's commission could result in the offset of proceeds owed to you in other markets," continues Apple. It also threatens "removal of your app from the App Store or removal from the Apple Developer program."

It's not clear how this applies a developer making less than $1 million in sales, where Apple charges 15%.

Apple and Google are both being forced to make a similar change in South Korea. There the new laws apply to all developers, not just to those making dating apps, and Apple has been criticized for not providing the authorities with detailed compliance plans.

Google has similarly been asked for more detail, but it's also been criticized for how it is reducing its service charge by just 4%.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 61
    aderutteraderutter Posts: 604member
    It’s good to finally have clarity from Apple (for those that needed it) that in-app purchases are simply a means to unlock functionality in an app, be it views of peoples profiles or “virtual coins” in a game.

    Either way it is in-app functionality with no physical product only a digital service.

    As such, Apple are due their cut for payment of the digital service/product - just as the judge in the Epic case stated.

    The only thing they have to do in S.Korea, the Netherlands and likely other soon to follow territories is allow an “alternative payment processing method” but not relinquish their cut of the sale that excludes the financial processing aspect. The result will be that practically nobody bothers using an alternative payment method.

    Basically, the cheap ass developers wanted to keep all the in-app payment revenue, not just the payment processing fee from the credit card company. The Epic case showed what would happen - it’s Apple’ platform and they are due their cut just like MS on XBox.

    edited February 2022 fahlmansocalbrianBeatsradarthekatmaximaraspock1234uraharawatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 61
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    Apple should charge 35%

    30% store fee and 5% to cover the hassle, customer support inquiries and stupidity of lawsuits against Apple if something were to go wrong and Apple is sued etc.
    JanNLviclauyycaderutterradarthekatKTRwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 61
    Stabitha_ChristieStabitha_Christie Posts: 439member
    Beats said:
    Apple should charge 35%

    30% store fee and 5% to cover the hassle, customer support inquiries and stupidity of lawsuits against Apple if something were to go wrong and Apple is sued etc.
    It’s always perplexing when people think corporations should act like children throwing a tantrum. 
    edited February 2022 muthuk_vanalingamshareef777mike1crowleydarkvadermikethemartianwilliamlondonTRAGuraharawatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 61
    CheeseFreezeCheeseFreeze Posts: 1,249member
    Beats said:
    Apple should charge 35%

    30% store fee and 5% to cover the hassle, customer support inquiries and stupidity of lawsuits against Apple if something were to go wrong and Apple is sued etc.
    This would only fuel the argument that Apple is abusing their monopolist/duopolist position for a generic computing platform like iOS/iPadOS, because it comes across as a 'punishment' following a national government ruling.
    edited February 2022 williamlondonurahara
  • Reply 5 of 61
    darelrexdarelrex Posts: 138member
    Stabitha_Christie said:

    It’s always perplexing when people think corporations should act like children throwing an [sic] tantrum. 
    You mean, like Epic Games?
    fahlmanBeatsmike1lkruppviclauyycihatescreennamesradarthekatdewmeKTRgenovelle
  • Reply 6 of 61
    Cesar Battistini MazieroCesar Battistini Maziero Posts: 339member
    Apple charges what the market charges. 

    Microsoft charges 30%
    So does Google. 

    People choose Apple exactly because it's hassle free, if we start dealing with fragmentation on where apps come from, how to pay, where to go for updates on the apps etc.
    We might as well go to Android, but I choose to buy a more expensive phone for my grandma, because I know she will not run into trouble.

    williamlondonqwerty52maximarawatto_cobradarelrex
  • Reply 7 of 61
    croprcropr Posts: 1,124member

    Beats said:
    Apple should charge 35%

    30% store fee and 5% to cover the hassle, customer support inquiries and stupidity of lawsuits against Apple if something were to go wrong and Apple is sued etc.

    That would be extremely unwise.  In most countries, you can appeal but not bypass a decision of a judge.  This would not only result to heavy fines but the EU  commission might see as a proof of abuse of monopoly of the Apple App store towards the iOS app developers.

    Even with the 27% Apple is giving the wrong signal to the EU commission
    lkruppdarkvaderwilliamlondonTRAG
  • Reply 8 of 61
    Stabitha_ChristieStabitha_Christie Posts: 439member
    darelrex said:
    Stabitha_Christie said:

    It’s always perplexing when people think corporations should act like children throwing an [sic] tantrum. 
    You mean, like Epic Games?
    It really doesn’t matter what company it is, I’d be perplexed why someone would suggest they act like a child. 
    mikethemartianwilliamlondonKTRwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 61
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    Stabitha_Christie said:
    darelrex said:
    Stabitha_Christie said:

    It’s always perplexing when people think corporations should act like children throwing an [sic] tantrum. 
    You mean, like Epic Games?
    It really doesn’t matter what company it is, I’d be perplexed why someone would suggest they act like a child. 
    So Apple should deal with all the extra baggage why? Because “they’re rich”?

    Maybe 27% plus 5% for all the extra crap and work(yes, Apple employees actually have to WORK) this stupid law would require.

    You're assuming, like Epic Games, that everything is free. Fu** that.
    williamlondonmaximara
  • Reply 10 of 61
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,284member
    cropr said:

    Beats said:
    Apple should charge 35%

    30% store fee and 5% to cover the hassle, customer support inquiries and stupidity of lawsuits against Apple if something were to go wrong and Apple is sued etc.

    That would be extremely unwise.  In most countries, you can appeal but not bypass a decision of a judge.  This would not only result to heavy fines but the EU  commission might see as a proof of abuse of monopoly of the Apple App store towards the iOS app developers.

    Even with the 27% Apple is giving the wrong signal to the EU commission

    Why? Sounds perfectly reasonable. It's their normal 30% commission less 3% for payment processing.
    foregoneconclusionwilliamlondonBeatsradarthekaturaharawatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 61
    Stabitha_ChristieStabitha_Christie Posts: 439member
    Beats said:
    Stabitha_Christie said:
    darelrex said:
    Stabitha_Christie said:

    It’s always perplexing when people think corporations should act like children throwing an [sic] tantrum. 
    You mean, like Epic Games?
    It really doesn’t matter what company it is, I’d be perplexed why someone would suggest they act like a child. 
    So Apple should deal with all the extra baggage why? Because “they’re rich”?

    Maybe 27% plus 5% for all the extra crap and work(yes, Apple employees actually have to WORK) this stupid law would require.

    You're assuming, like Epic Games, that everything is free. Fu** that.
    Why you and the other person brought Epic into the conversation is just strange. 

    You are assuming there is “extra crap” Apple will have to do and also have assume they price of said “extra crap”.

    Here’s what we know. Apple has looked at the situation and has decided what a reasonable cost os for developers that don’t use IAP. They have a far better understanding of what work is involved in their solution than you do abs this is 27% is where they landed. I am 100% certain that Apple has better insight and isn’t just plucking numbers out of thin air like you are. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 61
    beowulfschmidtbeowulfschmidt Posts: 2,132member
    Stabitha_Christie said:
    Beats said:
    Apple should charge 35%

    30% store fee and 5% to cover the hassle, customer support inquiries and stupidity of lawsuits against Apple if something were to go wrong and Apple is sued etc.
    It’s always perplexing when people think corporations should act like children throwing a tantrum. 
    It's not perplexing at all. 😉
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 61
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    I wonder if there will even be any uptake by other payment providers given how much effort it will be to put together, the limited market of Dutch dating apps, the effective price ceiling of 3%, and the uncertainty around Apple's appeal.  Will be interesting to watch.
    edited February 2022 radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 61
    darkvaderdarkvader Posts: 1,146member
    So instead of charging 30% for payment processing, Apple wants 27% for doing literally nothing at all.


    williamlondon
  • Reply 15 of 61
    Stabitha_ChristieStabitha_Christie Posts: 439member
    crowley said:
    I wonder if there will even be any uptake by other payment providers given how much effort it will be to put together, the limited market of Dutch dating apps, the effective price ceiling of 3%, and the uncertainty around Apple's appeal.  Will be interesting to watch.
    This is the sensible take. It might be worth it for a Dutch company that only offers their dating app in the Netherlands but I can’t see why bigger apps like Tinder would want to bother with the expense of setting up a Dutch entity, paying taxes locally and having to do billing support in Dutch. The market doesn’t seem large enough to justify the costs. 
    williamlondonradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 61
    Stabitha_ChristieStabitha_Christie Posts: 439member
    darkvader said:
    So instead of charging 30% for payment processing, Apple wants 27% for doing literally nothing at all.


    Building the platform that apps run on, creating APIs, creating development tools and hosting apps isn’t nothing. And that is what I can come up with off the top of my head. 
    mike1williamlondonBeatsradarthekatXedbeowulfschmidtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 61
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,284member
    darkvader said:
    So instead of charging 30% for payment processing, Apple wants 27% for doing literally nothing at all.


    Building the platform that apps run on, creating APIs, creating development tools and hosting apps isn’t nothing. And that is what I can come up with off the top of my head. 
    Arguing with a moronic troll is pointless. Just block him.

    edited February 2022 williamlondonXeduraharawatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 61
    Stabitha_ChristieStabitha_Christie Posts: 439member
    mike1 said:
    darkvader said:
    So instead of charging 30% for payment processing, Apple wants 27% for doing literally nothing at all.


    Building the platform that apps run on, creating APIs, creating development tools and hosting apps isn’t nothing. And that is what I can come up with off the top of my head. 
    Arguing with a moronic troll is pointless. Just block him.

    I'm still kinda new here so I'm still trying to suss out what is legitimate conversation and what isn't. Thanks for the insight. 
    mikethemartianmuthuk_vanalingamappleinsideruseruraharawatto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 61
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 755member
    cropr said:

    Beats said:
    Apple should charge 35%

    30% store fee and 5% to cover the hassle, customer support inquiries and stupidity of lawsuits against Apple if something were to go wrong and Apple is sued etc.

    Even with the 27% Apple is giving the wrong signal to the EU commission
    No they're not.  They're signaling that they have the right to monetize their intellectual property at what is clearly the market rate.
    RudeBoyRudywilliamlondonBeatsradarthekaturaharaDetnator
  • Reply 20 of 61
    RudeBoyRudyRudeBoyRudy Posts: 106member
    darkvader said:
    So instead of charging 30% for payment processing, Apple wants 27% for doing literally nothing at all.


    LOL  Low Energy IQ or Troll Master Level? which one is DerpVader?

    Apple - makes the hardware, the OS, the development kits (scary! they charge a HUGE $99 a year to be in the program /s) host your app, access to a massive, dedicated customer base. 

    Why don't you built something and not charge anyone for access to your hard work. See also 'capitalism' 
    williamlondonBeatsmike1Xedmaximarawatto_cobra
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