Apple shareholder group urges a no vote on CEO Tim Cook's $99M pay package

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 67
    Personally 99 seems an insult. What not just it a cool .100 mill.  What’s this rounding down crap.  Haters are just at envy level infinity small petty nobodies. Good on TC take what you can. 
  • Reply 42 of 67
    Xed said:
    All things Apple seem to have become incredibly more complex, not the least is dealing with the now annual macOS releases since 2011.
    The loss of 32 bit app support (Windows does) has been a particular concern (cost/workflow/training) for this life time customer...

    Is the mac still 'a computer for the rest of us…?'
    You're upset that Apple got rid of 32-bit processors and eventually stopped supporting 32-bit architecture? Are you also upset that they did the same for 16-bit and moved to a Unix-like OS?
    To be fair other than expanded memory access and possibly speed I don't understand further benefits of 64 bit, but when apps I license & use no longer work, it matters...

    I'd like to have the option to upgrade on merit or need. Kind of like onboard RAM and storage that means throwing out the baby with the bath water. Is that why $99M is available to a single human...?

    When I search under about this mac I get over 400 hits on 32 bit apps, and more major considerations include losing things like an Adobe Master Collection, which isn't even available for upgrade with a persistent license option, effectively forcing a choice of subscription or abandonment.  

    Even for Acrobat Pro (still available persistent) Adobe wants $450 USD (no upgrade beyond 2 years) while my current version keeps happily doing what is needed with no complaints. At what point are customers being held to ransom...? It certainly feels that way at times, although I assume it serves the developers well, including $99M compensation for a single human... Is that better...?

    I still have a G4 powerbook that runs (for now) including 'Classic' and an entire life's work on the mac... iWeb is another app that I really like, and think is some of the best 'no manual required' intuitive software to ever come from the Steve Jobs era...  32 bit, of course...
    The solution is staring you right in the face — keep living in the past and keep using old software and an old Mac until you die. Let the rest of us move on with technology. Cook's compensation is irrelevant to any of your concerns.
    Well with respect I might suggest we must agree to disagree... I ask if the whole point of orphaning perfectly fuctional software, in cases easier and better designed than 'upgrades' is to feather pockets of vested interests, especially once a gold rush of transition has occurred...

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
    The point is to improve on technology. The premise that it's not an improvement false, despite the fact that you're perfectly happy to cling to old tech. I guarantee that you cannot build a functional modern, responsive website in iWeb. Adobe Creative Suite was a decade ago! Do you have any idea how outdated most of that software is? Just because you find functionality in ancient software doesn't mean the rest of the world should be held back in the dark ages with you. Nobody is stopping you from simply using an old Mac to run old Mac software. Do it. Smarter people have already found modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb.
    Again with respect please define improve...

    I spent many hours looking at alternatives for web authoring... I would be happy to embrace any options that might be "modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb"...

    Please keep in mind that data harvesting or otherwise questionable 'free' options suggest evaluation in a full disclosure context...
    Improve: faster / better / more powerful / more efficient / etc (REALLY?)

    Alternatives to Adobe CS: Affinity suite, Procreate, etc as is well documented just about everywhere including these forums.

    iWeb:  WordPress prebuilt themes with various third party WYSIWYG page builders, and other popular online solutions such as Wix, Squarespace, etc have all undercut the software side of things, and have for years. Adobe probably discontinued Muse, which would've been the modern equivalent of an iWeb type tool years ago, for this reason. Also largely why I got out of this area of work as a general rule as these solutions also undercut bespoke web designer/coders such as myself. I use Panic software's Nova personally, but that's not a WYSIWYG/drag and drop builder, it's for coders. There are various native local apps out there for what you want but no idea if any of them are good or not as I've never used them.

    Needs and the tools to address them change with time. Maybe yours don't, but you're in the extreme minority here.

    Dunno what you're talking about with regard to data harvesting, but as I have suggested in the past, you are probably better served going off grid and living in a Faraday cage with your Snow Leopard Mac and 32 bit apps and zero iCloud and live the life you want to live. 
    edited February 17
  • Reply 43 of 67
    colt033 said:
    Anyone who would want to be paid this much has no moral worth and is totally delusional about their own contribution. He's a lucky guy who ended up running a very rich corporation. Literally anyone could do the job just as well.
    Dumbest thing I've read all day, thanks for the laugh.
    muthuk_vanalingamXed
  • Reply 44 of 67
    I’m not a Tim Cook fan at all. I’m super disappointed with all the ticky tacky  tactics and stunts Apple pulls under his leadership. Wether he is aware of all of it or not, either way not good.  WallStreet loves this guy because he is predictable, and does what they say.  A company that does great on WallStreet doesn’t always translate/mean they are doing well by the customer.  I kinda wish the average consumer was more in the know about this, and especially pertaining to Apple what decisions and things we would have had vs what we do. Anyhow, sad and disappointing to say the least is what comes to mind. 
  • Reply 45 of 67
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 1,307member
    mike54 said:
    This level of greed is obscene. $99 million is just a no no. Not just for Tim Cook but for others too.
    It's totally unjustifiable. The US is slowly being destroyed by runaway greed.

    I was thinking the same.. Yes he has been getting paid considerably less than the other obscenely paid CEO's out there, but my god!

    On average a CEO gets paid 351 times more than an average worker for goodness sake. I am not knocking Tim or the Job he has done over the years, but how much more money do any of these folks need.. seriously? People in this country aren't eating and we are concerned whether a person can/should get paid nearly 100M per year?

    His net worth is $1.5B as it stands. Compensation from stock incentives plus a few million a year in salary has treated him very well over the years.

    What in the world would he or any of these folks need more money for? It boggles my mind. B)

    robin huber
  • Reply 46 of 67
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,196member
    Xed said:
    All things Apple seem to have become incredibly more complex, not the least is dealing with the now annual macOS releases since 2011.
    The loss of 32 bit app support (Windows does) has been a particular concern (cost/workflow/training) for this life time customer...

    Is the mac still 'a computer for the rest of us…?'
    You're upset that Apple got rid of 32-bit processors and eventually stopped supporting 32-bit architecture? Are you also upset that they did the same for 16-bit and moved to a Unix-like OS?
    To be fair other than expanded memory access and possibly speed I don't understand further benefits of 64 bit, but when apps I license & use no longer work, it matters...

    I'd like to have the option to upgrade on merit or need. Kind of like onboard RAM and storage that means throwing out the baby with the bath water. Is that why $99M is available to a single human...?

    When I search under about this mac I get over 400 hits on 32 bit apps, and more major considerations include losing things like an Adobe Master Collection, which isn't even available for upgrade with a persistent license option, effectively forcing a choice of subscription or abandonment.  

    Even for Acrobat Pro (still available persistent) Adobe wants $450 USD (no upgrade beyond 2 years) while my current version keeps happily doing what is needed with no complaints. At what point are customers being held to ransom...? It certainly feels that way at times, although I assume it serves the developers well, including $99M compensation for a single human... Is that better...?

    I still have a G4 powerbook that runs (for now) including 'Classic' and an entire life's work on the mac... iWeb is another app that I really like, and think is some of the best 'no manual required' intuitive software to ever come from the Steve Jobs era...  32 bit, of course...
    I was an Adobe aficionado for years, dedicated to Photoshop, Illustrator, PageMaker > InDesign, and so on.  Then subscription happened.  I chose abandonment.
  • Reply 47 of 67
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,196member
    Xed said:
    All things Apple seem to have become incredibly more complex, not the least is dealing with the now annual macOS releases since 2011.
    The loss of 32 bit app support (Windows does) has been a particular concern (cost/workflow/training) for this life time customer...

    Is the mac still 'a computer for the rest of us…?'
    You're upset that Apple got rid of 32-bit processors and eventually stopped supporting 32-bit architecture? Are you also upset that they did the same for 16-bit and moved to a Unix-like OS?
    To be fair other than expanded memory access and possibly speed I don't understand further benefits of 64 bit, but when apps I license & use no longer work, it matters...

    I'd like to have the option to upgrade on merit or need. Kind of like onboard RAM and storage that means throwing out the baby with the bath water. Is that why $99M is available to a single human...?

    When I search under about this mac I get over 400 hits on 32 bit apps, and more major considerations include losing things like an Adobe Master Collection, which isn't even available for upgrade with a persistent license option, effectively forcing a choice of subscription or abandonment.  

    Even for Acrobat Pro (still available persistent) Adobe wants $450 USD (no upgrade beyond 2 years) while my current version keeps happily doing what is needed with no complaints. At what point are customers being held to ransom...? It certainly feels that way at times, although I assume it serves the developers well, including $99M compensation for a single human... Is that better...?

    I still have a G4 powerbook that runs (for now) including 'Classic' and an entire life's work on the mac... iWeb is another app that I really like, and think is some of the best 'no manual required' intuitive software to ever come from the Steve Jobs era...  32 bit, of course...
    The solution is staring you right in the face — keep living in the past and keep using old software and an old Mac until you die. Let the rest of us move on with technology. Cook's compensation is irrelevant to any of your concerns.
    Well with respect I might suggest we must agree to disagree... I ask if the whole point of orphaning perfectly fuctional software, in cases easier and better designed than 'upgrades' is to feather pockets of vested interests, especially once a gold rush of transition has occurred...

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
    The point is to improve on technology. The premise that it's not an improvement false, despite the fact that you're perfectly happy to cling to old tech. I guarantee that you cannot build a functional modern, responsive website in iWeb. Adobe Creative Suite was a decade ago! Do you have any idea how outdated most of that software is? Just because you find functionality in ancient software doesn't mean the rest of the world should be held back in the dark ages with you. Nobody is stopping you from simply using an old Mac to run old Mac software. Do it. Smarter people have already found modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb.
    I'm not sure what you are trying to ague.  Undoubtedly, Adobe's software had made huge improvements over the years.  But it can be argued that it has taken a few steps backward as well.  From my point of view, it's improvements did not keep up with the escalation in pricing on the consumer end.  Adobe chose to target the business market and abandon non-business users.  In the case of Photoshop, Pixelmator was a more than adequate replacement.  Adobe's decision may have been  good from a revenue standpoint.  But as someone who used their products for mostly personal use, the value proposition wasn't good enough to stay with them.  Microsoft still caters to the home user market.  Why not Adobe?  It seems a lost opportunity.
  • Reply 48 of 67
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,196member
    mac_dog said:
    TBH, how much money does a person need? I say vote no. Tim should do the ethically right thing and turn this down. I see clients on the brink of homelessness eating moldy danishes. To me, it’s obscene. 
    Explain how Apple paying its top leadership somehow takes money away from your clients. Now extrapolate that to the fact Cook has pledged to give away the bulk of his wealth to charity, and what Apple would do with it if it had simply kept the money, because shareholders voted no. Guessing you never took logic 101 in school, so this will be a good exercise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
    If you're talking business 101, it's a dubious proposition to conclude that CEO salaries fit on a true price/elasticity curve for employee value generated, especially when considering the value lower level employees contribute to overall revenue and profitability.  Ample evidence exists to demonstrate it's a self perpetuating club.  CEOs who routinely sit as board members on other companies have every incentive to raise CEO compensation so that, in turn, they can feel justify their taking own breathtaking compensation.
  • Reply 49 of 67
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,196member
    Xed said:
    All things Apple seem to have become incredibly more complex, not the least is dealing with the now annual macOS releases since 2011.
    The loss of 32 bit app support (Windows does) has been a particular concern (cost/workflow/training) for this life time customer...

    Is the mac still 'a computer for the rest of us…?'
    You're upset that Apple got rid of 32-bit processors and eventually stopped supporting 32-bit architecture? Are you also upset that they did the same for 16-bit and moved to a Unix-like OS?
    To be fair other than expanded memory access and possibly speed I don't understand further benefits of 64 bit, but when apps I license & use no longer work, it matters...

    I'd like to have the option to upgrade on merit or need. Kind of like onboard RAM and storage that means throwing out the baby with the bath water. Is that why $99M is available to a single human...?

    When I search under about this mac I get over 400 hits on 32 bit apps, and more major considerations include losing things like an Adobe Master Collection, which isn't even available for upgrade with a persistent license option, effectively forcing a choice of subscription or abandonment.  

    Even for Acrobat Pro (still available persistent) Adobe wants $450 USD (no upgrade beyond 2 years) while my current version keeps happily doing what is needed with no complaints. At what point are customers being held to ransom...? It certainly feels that way at times, although I assume it serves the developers well, including $99M compensation for a single human... Is that better...?

    I still have a G4 powerbook that runs (for now) including 'Classic' and an entire life's work on the mac... iWeb is another app that I really like, and think is some of the best 'no manual required' intuitive software to ever come from the Steve Jobs era...  32 bit, of course...
    The solution is staring you right in the face — keep living in the past and keep using old software and an old Mac until you die. Let the rest of us move on with technology. Cook's compensation is irrelevant to any of your concerns.
    Well with respect I might suggest we must agree to disagree... I ask if the whole point of orphaning perfectly fuctional software, in cases easier and better designed than 'upgrades' is to feather pockets of vested interests, especially once a gold rush of transition has occurred...

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
    The point is to improve on technology. ...
    Hmmm.  And here I was thinking that the point was to improve the value proposition to the user.  Silly me.
    edited February 17
  • Reply 50 of 67
    The reason that Apple can ship products in the volume they do is because of Cook's supply chain prowess.  I still remember the months of delay when a product was released and when it shipped.  Apple always had great design skills but Cook enable Apple to deliver on that promise.  It took some time to get it right but in the last 20 years he has hardly missed a step on supply.
    That's the reason why Apple has the market cap it has now and why it is the most profitable electronics company in the world.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 51 of 67
    XedXed Posts: 1,513member
    JWSC said:
    Xed said:
    All things Apple seem to have become incredibly more complex, not the least is dealing with the now annual macOS releases since 2011.
    The loss of 32 bit app support (Windows does) has been a particular concern (cost/workflow/training) for this life time customer...

    Is the mac still 'a computer for the rest of us…?'
    You're upset that Apple got rid of 32-bit processors and eventually stopped supporting 32-bit architecture? Are you also upset that they did the same for 16-bit and moved to a Unix-like OS?
    To be fair other than expanded memory access and possibly speed I don't understand further benefits of 64 bit, but when apps I license & use no longer work, it matters...

    I'd like to have the option to upgrade on merit or need. Kind of like onboard RAM and storage that means throwing out the baby with the bath water. Is that why $99M is available to a single human...?

    When I search under about this mac I get over 400 hits on 32 bit apps, and more major considerations include losing things like an Adobe Master Collection, which isn't even available for upgrade with a persistent license option, effectively forcing a choice of subscription or abandonment.  

    Even for Acrobat Pro (still available persistent) Adobe wants $450 USD (no upgrade beyond 2 years) while my current version keeps happily doing what is needed with no complaints. At what point are customers being held to ransom...? It certainly feels that way at times, although I assume it serves the developers well, including $99M compensation for a single human... Is that better...?

    I still have a G4 powerbook that runs (for now) including 'Classic' and an entire life's work on the mac... iWeb is another app that I really like, and think is some of the best 'no manual required' intuitive software to ever come from the Steve Jobs era...  32 bit, of course...
    The solution is staring you right in the face — keep living in the past and keep using old software and an old Mac until you die. Let the rest of us move on with technology. Cook's compensation is irrelevant to any of your concerns.
    Well with respect I might suggest we must agree to disagree... I ask if the whole point of orphaning perfectly fuctional software, in cases easier and better designed than 'upgrades' is to feather pockets of vested interests, especially once a gold rush of transition has occurred...

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
    The point is to improve on technology. ...
    Hmmm.  And here I was thinking that the point was to improve the value proposition to the user.  Silly me.
    Doesn't improving on the technology lead to that? I recall arguments that SSDs are a lot more costly per GB than HDDs, so if you remove reliability, energy, and performance from the equation then I guess you could argue that it's a worse value for those needing more capacity at a lower price, but is that really fair? Should a company not offer SSDs because of that? What about the value of the aforementioned benefits of the SSD?

    Personally, I find that the "value proposition" of this user has been greatly increased by the advances with 2021 16" M1 Max MBP… which is all based on improved technology.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 52 of 67
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,527member
    Wealth disparity has become immoral. No one person deserves more money than they could possibly spend even if they spent full time trying to do it, with one exception: a person who, single-handedly saved the earth or it’s creatures from imminent total destruction. Don’t think Tim or other corp heads have done that. Yes, Cook has done an exemplary job and I personally have profited from it. But there is too much need in the world for a small group of people to hoard 90% of all wealth. 
    Wealth disparity is definitely a fact of life in today’s society. I don’t have the most recent percentages, which have probably skewed even more favorably for the upper 0.1% since the onset of the Covid pandemic, but the greatest percentage of wealth, about 60%, is actually held by about 9.9% of the population. That group includes a lot of educated folks and business owners and those who invest and contribute a lot to the economy as a whole, people who watch the stock market, and play by the rules that others put in place.

    Yeah, 60% of the total wealth is a big chunk, and it’s remained at that approximate percentage for decades, in the hands of the 9.9 percenters. But what I find far more telling is that the top (approximate) 0.1% of the population have as much wealth as the bottom 90% of the population, or about 20% each. Unlike the 9.9 percenters, the percentage of wealth held by the top 0.1% has steadily increased over the decades at the expense of the bottom 90% of the population. The 0.1 percenters are in many cases  the ones who make the rules that we all have to follow.

    So yeah, the wealthiest of the wealthy continue to get wealthier, but they are doing it largely on the backs of the 90% of the population whose wealth is actually declining (as a percentage). That should tell you something, especially if you consider those who are making the rules are in the group that is most benefiting from the wealth disparity. It’s no surprise then that those who make the rules will oftentimes play to the grievances of those who are benefiting the least from the wealth related rules that the 0.1 percenters are crafting. The 90 percenters are a huge voting pool that’s being slowly bled to death when it comes to wealth accumulation, and it’s largely being done by the 0.1 percenters.
    edited February 17 JWSCmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 53 of 67
    He's got lots of money. I'm sure he'll get out of bed and go to work on much less, and if he didn't, get someone else. It's a big world. He'll be fine.
    People tend to think that he's "running" things at Apple. He's is directing some of the people that are running things as Apple.

    I'd much rather have Apple spend the money on 1,000 $150,000/yr. software engineers and have them work on fixing as many bugs as they can.
    For a year, no big new OS features. Just spend it reducing their technical debt like Jobs had them on Snow Leopard.
    I think Tim Cook maybe runs a few internal apps, checks mail on his phone, and wears an Apple Watch, but he's coddled and tended to.
    He doesn't really use Apple products to create anything so he either doesn't know, or doesn't care about usability or developers.

    Document every API element like they used to. Provide useful working code examples. Like they used to.
    Quit pandering just to the photogenic narcissists and fix things.
    And please make iPadOS something worth running on iPad Pro.
    hentaiboy
  • Reply 54 of 67
    Xed said:
    All things Apple seem to have become incredibly more complex, not the least is dealing with the now annual macOS releases since 2011.
    The loss of 32 bit app support (Windows does) has been a particular concern (cost/workflow/training) for this life time customer...

    Is the mac still 'a computer for the rest of us…?'
    You're upset that Apple got rid of 32-bit processors and eventually stopped supporting 32-bit architecture? Are you also upset that they did the same for 16-bit and moved to a Unix-like OS?
    To be fair other than expanded memory access and possibly speed I don't understand further benefits of 64 bit, but when apps I license & use no longer work, it matters...

    I'd like to have the option to upgrade on merit or need. Kind of like onboard RAM and storage that means throwing out the baby with the bath water. Is that why $99M is available to a single human...?

    When I search under about this mac I get over 400 hits on 32 bit apps, and more major considerations include losing things like an Adobe Master Collection, which isn't even available for upgrade with a persistent license option, effectively forcing a choice of subscription or abandonment.  

    Even for Acrobat Pro (still available persistent) Adobe wants $450 USD (no upgrade beyond 2 years) while my current version keeps happily doing what is needed with no complaints. At what point are customers being held to ransom...? It certainly feels that way at times, although I assume it serves the developers well, including $99M compensation for a single human... Is that better...?

    I still have a G4 powerbook that runs (for now) including 'Classic' and an entire life's work on the mac... iWeb is another app that I really like, and think is some of the best 'no manual required' intuitive software to ever come from the Steve Jobs era...  32 bit, of course...
    The solution is staring you right in the face — keep living in the past and keep using old software and an old Mac until you die. Let the rest of us move on with technology. Cook's compensation is irrelevant to any of your concerns.
    Well with respect I might suggest we must agree to disagree... I ask if the whole point of orphaning perfectly fuctional software, in cases easier and better designed than 'upgrades' is to feather pockets of vested interests, especially once a gold rush of transition has occurred...

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
    The point is to improve on technology. The premise that it's not an improvement false, despite the fact that you're perfectly happy to cling to old tech. I guarantee that you cannot build a functional modern, responsive website in iWeb. Adobe Creative Suite was a decade ago! Do you have any idea how outdated most of that software is? Just because you find functionality in ancient software doesn't mean the rest of the world should be held back in the dark ages with you. Nobody is stopping you from simply using an old Mac to run old Mac software. Do it. Smarter people have already found modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb.
    Again with respect please define improve...

    I spent many hours looking at alternatives for web authoring... I would be happy to embrace any options that might be "modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb"...

    Please keep in mind that data harvesting or otherwise questionable 'free' options suggest evaluation in a full disclosure context...
    Improve: faster / better / more powerful / more efficient / etc (REALLY?)

    Alternatives to Adobe CS: Affinity suite, Procreate, etc as is well documented just about everywhere including these forums.

    iWeb:  WordPress prebuilt themes with various third party WYSIWYG page builders, and other popular online solutions such as Wix, Squarespace, etc have all undercut the software side of things, and have for years. Adobe probably discontinued Muse, which would've been the modern equivalent of an iWeb type tool years ago, for this reason. Also largely why I got out of this area of work as a general rule as these solutions also undercut bespoke web designer/coders such as myself. I use Panic software's Nova personally, but that's not a WYSIWYG/drag and drop builder, it's for coders. There are various native local apps out there for what you want but no idea if any of them are good or not as I've never used them.

    Needs and the tools to address them change with time. Maybe yours don't, but you're in the extreme minority here.

    Dunno what you're talking about with regard to data harvesting, but as I have suggested in the past, you are probably better served going off grid and living in a Faraday cage with your Snow Leopard Mac and 32 bit apps and zero iCloud and live the life you want to live. 
    Well before iWeb there was PageMill which was a real help after coding by hand and using PS2 to try and optimize images, so I am open to upgrades. GoLive had a content editor that might have been a compromise solution however once venturing into CSS it became a burden and required lots of manual references. And then Adobe killed it.  I looked at Wordpress, and Wix, and Sandvox, and on it goes, with thanks for the suggestions... Dreamweaver too was on the list.  I guess as you say the definition of good comes in to play, and for a simple elegant image optimized html website that can be content edited and updated using drag and drop to a private server ftp partition in a few minutes I have not yet found an alternative that works as well, even with the features that have been lost over time... All Apple had to do was support 32 bit apps - I don't know how that would compromise macOS, and I might guess it has something to do with metal, or driving software upgrades for developers to attract them to the platform, yet a few I've asked indicated they were worn out...  Nuff said...
  • Reply 55 of 67
    XedXed Posts: 1,513member
    Xed said:
    All things Apple seem to have become incredibly more complex, not the least is dealing with the now annual macOS releases since 2011.
    The loss of 32 bit app support (Windows does) has been a particular concern (cost/workflow/training) for this life time customer...

    Is the mac still 'a computer for the rest of us…?'
    You're upset that Apple got rid of 32-bit processors and eventually stopped supporting 32-bit architecture? Are you also upset that they did the same for 16-bit and moved to a Unix-like OS?
    To be fair other than expanded memory access and possibly speed I don't understand further benefits of 64 bit, but when apps I license & use no longer work, it matters...

    I'd like to have the option to upgrade on merit or need. Kind of like onboard RAM and storage that means throwing out the baby with the bath water. Is that why $99M is available to a single human...?

    When I search under about this mac I get over 400 hits on 32 bit apps, and more major considerations include losing things like an Adobe Master Collection, which isn't even available for upgrade with a persistent license option, effectively forcing a choice of subscription or abandonment.  

    Even for Acrobat Pro (still available persistent) Adobe wants $450 USD (no upgrade beyond 2 years) while my current version keeps happily doing what is needed with no complaints. At what point are customers being held to ransom...? It certainly feels that way at times, although I assume it serves the developers well, including $99M compensation for a single human... Is that better...?

    I still have a G4 powerbook that runs (for now) including 'Classic' and an entire life's work on the mac... iWeb is another app that I really like, and think is some of the best 'no manual required' intuitive software to ever come from the Steve Jobs era...  32 bit, of course...
    The solution is staring you right in the face — keep living in the past and keep using old software and an old Mac until you die. Let the rest of us move on with technology. Cook's compensation is irrelevant to any of your concerns.
    Well with respect I might suggest we must agree to disagree... I ask if the whole point of orphaning perfectly fuctional software, in cases easier and better designed than 'upgrades' is to feather pockets of vested interests, especially once a gold rush of transition has occurred...

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
    The point is to improve on technology. The premise that it's not an improvement false, despite the fact that you're perfectly happy to cling to old tech. I guarantee that you cannot build a functional modern, responsive website in iWeb. Adobe Creative Suite was a decade ago! Do you have any idea how outdated most of that software is? Just because you find functionality in ancient software doesn't mean the rest of the world should be held back in the dark ages with you. Nobody is stopping you from simply using an old Mac to run old Mac software. Do it. Smarter people have already found modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb.
    Again with respect please define improve...

    I spent many hours looking at alternatives for web authoring... I would be happy to embrace any options that might be "modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb"...

    Please keep in mind that data harvesting or otherwise questionable 'free' options suggest evaluation in a full disclosure context...
    Improve: faster / better / more powerful / more efficient / etc (REALLY?)

    Alternatives to Adobe CS: Affinity suite, Procreate, etc as is well documented just about everywhere including these forums.

    iWeb:  WordPress prebuilt themes with various third party WYSIWYG page builders, and other popular online solutions such as Wix, Squarespace, etc have all undercut the software side of things, and have for years. Adobe probably discontinued Muse, which would've been the modern equivalent of an iWeb type tool years ago, for this reason. Also largely why I got out of this area of work as a general rule as these solutions also undercut bespoke web designer/coders such as myself. I use Panic software's Nova personally, but that's not a WYSIWYG/drag and drop builder, it's for coders. There are various native local apps out there for what you want but no idea if any of them are good or not as I've never used them.

    Needs and the tools to address them change with time. Maybe yours don't, but you're in the extreme minority here.

    Dunno what you're talking about with regard to data harvesting, but as I have suggested in the past, you are probably better served going off grid and living in a Faraday cage with your Snow Leopard Mac and 32 bit apps and zero iCloud and live the life you want to live. 
    Well before iWeb there was PageMill which was a real help after coding by hand and using PS2 to try and optimize images, so I am open to upgrades. GoLive had a content editor that might have been a compromise solution however once venturing into CSS it became a burden and required lots of manual references. And then Adobe killed it.  I looked at Wordpress, and Wix, and Sandvox, and on it goes, with thanks for the suggestions... Dreamweaver too was on the list.  I guess as you say the definition of good comes in to play, and for a simple elegant image optimized html website that can be content edited and updated using drag and drop to a private server ftp partition in a few minutes I have not yet found an alternative that works as well, even with the features that have been lost over time... All Apple had to do was support 32 bit apps - I don't know how that would compromise macOS, and I might guess it has something to do with metal, or driving software upgrades for developers to attract them to the platform, yet a few I've asked indicated they were worn out...  Nuff said…
    1) In terms of ease and speed to deploying complex, modern websites  have found SqaureSpace to be  the best options. Sure, you can't host it on your own server, but total cost is exceedingly lower with SS for advanced coding of HTML, JS, CSS, for tried designs that look great on every modern device size. Not bad for $12/month.

    2) Apple is the only one that offered true 32-bit and 64-bit support in their OS with their Fat Binaries. They've now supported Universal Binaries TWICE with their included Rosetta, but you wish them to support AArch_64, AArch_32, x86_64, and x86_32 because you're still holding onto a bygone that started changing 16 years ago?
    fastasleep
  • Reply 56 of 67
    Xed said:
    All things Apple seem to have become incredibly more complex, not the least is dealing with the now annual macOS releases since 2011.
    The loss of 32 bit app support (Windows does) has been a particular concern (cost/workflow/training) for this life time customer...

    Is the mac still 'a computer for the rest of us…?'
    You're upset that Apple got rid of 32-bit processors and eventually stopped supporting 32-bit architecture? Are you also upset that they did the same for 16-bit and moved to a Unix-like OS?
    To be fair other than expanded memory access and possibly speed I don't understand further benefits of 64 bit, but when apps I license & use no longer work, it matters...

    I'd like to have the option to upgrade on merit or need. Kind of like onboard RAM and storage that means throwing out the baby with the bath water. Is that why $99M is available to a single human...?

    When I search under about this mac I get over 400 hits on 32 bit apps, and more major considerations include losing things like an Adobe Master Collection, which isn't even available for upgrade with a persistent license option, effectively forcing a choice of subscription or abandonment.  

    Even for Acrobat Pro (still available persistent) Adobe wants $450 USD (no upgrade beyond 2 years) while my current version keeps happily doing what is needed with no complaints. At what point are customers being held to ransom...? It certainly feels that way at times, although I assume it serves the developers well, including $99M compensation for a single human... Is that better...?

    I still have a G4 powerbook that runs (for now) including 'Classic' and an entire life's work on the mac... iWeb is another app that I really like, and think is some of the best 'no manual required' intuitive software to ever come from the Steve Jobs era...  32 bit, of course...
    The solution is staring you right in the face — keep living in the past and keep using old software and an old Mac until you die. Let the rest of us move on with technology. Cook's compensation is irrelevant to any of your concerns.
    Well with respect I might suggest we must agree to disagree... I ask if the whole point of orphaning perfectly fuctional software, in cases easier and better designed than 'upgrades' is to feather pockets of vested interests, especially once a gold rush of transition has occurred...

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
    The point is to improve on technology. The premise that it's not an improvement false, despite the fact that you're perfectly happy to cling to old tech. I guarantee that you cannot build a functional modern, responsive website in iWeb. Adobe Creative Suite was a decade ago! Do you have any idea how outdated most of that software is? Just because you find functionality in ancient software doesn't mean the rest of the world should be held back in the dark ages with you. Nobody is stopping you from simply using an old Mac to run old Mac software. Do it. Smarter people have already found modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb.
    Again with respect please define improve...

    I spent many hours looking at alternatives for web authoring... I would be happy to embrace any options that might be "modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb"...

    Please keep in mind that data harvesting or otherwise questionable 'free' options suggest evaluation in a full disclosure context...
    Improve: faster / better / more powerful / more efficient / etc (REALLY?)

    Alternatives to Adobe CS: Affinity suite, Procreate, etc as is well documented just about everywhere including these forums.

    iWeb:  WordPress prebuilt themes with various third party WYSIWYG page builders, and other popular online solutions such as Wix, Squarespace, etc have all undercut the software side of things, and have for years. Adobe probably discontinued Muse, which would've been the modern equivalent of an iWeb type tool years ago, for this reason. Also largely why I got out of this area of work as a general rule as these solutions also undercut bespoke web designer/coders such as myself. I use Panic software's Nova personally, but that's not a WYSIWYG/drag and drop builder, it's for coders. There are various native local apps out there for what you want but no idea if any of them are good or not as I've never used them.

    Needs and the tools to address them change with time. Maybe yours don't, but you're in the extreme minority here.

    Dunno what you're talking about with regard to data harvesting, but as I have suggested in the past, you are probably better served going off grid and living in a Faraday cage with your Snow Leopard Mac and 32 bit apps and zero iCloud and live the life you want to live. 
    Well before iWeb there was PageMill which was a real help after coding by hand and using PS2 to try and optimize images, so I am open to upgrades. GoLive had a content editor that might have been a compromise solution however once venturing into CSS it became a burden and required lots of manual references. And then Adobe killed it.  I looked at Wordpress, and Wix, and Sandvox, and on it goes, with thanks for the suggestions... Dreamweaver too was on the list.  I guess as you say the definition of good comes in to play, and for a simple elegant image optimized html website that can be content edited and updated using drag and drop to a private server ftp partition in a few minutes I have not yet found an alternative that works as well, even with the features that have been lost over time... All Apple had to do was support 32 bit apps - I don't know how that would compromise macOS, and I might guess it has something to do with metal, or driving software upgrades for developers to attract them to the platform, yet a few I've asked indicated they were worn out...  Nuff said...
    I've kept some legacy computer hardware to operate legacy peripheral hardware that I still like to use. There is no way I would connect that stuff to the current internet, though. Nope, nope, nope. I don't expect that legacy hardware to serve day-to-day purposes, and I don't get angry that new computer hardware doesn't support every legacy device and program I might have.

    Apple's OS works exceptionally well, specifically because they limit variables for what it must support. Simply stopping innovation of new, better versions of computing hardware and software isn't an option. As innovation creates new versions and models, there is, at some point, diminishing returns in supporting a trailing edge of legacy versions and models. An OS that adds 64-bit operation, while continuing in perpetuity to support 32 (why not 16?) bit programs just becomes bloatware. The shift to Apple's own in-house silicon likely also drove that change. As always, your lament that they don't continue to fully support your old gear is countered by the equally predictable and presbyopic complaints each year that the annual announcements of new models and operating systems aren't earth-shattering enough. 
    fastasleep
  • Reply 57 of 67
    I appreciate Tim's Apple efforts... I really do.

    But $99 million, really? 

    Take $2 mil., Tim.. and keep it coming for us too..


  • Reply 58 of 67
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,380member
    The suggestion is moot. Putting aside whether Cook deserves it or not, putting aside if anyone should be paid that much, these things almost never pass and there is NWIH this one will pass. 
    edited February 17
  • Reply 59 of 67
    AppleZulu said:
    Xed said:
    All things Apple seem to have become incredibly more complex, not the least is dealing with the now annual macOS releases since 2011.
    The loss of 32 bit app support (Windows does) has been a particular concern (cost/workflow/training) for this life time customer...

    Is the mac still 'a computer for the rest of us…?'
    You're upset that Apple got rid of 32-bit processors and eventually stopped supporting 32-bit architecture? Are you also upset that they did the same for 16-bit and moved to a Unix-like OS?
    To be fair other than expanded memory access and possibly speed I don't understand further benefits of 64 bit, but when apps I license & use no longer work, it matters...

    I'd like to have the option to upgrade on merit or need. Kind of like onboard RAM and storage that means throwing out the baby with the bath water. Is that why $99M is available to a single human...?

    When I search under about this mac I get over 400 hits on 32 bit apps, and more major considerations include losing things like an Adobe Master Collection, which isn't even available for upgrade with a persistent license option, effectively forcing a choice of subscription or abandonment.  

    Even for Acrobat Pro (still available persistent) Adobe wants $450 USD (no upgrade beyond 2 years) while my current version keeps happily doing what is needed with no complaints. At what point are customers being held to ransom...? It certainly feels that way at times, although I assume it serves the developers well, including $99M compensation for a single human... Is that better...?

    I still have a G4 powerbook that runs (for now) including 'Classic' and an entire life's work on the mac... iWeb is another app that I really like, and think is some of the best 'no manual required' intuitive software to ever come from the Steve Jobs era...  32 bit, of course...
    The solution is staring you right in the face — keep living in the past and keep using old software and an old Mac until you die. Let the rest of us move on with technology. Cook's compensation is irrelevant to any of your concerns.
    Well with respect I might suggest we must agree to disagree... I ask if the whole point of orphaning perfectly fuctional software, in cases easier and better designed than 'upgrades' is to feather pockets of vested interests, especially once a gold rush of transition has occurred...

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
    The point is to improve on technology. The premise that it's not an improvement false, despite the fact that you're perfectly happy to cling to old tech. I guarantee that you cannot build a functional modern, responsive website in iWeb. Adobe Creative Suite was a decade ago! Do you have any idea how outdated most of that software is? Just because you find functionality in ancient software doesn't mean the rest of the world should be held back in the dark ages with you. Nobody is stopping you from simply using an old Mac to run old Mac software. Do it. Smarter people have already found modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb.
    Again with respect please define improve...

    I spent many hours looking at alternatives for web authoring... I would be happy to embrace any options that might be "modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb"...

    Please keep in mind that data harvesting or otherwise questionable 'free' options suggest evaluation in a full disclosure context...
    Improve: faster / better / more powerful / more efficient / etc (REALLY?)

    Alternatives to Adobe CS: Affinity suite, Procreate, etc as is well documented just about everywhere including these forums.

    iWeb:  WordPress prebuilt themes with various third party WYSIWYG page builders, and other popular online solutions such as Wix, Squarespace, etc have all undercut the software side of things, and have for years. Adobe probably discontinued Muse, which would've been the modern equivalent of an iWeb type tool years ago, for this reason. Also largely why I got out of this area of work as a general rule as these solutions also undercut bespoke web designer/coders such as myself. I use Panic software's Nova personally, but that's not a WYSIWYG/drag and drop builder, it's for coders. There are various native local apps out there for what you want but no idea if any of them are good or not as I've never used them.

    Needs and the tools to address them change with time. Maybe yours don't, but you're in the extreme minority here.

    Dunno what you're talking about with regard to data harvesting, but as I have suggested in the past, you are probably better served going off grid and living in a Faraday cage with your Snow Leopard Mac and 32 bit apps and zero iCloud and live the life you want to live. 
    Well before iWeb there was PageMill which was a real help after coding by hand and using PS2 to try and optimize images, so I am open to upgrades. GoLive had a content editor that might have been a compromise solution however once venturing into CSS it became a burden and required lots of manual references. And then Adobe killed it.  I looked at Wordpress, and Wix, and Sandvox, and on it goes, with thanks for the suggestions... Dreamweaver too was on the list.  I guess as you say the definition of good comes in to play, and for a simple elegant image optimized html website that can be content edited and updated using drag and drop to a private server ftp partition in a few minutes I have not yet found an alternative that works as well, even with the features that have been lost over time... All Apple had to do was support 32 bit apps - I don't know how that would compromise macOS, and I might guess it has something to do with metal, or driving software upgrades for developers to attract them to the platform, yet a few I've asked indicated they were worn out...  Nuff said...
    I've kept some legacy computer hardware to operate legacy peripheral hardware that I still like to use. There is no way I would connect that stuff to the current internet, though. Nope, nope, nope. I don't expect that legacy hardware to serve day-to-day purposes, and I don't get angry that new computer hardware doesn't support every legacy device and program I might have.

    Apple's OS works exceptionally well, specifically because they limit variables for what it must support. Simply stopping innovation of new, better versions of computing hardware and software isn't an option. As innovation creates new versions and models, there is, at some point, diminishing returns in supporting a trailing edge of legacy versions and models. An OS that adds 64-bit operation, while continuing in perpetuity to support 32 (why not 16?) bit programs just becomes bloatware. The shift to Apple's own in-house silicon likely also drove that change. As always, your lament that they don't continue to fully support your old gear is countered by the equally predictable and presbyopic complaints each year that the annual announcements of new models and operating systems aren't earth-shattering enough. 
    ... perhaps an alternative might be updating iWeb and other Apple apps, although that or legacy 32 bit support might cut in to the $99M under consideration... 
  • Reply 60 of 67
    JWSC said:
    Xed said:
    All things Apple seem to have become incredibly more complex, not the least is dealing with the now annual macOS releases since 2011.
    The loss of 32 bit app support (Windows does) has been a particular concern (cost/workflow/training) for this life time customer...

    Is the mac still 'a computer for the rest of us…?'
    You're upset that Apple got rid of 32-bit processors and eventually stopped supporting 32-bit architecture? Are you also upset that they did the same for 16-bit and moved to a Unix-like OS?
    To be fair other than expanded memory access and possibly speed I don't understand further benefits of 64 bit, but when apps I license & use no longer work, it matters...

    I'd like to have the option to upgrade on merit or need. Kind of like onboard RAM and storage that means throwing out the baby with the bath water. Is that why $99M is available to a single human...?

    When I search under about this mac I get over 400 hits on 32 bit apps, and more major considerations include losing things like an Adobe Master Collection, which isn't even available for upgrade with a persistent license option, effectively forcing a choice of subscription or abandonment.  

    Even for Acrobat Pro (still available persistent) Adobe wants $450 USD (no upgrade beyond 2 years) while my current version keeps happily doing what is needed with no complaints. At what point are customers being held to ransom...? It certainly feels that way at times, although I assume it serves the developers well, including $99M compensation for a single human... Is that better...?

    I still have a G4 powerbook that runs (for now) including 'Classic' and an entire life's work on the mac... iWeb is another app that I really like, and think is some of the best 'no manual required' intuitive software to ever come from the Steve Jobs era...  32 bit, of course...
    The solution is staring you right in the face — keep living in the past and keep using old software and an old Mac until you die. Let the rest of us move on with technology. Cook's compensation is irrelevant to any of your concerns.
    Well with respect I might suggest we must agree to disagree... I ask if the whole point of orphaning perfectly fuctional software, in cases easier and better designed than 'upgrades' is to feather pockets of vested interests, especially once a gold rush of transition has occurred...

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish

    The point is to improve on technology. The premise that it's not an improvement false, despite the fact that you're perfectly happy to cling to old tech. I guarantee that you cannot build a functional modern, responsive website in iWeb. Adobe Creative Suite was a decade ago! Do you have any idea how outdated most of that software is? Just because you find functionality in ancient software doesn't mean the rest of the world should be held back in the dark ages with you. Nobody is stopping you from simply using an old Mac to run old Mac software. Do it. Smarter people have already found modern equivalent tools which are far cheaper, faster, and better than decade-old Creative Suite software and iWeb.
    I'm not sure what you are trying to ague.  Undoubtedly, Adobe's software had made huge improvements over the years.  But it can be argued that it has taken a few steps backward as well.  From my point of view, it's improvements did not keep up with the escalation in pricing on the consumer end.  Adobe chose to target the business market and abandon non-business users.  In the case of Photoshop, Pixelmator was a more than adequate replacement.  Adobe's decision may have been  good from a revenue standpoint.  But as someone who used their products for mostly personal use, the value proposition wasn't good enough to stay with them.  Microsoft still caters to the home user market.  Why not Adobe?  It seems a lost opportunity.
    It's a better deal for those of us who used to have to upgrade the Master Collection every 18 months or whatever (cycle changed a few times). I understand that for casual occasional users, the monthly plans aren't necessarily great, but I literally pay for the entire CC suite in less than half an hour of work each month which is nothing for the amount of money it allows me to make. For the aforementioned casual users, there are *plenty* of cheaper one-off options out there for them that are a far better choice.

    If you're talking business 101, it's a dubious proposition to conclude that CEO salaries fit on a true price/elasticity curve for employee value generated, especially when considering the value lower level employees contribute to overall revenue and profitability.  Ample evidence exists to demonstrate it's a self perpetuating club.  CEOs who routinely sit as board members on other companies have every incentive to raise CEO compensation so that, in turn, they can feel justify their taking own breathtaking compensation.
    That wasn't my proposition, or in anyway related to what I was replying to.

    Hmmm.  And here I was thinking that the point was to improve the value proposition to the user.  Silly me.
    Uh, improving technology is improving the value to the user. Not sure what you're talking about here, but I don't personally want to live in the software stone age because some of you are upset that advancements in computing will leave legacy software behind. You do you.
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