Leaked plan shows Intel will try to be more efficient than M1 Max by late 2023

AppleInsiderAppleInsider
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A presentation slide claiming to show Intel's projected future roadmap includes plan for Arrow Lake processor to outperform Apple's M1 Max by late 2023 or early 2024.




Intel has already claimed to be producing processors that exceed the performance of Apple's M1 Max. However, the difference is within a margin of error while at the same time, Intel's processors require dramatically more power.

Now the company is reportedly aiming at a new processor that will beat Apple's 2021 chips by early 2024 at the latest.

It wasn't a rumour, it was their plan. I talked with Intel engineers working on the project and I was also handed this slide a bit before then. If they are no longer doing TSMC 3nm its a decision made since the video. pic.twitter.com/zr0FojtCv6

-- Jim (@AdoredTV)


The tweet from "Jim," aka AdoredTV, was in response to a thread discussing Intel's use of TSMC for 3 nanometer chip production. He says he got the slide "between 8-9 months ago," so plans may have changed.

Intel's slide says that it is about "targeting Apple compete 14" premium designs requiring high-touch OEM collaboration." And also that it is focused on how to "maximise performance."

Technology site WCCFtech, which previously reported on Apple using Intel for a 2022 Mac Pro update, Intel plans a 320 EU iGPU based on Battleimage architecture.

WCCFtech further says that according to the leaked slide, the forthcoming Arrow Lake-P (portable) processors will use 14 cores, while the desktop Arrow Lake-S will have up to 40 cores.

Apple's M2 chips are expected in the first half of 2022, and M2 Pro and M2 Max will ultimately follow. It's not yet clear what balance of power to performance they will have.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 37
    JapheyJaphey Posts: 1,772member
    Meanwhile, guess who else is also “reportedly aiming at a new processor that will beat Apple's 2021 chips”? Why Apple themselves, of course. Only they plan on doing it in mid to late 2022? Well played, Intel. 
    edited February 2022 gregoriusmredgeminiparadarthekatplastico23JaiOh81killroycaladanianMplsPtechconckingofsomewherehot
  • Reply 2 of 37
    stevegeestevegee Posts: 21member
    man, i can feel the butthurt at Intel from here…and despite all their efforts i don’t expect great things from them. 
    edited February 2022 redgeminipalkruppkillroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 37
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,924member
    Intel is gunning at the wrong target. Because Apple is and will be out of Intel's range, far ahead. What Intel needs to fear is loosing market share to AMD, NVIDIA than

    Apple. Moreover, Apple is in it's own league with huge financial and tech resources to stay ahead Intel or others in chip area.
    edited February 2022 killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 37
    redgeminiparedgeminipa Posts: 555member
    So, in other words, Intel is admitting they're an easy 2 years behind Apple in chip development. Because, you know, Apple's 2023 M-series chips will be... more powerful and efficient than the current crop...

    Where was Intel's motivation when Apple was a dedicated customer all of those years? How long ago did the rumors of Apple's plans to make computer SOCs start flying? Why didn't Intel attempt to get into gear then? They had plenty of time to attempt to retain Apple as a customer, but kept dragging their feet. This is starting to sound a little like the Blackberry story, or was it called the Blueberry? Those are such a distant memory anymore. 
    killroy9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 37
    hackintoisierhackintoisier Posts: 86member
    Nowhere does the leaked slide say Intel is targeting m1 max.  Alder lake already beats m1 max at many tasks. With arrow lake-p, Intel is targeting whatever chip apple will have in-market in late 2023/early 2024. 

    What’s not mentioned in the slide is arrow lake-H. Intel’s p-series are it’s low power series. Intel’s h series are it’s high end mobile chips that offer desktop class performance. 

    If an intel low power p-series chip beats apple m2 max or m3 max, then the h series will have even more performance still. At a higher wattage of course.  

    My take: Arrow lake-p seems to be designed to match a similar performance per watt as apple’s m series chips. Arrow lake-h seems to be designed to leave apple in the dust. But only time will tell. The benefactor of this competition will be us, the consumer. 
    edited February 2022 williamlondonJWSCtenthousandthings
  • Reply 6 of 37
    seltzdesignseltzdesign Posts: 59member
    hackintoisier said:
    Nowhere does the leaked slide say Intel is targeting m1 max.  Alder lake already beats m1 max at many tasks. With arrow lake-p, Intel is targeting whatever chip apple will have in-market in late 2023/early 2024. 

    What’s not mentioned in the slide is arrow lake-H. Intel’s p-series are it’s low power series. Intel’s h series are it’s high end mobile chips that offer desktop class performance. 

    If an intel low power p-series chip beats apple m2 max or m3 max, then the h series will have even more performance still. At a higher wattage of course.  

    My take: Arrow lake-p seems to be designed to match a similar performance per watt as apple’s m series chips. Arrow lake-h seems to be designed to leave apple in the dust. But only time will tell. The benefactor of this competition will be us, the consumer. 
    The headline of the article clearly states the goal is efficiency. So why do you talk about performance? And please enlighten us on your insights on M2 max and M3 max..
    williamlondonJWSCjkichlinelolliveraknabicpsrowatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 37
    timmilleatimmillea Posts: 252member
    Efficiency is performance. Excessive heat output changes the form factor. Heat = large cooling systems. Power consumption = large batteries or PSUs. You cannot have a viable laptop or compact desktop with good performance without good efficiency. High efficiency SoCs make products such as the MBA possible - lighter than an iPad + keyboard, fanless and yet has more performance than the highest-end cheese grater Mac Pros that can still be used as the main form of domestic heating.
    lolliverbadmonkwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 37
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 1,339member
    Nowhere does the leaked slide say Intel is targeting m1 max.  Alder lake already beats m1 max at many tasks. With arrow lake-p, Intel is targeting whatever chip apple will have in-market in late 2023/early 2024. 

    What’s not mentioned in the slide is arrow lake-H. Intel’s p-series are it’s low power series. Intel’s h series are it’s high end mobile chips that offer desktop class performance. 

    If an intel low power p-series chip beats apple m2 max or m3 max, then the h series will have even more performance still. At a higher wattage of course.  

    My take: Arrow lake-p seems to be designed to match a similar performance per watt as apple’s m series chips. Arrow lake-h seems to be designed to leave apple in the dust. But only time will tell. The benefactor of this competition will be us, the consumer. 

    Intel has already claimed to be producing processors that exceed the performance of Apple's M1 Max. However, the difference is within a margin of error while at the same time, Intel's processors require dramatically more power.


    Now the company is reportedly aiming at a new processor that will beat Apple's 2021 chips by early 2024 at the latest.


    What are you talking about?

    williamlondonXedwatto_cobraroundaboutnow
  • Reply 9 of 37
    retrogustoretrogusto Posts: 1,133member
    redgeminipa said:
    So, in other words, Intel is admitting they're an easy 2 years behind Apple in chip development. Because, you know, Apple's 2023 M-series chips will be... more powerful and efficient than the current crop...

    Where was Intel's motivation when Apple was a dedicated customer all of those years? How long ago did the rumors of Apple's plans to make computer SOCs start flying? Why didn't Intel attempt to get into gear then? They had plenty of time to attempt to retain Apple as a customer, but kept dragging their feet. This is starting to sound a little like the Blackberry story, or was it called the Blueberry? Those are such a distant memory anymore. 
    Haha. I remember being in a meeting with some investment bankers around 2005, and as an example of his dedication to his work, one proclaimed, “I sleep with my blueberry.”
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 37
    hackintoisierhackintoisier Posts: 86member
    jcs2305 said:
    Nowhere does the leaked slide say Intel is targeting m1 max.  Alder lake already beats m1 max at many tasks. With arrow lake-p, Intel is targeting whatever chip apple will have in-market in late 2023/early 2024. 

    What’s not mentioned in the slide is arrow lake-H. Intel’s p-series are it’s low power series. Intel’s h series are it’s high end mobile chips that offer desktop class performance. 

    If an intel low power p-series chip beats apple m2 max or m3 max, then the h series will have even more performance still. At a higher wattage of course.  

    My take: Arrow lake-p seems to be designed to match a similar performance per watt as apple’s m series chips. Arrow lake-h seems to be designed to leave apple in the dust. But only time will tell. The benefactor of this competition will be us, the consumer. 

    Intel has already claimed to be producing processors that exceed the performance of Apple's M1 Max. However, the difference is within a margin of error while at the same time, Intel's processors require dramatically more power.


    Now the company is reportedly aiming at a new processor that will beat Apple's 2021 chips by early 2024 at the latest.


    What are you talking about?

    The introduction of the article states: “ A presentation slide claiming to show Intel's projected future roadmap includes plan for Arrow Lake processor to outperform Apple's M1 Max by late 2023 or early 2024.” 

    However the leaked intel slide states: ARL-P is targeting Apple 14 premium inch designs. Nowhere does the intel slide claim that intel is targeting the 2021 m1 max with a 2023/24 product. 

    The implication of the article is that intel is only hoping to catch up to apple’s m1 max in 2023… but this is a spurious claim as alder lake already beats m1 max at many tasks (albeit at a higher power consumption). Therefore, the article is wrong. 

    Arrow lake follows meteor lake, and it will destroy alder lake, and thus m1 max. Intel is clearly targeting arrow lake towards whatever m-series chip apple will have on the market in 2023-24. 
    edited February 2022 williamlondonbeowulfschmidt
  • Reply 11 of 37
    hammeroftruthhammeroftruth Posts: 1,349member
    One of the most important things to remember is now Apple controls their own processors in the Macintosh which was something they could never do. They always relied on Motorola, IBM and Intel. Now they have the freedom to design their own chips and not have to make severe modifications for heat and power requirements. 

    Intel has its own problems with consumer perceptions that they would be better off using an AMD cpu than Intel. Too many years of celeron and budget Intel cpus have turned off the bargain shoppers. Sure, high end users still use Intel, but if you look at history, all of the high end cpus like Dec Alpha and MIPS and RISC were all replaced eventually by cheaper cpus by Intel.  Now Intel could be a victim of its own playbook. It all depends on what Microsoft and Linux distros do in the future. 

    Once SoftBank sells off ARM, whoever buys it could put a severe hurt on Intel, that is, as long as Microsoft allows it. They were one of the driving forces to propel Intel to the top. They killed off PPC versions of Windows because Intel asked them to back in the 90s. 
    dewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 37
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,689member
    Skating to where the puck used to be. How nice.
    hydrogenlolliver9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 37
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,534member
    Intel can win on raw performance by just inhabiting a region of the performance vs power curve that Apple leaves vacant. That's what's happening now with Alder Lake -- Intel is willing to just keep raising power until they can edge Apple on performance, heat+battery life be damned. 

    The only way Intel truly beats apple in single thread performance/watt is if they beat TSMC in process. There's no way Intel wins on equivalent process because x86 requires much higher clock speeds (and therefore voltage) to beat Apple's core design on single thread performance. I doubt that changes. 

    For multi-threaded performance/watt, Intel might stand a chance on equivalent process due to hyper threading. I'd still bet on Apple, but it's not impossible that Intel could eke out a win. 

    The gazillion dollar question, then, is -- can Intel recapture the process lead? It's not impossible. Gelsinger and Co. seem genuinely committed (ie, they're spending the money, hiring the people, telling the stock market to F-off). The geopolitical situation might help Intel, too. I'll say this -- if Intel actually releases 'Intel 4' products on time AND if the TSMC 3nm schedule slips, I'll buy Intel stock (not before that, though). 

    Xedthtlollivertechconc
  • Reply 14 of 37
    killroykillroy Posts: 282member
    Nowhere does the leaked slide say Intel is targeting m1 max.  Alder lake already beats m1 max at many tasks. With arrow lake-p, Intel is targeting whatever chip apple will have in-market in late 2023/early 2024. 

    What’s not mentioned in the slide is arrow lake-H. Intel’s p-series are it’s low power series. Intel’s h series are it’s high end mobile chips that offer desktop class performance. 

    If an intel low power p-series chip beats apple m2 max or m3 max, then the h series will have even more performance still. At a higher wattage of course.  

    My take: Arrow lake-p seems to be designed to match a similar performance per watt as apple’s m series chips. Arrow lake-h seems to be designed to leave apple in the dust. But only time will tell. The benefactor of this competition will be us, the consumer. 

    In most speed test it's only by 5%. Take note that Alder lake needs 4 more cores to do that . So Alder lake is slow.
    lolliverwilliamlondonwatto_cobraroundaboutnow
  • Reply 15 of 37
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,369member
    So they are already three years too late. Apple isn't going to just sit on the M1... next year will be M2, M3, etc. Intel will always be AT LEAST three years behind, probably more like five... as well companies actually producing ARM chips.
    lolliverwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 37
    goofy1958goofy1958 Posts: 166member
    Well, one thing that everyone here seems to be ignoring, is that no matter what Intel does, Apple is NEVER going to use their CPUs again.  Yes, the Wintel group will benefit from the better performance, but not one single Mac by that time will ever have an Intel chip in it.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 37
    digitoldigitol Posts: 276member
    Uh right, “leaked” from intel marketing department. Also, key word  “try” Intel is no match for Apple hardware software integration.  
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 37
    pascal007pascal007 Posts: 121member
    It took Apple's departure to wake Intel up. All the years before, Intel lazily stood still.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 37
    longfanglongfang Posts: 515member
    hackintoisier said:
    jcs2305 said:
    Nowhere does the leaked slide say Intel is targeting m1 max.  Alder lake already beats m1 max at many tasks. With arrow lake-p, Intel is targeting whatever chip apple will have in-market in late 2023/early 2024. 

    What’s not mentioned in the slide is arrow lake-H. Intel’s p-series are it’s low power series. Intel’s h series are it’s high end mobile chips that offer desktop class performance. 

    If an intel low power p-series chip beats apple m2 max or m3 max, then the h series will have even more performance still. At a higher wattage of course.  

    My take: Arrow lake-p seems to be designed to match a similar performance per watt as apple’s m series chips. Arrow lake-h seems to be designed to leave apple in the dust. But only time will tell. The benefactor of this competition will be us, the consumer. 

    Intel has already claimed to be producing processors that exceed the performance of Apple's M1 Max. However, the difference is within a margin of error while at the same time, Intel's processors require dramatically more power.


    Now the company is reportedly aiming at a new processor that will beat Apple's 2021 chips by early 2024 at the latest.


    What are you talking about?

    The introduction of the article states: “ A presentation slide claiming to show Intel's projected future roadmap includes plan for Arrow Lake processor to outperform Apple's M1 Max by late 2023 or early 2024.” 

    However the leaked intel slide states: ARL-P is targeting Apple 14 premium inch designs. Nowhere does the intel slide claim that intel is targeting the 2021 m1 max with a 2023/24 product. 

    The implication of the article is that intel is only hoping to catch up to apple’s m1 max in 2023… but this is a spurious claim as alder lake already beats m1 max at many tasks (albeit at a higher power consumption). Therefore, the article is wrong. 

    Arrow lake follows meteor lake, and it will destroy alder lake, and thus m1 max. Intel is clearly targeting arrow lake towards whatever m-series chip apple will have on the market in 2023-24. 
    That is too many lakes to keep track of. Apple’s lineup much easier to follow.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 37
    longfanglongfang Posts: 515member
    hackintoisier said:
    jcs2305 said:
    Nowhere does the leaked slide say Intel is targeting m1 max.  Alder lake already beats m1 max at many tasks. With arrow lake-p, Intel is targeting whatever chip apple will have in-market in late 2023/early 2024. 

    What’s not mentioned in the slide is arrow lake-H. Intel’s p-series are it’s low power series. Intel’s h series are it’s high end mobile chips that offer desktop class performance. 

    If an intel low power p-series chip beats apple m2 max or m3 max, then the h series will have even more performance still. At a higher wattage of course.  

    My take: Arrow lake-p seems to be designed to match a similar performance per watt as apple’s m series chips. Arrow lake-h seems to be designed to leave apple in the dust. But only time will tell. The benefactor of this competition will be us, the consumer. 

    Intel has already claimed to be producing processors that exceed the performance of Apple's M1 Max. However, the difference is within a margin of error while at the same time, Intel's processors require dramatically more power.


    Now the company is reportedly aiming at a new processor that will beat Apple's 2021 chips by early 2024 at the latest.


    What are you talking about?

    The introduction of the article states: “ A presentation slide claiming to show Intel's projected future roadmap includes plan for Arrow Lake processor to outperform Apple's M1 Max by late 2023 or early 2024.” 

    However the leaked intel slide states: ARL-P is targeting Apple 14 premium inch designs. Nowhere does the intel slide claim that intel is targeting the 2021 m1 max with a 2023/24 product. 

    The implication of the article is that intel is only hoping to catch up to apple’s m1 max in 2023… but this is a spurious claim as alder lake already beats m1 max at many tasks (albeit at a higher power consumption). Therefore, the article is wrong. 

    Arrow lake follows meteor lake, and it will destroy alder lake, and thus m1 max. Intel is clearly targeting arrow lake towards whatever m-series chip apple will have on the market in 2023-24. 
    Unless it can somehow run upcoming MacOS, it’s not destroying anything on the Apple ecosystem side of things. Intel were in a prime position with regards to Apple and they chose to squander it by playing their rehashing games. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
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