hpe said: Currently, you are discriminating men to reach a political goal. That is at best fighting the symptom and not the disease. At worst it is highly discriminatory towards male engineers.
You don't need to "figure out" what caused fewer females to be CS majors. It's gender bias in society.Lil
Is it though? Isn't it possible—even probable—that, by-and-large, women prefer different professions and doing different kinds of work?
Like cooking, cleaning, and being housewives?
Thanks for self-identifying.
You're very welcome. Now how about you explain why you believe woman are by-and-large both incapable and lack interest in professions that are dominated by men? How about you tell us why women were able to do any jobs at all when by-and-large they were all done by men in the past? It's almost as if women can do well in "jobs previously only done by men" when given the opportunity.
Nope. You lost your chance. Next time think more carefully about your replies.
P.S. You are also misrepresenting what I wrote. So there's that too.
I lost my chance? To what? keep calling you out for your myopic, bigoted statement. Clearly that's not the case.
Let me refresh your memory, "even probable—that, by-and-large, women prefer different professions and doing different kinds of work." Again, what professions are these? Is stay at home wife the only one that fits your bill or you so gracious to also allow women to have "emotional" jobs that don't interfere with analytical jobs that will make your penis look even smaller if they excel at it?
If you don't think women are neither capable of nor want to do these so-called men-only professions they please show us peer reviewed studies that show that women aren't suited. I wager you can't prove your point because there are no such studies that show women as inferior in the way allude.
All the presenters were professional, informative, knowledgeable and had a good on camera presence. What more could you ask for. End of subject.
I like the increased presence, and agree with William's statement that "we are embarrassingly still in the situation where women contributors are unusual enough that it gets noticed", but I don't think they most of the presenters had a good presence. There were a lot of weird pregnant pauses, odd arm gestures, and unusual cadency that I felt took away from the amazing product presentation. Now, this Is (somewhat) resolvable with training, but these presenters seem more like one-offs, not using the same presenters every time like in the past.
I agree with you re: the odd arm gestures and cadence, and (maybe it was just me) the wide stance they all used--I'm not sure what that is supposed to convey--someone's idea of "strength", "confidence"? They seemed overly coached, but perhaps because they don't usually give presentations. At any rate, it was very similar to the male presenters in other recent events, which is good for the women. But I find them all very odd and robotic. What happened to "normal"? Maybe it's just the lack of an audience, where applause, laughs or cheers provide a break in a presenter's speech
Apple’s presenters as a group are awful:
1. What’s with the wide-legged stance? People don’t stand that way normally, so I’m not sure why Apple has all their presenters do it. It looks silly.
2. Stop using teleprompters. That’s why the presentations sound robotic. Tim Cook has never done well on stage and he still doesn’t, largely because of this.
3. Associated with #2, how about knowing your product well enough that you can talk conversationally about it? Good presenters only need bullet points as reminders of the flow of their briefing, instead of reading their script word for word.
All the presenters were professional, informative, knowledgeable and had a good on camera presence. What more could you ask for. End of subject.
I like the increased presence, and agree with William's statement that "we are embarrassingly still in the situation where women contributors are unusual enough that it gets noticed", but I don't think they most of the presenters had a good presence. There were a lot of weird pregnant pauses, odd arm gestures, and unusual cadency that I felt took away from the amazing product presentation. Now, this Is (somewhat) resolvable with training, but these presenters seem more like one-offs, not using the same presenters every time like in the past.
I agree with you re: the odd arm gestures and cadence, and (maybe it was just me) the wide stance they all used--I'm not sure what that is supposed to convey--someone's idea of "strength", "confidence"? They seemed overly coached, but perhaps because they don't usually give presentations. At any rate, it was very similar to the male presenters in other recent events, which is good for the women. But I find them all very odd and robotic. What happened to "normal"? Maybe it's just the lack of an audience, where applause, laughs or cheers provide a break in a presenter's speech
Apple’s presenters as a group are awful:
1. What’s with the wide-legged stance? People don’t stand that way normally, so I’m not sure why Apple has all their presenters do it. It looks silly.
2. Stop using teleprompters. That’s why the presentations sound robotic. Tim Cook has never done well on stage and he still doesn’t, largely because of this.
3. Associated with #2, how about knowing your product well enough that you can talk conversationally about it? Good presenters only need bullet points as reminders of the flow of their briefing, instead of reading their script word for word.
I could go on…..
1. It's the power stance. LOL. I noticed it too. It was so obvious. 2 & 3. Agreed. With Apple though I'm certain they're scared to death to let anyone go off script for fear they might say the one thing or the slightly wrong turn of phrase that will offend or trigger someone. This is where Apple has come to. Everything plastic, scripted, thought out to the nth degree such that it doesn't even feel human anymore.
Don't get me wrong, they still make great products that I (usually) love. But these presentations have become cringe. Or should I say amazingly, breathtakingly, and unprecedentedly cringe and "more cringe than any other product presentation we've done."
As with any company, Apple should employ the best people for the job, not because they are male or female, of a particularly chosen gender or none, or because of race, colour, nationality or creed. It should also be borne in mind we are not all the same: we should be recognised for our differences and enjoyed because of that. Trying to make diversity a requirement of whom to employ is condescending and a waste of talent. Bringing in people for any reason other than that they are the best person for the job, devalues the person and devalues the company.
Apple, as a huge organisation, cannot please all of the people all of the time so will be applauded and criticised whatever it does.
As with any company, Apple should employ the best people for the job, not because they are male or female, of a particularly chosen gender or none, or because of race, colour, nationality or creed. It should also be borne in mind we are not all the same: we should be recognised for our differences and enjoyed because of that. Trying to make diversity a requirement of whom to employ is condescending and a waste of talent. Bringing in people for any reason other than that they are the best person for the job, devalues the person and devalues the company.
Apple, as a huge organisation, cannot please all of the people all of the time so will be applauded and criticised whatever it does.
The author, William, did address all of that in his article. While it should be the best presenters—and for all we know these were the best presenters chosen from the available employees from their associated departments—it's the fact all women presenters stood out at all that makes it an issue, especially in comparison to decades of it being only male presenters without it even registering as being unbalanced.
Comments
Let me refresh your memory, "even probable—that, by-and-large, women prefer different professions and doing different kinds of work." Again, what professions are these? Is stay at home wife the only one that fits your bill or you so gracious to also allow women to have "emotional" jobs that don't interfere with analytical jobs that will make your penis look even smaller if they excel at it?
If you don't think women are neither capable of nor want to do these so-called men-only professions they please show us peer reviewed studies that show that women aren't suited. I wager you can't prove your point because there are no such studies that show women as inferior in the way allude.
1. What’s with the wide-legged stance? People don’t stand that way normally, so I’m not sure why Apple has all their presenters do it. It looks silly.
2. Stop using teleprompters. That’s why the presentations sound robotic. Tim Cook has never done well on stage and he still doesn’t, largely because of this.
2 & 3. Agreed. With Apple though I'm certain they're scared to death to let anyone go off script for fear they might say the one thing or the slightly wrong turn of phrase that will offend or trigger someone. This is where Apple has come to. Everything plastic, scripted, thought out to the nth degree such that it doesn't even feel human anymore.
Don't get me wrong, they still make great products that I (usually) love. But these presentations have become cringe. Or should I say amazingly, breathtakingly, and unprecedentedly cringe and "more cringe than any other product presentation we've done."
Apple, as a huge organisation, cannot please all of the people all of the time so will be applauded and criticised whatever it does.