European politicians on the cusp of requiring USB-C in all smartphones

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 70
    xbitxbit Posts: 357member
    Good? I wish my iPhone, iPad and MacBook Pro all charged over the same cable.

    And people here don't understand that this isn't the EU's first charging standard. Nothing is being frozen by this decision.
    forgot usernamenadriel
  • Reply 42 of 70
    thrangthrang Posts: 929member
    It no longer amazes me how stupid most government entities are given how often they percolate asinine ideas...
  • Reply 43 of 70
    thrangthrang Posts: 929member
    xbit said:
    Good? I wish my iPhone, iPad and MacBook Pro all charged over the same cable.

    And people here don't understand that this isn't the EU's first charging standard. Nothing is being frozen by this decision.
    So please amplify - if Apple or Samsung has a new charging port in development that they wanted to launch say next year, that offer demonstrably better performance or features, that was not USB-C based, how would they implement it?
  • Reply 44 of 70
    I’m not seeing where the article is stating that every phone has to have a USB-C port. To me, it just looks like the article is talking about USB-C chargers. So if that is the case, then wouldn’t Apple already be in compliance?
    designr
  • Reply 45 of 70
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,659member
    darkvader said:
    I wish they'd hurry it up.  It's insane that Apple is still using proprietary ports in 2022, and if it takes legislation to force them to stop, then the world needs that legislation.
    Rubbish. The proprietary innovation that is Lightning was an inspiration to the industry to make something better with USB, which before USB-C had stood still for a very long time and pretty much sucked.

    In the free world, companies are allowed to make things that work best for them and see what happens. Customers loved products using the proprietary 30-pin and Lightning interfaces. The market spoke very clearly. iPods and iPhones would have been poorer products had they been forced to use existing-ports only.
    Exactly what sucks about the USB A port? It’s reliable, durable and works quite well. Please don’t say you can’t figure out which way is up If that’s your complaint I can’t imagine your suffering with U.S. Electrical cords! For the overwhelming majority of uses USB A still works quite well.

    As far as lightning goes, it replaced the 30pin connector and was undeniably better. When apple developed it, USB C didn’t even exist (at least as a public standard.) THe lightning cable was durable, flexible secure, faster and easier to use. Even today, there are few advantages to USB C over the lightning connector for the overwhelming majority of cell phone users. I’d also point out that in the life of the iphone, Apple has had 2 connectors. Most other smart phones companies have had 3 or more connectors - mini USB, micro USB and USB C and USB C is the only one that provided any improvement over lightning.  

    I wouldn’t mind if Apple ditched the lightning connector simply because it would simplify things. They have USB C ports on their laptops, USB A and USB C for desktops, and a mix of lightning and USB C ports for ipads and iphones. It would be really nice to be able to use a USB C cable for everything.


    dewmeforgot usernametmaynadriel
  • Reply 46 of 70
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,182member
    Apple has options. I don't know which option Apple will adopt.

    1. Stop using Lightning worldwide on iPhones/iPads, replacing it with USB-C everywhere.
    2. Stop using Lightning in Europe, replace it with USB-C there, but use Lightning everywhere else in the world. Apple could sell its USB-C iPhones in Europe with only the maximum amount of storage, making them more expensive, to help cover the costs of the port conversion.
    3. Stop selling any iPhones with physical ports (at least in Europe.) Just sell models in Europe with only wireless charging, which is already an option in all iPhones. And definitely don't charge less for iPhones without USB-C ports!
    4. Stop selling iPhones in Europe. However, Apple might be able to skirt the rules by leasing iPhones (with Lightning) in Europe rather than selling iPhones there. I'm not sure if the new rules apply to leased products.
    Well, at least your thinking outside the box.
  • Reply 47 of 70
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,182member
    lkrupp said:
    zeus423 said:
    Fast forward a few years...

    EU: "USB-C is great! Why is the rest of the world using USB-E?"
    So what happens when a faster, more economical, more environmentally friendly method of wired (using USB-E) or wireless charging is developed? It stays in the lab until the EU gets around to taking a look and maybe approving it? This is government regulation gone completely insane to stifle innovation by mandating conformity. Why not just mandate Android as the official EU mobile operating system to make things easier for the common EU moron to use. If Apple wants to sell phones in the EU they have to run Android. Homogenized tech at its finest.
    This is nothing more than second rate politicians looking to stay relevant.  It doesn’t matter that it’s a fantastically stupid idea.  I would hope that US trade representatives challenge this ruling as anticompetitive.
  • Reply 48 of 70
    netroxnetrox Posts: 1,188member
    I still don't forgive EU for GDPR cookie policies. I am still annoyed as heck as I often browse 'anonymously' during VM tests. I don't want to see those dialogs. 

    Mandate that browsers record those cookies and be clear to users that those websites are using cookies, not pop up on every damn website I visit. 




    designr
  • Reply 49 of 70
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,922member
    MK67 said:
    My Mac use USB-C and so does the iPad.
    I see no reason why moving the iPhone to USB-C would be a problem or would stop innovation.
    Please enlighten me why, I am curious…
    Why develop a new port if everyone is required to use USB C? 
  • Reply 50 of 70
    chelinchelin Posts: 90member
    It’s a god damn plug. This is exactly what governments should do! Imagine if every company had their own power sockets. Apple is today split 50/50 between usb c and lightning for me as a consumer it would be much better with one. For Apple it is economically better for them to sell 2x the number of cables. 
    forgot usernamenadrielcropr
  • Reply 51 of 70
    longfanglongfang Posts: 289member
    I have used the lightning port on my iPhone less then 5 times in the year that I’ve had it. TBH a portless phone would suit me quite well.
    edited April 20
  • Reply 52 of 70
    designrdesignr Posts: 713member
    chelin said:
    It’s a god damn plug. This is exactly what governments should do!
    No.

  • Reply 53 of 70
    chasmchasm Posts: 2,492member
    First off, I am 100 percent for Apple changing over to USB-C if future iPhones are going to have a charging port at all. I can certainly see the advantage of all phones/tablets with charging ports being able to use a standard connector.

    That said, the number one thing Apple could do to really increase water resistance in the iPhone is ... remove the charging port. What's more valuable in a world where Qi chargers exist and are generally pretty cheap?*

    *yes I'm aware they aren't as efficient. I don't think it matters enough for anyone to care just like nobody's cared so far.

    The main problem I see with USB-C is that its very name implies there will one day be a USB-D and beyond **. As phone use continues to evolve, there is bound to be a different "standard" required in the future. So we'll get to go through this again more often than the Apple world would likely appreciate, having been used to 10+ years of the same standard.

    I'm not going to knock the EU for trying to implement this -- without government mandates, every country in the world would have their own unique television resolutions, electrical plugs, cell phone frequencies, etc to a million other "standards," and travel and communication would be an expensive nightmare. My concern with this legislation is that, as I read it, it appears to adopt the notion that forcing USB-C will be a permanent, "forever" fix that won't need to be addressed anytime soon, which I suspect is a mistake.
    forgot usernametmay
  • Reply 54 of 70
    I still don’t understand why Apple kept Lightning with recent iPhones. USB-C works fine on iPad Pro.
    nadriel
  • Reply 55 of 70
    lukeilukei Posts: 369member
    Because USB C is already dated technology 


    crowley said:
    lukei said:
    crowley said:
    lukei said:
    Great, we have an energy crisis and these clowns want to drive adoption of incredibly inefficient and lossy wireless charging.

    Politicians don’t understand tech. Ever.
    Nothing about this seems to say that wireless charging is required, just standardised.
    If manufacturers are required to lock themselves into a 9 year old standard then they will move to Wireless only

    Pretty straightforward stuff
    Not sure what this even means.  Every manufacturer apart from Apple (that I'm aware of) currently ships with a USB-C port.  Why would this legislation push them to add wireless charging when their products are already compliant?

  • Reply 56 of 70
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,233member
    lukei said:
    crowley said:
    lukei said:
    crowley said:
    lukei said:
    Great, we have an energy crisis and these clowns want to drive adoption of incredibly inefficient and lossy wireless charging.

    Politicians don’t understand tech. Ever.
    Nothing about this seems to say that wireless charging is required, just standardised.
    If manufacturers are required to lock themselves into a 9 year old standard then they will move to Wireless only

    Pretty straightforward stuff
    Not sure what this even means.  Every manufacturer apart from Apple (that I'm aware of) currently ships with a USB-C port.  Why would this legislation push them to add wireless charging when their products are already compliant?
    Because USB C is already dated technology 
    What superior alternative exists?
    MplsPchelinnadriel
  • Reply 57 of 70
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,270member
    chelin said:
    It’s a god damn plug. This is exactly what governments should do! Imagine if every company had their own power sockets. Apple is today split 50/50 between usb c and lightning for me as a consumer it would be much better with one. For Apple it is economically better for them to sell 2x the number of cables. 
    Unfortunately many people here are blind to past realities.

    This 'problem' was was brought on us by manufacturers long ago. There were over 30 different connectors on chargers in the mobile phone industry at one point and they weren't the result of 'innovation' but lock in.

    This is another step on the same road.

    The article mentions that the proposal will now include other devices but AFAIK, other devices have always been mentioned in the proposals and the draft consultation always specifically stated that any proposals should not hamper innovation.

    I have not read through this latest official document but maybe USB-C is the common base standard. Perhaps manufacturers can go above and beyond that base as long as the standard protocol is supported. 

    My 66W charger will charge my wife's XR if she plugs in her lightning cable but will simply switch down to a slower charging speed.

    As for politicians and tech decisions, this is a bit like the legal system and juries. Juries do not need law degrees. Politicians don't need engineering degrees because consultation with experts has already taken place and that includes consultations with manufacturers. 
    MplsP
  • Reply 58 of 70
    I for one would welcome a USB-C port on my next iPhone - the Lightning port was great for its time, but is limited to USB 2 speeds and charging power is more versatile with USB-C.

    This won't eliminate e-waste though - at least in the short term it will mean millions of trashed peripherals and cables which accumulated over the last decade or so. My family all have lightning alarm clocks and too many cables to count - once lightning is gone from iPhones all that's left for those cables will be charging things like the Magic Mouse and AirPods of various flavors. And I'll then have to buy a bunch of USB-C cables and chargers for all the places where I charge my phone, from my work desk, to night table, to car.

    It will also spell the end of peripherals like charging Alarm Clocks with wired docks since the USB-C connector has tolerances too tight to allow for blind docking - and Qi charging introduces additional heat and inefficiency which can lead to battery degradation and lacks data communication. My iHome alarms clocks automagically correct their time whenever an iPhone is docked.

    My iHome Lightning alarm clock has been having display issues of late - but I've been reluctant to replace it because of the EU's pending action and the uncertainty of Apple's response.

    It still frosts my yo-yo though that a confederacy of bureaucrats whose territory includes neither the designers nor manufacturers of these devices thinks they can dictate the standards of the world - and dictate technological standards to boot.
    MplsP
  • Reply 59 of 70
    xbitxbit Posts: 357member
    thrang said:

    So please amplify - if Apple or Samsung has a new charging port in development that they wanted to launch say next year, that offer demonstrably better performance or features, that was not USB-C based, how would they implement it?
    They would submit their ideas to the USB-IF (or Wireless Power Consortium) for inclusion in the next USB standard. If it's demonstrably better, it'll be adopted without issue.
    muthuk_vanalingamnadrielMplsP
  • Reply 60 of 70
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,297member
    The notion of a “portless” iPhone sounds appealing but I think it would be more challenging when it comes to product servicing, diagnostics, and testing. Quite a few products, the Apple TV included, have ports for servicing and factory diagnostics. I’m sure that some or perhaps all of the reasons for keeping the hardware port around could be moved over to an inductive coupler, but there is a certain level of simplicity and comfort for hardware folks to have a hardwired port to fall back on to for probing into a device that’s not acting quite right, especially when the affected function involve the inductive interface. If nothing else, redundancy is a good thing when it comes to product availability. Having two distinct and independent ways to charge a device is a benefit to me.

    As far as plug/connector standards are concerned, we already have many different standards throughout the world for plugging electrical devices into the power mains. There are even differences in the electrical characteristics of the mains themselves, including voltage, current, and frequency. This is not going to change anytime soon. People who travel across standards boundaries just have to deal with it - mostly in the form of adapters, dongles, and transformers. 

    Long live the dongle - the savior to our ineptness and inability to agree on anything!
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