Netflix versus Apple TV+: how Apple is stealing mindshare in a too crowded streaming marke...

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  • Reply 21 of 30
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,905member

    For most Apple TV+ subscribers, their first experience will be getting a free trial to the service just for having an Apple ID. And yes, Apple reminds you of this free trial whenever it gets the chance.


    That’s definitely how they got me. I don’t have a lot of time to watch shows. Was planning on canceling, but then my wife told me about “Severance”. 

    … Dammit. 
    sconosciuto
  • Reply 22 of 30
    sconosciutosconosciuto Posts: 207member
    szipp said:
    I have serious trouble understanding how awards - and especially one for CODA, which is just a remake of La Famille Bélier - are seen as a valid argument for one streaming platform over the other.  
    really? Maybe it does nothing for you, and that's alright. For many other people, it help builds the brand and mindshare of AppleTV+ whether they know it or not.

    Winning prestigious awards is also a Hollywood contest, but far from pointless inside the business. AppleTV+ didn't exist until 3 years ago and already they're the first streaming service to win a Best Picture Oscar. You think Netflix or HBO is happy about that??? Now millions of people are beginning to mention AppleTV+ in the same sentences as Netflix/HBO/Disney thanks to that.

    And beyond that, winning prestigious awards tells Hollywood's top creative talent that you're someone they will want to work with, and that it will help build their own career and brand to do projects with AppleTV+.

    TL;DR: it's not everything, but it's kind of a big deal.

    [edited to remove offensive references, so that the conversation can continue]
    - RadarTheKat (moderator)
    edited May 6 cornchiptmaywilliamlondon
  • Reply 23 of 30
    sconosciutosconosciuto Posts: 207member
    charlesn said:
    As someone who has worked in television for the past 20 years, I'd offer these observations about Apple+:

    First: it helps being a multi-trillion dollar company sitting on a cash pile of about $200 billion that is in the completely unique position of not even needing its streaming platform to be profitable. One example: its recent series Pachinko, which I believe is one of the great achievements in television that will sweep the Emmy awards in drama this year, was turned down by every other network and streamer because it was too expensive to make. Only Apple said yes. At least for now, Apple appears to be in this business to have a streaming platform with shows that reflect and burnish its brand image, and they get an A+ from me on how they've done so far. Apple+ shows are superb quality, beautifully produced, highly original, notably ambitious and an overall love letter to the "creative class" who are typical Apple customers. 

    Second: merely spending a ton of money on content doesn't guarantee great shows, as Netflix proved with its $20 billion spend on content last year. But here, too, we see a reflection of the Apple brand in emphasizing quality over quantity. Kudos to the development and programming team there because although they're taking far fewer swings compared to Netflix, they are doing a much better job of making every swing count. 

    Third, this may be personal to me, but I'm finding that because Apple+ doesn't churn out shows in high volume, I am much more aware of each new series they release. Other streaming platforms can be an overwhelming tsunami of shows where I feel like I haven't heard of any of them and end up with that feeling of, "there's nothing on." Even HBO Max, whose quality I also respect greatly, is largely unexplored territory for me, but they tend to have a couple of headline series that they promote and are steering viewers towards at any given time. 

    Of course, all of the above is extremely attractive to the most talented creatives with ambitious and original ideas, which makes it more likely that Apple+ will be their first stop in pitching a new documentary or series, and gives Apple+ the best shot at buying the best stuff, which perpetuates the way they've positioned the platform. 

    Fantastic job, Apple+... keep up the great work! 


    great observations, especially:

    Apple+ shows are superb quality, beautifully produced, highly original, notably ambitious and an overall love letter to the "creative class" who are typical Apple customers. 

    Also in the biz here. I fell in love with "Severance" on first sight, didn't you? It just looks so great, even with its extremely spare sets. The choices of camera angles, the editing, the delightful blending of the 70s, 80s, and 90s in the set design... it was only after 2 or 3 episodes that I began to understand where they were going with all of this, and then I fell in love with the scripts and the themes they were exploring and madly in love with the show itself.

    AppleTV+ is not only working with the best talent in the business, clearly they're getting great direction and encouragement from the ATV+ execs. Netflix has some of the best talent in the biz too (I got to work with some of them...), but clearly they are NOT getting great direction from the Netflix execs. I have lost count of how many times I watched some series that clearly was padded out to be much longer than it needed to be, and I'm far from the only person to observe that. I've also lost count of how many times I've messaged a colleague to slag off some of the terrible choices that directors made in these series. One true crime series in particular made appalling choices for interview locations that I'm not sure even a green film school grad would have made.

    All of this builds a brand in people's minds whether they know it or not. That's how Netflix has earned a richly-deserved reputation for tons of mediocre content that leave you (paradoxically) saying, "there's nothing to watch!". Pretty much anything on AppleTV+ is guaranteed to be worth your time if it's a topic or genre you're interested in at all.

    edited May 5 cornchip
  • Reply 24 of 30
    montrosemacsmontrosemacs Posts: 110member
    creek0512 said:
    blastdoor said:
    I have no idea if ATV+ will ever make sense financially for Apple, but I have come to really love it. They really have some of the best shows. And Netflix isn't nearly as compelling as it once was. Our household needs to take a hard look at our subscriptions and cut some out. There's no way I'd cut ATV+ and Netflix is at the top the list to cut. 

    I would also cut Disney if people would let me, and maybe add Paramount+ 
    Apple TV+ ($50), Disney+ ($80), and Paramount+ ($100) combined are cheaper per year than Netflix ($240).
    Your point is valid although you might want to check your math. For example, Paramount+ is $9.99/month which makes it $120/year. 
  • Reply 25 of 30
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,508member
    Hate to be the dissenter, but I must. I must.

    Apple’s 3% is mostly a free year with a hardware purchase or as a bundle.

    Ther just isn’t enough content to justify even its comparatively cheap price. I still have an Apple + sub because lazy. It is a series of droughts between the plenty of a good show. And it is a mix of a good show amongst a fair bit of stuff you get on public television, and the droughts remain.

    Netflix is losing subscribers not because of Apple, but because of losing high profile, popular shows and increasing its prices. Netflix’s woes are nothing to do with Apple.
    edited May 5 elijahg
  • Reply 26 of 30
    JapheyJaphey Posts: 1,385member
    creek0512 said:
    blastdoor said:
    I have no idea if ATV+ will ever make sense financially for Apple, but I have come to really love it. They really have some of the best shows. And Netflix isn't nearly as compelling as it once was. Our household needs to take a hard look at our subscriptions and cut some out. There's no way I'd cut ATV+ and Netflix is at the top the list to cut. 

    I would also cut Disney if people would let me, and maybe add Paramount+ 
    Apple TV+ ($50), Disney+ ($80), and Paramount+ ($100) combined are cheaper per year than Netflix ($240).
    Your point is valid although you might want to check your math. For example, Paramount+ is $9.99/month which makes it $120/year. 
    They were listing the cost for the annual plan of each service. So, yes, the month to month plan of Paramount Premium does cost $120 for 12 months. But the same plan costs $99.99 if the annual plan is selected instead. 

    Alternatively, the Essentials Plan costs $4.99/mo. or $49.99/yr. That’s the one I use. I find the number of commercials quite reasonable with only 2-3 very short breaks per hour. 
    edited May 5 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 30
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 300member
    charlesn said:
    As someone who has worked in television for the past 20 years, I'd offer these observations about Apple+:

    First: it helps being a multi-trillion dollar company sitting on a cash pile of about $200 billion that is in the completely unique position of not even needing its streaming platform to be profitable. One example: its recent series Pachinko, which I believe is one of the great achievements in television that will sweep the Emmy awards in drama this year, was turned down by every other network and streamer because it was too expensive to make. Only Apple said yes. At least for now, Apple appears to be in this business to have a streaming platform with shows that reflect and burnish its brand image, and they get an A+ from me on how they've done so far. Apple+ shows are superb quality, beautifully produced, highly original, notably ambitious and an overall love letter to the "creative class" who are typical Apple customers. 

    Second: merely spending a ton of money on content doesn't guarantee great shows, as Netflix proved with its $20 billion spend on content last year. But here, too, we see a reflection of the Apple brand in emphasizing quality over quantity. Kudos to the development and programming team there because although they're taking far fewer swings compared to Netflix, they are doing a much better job of making every swing count. 

    Third, this may be personal to me, but I'm finding that because Apple+ doesn't churn out shows in high volume, I am much more aware of each new series they release. Other streaming platforms can be an overwhelming tsunami of shows where I feel like I haven't heard of any of them and end up with that feeling of, "there's nothing on." Even HBO Max, whose quality I also respect greatly, is largely unexplored territory for me, but they tend to have a couple of headline series that they promote and are steering viewers towards at any given time. 

    Of course, all of the above is extremely attractive to the most talented creatives with ambitious and original ideas, which makes it more likely that Apple+ will be their first stop in pitching a new documentary or series, and gives Apple+ the best shot at buying the best stuff, which perpetuates the way they've positioned the platform. 

    Fantastic job, Apple+... keep up the great work! 


    great observations, especially:

    Apple+ shows are superb quality, beautifully produced, highly original, notably ambitious and an overall love letter to the "creative class" who are typical Apple customers. 

    Also in the biz here. I fell in love with "Severance" on first sight, didn't you? It just looks so great, even with its extremely spare sets. The choices of camera angles, the editing, the delightful blending of the 70s, 80s, and 90s in the set design... it was only after 2 or 3 episodes that I began to understand where they were going with all of this, and then I fell in love with the scripts and the themes they were exploring and madly in love with the show itself.

    AppleTV+ is not only working with the best talent in the business, clearly they're getting great direction and encouragement from the ATV+ execs. Netflix has some of the best talent in the biz too (I got to work with some of them...), but clearly they are NOT getting great direction from the Netflix execs. I have lost count of how many times I watched some series that clearly was padded out to be much longer than it needed to be, and I'm far from the only person to observe that. I've also lost count of how many times I've messaged a colleague to slag off some of the terrible choices that directors made in these series. One true crime series in particular made appalling choices for interview locations that I'm not sure even a green film school grad would have made.

    All of this builds a brand in people's minds whether they know it or not. That's how Netflix has earned a richly-deserved reputation for tons of mediocre content that leave you (paradoxically) saying, "there's nothing to watch!". Pretty much anything on AppleTV+ is guaranteed to be worth your time if it's a topic or genre you're interested in at all.

    Agree 100% about Severance. It's genius and incredibly original as a searing commentary about work in America 2022. It's a shame that Severance and Pachinko have to compete for awards this year because both series deserve a boatload of them. 
  • Reply 28 of 30
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,919member
    Apple TV+ content is humming (love Slow Horses) but now the content is OK, Apple needs to flex a little. The future of TV isn’t service A vs service B, it’s how you manage all of them.  I have all those major services except Amazon (didn’t like the app) & I’m not even in the US.  I’d probably add Paramount+ and Showcase but it’s getting up there. They need to insist all Apps toe the line with search & channels in the TV App, I don’t want 6 different TV experiences, I want one.

    Maybe they should also throw in a few A/B-list movie rental tokens with the higher Apple One tiers to sweeten the customer base. Or B/C-list rentals with the base Apple TV+ plan (as they’re probably not in the Apple eco-system).
    williamlondon
  • Reply 29 of 30
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,122member
    szipp said:
    I have serious trouble understanding how awards - and especially one for CODA, which is just a remake of La Famille Bélier - are seen as a valid argument for one streaming platform over the other.  
    Lack of imagination on your part. The point of awards is to indicate relative quality to viewers. More people are more likely to consider something that has a lot of accolade behind it, and this isn't at all unique to streaming content. There's a reason restaurants try to get stars or other popular ratings, even your local paper's. 

    As for CODA, being "just" a remake doesn't matter in the slightest. Have most seen the original? Unlikely. We're in a different market during a different time, so the question is only whether they did it well. There are many, many popular movies & shows that are remakes of other material. 
    williamlondontht
  • Reply 30 of 30
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,730member
    szipp said:
    I have serious trouble understanding how awards - and especially one for CODA, which is just a remake of La Famille Bélier - are seen as a valid argument for one streaming platform over the other.  
    really? Maybe it does nothing for you, and that's alright. For many other people, it help builds the brand and mindshare of AppleTV+ whether they know it or not.

    Winning prestigious awards is also a Hollywood contest, but far from pointless inside the business. AppleTV+ didn't exist until 3 years ago and already they're the first streaming service to win a Best Picture Oscar. You think Netflix or HBO is happy about that??? Now millions of people are beginning to mention AppleTV+ in the same sentences as Netflix/HBO/Disney thanks to that.

    And beyond that, winning prestigious awards tells Hollywood's top creative talent that you're someone they will want to work with, and that it will help build their own career and brand to do projects with AppleTV+.

    TL;DR: it's not everything, but it's kind of a big deal.

    [edited to remove offensive references, so that the conversation can continue]
    - RadarTheKat (moderator)
    That is the virtuous cycle for Apple TV+ that is driving content, and ultimately, subscribers.
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