EU law will force Apple to blow open its entire hardware and software stack

124

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 98
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,272member
    I think everyone is missing a very interesting point. This is the same approach as what the unnamed gaming company is trying to do by having their own store to sell to apple device users.
    And the point is this - Any company that develops Intellectual Property i.e. devices/software/apps=Platform and provides these to customers in an efficient and user enjoyable way plus becomes profitable an “Authority” will step in call it monopoly then realize that there are other “Platforms” therefore CanNot call it Monopoly, then create a new law so that if others say “they want to play in Your backyard” “We - the Authority” are going to Tell you how to run your house so that those “others” can pilfer your profitability. This is the bottom line AND this is going in the direction of what I call socialism. With this approach there is no protection for something that someone designs, develops and markets - where is the incentive to build something of worth that is “Profitable” !?!?
    The Authorities must redefine Intellectual Property and the protections that will be in place!
    Your intellectual property is meaningless if “we” want to change the rules and When “we” want to change the rules !!!

    Now, here is an interesting question - what if I want to setup a store in their store, the “others” store - can I do it?
    I guarantee you there will not be that provision - that will be for the next large company but that’s down the road about a decade or so.
    Hogwash! 

    There is no threat to IP. This is focused on choice, competition and level playing fields. On preventing lock-in. On preventing abuse by dominant players. 

    Please read the proposals and what the aims are. Everything is pretty well laid out from the perspective of the current situation and how it favors the big players, impedes market entry to smaller players and harms the consumer.

    Socialism? 

    I literally cannot fathom what you are going for there. This proposal has so far received enormous support from countries of all political colours. 
    darkvadermuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 62 of 98
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,917member
    JFC_PA said:
    darkvader said:
    lam92103 said:
    Excellent. Cant wait

    Same.  If Apple doesn't make these changes worldwide (which I think they will, similar legislation is coming in the US soon), I'll be ordering my next iPhone from the EU.

    It's MY iPhone, not Apple's iPhone, and I should be allowed to install any software of MY choosing on it, from any source of MY choosing.  Apple has no right to stop me, and if legislation is what it takes to force them, then so be it.  Apple should have abandoned the idiotic walled garden nonsense before it ever got started.
    Just buy an Android: Freedom!
    Or mediocrity disguised as 'freedom'.
    darkvader
  • Reply 63 of 98
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,917member
    crowley said:
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    rob53 said:
    EU is a dictatorship, plain and simple. At this point Apple needs to seriously tell the EU to GTH. The US needs to triple import duties on EU goods effectively shutting the EU down. The US should also reduce exports to the EU and cut off any financial support. 
    Weird how the EU dictatorship has so many elections.  
    That how you hide a dictatorship - behind the superficial inclusion of pre-determined options.
    You're suggesting that MEP elections are rigged?   :D
    All Elections are rigged - the options are predetermined.  The voter isn't expressing their opinion, they're witlessly endorsing another's.  What could possibly blind anyone into believing otherwise? ߤ㦬t;/div>
    This is so far beyond stupid I don't know where to start.  
    Why, because it refutes the validity of something you've adopted as foundational thinking? You won't be able to provide a logical rebuttal because there isn't one but that realisation will be painful for you and trigger emotive responses like the one you've just provided.

    Freedom always lays within the determination of your options, not the selection of someone else's. The question is why do so many people fail to see/accept the logic? It's almost as if their rational thinking has been compromised by something - ah yes, defiance. The EU, the US and all Western states know which is why they're so hellbent on choice-based systems and shutting down directive systems like fascism, communism & Apple - they're terrified the woke will wake. 
    edited May 21
  • Reply 64 of 98
    gnulokignuloki Posts: 8member
    This really would just cause them to separate the purchase of iOS from the iPhone. Keep the iOS closed with 'plug-ins' for sale. They don't even have to provide the API's for all the custom hardware, just not actively block it.
  • Reply 65 of 98
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,497member
    entropys said:
    The imperialists will have their vengeance on those uppity colonies and their more dynamic and innovative industries.
    Errrrrr???
    The UK (as in the former imperial owners of the colonies) is no longer part of the EU. 
    Have you never heard of BREXIT? We voted (wrongly IMHO) to leave in June 2016.
    The poms weren’t the only ones to have colonies. The poms’ colonies just were better for it and better at it. 
    And the poms were right to leave, the whole project was just Germany and France doing their born to rule thing, and the Mediterranean countries just looking for a sugar daddy.
    edited May 21
  • Reply 66 of 98
    darkvaderdarkvader Posts: 866member
    entropys said:
    entropys said:
    The imperialists will have their vengeance on those uppity colonies and their more dynamic and innovative industries.
    Errrrrr???
    The UK (as in the former imperial owners of the colonies) is no longer part of the EU. 
    Have you never heard of BREXIT? We voted (wrongly IMHO) to leave in June 2016.
    The poms weren’t the only ones to have colonies. The poms’ colonies just were better for it and better at it. 
    And the poms were right to leave, the whole project was just Germany and France doing their born to rule thing, and the Mediterranean countries just looking for a sugar daddy.

    That's... a take I guess.  A very racist take, but I suppose it's a take.
  • Reply 67 of 98
    avon b7 said: Please read the proposals and what the aims are. Everything is pretty well laid out from the perspective of the current situation and how it favors the big players, impedes market entry to smaller players and harms the consumer.
    Specific to Apple and iOS, the "harm to the consumer" has never been well laid out at all. The EU has specifically ignored the idea of privacy/security as being a competitive feature of iOS that consumers like. The EU never bothered to do any price comparisons between apps on iOS versus Android or Windows/Mac or game consoles. The EU never provided any data that supported the claim that iOS had fewer small developers than Android or Windows/Mac or game consoles. The EU ignored the fact that the iOS/Android version of smartphones is significantly better than what existed prior to 2007. Consumers do not view the Nokia/Ericsson/Blackberry/Palm era as some sort of golden age that has been ruined by iOS/Android smartphones.  
    tht
  • Reply 68 of 98
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,272member
    avon b7 said: Please read the proposals and what the aims are. Everything is pretty well laid out from the perspective of the current situation and how it favors the big players, impedes market entry to smaller players and harms the consumer.
    Specific to Apple and iOS, the "harm to the consumer" has never been well laid out at all. The EU has specifically ignored the idea of privacy/security as being a competitive feature of iOS that consumers like. The EU never bothered to do any price comparisons between apps on iOS versus Android or Windows/Mac or game consoles. The EU never provided any data that supported the claim that iOS had fewer small developers than Android or Windows/Mac or game consoles. The EU ignored the fact that the iOS/Android version of smartphones is significantly better than what existed prior to 2007. Consumers do not view the Nokia/Ericsson/Blackberry/Palm era as some sort of golden age that has been ruined by iOS/Android smartphones.  
    It doesn't need anything 'specific to Apple' because this is legislation for markets and services.

    If Apple were to fall out of its coverage it wouldn't have a worry. The problem is that isn't the case.

    The legislation sets out its case over 108 points and there are plenty where Apple could be affected. Obviously it won't be the only company. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 69 of 98
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said: Please read the proposals and what the aims are. Everything is pretty well laid out from the perspective of the current situation and how it favors the big players, impedes market entry to smaller players and harms the consumer.
    Specific to Apple and iOS, the "harm to the consumer" has never been well laid out at all. The EU has specifically ignored the idea of privacy/security as being a competitive feature of iOS that consumers like. The EU never bothered to do any price comparisons between apps on iOS versus Android or Windows/Mac or game consoles. The EU never provided any data that supported the claim that iOS had fewer small developers than Android or Windows/Mac or game consoles. The EU ignored the fact that the iOS/Android version of smartphones is significantly better than what existed prior to 2007. Consumers do not view the Nokia/Ericsson/Blackberry/Palm era as some sort of golden age that has been ruined by iOS/Android smartphones.  
    It doesn't need anything 'specific to Apple' because this is legislation for markets and services.

    If Apple were to fall out of its coverage it wouldn't have a worry. The problem is that isn't the case.

    The legislation sets out its case over 108 points and there are plenty where Apple could be affected. Obviously it won't be the only company. 
    If Apple falls under the coverage of the legislation, then according to your own prior post consumers would need to be harmed by using iOS. Is app pricing the harm? Is lack of smaller developers the harm? Is privacy/security the harm? What are the market benchmarks that the EU is using to establish that harm to consumers? I haven't seen them using any benchmarks at all. For example, they repeatedly make the claim that having 3rd party stores improves competition. What is that based on? It's not based on market comparisons between iOS/Android or iOS/Windows/Mac. The reality is that the software market is largely oriented around multi-platform development in order to maximize revenue. Unless it's 1st party software or there is some sort of exclusivity deal with the platform owner, app developers are going to release their app on a variety of platforms that are all available for purchase by the general public. 
    edited May 22
  • Reply 70 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,234member
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    rob53 said:
    EU is a dictatorship, plain and simple. At this point Apple needs to seriously tell the EU to GTH. The US needs to triple import duties on EU goods effectively shutting the EU down. The US should also reduce exports to the EU and cut off any financial support. 
    Weird how the EU dictatorship has so many elections.  
    That how you hide a dictatorship - behind the superficial inclusion of pre-determined options.
    You're suggesting that MEP elections are rigged?   :D
    All Elections are rigged - the options are predetermined.  The voter isn't expressing their opinion, they're witlessly endorsing another's.  What could possibly blind anyone into believing otherwise? ߤ㦬t;/div>
    This is so far beyond stupid I don't know where to start.  
    Why, because it refutes the validity of something you've adopted as foundational thinking? You won't be able to provide a logical rebuttal because there isn't one but that realisation will be painful for you and trigger emotive responses like the one you've just provided.

    Freedom always lays within the determination of your options, not the selection of someone else's. The question is why do so many people fail to see/accept the logic? It's almost as if their rational thinking has been compromised by something - ah yes, defiance. The EU, the US and all Western states know which is why they're so hellbent on choice-based systems and shutting down directive systems like fascism, communism & Apple - they're terrified the woke will wake. 
    I wondered if my original response was a little harsh, but my stars, you bulldozed me.

    Crikey, I thought you were just inarticulate, but you're actually scary.  You think fascism is choice-based?  Maybe for a select population, good luck if you're anyone else.  You think a "directive system" will allow you any agency that you would recognise as freedom?   Good plan Batman, you're freely walking into your own oppression.  When have either of those options led to good outcomes for the population as a whole?

    Representative democracy and republicanism is a compromise of course, but one that allows the freedom to choose your representation, or to stand as a representative yourself.  Nothing about it is predetermined, save the printing on the vote slip, and if you don't like that spoil the ballot or write in if you want to protest.  The ballot is an understanding that a community contains a multitude of views, and that building a consensus via the melting pot of a representative congress, parliament, witan or whatever you want to call it, is the best chance to meet the needs of the most people while holding power to account.

    And somehow I doubt this is what rob53 meant.  Nice bit of division-sowing though, I'll think I'll block your crazy ass now.


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 71 of 98
    tehabetehabe Posts: 63member
    I'm really surprise how many are fine with a private company telling you what you can do or can't do with a device you bought for a lot of money. The DMA (digital market act) and DSA (digital service act) are just giving you more rights and more choice. If Apple can't do that safely, that is completely Apple fault. For privacy, the EU already has the GDPR, everyone in the EU has to follow all three of those laws. Also I think it is a good thing that these are European laws, Apple and others only has too follow one law for the entire EU not 27 different laws.

    Also Apple's view on privacy is very weird. Fighting for it on one hand and negating it by scanning all messages and let an unrealiable AI system decides which are bad or good and sent them to the parents. You Americans are really weird.

    But maybe the US will end up being a christian nationalist fascist state after the 2022 midterms or the 2024 elections, so you don't need to worry about that anymore.
  • Reply 72 of 98
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,272member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said: Please read the proposals and what the aims are. Everything is pretty well laid out from the perspective of the current situation and how it favors the big players, impedes market entry to smaller players and harms the consumer.
    Specific to Apple and iOS, the "harm to the consumer" has never been well laid out at all. The EU has specifically ignored the idea of privacy/security as being a competitive feature of iOS that consumers like. The EU never bothered to do any price comparisons between apps on iOS versus Android or Windows/Mac or game consoles. The EU never provided any data that supported the claim that iOS had fewer small developers than Android or Windows/Mac or game consoles. The EU ignored the fact that the iOS/Android version of smartphones is significantly better than what existed prior to 2007. Consumers do not view the Nokia/Ericsson/Blackberry/Palm era as some sort of golden age that has been ruined by iOS/Android smartphones.  
    It doesn't need anything 'specific to Apple' because this is legislation for markets and services.

    If Apple were to fall out of its coverage it wouldn't have a worry. The problem is that isn't the case.

    The legislation sets out its case over 108 points and there are plenty where Apple could be affected. Obviously it won't be the only company. 
    If Apple falls under the coverage of the legislation, then according to your own prior post consumers would need to be harmed by using iOS. Is app pricing the harm? Is lack of smaller developers the harm? Is privacy/security the harm? What are the market benchmarks that the EU is using to establish that harm to consumers? I haven't seen them using any benchmarks at all. For example, they repeatedly make the claim that having 3rd party stores improves competition. What is that based on? It's not based on market comparisons between iOS/Android or iOS/Windows/Mac. The reality is that the software market is largely oriented around multi-platform development in order to maximize revenue. Unless it's 1st party software or there is some sort of exclusivity deal with the platform owner, app developers are going to release their app on a variety of platforms that are all available for purchase by the general public. 
    It seems that having just one store controlled by the same company that provides the platform, and that same company not only not allowing third party stores to even exist, but also deciding for users what kind of titles may be sold through it in the first place is an example of competition for you.

    You shouldn't need comparisons with platforms with multiple stores for that. Please read through those 108 points. It goes far, far beyond app stores. 

    I don't get the angle you are taking with references to harm. 

    The lack of competition in the current circumstances is harming consumers because consumers were never made aware of what they were giving up in terms of competition at time of purchase. Impeding competition is harmful to consumers. 

    I have stated for years now that I see one possible way for Apple to protect its way of doing business and not fall foul to EU regulations. To make purchasers fully aware of the limitations and sign acceptance of them at purchase time.

    Would that actually be enough? I can't know but I very much doubt Apple would try that route because I think they know full well that many consumers would think twice about buying iDevices if they really knew the extent of control Apple has over the business when it comes to what should be consumer freedoms. 

  • Reply 73 of 98
    rob53 said:
    EU is a dictatorship, plain and simple. At this point Apple needs to seriously tell the EU to GTH. The US needs to triple import duties on EU goods effectively shutting the EU down. The US should also reduce exports to the EU and cut off any financial support. 
    True though not all Europeans understand this. The EU is run by the financiers, like all other countries in the world are run by financiers - they finance political parties and corporations and have all the means, motives, and benefits needed to corrupt politics. And they do. 

    That being said, this legislation could be a good thing. 

    Apple has an iron grip on its market; that's not good for anyone. It forces Apple to comply with unjust laws - example removing pro democracy apps from the HK app store some years back. Or forcibly installing tracking and tracing whether you agree or not, based on some government's ideas of it. 

    Apple needs to give up control of the app store. Or more practically, just allow 3rd party app stores, so there is no centralized control. 

    As it is the Apple app store follows all the most restrictive laws of countries like China, India, the USA, and any others who are big enough to matter. It's only a matter of time until these governments make demands on the global app stores. Because they can. 

    How is that a good thing for anybody? Apple's control of the App store was a good thing up until a few years back, when Apple needed to protect its ecosystem; but now they're a standard, and just like any other standard we're all better off when they're open. 
  • Reply 74 of 98
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,917member
    crowley said:
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    rob53 said:
    EU is a dictatorship, plain and simple. At this point Apple needs to seriously tell the EU to GTH. The US needs to triple import duties on EU goods effectively shutting the EU down. The US should also reduce exports to the EU and cut off any financial support. 
    Weird how the EU dictatorship has so many elections.  
    That how you hide a dictatorship - behind the superficial inclusion of pre-determined options.
    You're suggesting that MEP elections are rigged?   :D
    All Elections are rigged - the options are predetermined.  The voter isn't expressing their opinion, they're witlessly endorsing another's.  What could possibly blind anyone into believing otherwise? ߤ㦬t;/div>
    This is so far beyond stupid I don't know where to start.  
    Why, because it refutes the validity of something you've adopted as foundational thinking? You won't be able to provide a logical rebuttal because there isn't one but that realisation will be painful for you and trigger emotive responses like the one you've just provided.

    Freedom always lays within the determination of your options, not the selection of someone else's. The question is why do so many people fail to see/accept the logic? It's almost as if their rational thinking has been compromised by something - ah yes, defiance. The EU, the US and all Western states know which is why they're so hellbent on choice-based systems and shutting down directive systems like fascism, communism & Apple - they're terrified the woke will wake. 
    I wondered if my original response was a little harsh, but my stars, you bulldozed me.

    Crikey, I thought you were just inarticulate, but you're actually scary.  You think fascism is choice-based?  Maybe for a select population, good luck if you're anyone else.  You think a "directive system" will allow you any agency that you would recognise as freedom?   Good plan Batman, you're freely walking into your own oppression.  When have either of those options led to good outcomes for the population as a whole?

    Representative democracy and republicanism is a compromise of course, but one that allows the freedom to choose your representation, or to stand as a representative yourself.  Nothing about it is predetermined, save the printing on the vote slip, and if you don't like that spoil the ballot or write in if you want to protest.  The ballot is an understanding that a community contains a multitude of views, and that building a consensus via the melting pot of a representative congress, parliament, witan or whatever you want to call it, is the best chance to meet the needs of the most people while holding power to account.

    And somehow I doubt this is what rob53 meant.  Nice bit of division-sowing though, I'll think I'll block your crazy ass now.
    I never said Fascism was choice-based. I pointed out a democracy is simply a dictatorship disguised as liberty (courtesy of a few extra pre-determined options).

    “but one that allows the freedom to choose your representation, or to stand as a representative yourself” - yes, representation options which are pre-determined and how viable/likely is standing as a representative yourself? What proportion of voters do this or will they simply endorse status quo and surrender their ‘freedom’ at the precise moment they believe they’re exercising it. 

    I’m not intending to be divisive, I’m simply highlighting there are clear patterns of behaviour both in government & voters. In fact it’s the same observable pattern in Windows/Android fans, they see Apple’s ‘walled garden’ as directive/oppressive and run to whomever offers the pseudo self-determinism of choice. Using our defiance to defeat our rationalism is (evil) genius.
  • Reply 75 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,234member
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    mcdave said:
    crowley said:
    rob53 said:
    EU is a dictatorship, plain and simple. At this point Apple needs to seriously tell the EU to GTH. The US needs to triple import duties on EU goods effectively shutting the EU down. The US should also reduce exports to the EU and cut off any financial support. 
    Weird how the EU dictatorship has so many elections.  
    That how you hide a dictatorship - behind the superficial inclusion of pre-determined options.
    You're suggesting that MEP elections are rigged?   :D
    All Elections are rigged - the options are predetermined.  The voter isn't expressing their opinion, they're witlessly endorsing another's.  What could possibly blind anyone into believing otherwise? ߤ㦬t;/div>
    This is so far beyond stupid I don't know where to start.  
    Why, because it refutes the validity of something you've adopted as foundational thinking? You won't be able to provide a logical rebuttal because there isn't one but that realisation will be painful for you and trigger emotive responses like the one you've just provided.

    Freedom always lays within the determination of your options, not the selection of someone else's. The question is why do so many people fail to see/accept the logic? It's almost as if their rational thinking has been compromised by something - ah yes, defiance. The EU, the US and all Western states know which is why they're so hellbent on choice-based systems and shutting down directive systems like fascism, communism & Apple - they're terrified the woke will wake. 
    I wondered if my original response was a little harsh, but my stars, you bulldozed me.

    Crikey, I thought you were just inarticulate, but you're actually scary.  You think fascism is choice-based?  Maybe for a select population, good luck if you're anyone else.  You think a "directive system" will allow you any agency that you would recognise as freedom?   Good plan Batman, you're freely walking into your own oppression.  When have either of those options led to good outcomes for the population as a whole?

    Representative democracy and republicanism is a compromise of course, but one that allows the freedom to choose your representation, or to stand as a representative yourself.  Nothing about it is predetermined, save the printing on the vote slip, and if you don't like that spoil the ballot or write in if you want to protest.  The ballot is an understanding that a community contains a multitude of views, and that building a consensus via the melting pot of a representative congress, parliament, witan or whatever you want to call it, is the best chance to meet the needs of the most people while holding power to account.

    And somehow I doubt this is what rob53 meant.  Nice bit of division-sowing though, I'll think I'll block your crazy ass now.
    I never said Fascism was choice-based. I pointed out a democracy is simply a dictatorship disguised as liberty (courtesy of a few extra pre-determined options).

    “but one that allows the freedom to choose your representation, or to stand as a representative yourself” - yes, representation options which are pre-determined and how viable/likely is standing as a representative yourself? What proportion of voters do this or will they simply endorse status quo and surrender their ‘freedom’ at the precise moment they believe they’re exercising it. 

    I’m not intending to be divisive, I’m simply highlighting there are clear patterns of behaviour both in government & voters. In fact it’s the same observable pattern in Windows/Android fans, they see Apple’s ‘walled garden’ as directive/oppressive and run to whomever offers the pseudo self-determinism of choice. Using our defiance to defeat our rationalism is (evil) genius.
    If you're using "pre-determined" simply to mean that something happened in the past to put names on the ballot then that's so mundane an observation that it's barely worth acknowledging.  Yes, there's a process to get on the ballot, what of it?  There's nothing rigged about that, there's nothing evil about "something happened".

    And on the same note, if you're referring to the very notion of government as inherently a dictatorship because it creates laws then congratulations, you've identified authority.  The difference with democracy is that the authority can be readily changed, unlike the real world instances of your beloved "directive systems".

    This is so fucking stupid.  Actually blocked now, you've had your chance to respond and you blew it.  Braindead contrarianism.
    edited May 23
  • Reply 76 of 98
    beowulfschmidtbeowulfschmidt Posts: 1,603member
    crowley said:
    rob53 said:
    EU is a dictatorship, plain and simple. At this point Apple needs to seriously tell the EU to GTH. The US needs to triple import duties on EU goods effectively shutting the EU down. The US should also reduce exports to the EU and cut off any financial support. 
    Weird how the EU dictatorship has so many elections.  

    Well, if they're anything like elections here in the US, they're largely irrelevant anyway, since no candidate not pre-approved by the parties in power has a single solitary hope of making it to any office higher than the U.S. House of Representatives, and even there will be rendered ineffective by the majority red and blue.
    edited May 23
  • Reply 77 of 98
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 106member
    Again, Is EU or Putin the enemy of America here? EU is making the choice pretty close 
  • Reply 78 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,234member
    crowley said:
    rob53 said:
    EU is a dictatorship, plain and simple. At this point Apple needs to seriously tell the EU to GTH. The US needs to triple import duties on EU goods effectively shutting the EU down. The US should also reduce exports to the EU and cut off any financial support. 
    Weird how the EU dictatorship has so many elections.  

    Well, if they're anything like elections here in the US, they're largely irrelevant anyway, since no candidate not pre-approved by the parties in power has a single solitary hope of making it to any office higher than the U.S. House of Representatives, and even there will be rendered ineffective by the majority red and blue.
    It's not.  There aren't any pan-European parties.  There's some broad groups and alliances, but they're pretty diverse: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/about-parliament/en/organisation-and-rules/organisation/political-groups
  • Reply 79 of 98
    tehabetehabe Posts: 63member
    crowley said:
    rob53 said:
    EU is a dictatorship, plain and simple. At this point Apple needs to seriously tell the EU to GTH. The US needs to triple import duties on EU goods effectively shutting the EU down. The US should also reduce exports to the EU and cut off any financial support. 
    Weird how the EU dictatorship has so many elections.  

    Well, if they're anything like elections here in the US, they're largely irrelevant anyway, since no candidate not pre-approved by the parties in power has a single solitary hope of making it to any office higher than the U.S. House of Representatives, and even there will be rendered ineffective by the majority red and blue.
    You really should pay attentition what is happening in your own country and not lecturing us what democracy is and what it isn't. The DSA and DMA has been discussed in committees and the public and other stakeholder were able to comment on the proposals. And this is one of the few cases in which the regulation doesn't benefit the corporations but the consumer. And if Apple can't make iOS safe in this environment, I'm would be worried about the safety of the system.
  • Reply 80 of 98
    tehabetehabe Posts: 63member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    rob53 said:
    EU is a dictatorship, plain and simple. At this point Apple needs to seriously tell the EU to GTH. The US needs to triple import duties on EU goods effectively shutting the EU down. The US should also reduce exports to the EU and cut off any financial support. 
    Weird how the EU dictatorship has so many elections.  

    Well, if they're anything like elections here in the US, they're largely irrelevant anyway, since no candidate not pre-approved by the parties in power has a single solitary hope of making it to any office higher than the U.S. House of Representatives, and even there will be rendered ineffective by the majority red and blue.
    It's not.  There aren't any pan-European parties.  There's some broad groups and alliances, but they're pretty diverse: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/about-parliament/en/organisation-and-rules/organisation/political-groups
    Pan-European lists and other changes are on the way.  See https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220429IPR28242/meps-begin-revising-rules-on-eu-elections-calling-for-pan-european-constituency
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