Disney World visitor claims $40,000 credit card fraud occurred after losing Apple Watch

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 54
    XedXed Posts: 1,449member
    ITGUYINSD said:
    Xed said:
    ITGUYINSD said:
    As I read through the article, almost everything made no sense unless these people are absolutely clueless.  Who doesn't have alerts setup on CC accounts that notify you when charges are made?  Did they use "1111" as the PIN for the watch?  Did they ignore every best practice for keeping your information secure?  When does "theft" become negligence on the victim's part?

    Unlimited credit limit?  Sounds like they have more money than brains.  I know AMEX and most banks are very cautious of unusual activity.  Something is fishy.
    1111 isn't the only common PIN that people use, it wouldn't take long to try a lot of them as I don't think the Watch has a wipe after 10 tries. They do have a 1 minute wait after 5 incorrect attempts, but that means you can through 10 common passcodes in under 1.5 minutes.

    It's also possible that someone saw them put in a PIN on their Watch or iPhone previously. Regardless, the Watch with Wallet is a weak point in security so people need to take more precautions so these things are less likely to happen. (Note that I wrote less likely, not impossible—these things will still happen.)
    Who cares?  1111 or 1234 or 2468? Anyone who used easy guessable PIN's or patterns is asking for trouble.  Negligence was my point.  If you can guess it easy, you deserve whatever comes your way when you lose a device.
    I happen to care about taking simple steps that help increase my security. However, that doesn't mean that I'm immune to be targeted by thieves. It's important that you understand that being a victim of a theft doesn't automatically make you negligent.
    MplsP
  • Reply 22 of 54
    It is very difficult, but not completely impossible, to rack up $40,000 in charges at Disneyland/DisneyWorld.  

    That being said, such large transactions (or many smaller ones) would have been flagged as fraudulent and blocked by any credit card issuer almost immediately... except for a very small line of AMEX cards for "rich people with f*** you money" — namely, the AMEX Platinum, and the AMEX Black / Centurion card.  Those cards are often used for unusual purchases with large dollar amounts and they are designed not to pester the user with fraud warnings.  They also have high annual fees to cover situations like this and ensure the owner is serious about using them, and they have 24/7 concierge services.

    Is it possible that this woman was already being targeted for theft?  Yes.

    Is it possible that a shady Disney employee found the watch 'backstage' and unlocked it with a simple passcode?  Yes, but extremely unlikely as this person would be risking their job, their entire career at Disney, and serious jail time.

    Is it possible that this story is made up to avoid paying for $40,000 worth of stupid charges at Disneyland?  Yes.  The police report is only one side of the story.  Credit card issuers can absolutely tell the difference between charges from an Apple Watch, a phone, and a physical card.  Each one has a unique token.

    AMEX has a very lenient policy toward 'chargebacks' and reversals.  This is the number 1 reason that AMEX is not accepted by smaller merchants, as the per-swipe rate is much higher than VISA/MC, and the insurance required to accept these cards can be unaffordable due to the potential for fraud.  And a business that can't afford to pay for chargeback protection would be completely on the hook when a nasty customer abuses AMEX chargebacks.
    edited May 22 beowulfschmidt
  • Reply 23 of 54
    I was on this ride recently with my family. It’s meant for small children and you sit inside a clamshell. I could see leaving a purse in it (though I think the cast members check) but I have no idea how a watch would fall off. Very odd.
  • Reply 24 of 54
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 974member
    Fishy beginning with this sentence, “At a point when the ride was at an elevated position, the guest dropped the Hermes edition Apple Watch through a grated floor on the ride.”
  • Reply 25 of 54
    I'm still trying to work out how she dropped her watch whilst on a ride. I suppose the strap could have failed.

    Regardless, surely CC statement would show where purchases were made as evidence of fraud.
  • Reply 26 of 54
    ITGUYINSD said:
    Who cares?  1111 or 1234 or 2468? Anyone who used easy guessable PIN's or patterns is asking for trouble.  Negligence was my point.  If you can guess it easy, you deserve whatever comes your way when you lose a device.
    Nobody "deserves" to be robbed, negligent or not. That's like saying if a woman is walking home alone at night wearing a short skirt she "deserves" to be attacked.

    A decent person would hand in a lost device (or wallet) without stealing anything within. 
    XedMplsP
  • Reply 27 of 54
    firelockfirelock Posts: 231member
    p-dog said:
    I am calling bovine feces on this person’s story. I do know a lot of people whom I tried in vain to convince not to use a simple four digit passcode such as 1111 or 1234. They tend to be GEN Xers or older and “couldn’t be bothered with the finicky, difficult aspects of technology“ to choose a better six digit pass code. These are also the people who never know their Apple ID password. Very frustrating!
    Gen-X graduated college in the 90’s and helped build the modern Internet economy. We know how to use passcodes. Knowing how to share TikTok over iMessage does not mean that you are tech-savvy.
    pumpkin_kingStrangeDayslongfang
  • Reply 28 of 54
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 793member
    Xed said:
    As I've said before, if you're using Wallet on your Apple Watch don't use the default 4-digit PIN. Any other length PIN will require you to hit enter to authenticate and of course a longer PIN makes the number of potential guesses more involved.
    Nope - as of a couple of updates ago, a six-digit PIN does not require the enter key.  Apple made the Apple Watch match the behavior of an iPhone or iPad - just enter the six-digit PIN & it unlocks.
    dewme
  • Reply 29 of 54
    mike1mike1 Posts: 2,981member


    The fraud alerts allegedly totaled $40,000 in charges to her card. Hearing this, the woman then shut down the relevant credit cards.

    While it is plausible that the woman did end up with $40,000 in charges to her credit card, it seems unlikely to have been caused by the lost Apple Watch.

    Forgetting, for a second, about the whole Watch thing. If AMEX flagged the potential fraud, alerted her about and she said that they weren't legit, that means they will not be trying to collect payment. This is a complete non story.
    DBSync
  • Reply 30 of 54
    williamhwilliamh Posts: 838member
    ITGUYINSD said:

    Unlimited credit limit?  Sounds like they have more money than brains.  I know AMEX and most banks are very cautious of unusual activity.  Something is fishy.
    If they were at Disney, the banks could have assumed the $40k was spent on a meal or a couple of souvenirs.
    ravnorodombeowulfschmidtdewme
  • Reply 31 of 54
    williamhwilliamh Posts: 838member

    After filing an incident report LOL!  The incident report was probably something like this:

    "After fiddling with my watch and dropping it while the ride was upside-down like an idiot, my husband was a jackass and caused a scene when he interfered with the ride while it was in motion.  We put ourselves in danger and freaked out hundreds of people who were waiting in line and watching us.  Sensing the possibility of a huge payout . . . "
    DBSyncfirelock
  • Reply 32 of 54
    ravnorodomravnorodom Posts: 496member
    williamh said:
    ITGUYINSD said:

    Unlimited credit limit?  Sounds like they have more money than brains.  I know AMEX and most banks are very cautious of unusual activity.  Something is fishy.
    If they were at Disney, the banks could have assumed the $40k was spent on a meal or a couple of souvenirs.
    Wait until they visit Universal Studio, it's double the Disney.
  • Reply 33 of 54
    maltzmaltz Posts: 333member
    geekmee said:
    I don’t think so!…
    Where does it say she charged or claimed it was Apple’s fault?
    Can you say? Click-Bait
    Sorry AppleInsider, slow news day or not, a few more stories like this and I won’t bother… Geesh!
    At no point did Malcolm say that she claimed it was Apple's fault. Not in the headline, not in the body text, nowhere.

    Not explicitly, no.  But to be fair, the mere existence of the article implies Apple bears SOME responsibility, or why would Apple even be mentioned?  If I lost my wallet which contains my credit cards (a fair analogy, I think) and then someone used my credit cards, I wouldn't expect to see an article in the news about a man who lost his Bosca wallet and experienced credit card fraud.
    edited May 23
  • Reply 34 of 54
    napmannapman Posts: 25member
    In theory I guess she could have had the setting to unlock her watch with her iPhone and if they were close enough to her when she unlocked her phone it could unlock her watch.  The fact that they did have to stop the ride indicates she probably did lose her watch.  And she filed a police report as well.
  • Reply 35 of 54
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,455administrator
    maltz said:
    geekmee said:
    I don’t think so!…
    Where does it say she charged or claimed it was Apple’s fault?
    Can you say? Click-Bait
    Sorry AppleInsider, slow news day or not, a few more stories like this and I won’t bother… Geesh!
    At no point did Malcolm say that she claimed it was Apple's fault. Not in the headline, not in the body text, nowhere.

    Not explicitly, no.  But to be fair, the mere existence of the article implies Apple bears SOME responsibility, or why would Apple even be mentioned?  If I lost my wallet which contains my credit cards (a fair analogy, I think) and then someone used my credit cards, I wouldn't expect to see an article in the news about a man who lost his Bosca wallet and experienced credit card fraud.

    The mere existence of the article in no way implies that Apple bears some responsibility. You left off the rest of what I said in the cited response..

    "As a reminder, AppleInsider is for everybody, and this piece discusses the details of the Apple Watch -- and no others we saw today did."

    Everybody else just went "the Apple Watch is at fault." We were the only venue at the time to discuss why the core technology probably isn't, and how it's probably an insecure password or on the outside, just fraud.
    edited May 23
  • Reply 36 of 54
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,864member
    Add me to the list of people who think something is definitely off here.  She may even be telling the truth, but it doesn't mean it was caused by losing her watch.  I also don't see how someone racked up $40k in charges without her putting a stop to it.  Even if she had 6 cards, it's unlikely they would have missed that level of fraud.  And speaking of AMEX, the credit is not "unlimited," nor are individual purchases.  There are simply no pre-set limits.  Now, if she had a platinum card, it MIGHT be possible to charge major chunks like that....but it would have to be in her normal spending pattern.  For example, I have a gold card.  I've charged $2,500 in two transactions with an hour of each other at the same merchant (long story).  No issues. But if I go to spend $30k in one shot? I'm at least going to get a verification check.  For my daily cards, I've had low level fraud detected--just for people shopping at Wal-Mart.   

    The other piece here is the actual charges.  I find it hard to believe they can't track down someone who spent that kind of money, especially if it was someone near Disney.  One would think that if the watch was used, they could pinpoint its geolocation data at the time it was used.   
    DBSync
  • Reply 37 of 54
    Xed said:
    1111 isn't the only common PIN that people use, it wouldn't take long to try a lot of them as I don't think the Watch has a wipe after 10 tries. They do have a 1 minute wait after 5 incorrect attempts, but that means you can through 10 common passcodes in under 1.5 minutes.

    It's also possible that someone saw them put in a PIN on their Watch or iPhone previously. Regardless, the Watch with Wallet is a weak point in security so people need to take more precautions so these things are less likely to happen. (Note that I wrote less likely, not impossible—these things will still happen.)

    I had my Apple Watch in my pocket (was weight lifting with wrist straps on so wouldn't use my watch) and when I when to look at it, it said locked for 1 hour. I tried to reset it, but it reset the timer. Not sure how many failed login attempt it was to get it to 1 hour. You have to turn on wipe after 10 tries, so luckily mine was off or my watch would have been wiped.
  • Reply 38 of 54
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,864member
    maltz said:
    geekmee said:
    I don’t think so!…
    Where does it say she charged or claimed it was Apple’s fault?
    Can you say? Click-Bait
    Sorry AppleInsider, slow news day or not, a few more stories like this and I won’t bother… Geesh!
    At no point did Malcolm say that she claimed it was Apple's fault. Not in the headline, not in the body text, nowhere.

    Not explicitly, no.  But to be fair, the mere existence of the article implies Apple bears SOME responsibility, or why would Apple even be mentioned?  If I lost my wallet which contains my credit cards (a fair analogy, I think) and then someone used my credit cards, I wouldn't expect to see an article in the news about a man who lost his Bosca wallet and experienced credit card fraud.
    Pardon me, but that's ridiculous on so many levels.  

    First, it's a news story posted on an Apple-centric site.  The story is about someone who said she lost $40k after losing her watch on a ride at Disney.  AI posted it because it relates to Apple.  Here is an article from Disneydining.com.  Does it blame Disney?  Of course not.  It's of interest to people who may visit that site.  

    Second, your wallet analogy doesn't hold up.  An Apple Watch (or any smart device) is much more than just a leather sleeve.  It's the nature of the device...not the brand...that is at issue.  Would you object if the story was about a Galaxy Watch? Or a Pixel phone? 
  • Reply 39 of 54
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,299member
    If it's on your wrist, how does one just lose your watch? Maybe I don't see enough news or something, but I've never heard of a watch just falling off someone's wrist. I've gone on multiple attractions in Orlando with my watch on including high speed coasters, water slides, rapid rivers, etc...never even close to experiencing my watch falling off my wrist. I'm guessing it was strapped around a bag or something and fell off? Why wouldn't you just wear it as intended, especially something as expensive as a Hermes Apple Watch?
    edited May 23
  • Reply 40 of 54
    roto31roto31 Posts: 1member
    The biggest hole to this story, aside from the facts everyone else has pointed out is this rode never gets elevated. It stays on the same elevation the WHOLE TIME. There is no “grated floor” or “pathway” below the ride, it’s one of my kids favorite rides and been on it hundreds of times. What she claimed is 100% impossible. If she really did report it missing after “her husband jumped out for it” it really would have been sent back to her room or house. Disney is pretty good about that stuff. Is she trying to say someone “pocked” the watch too? 

    I know the cops in the area aren’t all that bright, which I’m sure she is playing into. 
    pumpkin_kingdewmeDBSync
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