Periscope lens coming for iPhone 15 Pro

Posted:
in iOS edited July 2022
Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo has backed up previous reports of Apple adding a periscope lens to the iPhone, with more supply chain information and predictions.




The term periscope refers to a mechanism that allows for a folding lens. That gives iPhones a greatly increased optical zoom while not needing a thicker phone. Apple has long been rumored to be planning to add a periscope lens to the iPhone 15 range, but there have been problems.

A key issue has been that Samsung owns patents on the technology, and Apple reportedly wants to exclude that company from its folding zoom camera supply chain. Apple has therefore been looking to alternative suppliers.

According to Ming-Chi Kuo, Apple is now expected to be a boon for multiple camera component suppliers.

[Analysis] Apple's camera supply chain will enter a two-year high-speed growth cycle thanks to iPhone 15's adoption of a high-ASP periscope design / AppleiPhone 15 @mingchikuo https://t.co/CfUiUe7JQH

-- (Ming-Chi Kuo) (@mingchikuo)


"The complete periscope lens module includes a high-ASP 1G2P lens, two high-ASP prisms, and a lens barrel," writes Kuo in his fuller post on Medium. "The high-ASP materials are keys to boosting the output value."

"Apple's lens supplier will provide more complicated assembly services for the first time," he continues, "so Largan and Genius are expanding their production capacity in Taichung and Xiamen to meet this order."

ASP is the average selling price and in this case Kuo thinks the cost is an issue for Apple, and for its suppliers. "If the initial yield is not good, the ASP may even be as high as $60-70 (USD) or more," he says.

This is one reason Apple is, according to Kuo, now working with five suppliers to get the periscope lens and associated features. It's probably also one reason why the lens will initially be limited to the iPhone 15 Pro, and the iPhone 15 Pro Max.

He also says that suppliers will later be "benefiting from more iPhone 16 models adopting the periscope and other rear camera upgrades." However, he reached out to AppleInsider to confirm he meant specifically the iPhone 16 Pro and iPhone 16 Pro Max.

Analyst Kuo appears to have ceased writing his previous investor note reports around March 2022, and initially then began tweeting his predictions. More recently he's been using Twitter to headline fuller reports that he posts on Medium.

The tweets and reports vary between specific information he has received from the supply chain, and his own supposition based on previous production cycles. This latest one appears to be a mix of the two, with specifics of component manufacturers, but more supposition about the timescales.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 12
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,316member
    Next a flip mirror periscope Len is coming to iPhone 17 so telephone camera can be front facing for checking out what is happening behind you.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 12
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,251member
    So, Samsung owns patents on a camera system and our stupid USPTO and corrupt courts in Texas will keep other companies from creating a similar camera system, something that was designed a couple centuries ago. I wouldn't call it a periscope lens module, I'd simply call it a miniature telephoto lens, something that every camera maker has built. 
    StrangeDaysmattinozwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 12
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 1,101member
    Two worst features of iPhone: notch and camera bump. 
    Will both disappear next year?
  • Reply 4 of 12
    Does this mean new iPhone 16s will cost $3,000+
  • Reply 5 of 12
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,423member
    rob53 said:
    So, Samsung owns patents on a camera system and our stupid USPTO and corrupt courts in Texas will keep other companies from creating a similar camera system, something that was designed a couple centuries ago. I wouldn't call it a periscope lens module, I'd simply call it a miniature telephoto lens, something that every camera maker has built. 
    “There are varying ways to construct a periscope lens especially when it comes to how a company moves the lens’s barrel. Apple wants to use a ball actuator to move the lens barrel, which is in contrast to the spring actuator that it currently uses on its iPhones. Unfortunately for Apple, Samsung — who has a technical lead on the technology over Apple — holds that patent.”

    “Faced with this issue, Apple will either have to change its entire design to avoid using the patented technology or will have to pay Samsung a fee to license the rights to the patent. Both are of course options for the tech giant, but it is likely not a choice the company was expecting to have to make.”

    https://petapixel.com/2021/09/03/apples-periscope-lens-plans-stymied-by-samsung-patent-report/
    muthuk_vanalingamFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 12
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 833member
    tyler82 said:
    Two worst features of iPhone: notch and camera bump. 
    Will both disappear next year?
    Not that Tim Cook tells me anything, but I feel certain both will remain. The periscope lens is mainly to make Apple competitive in the one area where iPhone cameras still lag behind the best: optical zoom range. So we'll have a similar camera bump but a much more capable zoom lens. I laughed out loud when early iPhone 14 "leaks" showed no camera bump--absolutely no way was that happening considering we were also supposedly getting faster lenses and a bigger sensor. (Both now known to be true.) As for "no notch," I don't see Apple getting there after just introducing the pill and hole this year--probably at least one more model year of that design. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 7 of 12
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,707member
    charlesn said:
    tyler82 said:
    Two worst features of iPhone: notch and camera bump. 
    Will both disappear next year?
    Not that Tim Cook tells me anything, but I feel certain both will remain. The periscope lens is mainly to make Apple competitive in the one area where iPhone cameras still lag behind the best: optical zoom range. So we'll have a similar camera bump but a much more capable zoom lens. I laughed out loud when early iPhone 14 "leaks" showed no camera bump--absolutely no way was that happening considering we were also supposedly getting faster lenses and a bigger sensor. (Both now known to be true.) As for "no notch," I don't see Apple getting there after just introducing the pill and hole this year--probably at least one more model year of that design. 
    I have a feeling the notch will be passed down to consumer level devices and pull/hole punch will be the pro level devices - since that’s what the iPhone looks to be doing. 

    The camera bump is unfortunately here to stay as apple wants to stay ahead and pack as much camera/lens as possible. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 12
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,877member
    tyler82 said:
    Two worst features of iPhone: notch and camera bump. 
    Will both disappear next year?
    Give zero fucks about either of them, actually. Hasn’t affected my life in the slightest.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 12
    techconctechconc Posts: 275member
    rob53 said:
    So, Samsung owns patents on a camera system and our stupid USPTO and corrupt courts in Texas will keep other companies from creating a similar camera system, something that was designed a couple centuries ago. I wouldn't call it a periscope lens module, I'd simply call it a miniature telephoto lens, something that every camera maker has built. 
    “There are varying ways to construct a periscope lens especially when it comes to how a company moves the lens’s barrel. Apple wants to use a ball actuator to move the lens barrel, which is in contrast to the spring actuator that it currently uses on its iPhones. Unfortunately for Apple, Samsung — who has a technical lead on the technology over Apple — holds that patent.”

    “Faced with this issue, Apple will either have to change its entire design to avoid using the patented technology or will have to pay Samsung a fee to license the rights to the patent. Both are of course options for the tech giant, but it is likely not a choice the company was expecting to have to make.”

    https://petapixel.com/2021/09/03/apples-periscope-lens-plans-stymied-by-samsung-patent-report/
    I wouldn't believe every story you read on this topic.  Apple has their own patents on a periscope lens design.

    https://9to5mac.com/2021/07/13/iphone-periscope-lens-patent/
    dewmewatto_cobraMacPro
  • Reply 10 of 12

    The basic concept of folded ("periscope") zoom lenses is certainly not new. Here's a summary of a technical paper about folded lenses from about the same time as the Sony DSC cameras I mention below:
    https://opg.optica.org/ao/abstract.cfm?uri=ao-46-4-463

    Perhaps Sony could be a supplier.

    Well over a dozen years ago, Sony had the DSC-T100/T120 followed by the DSC-T700, a very slim point-and-shoot camera (remember those?) with an internally folded zoom lens. DSC-T700 review:
    https://www.photographyblog.com/pages/reviews/reviews_sony_cybershot_dsc_t700.php

    Looks like Sony has plans to incorporate a similar design in a phone coming out soon. Because of this, not sure Apple would be interested in Sony now (not to say that Sony's phone would actually be a competitive threat). Review here (Looks like the Xperia is where the picture in the article comes from):
    https://www.provideocoalition.com/sony-xperia-1-iv-the-worlds-first-true-optical-zoom-lens-in-a-smartphone/

    And as mentioned in post #9, Apple has their own patent. The only reason I can think of to consider Samsung is that they have a really good solution. I guess patents get into particular techniques and perhaps Apple thinks they can find something better than what they patented? Here is Apples patent as shown on patents.google:
    https://patents.google.com/patent/US9316810B2/en
    edited July 2022 watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 12
    CheeseFreezeCheeseFreeze Posts: 1,249member
    rob53 said:
    So, Samsung owns patents on a camera system and our stupid USPTO and corrupt courts in Texas will keep other companies from creating a similar camera system, something that was designed a couple centuries ago. I wouldn't call it a periscope lens module, I'd simply call it a miniature telephoto lens, something that every camera maker has built. 
    Do you think Apple doesn’t have hundreds of similar patents that hold other companies back? 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 12 of 12
    timmilleatimmillea Posts: 243member
    Then there is the special edition yellow iPhone with periscope that is waterproof and has a red button labelled 'Do not press'. Can you resist?
    watto_cobra
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