Apple Card's explosive growth blamed for Goldman Sachs troubles

Posted:
in General Discussion
The rapid expansion of Apple Card reportedly led to a wave of disputed transactions -- which Goldman Sachs says were mishandled by outside vendors.

Apple Card users complain of support issues at Goldman Sachs
Apple Card users complain of support issues at Goldman Sachs


Goldman Sachs is under investigation by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau surrounding customer complaints about Apple Card. Customers report receiving conflicting information or long wait times when attempting to dispute a purchase or request a refund.

According to a CNBC report, people spoke anonymously about the issues surrounding Apple Card at Goldman Sachs and detailed how things evolved. The influx of customers seeking chargebacks was unexpected, and the company turned to automation and outside vendors to manage the crush.

"We were making the case that we have a seamless way to dispute transactions," one source said. "But we got no credit for the front end, and we had some failures on the back end."

These issues were compounded by the use of business process organizations, or BPOs. Goldman Sachs relied on three of these companies to manage customers, but the BPO industry is known for high turnover rates and undertrained employees.

Customers calling in to get help were getting inconclusive answers, and in some cases, requested refunds were denied inadvertently. In February, Apple reached out to users who had claims dismissed to give them a chance to resubmit the disputes.

Neither Goldman Sachs nor Apple commented officially on the report. However, internal sources say that Apple Card's rapid growth was a major factor in creating these issues. For instance, Apple Card users reportedly doubled to 6.4 million users by May 2021, and may have nearly doubled again since.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    JP234JP234 Posts: 211member
    Oh, poor Goldman Sachs! They issued a credit card they don't have the infrastructure to support, and farmed service out to a bunch a fly-by-night operators. And now, they're getting complaints from customers, and under investigation by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Who could have foreseen that a company formerly run by the great Steve Mnuchin would have the hubris to tell a compay like Apple, "don't worry, we can handle it."

    When you don't have enough staff to run your operation, I guess you have to make a choice:
    1) Do like the airlines, and just sell, sell, sell and worry about the bad PR, lawsuits and government investigations later
    2) Cut back or sell the operation to someone who can handle it
    3) Hire enough staff to handle the business

    Looks like GS has chosen option 1. And remember, "we are experiencing a larger volume of calls and longer than expected delays, but your call is very important to us. Please hold, a representative will be with you momentarily. Thank you for choosing Goldman Sachs." (Translation: You're going to be on hold forever, so please give up now.)
    stevenozwatto_cobraFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 2 of 15
    omasouomasou Posts: 367member
    I've had an Apple card since day one.

    They have a feature to chat to a representative, which first goes to Apple then GS. Luckily, I've not had any issues, yet.
    JP234macminionsconosciutoStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 15
    KC in KCKC in KC Posts: 4unconfirmed, member
    I canceled my Apple Card after repeated fraudulent charges that they could not stop.  I wanted off that sinking ship.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 4 of 15
    Day 1 user as well, added child and worked well, kid turns 18 and off to college and GS says sorry their 750 credit score and debt to income ratio too high. Zero debt, savings account and … so much for building loyalty eh? 
    williamlondonsconosciutowatto_cobraFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 5 of 15
    mystigomystigo Posts: 151member
    Day 1 user as well, added child and worked well, kid turns 18 and off to college and GS says sorry their 750 credit score and debt to income ratio too high. Zero debt, savings account and … so much for building loyalty eh? 
    Don't forget to count any support you are giving your child as income for that child. Whether it's allowance, or helping out with the rent. Scholarships count as well. A lot of states have tuition grants for in-state students. It all counts. That said, my son couldn't get one either. We are going to start him off on Discover for a year and then try again.

    For those travelling overseas, it is one of the best cards there is. There are no transaction fees, and the exchange rates used are close to par.

    edited August 9 Alex_Vwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 15
    Being an Apple fan since day one, I thought the GS Apple Card would reflect the quality of the products I have used for so many years. Wrong! Each time I called for service wondering why my transaction was denied, or why I had 3 'phantom' charges applied to my account, I was served by reps who didn't have a clue what was happening. I complained to Apple, but nothing happened. Consequently, I stopped using it; my Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa is my card of choice. 
    mbenz1962stevenoz
  • Reply 7 of 15
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,734member
    mystigo said:
    Day 1 user as well, added child and worked well, kid turns 18 and off to college and GS says sorry their 750 credit score and debt to income ratio too high. Zero debt, savings account and … so much for building loyalty eh? 
    Don't forget to count any support you are giving your child as income for that child. Whether it's allowance, or helping out with the rent. Scholarships count as well. A lot of states have tuition grants for in-state students. It all counts. That said, my son couldn't get one either. We are going to start him off on Discover for a year and then try again.

    For those travelling overseas, it is one of the best cards there is. There are no transaction fees, and the exchange rates used are close to par.

    Like almost every other good card.  My wife’s Capital One Venture card and my Chase Sapphire card both have no foreign transaction fees and exchange rates are the commercial rates which are very close the the published market rate.  Those are bare basic features of a good card these days.  I have a few others that have the features as well. 

    I use the Apple Card to buy Apple products and services and for places that take Apple Pay online so I get the 2%.  I have others that give similar or slightly better returns online but Apple Card is straight cash back so the simplest for me so it gets used where I can. 

    Luckily I’ve not had fraudulent charges or have to try to charge back something.  
    edited August 9 watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 15
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,194member
    Also a Day One user of the Apple Card. I've contacted G-S customer service twice since, to ask a couple of "What If" questions, but have had no issues whatsoever.

    I use my Apple Card exclusively with the one exception of Costco which doesn't take Master Card. I've had no fraudulent or "phantom" charges. There was one instance of an online order that resulted in a $1 charge that was gone the next day. A week later that same company shipped my order and charged my card the full price. That $1 charge used to be a wide spread practice, but I rarely see it mentioned.

    Every previous credit card has incurred at least one fraudulent charge. A phone call cleared each up, some more quickly than others. One of my favorite features is the Card's Advanced Fraud Protection function for online use, which changes the card's 3-digit security code periodically. I can't say to what extent it may be responsible for preventing fraud but I like it. 

    Growing pains are better than not growing. G-S has done ok by me and I'll expect they'll shore up their infrastructure. In the meantime it makes sense to raise the price of admission. So bring on all the investigations and let G-S learn and comply, and be the better for them.
    mbenz1962StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 15
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,174member
    Fraudulent and Goldman Sachs go hand in hand like Uber and PayPal…….absolutely disgusting companies.

    Tone deaf on Apple’s part to use them since Goldman Sachs was right in the middle of the meltdown in the fall of 2008 and not in a good way.
    edited August 9 lkrupp
  • Reply 10 of 15
    pscooter63pscooter63 Posts: 1,064member
    I’m with Macgui on this.  I’ve had many credit cards over my lifetime, but my Apple card is the easiest to manage ever.
    I’ve lodged two disputes, one major and one relatively trivial, and both were handled expeditiously and with aplomb.  (Neither had anything to do with fraudulent charges, in fact I’ve never seen one of those.)
    mbenz1962macguisconosciutoStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 15
    I’m with Macgui on this.  I’ve had many credit cards over my lifetime, but my Apple card is the easiest to manage ever.
    I’ve lodged two disputes, one major and one relatively trivial, and both were handled expeditiously and with aplomb.  (Neither had anything to do with fraudulent charges, in fact I’ve never seen one of those.)
    I second the vote for the ease of use.  The Wallet app is great for managing this card.  

    flipkal said:
    Being an Apple fan since day one, I thought the GS Apple Card would reflect the quality of the products I have used for so many years. Wrong! Each time I called for service wondering why my transaction was denied, or why I had 3 'phantom' charges applied to my account, I was served by reps who didn't have a clue what was happening. I complained to Apple, but nothing happened. Consequently, I stopped using it; my Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa is my card of choice. 

    Like @flipkal ;, I will say that the customer service the one time I needed it wasn't good. Especially when compared with my AMEX. In June last year my bill was made available shortly after the month's end and then for no explicable reason, they drafted my bank for the full balance due on July 6th without me electing for this in the Wallet app.  I had set up to pay the full amount close to the due date, not immediately.  Even after the erroneous payment cleared the scheduled payment was still scheduled.  I called customer service, the Apple rep said it is a GS issue and transferred me. The GS rep said this must have been a bug in the app and transferred me back. The Apple rep then said that that was not possible and that all payments go through an checking process at GS that it was their issue. Ping-Pong. 

    GS escalated the issue to their level 2.  The lady I got said that the system for payment processing has a two factor match to ensure this sort of thing doesn't happen, but in my case the system processed the draft even though the "match factor" that comes from the app when you authenticate (with FaceID or TouchID) was not logged in the system for the early payment and it was for the later payment. They specialist said that they would escalate to the "back office".  I told her though, that I only wanted an explanation and did not want the payment reversed since the amount wasn't large and I would just cancel the scheduled payment to prevent a duplicate payment.  I didn't want the payment to be reversed and then still be waiting on the money by the time the due date rolled around for an eventual second payment.  No further contact from GS and then 3 days later I see in the app that my payment was reversed and a reason listed as "declined - dispute rejected".  I then called GS back and they said that their system showed that I had claimed a payment was made in error and they just reversed the payment end of story and so I had to reschedule my payment.  I asked if they agreed to reverse the payment why does it say on my app "dispute rejected".  She had no explanation for that. Needless to say, I was not to happy with that whole mess. 

    I probably would have stopped using the card after that if it weren't such a hassle to switch my auto-billing over for multiple accounts.  But, since this case didn't actually cause me any hardship in the end and I really like the Wallet app for managing the card, I kept using it for my couple of auto billing accounts and Apple purchases.  Happily, it seems that it was "only" a one time issue and I've had nothing similar since. I could imagine though, many customers would have cancelled the card after an experience like that just out of principle.
    edited August 10 dewmemuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 15
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,628member
    I’ve disputed a few transactions electronically and in a few cases, spoke to someone and have had no problems whatsoever.  The charges were removed immediately pending further investigation and eventually were permanently removed. 

    Most were charges on the NYC subway where the turnstile didn’t accept the ApplePay, but charged me anyway, sometimes twice.  One was at the airport where I “bought” a fast pass, but there was no fast line.   And one, early on, was a bogus charge at a pet supplies store near me, but I don’t own a pet and have never shopped in that store.  

    I was asked for more documentation on some of the disputes. 

    Other than that, no issues at all.  Perhaps the mistake people are making is not disputing electronically first.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 15
    <3 my Apple Card. I spent last year living in Europe where contactless is 100% ubiquitous. Cashiers will actually look at you funny if you try to do it any other way, such as swipe. Here in the US, there are STILL places that don't do contactless and I've even had to explain to fucking millennial cashiers what it is!!! (I am almost 57 yrs old.)

    There are cards that offer better deals than 2% but it's so easy with Apple Card. The only exceptions are my Costco Citi card and my Target Red Card, I always go for that 5% off thru their app. I might eventually work another card into rotation if it offers better cash back for certain transactions... but that takes some work to figure out which ones and then to change my spending habits... naaaaah for now Apple Card works great for me.
    edited August 10 watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 15
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,208member
    Day 1 user, no issues, no fraud charges. Ease-of-management is the biggest feature -- managing it in the Wallet app is just so damn easy. Seeing maps of the vendors, details of the transaction & rewards, and the super-easy payment/interest circle UI model. It works great for me.

    Only issue I had was some Alibaba charges being denied the first time I used it, as they're in China. Used the chat, let them know, and it worked the next time. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 15
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,681member
    I finally got an Apple Card several months ago when I was getting a new MBP. I figured I might as well get 3% off of $2500. I use it solely for Apple and ApplePay purchases and it works fine. I haven’t had any issues but it’s definitely not the easiest card to use, though. Yes, you can see it on your phone, but my I can see the balance on my discover card app and make payments, send messages, dispute charges, etc. The difference is my Discover card transactions automatically download to quicken and I can access the Discover card website on my laptop. Apple card transactions will only download at the end of the month, after your statement comes out. Downloading statements is kind of kludgy, too - you have to do it on your phone, and send it to your laptop.
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