Zuckerberg really wants iPhone users to shift to WhatsApp

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 31
    He has some valid criticisms of iMessage - it is nowhere as secure as Apple makes it out to be. But WhatsApp collects all of your metadata and shares it with Meta, so it's hardly better. I strongly suggest using Signal -- it's cross-platform and open-source, has been independently audited, and collects virtually no metadata.

    iMessage has many problems:

    The problems with iMessage are in two areas: the protocol itself, and everything else.

    The iMessage encryption protocol isn't well designed:

    - In 2016, researchers at Johns Hopkins demonstrated that iMessage messages can be decrypted of they’re intercepted. This is a link to their paper - https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity16/sec16_paper_garman.pdf. While the attack is difficult to execute, it should never be possible.
    - The iMessage protocol doesn't have forward secrecy (https://www.tomshardware.com/news/imessage-weak-encryption-matthew-green,32466.html) -- that means it reuses the same encryption key indefinitely. That makes it much more susceptible to compromise. The Signal protocol has forward secrecy and changes the encryption key on each message.
    - The research team said that Apple should replace the iMessage protocol with something more secure, like the Signal protocol. https://www.vice.com/en/article/d7y7vk/apple-should-replace-imessage-encryption-researchers-warn
    - Following the 2016 revelations, Apple updated the iMessage protocol, using a custom signcryption scheme (see https://par.nsf.gov/servlets/purl/10200009). That paper found that the iMessage protocol is theoretically sound but makes suspect parameter choices: it uses only 88 bits of entropy per-message, and the per-message authentication tag is only 40 bits; both values are too small. Ultimately, the authors claim that Apple made unusual design choices in iMessage and questioned why Apple didn't use a more standardized, well-studied approach. There is speculation that backwards compatibility drove Apple's design process.
    - iMessage does not allow participants to verify one another’s identities and their shared encryption key. The system requires devices to implicitly trust Apple’s servers to distribute user’s public keys. In Signal, you can scan a QR code to verify the encryption key; this prevents man in the middle attacks. See this for more info https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2015/09/09/lets-talk-about-imessage-again/
    - A 2014 analysis of iMessage found that traffic analysis can reveal the Operating System (100% accuracy), type of user action message (96% accuracy), text language (98% accuracy), and plaintext message length (to within 6 characters). https://arxiv.org/pdf/1403.1906.pdf

    In terms of "everything else" -- Apple has access to a lot of iMessage metadata, and in many cases to your chats (via iCloud backups):

    - Apple logs your iMessage contacts, and can share them with law enforcement. https://theintercept.com/2016/09/28/apple-logs-your-imessage-contacts-and-may-share-them-with-police/. Signal does not log your contacts.
    - iMessage data is also accessible to governments since iCloud backups are not end-to-end encrypted. In November 2021, Rolling Stone published an FBI document showing that iMessage can reveal more information that most other messengers, link: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/whatsapp-imessage-facebook-apple-fbi-privacy-1261816/ and see this PDF: https://propertyofthepeople.org/document-detail/?doc-id=21114562
    muthuk_vanalingamliketheskydewmescstrrfAndy.HardwakeAlex_VAlex1N
  • Reply 22 of 31
    JP234JP234 Posts: 771member
    No, seriously… Is it April Fool's Day already?
    scstrrfwatto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 23 of 31
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,021member
    Ain’t gonna happen. 
    watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 24 of 31
    The encryption point is largely semantic. Yes, users can tether their iPhone to a computer, launch iTunes (Windows) or Finder (Mac), and backup. 

    But almost no regular user is doing that, and it also requires the user to disable Messages back up from the iCloud settings on the device. 

    As a general point, Facebook’s claims hold water on this one. People want cloud backups, not to mess about with cables and computers. WhatsApp offers e2e encrypted cloud backup, iMessage doesn’t. 

    For marketing purposes, it’s all good. Now it’s over to Apple to implement e2e encryption for cloud backups. 
    derekmorrwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 31
    iMessage is too limited and WhatsApp belongs to Meta, I think neither is really a good choice. I prefer Signal, since it is available on iOS and Android and it is reasonable secure.
    derekmorrDAalsethscstrrfAlex1N
  • Reply 26 of 31
    Why would anyone care about what Mark Zuckerberg wants?  Or about WhatsApp?
    watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 27 of 31
    In his dreams 
    watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 28 of 31
    mr lizard said:
    The encryption point is largely semantic. Yes, users can tether their iPhone to a computer, launch iTunes (Windows) or Finder (Mac), and backup. 

    But almost no regular user is doing that, and it also requires the user to disable Messages back up from the iCloud settings on the device. 

    As a general point, Facebook’s claims hold water on this one. People want cloud backups, not to mess about with cables and computers. WhatsApp offers e2e encrypted cloud backup, iMessage doesn’t. 

    For marketing purposes, it’s all good. Now it’s over to Apple to implement e2e encryption for cloud backups. 
    But Messages in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted. You don’t have to back up to a computer. I’ve had it turned on ever since it came out years ago, so I’m not sure if it’s the default, but otherwise it’s a simple toggle in Settings.

    I agree that iCloud Backup should be E2E encrypted though.
    edited October 2022 watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 29 of 31
    LeoMCLeoMC Posts: 84member
    Meanwhile, more and more WhatsApp users are migrating to Telegram.
    edited October 2022 watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 30 of 31
    Good grief. Shut it, Zuckerberg, you whining weasel.
  • Reply 31 of 31
    "Apple's dominant iMessage platform"
    Possibly in USA (& Canada?), probably not anywhere else.
    In France at least I think that Facebook (i.e., WhatsApp & Messenger) has the lead, and by a large margin.
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