Europe coming after Apple's App Store with Digital Markets Act

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 66
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,036member
    jayweiss said:
    Let’s screw over the iPhone users so they have the same fun times as Android users and can deal with malware and viruses. 
    I won’t use a third-party App Store so that wouldn’t affect me. At the same time, I have several friends that use Android phones and none of them have ever complained about malware or viruses. I’ve heard those are real on Android, but are they really an active problem? (I mean, aside from potential abuses, are there active abuses happening and I just don’t know anyone who is affected?)

    Yes, this is just one of hundreds on Android.


    Notice that this spyware is not spread through any app stores, it can spread through links in social media networks. But it's only on Android because Android allows for side loading and users are tricked into side loading the spyware. You can't trick some one into side loading if side loading is not possible on their devices.

    And now of days, malware is not what most consumers think it is. Malicious software that is somehow easy to detect by just noticing something different about how your device software is behaving. Spyware accessing your personal data is design to be hard, if not impossible to detect, by just using the device. That's the "spy" in spyware. Your friends could have "spyware" on their devices and not ever know it unless the are running malware detection software and it has to be constantly updated to detect the latest malware.


    This is not to say the iOS is immune, but it's still way more secure that Android because the ability to side load is not there, not even as a choice. There is something to be said about having the choice to choose an OS that is more secure that other OS's. A choice that the EU don't want to give its citizens. 

    Plus governments uses spyware.


    <In hearings this week, the notorious spyware vendor NSO group told European legislators that at least five EU countries have used its powerful Pegasus surveillance malware.<

    Maybe this is the real reason why the EU (and governments in general) is mandating thirty party app stores and side loading on mobile devices. This way they don't have to contract with NSO to install spyware on their citizens mobile devices.








    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 66
    Scot1Scot1 Posts: 121member
    red oak said:
    Maybe we will be lucky enough to elect new leaders to Congress this Fall who will threaten EU tariffs if this is implemented

    All the “gatekeepers” will be American 

    Since Apple doesn't make a search engine or social media platform, most core elements of its business model will likely remain unchanged under the DSA rules. However, the DSA is much more likely to impact companies such as Meta and Google significantly.

    As a non-American, it often strikes me that some thinks the world ends at your front door. 
    The world is much bigger than one country. 

    The EU is a democratic society made of many different countries representing hundreds of millions of people. 
    muthuk_vanalingamavon b7watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 66
    Two words: Walter Peck. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 66
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,989member
    Forcing Apple to allow side-loading on iPhone through alternate app stores will reduce choice for iPhone users, because they lose the option of the secure, 'walled garden' model. Competitors like Google, Meta and Spotify will quickly make sure that their wares are only available via 'alternate' stores that don't do things like restrict their ability to mine user data without informed consent. Many app developers who now submit to QC and security review to get on iPhone will simply stop, and iPhone users will be forced to either accept the inferior, less secure versions of those and other apps or lose the option to use them entirely. This won't increase quality and competition, it will do the opposite.

    Perhaps iPhone users in the EU should file a class-action suit over this loss of choice and seek an injunction against implementing this mess before it starts.
    bloggerblogforegoneconclusionJFC_PAJaiOh81watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 66
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,092member
    AppleZulu said:
    Forcing Apple to allow side-loading on iPhone through alternate app stores will reduce choice for iPhone users, because they lose the option of the secure, 'walled garden' model. Competitors like Google, Meta and Spotify will quickly make sure that their wares are only available via 'alternate' stores that don't do things like restrict their ability to mine user data without informed consent. Many app developers who now submit to QC and security review to get on iPhone will simply stop, and iPhone users will be forced to either accept the inferior, less secure versions of those and other apps or lose the option to use them entirely. This won't increase quality and competition, it will do the opposite.

    Perhaps iPhone users in the EU should file a class-action suit over this loss of choice and seek an injunction against implementing this mess before it starts.
    The media and Apple-hating trolls will feed on this.  They will purposely leave out context in their articles.  When a side loaded iPhone app steals user information, the article will say Apple IPHONE APP STEALS CUSTOMER INFO... it will not make any mention of that app being a 3rd-party App Store app and that Apple has no control over it.  That's what gets the clickbait.
    JFC_PAJaiOh81danoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 66
    avon b7 said: The current situation is the problem. The DMA and DSA are there to tackle it. 
    They're not tackling anything beyond levying fines on companies above a certain size and market cap and allowing billion/trillion dollar companies to charge commissions on the iOS platform. That's all this is about. The EU never demonstrated that the App Store had higher prices or lower quality relative to other operating systems that offered third party stores or internet based app downloads.  
    JaiOh81watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,624member
    avon b7 said: The current situation is the problem. The DMA and DSA are there to tackle it. 
    They're not tackling anything beyond levying fines on companies above a certain size and market cap and allowing billion/trillion dollar companies to charge commissions on the iOS platform. That's all this is about. The EU never demonstrated that the App Store had higher prices or lower quality relative to other operating systems that offered third party stores or internet based app downloads.  
    They are tackling gatekeepers. 
  • Reply 28 of 66
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,036member
    Scot1 said:
    red oak said:
    Maybe we will be lucky enough to elect new leaders to Congress this Fall who will threaten EU tariffs if this is implemented

    All the “gatekeepers” will be American 

    Since Apple doesn't make a search engine or social media platform, most core elements of its business model will likely remain unchanged under the DSA rules. However, the DSA is much more likely to impact companies such as Meta and Google significantly.

    As a non-American, it often strikes me that some thinks the world ends at your front door. 
    The world is much bigger than one country. 

    The EU is a democratic society made of many different countries representing hundreds of millions of people. 

    And some EU citizens seems to thinks the World begins at their doorsteps. Just like in the 14th Century when Europe sent out "explorers" to claim the "New World" as their own. Thus exterminating hundreds of millions of Native Americans that were already settled there. Must still be in European countries DNA.

    And no, the EU do not truly represent hundreds of millions of people. Those hundred of millions of people do not get to vote on any laws or regulations passed by the EU. Even the EU might claim that the laws and regulations are for their own good. The EU represent the government of those hundreds of millions of people. The citizens of the countries in the  EU are represented by the government they elected to run their own country. But the EU gets to dictate how their members run their government, based on the will of the larger and wealthier countries in the EU.  


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 66
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    rob53 said:
    pwrmac said:
    I live in the EU but hate EU bureaucrats. When is the US government going to step up? Sooner or later rhe EU is going to mandate the form factor of devices. But this is a farce. But scammer, criminals will be very happy! Are consumer who sideload malware and the device get compromised going to call the EU for help? No, Apple an other companies get the blame and their reputation will for sure sink. Let the EU develop, market and support their own phone.
    No, you don't live in the EU, you live in a sovereign country. The EU is taking too much power away from the country you live in. Did you have any voice in voting for anyone in charge of the EU? Probably not. 
    EU is a bunch of unelected Bureacrats trying to take down Americas greatest companies while America stupid fight their wars and defend them.

    honestly, enough is enough 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 66
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    I wonder if there is a poll about sending the  unelected communists at EU to the  front lines in Ukraine , I think it will be 90 percent in the affirmative 

    also, stop f-ing  asking for American money for everything  you bunch of useless beggars!!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 66
    I want the App Store, I do not want to have to get my software from outside of it because I enjoy the peace of mind of Apple as a Gate Keeper. Whilst, it does not fully stop rogue apps it will stop a good majority of dodgy apps. Apple just needs to stop being so controlling of its profits and subscriptions, because it is greed and that control that is causing European Union to look at this, and developers to whinge (in some cases justifiably).

    Keep Apple as the Gate Keeper for Apps for security, but Apple, lighten up on your subscription cut for developers.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 66
    red oak said:
    Maybe we will be lucky enough to elect new leaders to Congress this Fall who will threaten EU tariffs if this is implemented

    All the “gatekeepers” will be American 


    This. The rules are written is such a way that it exclusively targets Apple, Amazon, Google and Microsoft but conveniently avoids an EU tech companies.

    laws should target behaviors. Period. Making them only apply to companies with a certain amount of revenue or users is asinine.

    I guarantee this gets challenged in court. Even if they don’t get it overturned they could get the clauses regarding company size removed, forcing ALL EU tech companies to comply. That includes you, Spotify.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 66
    avon b7 said: The current situation is the problem. The DMA and DSA are there to tackle it. 
    They're not tackling anything beyond levying fines on companies above a certain size and market cap and allowing billion/trillion dollar companies to charge commissions on the iOS platform. That's all this is about. The EU never demonstrated that the App Store had higher prices or lower quality relative to other operating systems that offered third party stores or internet based app downloads.  

    I try to block POS trolls, but when others quote them I still end up seeing their shit. Stop wasting time with the obvious troll. If nobody responds he has no reason to be here. Trolls thrive on the reactions they get.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 66
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    red oak said:
    Maybe we will be lucky enough to elect new leaders to Congress this Fall who will threaten EU tariffs if this is implemented

    All the “gatekeepers” will be American 


    This. The rules are written is such a way that it exclusively targets Apple, Amazon, Google and Microsoft but conveniently avoids an EU tech companies.

    laws should target behaviors. Period. Making them only apply to companies with a certain amount of revenue or users is asinine.

    I guarantee this gets challenged in court. Even if they don’t get it overturned they could get the clauses regarding company size removed, forcing ALL EU tech companies to comply. That includes you, Spotify.
    That is because other countries know how to protect their people and companies. Our leaders only know how to put Europe first and Americans last. Not a conspiracy, it’s right in front of us in plain sight….
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 66
    Well, not the end of the world. Apple has already a working macOS app model in place.

    (x) Allow only apps from AppStore
    (_) Allow apps from third party app stores. 

    And that's it. No legislator can interfere with the user's choice of privacy and system protection.
    blastdoor
  • Reply 36 of 66
    Can I just remind everyone that when it comes to charging cables Apple has had 3 types of cables - four if you count USB-C.

    However, Nokia and Ericsson phones had different charging cables for every model that came out until they finally went USB micro. That means the overwhelming majority of charging cables in the EU landfills are from EU manufactured phones.

    But yes, why not just enact laws that overlook all that.
    edited November 2022 watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,624member
    dlt said:
    The EU needs to remember that they would all be speaking German today if it wasn’t for the United States. Apple should quit selling iPhones in EU. Then let the EU people rise up in protest against their leaders. 
    That is incorrect but why would it even be an issue? 

    I'm old and was born so long after the war that people were sourcing it for comedy (cue John Cleese). 

    Are you aware of why the US speaks English, why most of South America speaks Spanish? 

    Language is a tool for communication. Both German and Spanish are probably better suited to universal (especially second) language tasks than English anyway so I wouldn't mind it if I spoke German. 
  • Reply 38 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,624member
    red oak said:
    Maybe we will be lucky enough to elect new leaders to Congress this Fall who will threaten EU tariffs if this is implemented

    All the “gatekeepers” will be American 


    This. The rules are written is such a way that it exclusively targets Apple, Amazon, Google and Microsoft but conveniently avoids an EU tech companies.

    laws should target behaviors. Period. Making them only apply to companies with a certain amount of revenue or users is asinine.

    I guarantee this gets challenged in court. Even if they don’t get it overturned they could get the clauses regarding company size removed, forcing ALL EU tech companies to comply. That includes you, Spotify.
    You obviously haven't read anything on the subject.

    Smaller (non-gatekeeper) companies were excluded because size matters.

  • Reply 39 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,624member
    davidw said:
    Scot1 said:
    red oak said:
    Maybe we will be lucky enough to elect new leaders to Congress this Fall who will threaten EU tariffs if this is implemented

    All the “gatekeepers” will be American 

    Since Apple doesn't make a search engine or social media platform, most core elements of its business model will likely remain unchanged under the DSA rules. However, the DSA is much more likely to impact companies such as Meta and Google significantly.

    As a non-American, it often strikes me that some thinks the world ends at your front door. 
    The world is much bigger than one country. 

    The EU is a democratic society made of many different countries representing hundreds of millions of people. 

    And some EU citizens seems to thinks the World begins at their doorsteps. Just like in the 14th Century when Europe sent out "explorers" to claim the "New World" as their own. Thus exterminating hundreds of millions of Native Americans that were already settled there. Must still be in European countries DNA.

    And no, the EU do not truly represent hundreds of millions of people. Those hundred of millions of people do not get to vote on any laws or regulations passed by the EU. Even the EU might claim that the laws and regulations are for their own good. The EU represent the government of those hundreds of millions of people. The citizens of the countries in the  EU are represented by the government they elected to run their own country. But the EU gets to dictate how their members run their government, based on the will of the larger and wealthier countries in the EU.  


    Hundreds of millions? 

    Where did you get that from? 

    Empires weren't the greatest things for indigenous peoples. Things have mostly changed for the good, don't you think? The US government basically approved the extermination of native Americans. Let's not forget. The only good indians are dead. That was the thinking not too long ago (especially if you are going back as far as the Spanish Empire). 

    In terms of legislation, the EU has done a very good job IMO. While no legislation can be perfect, I see no one complaining about most of what gets passed. Of course you can't please everyone but EU laws have largely been in the interest of EU citizens.

    The EU 'dictates' in line with the treaties which the member states signed. 

    There are also EU elections which take place every five years and are the world's second largest democratic elections. I have voted at least four times. 
    edited November 2022
  • Reply 40 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,624member
    AppleZulu said:
    Forcing Apple to allow side-loading on iPhone through alternate app stores will reduce choice for iPhone users, because they lose the option of the secure, 'walled garden' model. Competitors like Google, Meta and Spotify will quickly make sure that their wares are only available via 'alternate' stores that don't do things like restrict their ability to mine user data without informed consent. Many app developers who now submit to QC and security review to get on iPhone will simply stop, and iPhone users will be forced to either accept the inferior, less secure versions of those and other apps or lose the option to use them entirely. This won't increase quality and competition, it will do the opposite.

    Perhaps iPhone users in the EU should file a class-action suit over this loss of choice and seek an injunction against implementing this mess before it starts.
    You make a case for Apple wanting to have its cake and eat it. Of course, mostly that is what Apple does. 

    Its Apple's way or the highway. 

    If Google takes its services apps out of the App Store then Apple will have to live with that or provide system wide alternatives. 

    Huawei is doing that right now. Huawei Mobile Services, Petal Mail, Petal Search, Petal Maps. Apple could do the same but if they did, would it be good for Google? 

    Definitely not. Google does not want competition because it wants to have its cake and eat it too!

    Through sanctions it has had no option but to watch as Huawei built up its own replacement services to GMS for over 530 million active users. Every time I use Petal Search, it is one less search (revenue) for Google. 

    Do you think it would sit idly and let Apple do the same? I think it would prefer not to.

    The best way to prevent that? 

    Keep its apps on the App Store. 

    Options are good. This legislation will give consumers choice. 
    edited November 2022 muthuk_vanalingam
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