Apple's muted 2023 hardware launches to include Mac Pro with fixed memory

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2023
Apple's 2023 lineup of updates will be muted and headlined by a New Mac Pro, one that will look just like the 2019 model but with a lack of user-upgradable memory.

The New Mac Pro could look like the old one.
The New Mac Pro could look like the old one.


The 2023 product catalog will include a number of typical updates to various lines, as usual, as well as the possible mixed-reality headset. However, one highly-anticipated update may be less of a change than users could expect.

The Mac Pro, the last Mac in the Apple product lineup to be offered only with Intel chips, has already been reported as not including a high-specification M2 Extreme chip. According to Mark Gurman's "Power On" newsletter for Bloomberg, that may not be the only disappointment for the model.

Equipped with an M2 Ultra chip, the Mac Pro will apparently "look identical" to the 2019 model, complete with its cheese grater motif and user-upgradable elements. However, it is claimed that the user-changeable elements won't include memory, as that is apparently tied directly to the motherboard and cannot be removed or changed.

Even so, there will still be two SSD storage slots and other slots for adding or altering the graphical, media, and networking capabilities. Whether this level of upgradability will be enough to draw users away from acquiring the powerful Mac Studio remains to be seen.

Other Macs and MacBooks

Alongside the Mac Pro, an updated iMac Pro has been previously rumored, but would be a surprise to Gurman if it does launch in 2023. A specification bump upgrade for the 24-inch iMac may not arrive until an M3 chip is ready, which won't be until late 2023 or early 2024.

The muted lineup will also include 14-inch MacBook Pro and 16-inch MacBook Pro updates, however it is reckoned the design and features will be static. What will change is the chips to M2 Pro and M2 Max editions, but Gurman offers they could be "marginal leaps" from the M1 equivalents.

As for new Mac models, Gurman refers to a 15-inch MacBook Air as a "saving grace" for the lineup, but at the same time says a 12-inch MacBook is "no longer on Apple's near-term road map."

iPad, AirPods, HomePod, Apple Watch

For the iPad range, there is speculation that larger models are being worked on, but won't arrive in 2023. Updates to the iPad mini, iPad Air, and entry-level iPad will apparently be standard spec bumps, "if they arrive at all."

The iPad Pro updates allegedly won't arrive until the first half of 2024. While a fair way off, a source claims the models will include a new design and will use OLED displays.

Similar disappointments are also proposed for other areas of Apple's empire in the newsletter. For the Apple Watch, Gurman doesn't anticipate major changes in 2023, "save for some minor performance boosts."

AirPods may not get "updates of note" this year either, while there are seemingly no plans for a new Apple TV launch either.

The return of the larger HomePod size is apparently still on the cards, but won't be revolutionary. Gurman says to expect a lower price point, an updated touch control panel, and the use of the S8 chip.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 58
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    I have a feeling that Apple will introduce an M-Series Mac Pro, but keep the Intel version around.
    macxpresskillroylam92103appleuseryeahravnorodom
  • Reply 2 of 58
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,801member
    This is what I expected with the Apple Silicon MacPro anyways. Apple will eventually get there with the RAM. It really depends on what the new max amount of RAM is as to whether or not the users that truly need a MacPro will like it enough to upgrade their existing Mac Pros or those waiting to buy a MacPro to consider buying one. Maybe they'll have some kind of trickery between the RAM and a super fast SSD to try and make up for this without losing a ton of performance. 

    The new MacBook Pro could just use a bump to keep it current. I can't see Apple making any major design changes to it. It's great the way it is in my opinion. I love my 14" MacBook Pro. It's the best laptop I've ever had without a doubt. 

    The 24" iMac could be updated just to keep it current. It's getting a little long in the tooth. I'm surprised they haven't released a regular consumer 27" iMac with like an M1 Pro by now. I know M1 is kinda done now so I don't expect M1 SoC's anymore in Macs. I don't think the average consumer really cares when the iMac was last updated though. It's still a great desktop Mac today even though it's approaching I think 3yrs old?

    I still would like to see that rumored Mac mini design come to fruition. That looks like a great design for it with colors and everything. Maybe someday when it's the right time they will. 

    We can only go off "rumors" and we don't really know what's going on, what's going to be released and what was canceled for whatever reason. I don't think it's fair to draw true conclusions for 2023 based off rumors. We'll all just have to wait and see. 
    racerhomie3
  • Reply 3 of 58
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,801member
    DAalseth said:
    I have a feeling that Apple will introduce an M-Series Mac Pro, but keep the Intel version around.
    I did have this thought as well. It makes sense if they're keeping the same exact design for both versions. They don't have to mill 2 different cases. 
    killroycornchip
  • Reply 4 of 58
    killroykillroy Posts: 271member
    Well any new Mac Pro will be PCIe4 bus. Now how many lanes and slots is another thing.
    rob53
  • Reply 5 of 58
    lam92103lam92103 Posts: 122member
    I hope they refresh the Intel Mac Pro
    williamlondondewmecornchipkillroy
  • Reply 6 of 58
    My dream version of the Mac Pro: Modular Design.

    Create a series of bricks having the same length and width (a la Mac Studio, OWC Ministack STX, etc.) but with different heights.  Allow these to be vertically stacked to customize the server of your dreams.  I would then create:
    • CPU - essentially an upgraded Mac Studio
    • RAID array module based on M.2 SSDs
    • RAID array module based on HDDs
    • PCI expansion modules (for graphics cards, scientific packages, etc.)
    • Power backup module (lithium battery for space)
    The Mac Pro 'special sauce' would be the integration between all the components.  I'd make the footprint larger than the Mac Studio to support the 312mm PCI cards and appropriate cooling fans.  Extra credit for allowing multiple CPU modules to work together.

    Were Apple to go this route, I believe they could capture the majority of revenue associated with server hardware.

  • Reply 7 of 58
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    The Mac Pro, the last Mac in the Apple product lineup to be offered only with Intel chips, has already been reported as not including a high-specification M2 Extreme chip. According to Mark Gurman's "Power On" newsletter for Bloomberg, that may not be the only disappointment for the model.

    Equipped with an M2 Ultra chip, the Mac Pro will apparently "look identical" to the 2019 model, complete with its cheese grater motif and user-upgradable elements. However, it is claimed that the user-changeable elements won't include memory, as that is apparently tied directly to the motherboard and cannot be removed or changed.

    Even so, there will still be two SSD storage slots and other slots for adding or altering the graphical, media, and networking capabilities. Whether this level of upgradability will be enough to draw users away from acquiring the powerful Mac Studio remains to be seen.
    It would be a bit disappointing if it had the exact same chassis as the 2019 model but it would be ok if it had the same design style in a different form factor, it's a nice design. It would mainly be disappointing due to indicating that Apple doesn't plan to scale their GPUs up any higher but if the end product does the job, I don't suppose it matters much.

    The same chassis suggests they'd plan to offer PCIe GPU support. Presumably this would be a Pro version of the Radeon GPUs. There isn't a 7000 series available yet.

    The current Mac Pro uses up to W6900X (22TFLOPs):
    https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-pro-w6900x.c3825

    The gaming card Radeon 7900XTX (61TFLOPs) is available, this is about 20% slower than the Nvidia 4090:
    https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-7900-xtx.c3941

    The Pro GPUs have launched about 1.5 years apart and the 6000 series was in June 2021. They are a bit slower than the gaming cards. A Radeon Pro W7900X would likely be around 50TFLOPs and the Mac Pro would allow 2 of them. The next Ultra on 4/5nm would have a ~30TFLOPs internal GPU.

    Base model Ultra = $4k
    Each W7900X = $5.5k

    I would have preferred to see them make a dual Ultra model. The Nvidia 4090 can fit into fairly compact builds and a dual Ultra would have been similar instead of a standard tower.



    But the tower offers more power. Dual Ultra would be 60TFLOPs, Ultra + dual W7900X = 130TFLOPs. Plus hardware raytracing, which will hopefully make it into Apple's chips eventually.

    This would also suggest it won't replace the Studio model, which has a Max option at $2k.

    Apple has left an x86 model in the lineup after updating most of the Mac models so it's a possibility here too and would cover scenarios that need more RAM. The Mac Pro Ultra will probably allow for 256GB RAM and maybe a bit more.

    It wouldn't be a very noteworthy upgrade but it doesn't really need to be.
  • Reply 8 of 58
    I wonder if Apple will introduce a whole new SOC for the desktops with Mac Pro. A D series or X series that clocks much higher and is tuned for more power consumption. It makes sense. Might also explain the M possibly not being “Mac” but rather “mobile.” 

    The M series is basically a mobile SOC family, leaving it to the Frankenstein Ultra to measure up to desktop expectations. 

    Having a dedicated desktop architecture, still based on the same foundation, but afforded some fire breathing room. 

    Keep the awesome Mac Peo case. No need to change. And pack it with power. 

    williamlondon
  • Reply 9 of 58
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,258member
    DAalseth said:
    I have a feeling that Apple will introduce an M-Series Mac Pro, but keep the Intel version around.
    Maybe, but it seems like the high-end desktop lineup would be pretty crowded with Mac Studio, Apple Silicon Mac Pro, and Intel Mac Pro. 

    If they were to keep the Intel Mac Pro around, then I don't see the point of an Apple silicon Mac Pro that lacks upgradeable RAM. Might as well keep the Mac Pro Intel (or AMD) only and use the Mac Studio as the highest-end Apple Silicon machine. 
  • Reply 10 of 58
    AniMillAniMill Posts: 155member
    If the rumors are anything to go by, I’d say the Mac Pro will be built on the 3nm structure…so M3 Extreme w/ up to 768GB RAM and 16TB SSD. Then to make it “modular” perhaps allow up to 4 AMD GPU’s for scientific scaling, along with other custom PCIe4 components: RAID-SSD m.2, 100GBe networking, sound blaster, et al.

    It’s got to have a kickass insanely great framework to justify the $$$$$, and delayed release. Here’s hoping.
  • Reply 11 of 58
    DAalseth said:
    I have a feeling that Apple will introduce an M-Series Mac Pro, but keep the Intel version around.
    Apple historically doesn’t really do the hang on to the past thing. 

    Also consider that getting rid of Intel would vastly simplify software development efforts. 
    edited January 2023 killroydewmecaladanian
  • Reply 12 of 58
    thadecthadec Posts: 97member
    My dream version of the Mac Pro: Modular Design.

    Create a series of bricks having the same length and width (a la Mac Studio, OWC Ministack STX, etc.) but with different heights.  Allow these to be vertically stacked to customize the server of your dreams.  I would then create:
    • CPU - essentially an upgraded Mac Studio
    • RAID array module based on M.2 SSDs
    • RAID array module based on HDDs
    • PCI expansion modules (for graphics cards, scientific packages, etc.)
    • Power backup module (lithium battery for space)
    The Mac Pro 'special sauce' would be the integration between all the components.  I'd make the footprint larger than the Mac Studio to support the 312mm PCI cards and appropriate cooling fans.  Extra credit for allowing multiple CPU modules to work together.

    Were Apple to go this route, I believe they could capture the majority of revenue associated with server hardware.

    The Mac Pro is not a server. Its hardware is only suitable for a small server. And macOS is not a server OS. Right now, the highest configuration Mac Pro has a CPU with only 28 cores. Currently most ARM server CPUs have up to 128 cores. The Nvidia Grace CPU that will launch in a few weeks will have up to 144 cores and its 2nd gen version will have 196 cores. AMD's Epyc server CPUs go from 128 cores to 192 cores this year with the move to 5nm, and will increase again in 2025 when 3nm Epyc CPUs debut.

    The Mac Pro is a workstation, not a server. There have always been plenty of workstations more powerful than the Mac Pro that cost significantly less. And when Apple switches the Mac Pro from Intel to Apple Silicon, this will become even more so. The M1 Ultra is 2.6X slower than AMD's Threadripper Pro 5995WX. And unlike Epyc, Threadripper is a workstation chip. This means that even if Apple does eventually do an M2 or M3 Extreme, Intel and AMD's real competition in workstations - not servers! - will be each other, not Apple. 
    edited January 2023 muthuk_vanalingamadam veniercaladanian
  • Reply 13 of 58
    By now it feels like the only reason Apple would release such a product is the fact they once promised a revised Mac Pro. That and a handful of actual users.
    If the M2 Max & Ultra end up being impressive, a Mac Studio will do for 99% of the users. 
    Mac Pro seems more of a “PC Windows” concept. 
  • Reply 14 of 58
    This is the first time I've heard the 2023 launches are mooted to be muted. Doesn't sound like much will be happening at all in 2023 if things are muted. Turn it up to minus 11! 😂🤣
    jellybelly
  • Reply 15 of 58
    macxpress said:
    It's getting a little long in the tooth. 
    How long do teeth get? I wonder what the origin of this saying is. 

    Makes me wonder whether Tim Cook still has his natural teeth, whether he has any titanium implants, or whether he adventures with dentures. 

    Bring on the M3 processor!
    nubuskillroyjellybelly
  • Reply 16 of 58
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    longfang said:
    DAalseth said:
    I have a feeling that Apple will introduce an M-Series Mac Pro, but keep the Intel version around.
    Apple historically doesn’t really do the hang on to the past thing. 

    Also consider that getting rid of Intel would vastly simplify software development efforts. 
    True, but there’s Mac Pro users that need massive amounts of RAM. Amounts that Apple Silicon just doesn’t support.

    That said, I’m not a computer engineer so it may be a crazy idea;
    Would it be feasible to use two tiers of RAM? The high speed RAM built into the chip, and then a TB or more of comparatively slow conventional RAM in sticks on the MB like it has now? It would have to keep track of what needed to be kept in the extra high speed on chip space, and what could be parked on the sticks. It would be like virtual RAM does now but not to the SSD.
    Not sure how feasible this is but it was a crazy idea that just crossed my mind. 
    muthuk_vanalingamkillroy
  • Reply 17 of 58
    You will be able to upgrade the memory by buying a brand new one a couple of years later.
    williamlondondanox
  • Reply 18 of 58
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,299member
    I wonder if Apple will introduce a whole new SOC for the desktops with Mac Pro. A D series or X series that clocks much higher and is tuned for more power consumption. It makes sense. Might also explain the M possibly not being “Mac” but rather “mobile.” 

    The M series is basically a mobile SOC family, leaving it to the Frankenstein Ultra to measure up to desktop expectations. 

    Having a dedicated desktop architecture, still based on the same foundation, but afforded some fire breathing room. 

    Keep the awesome Mac Peo case. No need to change. And pack it with power. 

    How would it differ it terms of implementation other than just binning the chips they make now to upscale the clock where the heat sink can pull fast enough. 

    I do wonder if Apple might be trying to get PCie 5 and CXL2.0 into the upper tiers dies so they could replace the current memory sticks of the MacPro with a CXL switch and pool of RAM open to any device in the case that works to the standard but each device would have "fixed memory" so machine would work with no RAM in the slots or a pool of Persistent RAM or a mix. With the near RAM of the SOC and other accelerators like GPUs or the after burner.

    Might give the MacPro access to a range of new cards being aimed at Data Center application using these standards if they suit Mac applications.

    I guess it would be a matter of what advantage that might give MacStudio and MacBookPro to make it worthwhile?
  • Reply 19 of 58
    DAalseth said:
    longfang said:
    DAalseth said:
    I have a feeling that Apple will introduce an M-Series Mac Pro, but keep the Intel version around.
    Apple historically doesn’t really do the hang on to the past thing. 

    Also consider that getting rid of Intel would vastly simplify software development efforts. 
    True, but there’s Mac Pro users that need massive amounts of RAM. Amounts that Apple Silicon just doesn’t support.

    That said, I’m not a computer engineer so it may be a crazy idea;
    Would it be feasible to use two tiers of RAM? The high speed RAM built into the chip, and then a TB or more of comparatively slow conventional RAM in sticks on the MB like it has now? It would have to keep track of what needed to be kept in the extra high speed on chip space, and what could be parked on the sticks. It would be like virtual RAM does now but not to the SSD.
    Not sure how feasible this is but it was a crazy idea that just crossed my mind. 
    Technically having the on-package RAM and the regular external RAM is fully feasible from the hardware POV, with all the engineering and power costs associated with it.

    To make proper usage of top speed memory would ideally involve providing special APIs to enable the applications providing hints to the OS as to what’s most important to be fast, something that’s not unheard of in operating systems, No OS will know how to optimize everything as-is, and a decent OS enables developers and users to set parameters as to what and how to optimize for their needs.
    DAalseth
  • Reply 20 of 58
    DAalseth said:
    longfang said:
    DAalseth said:
    I have a feeling that Apple will introduce an M-Series Mac Pro, but keep the Intel version around.
    Apple historically doesn’t really do the hang on to the past thing. 

    Also consider that getting rid of Intel would vastly simplify software development efforts. 
    True, but there’s Mac Pro users that need massive amounts of RAM. Amounts that Apple Silicon just doesn’t support.

    That said, I’m not a computer engineer so it may be a crazy idea;
    Would it be feasible to use two tiers of RAM? The high speed RAM built into the chip, and then a TB or more of comparatively slow conventional RAM in sticks on the MB like it has now? It would have to keep track of what needed to be kept in the extra high speed on chip space, and what could be parked on the sticks. It would be like virtual RAM does now but not to the SSD.
    Not sure how feasible this is but it was a crazy idea that just crossed my mind. 
    They could also develop something like the persistent memory Intel tried and failed to make work (Optane is dead after three generations). There is something similar in development called CXL (compute express link) which is not proprietary, as far as I know. It exists because datacenters exist, but that isn’t the only use. Intel was promoting persistent memory for workstation use as well.
    DAalseth
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