Apple Silicon Mac Pro in testing with macOS 13.3
Apple is reportedly testing the Mac Pro using a version of macOS Ventura that is expected to be released in the spring.
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The New Mac Pro could look like the old one.
Backing up his own recent reports that Apple is working on an M2 Ultra version of the Mac Pro, Bloomberg's Mark Gurman now expects a spring launch for this latest Mac to switch to Apple Silicon.
Gurman is basing this on how Apple's current developer beta is macOS Ventura 13.2. A version 13.3 is to be expected shortly, although there is no specific timescale.
It's also not a guarantee that testing a Mac Pro with macOS 13.3 means the device will be released alongside the operating system. However, it does suggest that the Mac Pro will not be able to run macOS 13.2, which fits with how new devices routinely need support within the OS.
The Mac Pro and a solitary Mac mini configuration are the only Mac currently still running on an Intel processor. At WWDC 2022, Apple hinted that the refresh was coming, but more recent reports have suggested that the plans for an M2 "Extreme" have been scaled back.
Read on AppleInsider
The New Mac Pro could look like the old one.
Backing up his own recent reports that Apple is working on an M2 Ultra version of the Mac Pro, Bloomberg's Mark Gurman now expects a spring launch for this latest Mac to switch to Apple Silicon.
The Apple Silicon Mac Pros in testing currently run macOS 13.3. The X.3 macOS release is typically out in spring. https://t.co/Pq4jhEu7BA
-- Mark Gurman (@markgurman)
Gurman is basing this on how Apple's current developer beta is macOS Ventura 13.2. A version 13.3 is to be expected shortly, although there is no specific timescale.
It's also not a guarantee that testing a Mac Pro with macOS 13.3 means the device will be released alongside the operating system. However, it does suggest that the Mac Pro will not be able to run macOS 13.2, which fits with how new devices routinely need support within the OS.
The Mac Pro and a solitary Mac mini configuration are the only Mac currently still running on an Intel processor. At WWDC 2022, Apple hinted that the refresh was coming, but more recent reports have suggested that the plans for an M2 "Extreme" have been scaled back.
Read on AppleInsider
Comments
Hopefully the Extreme version comes out. Definitely want to see how they bridge it all together. Like I said in prior comments, priority 1 is to do better on getting GPU performance to scale with cores. The M2 and A16 GPU have some nice performance increases, but the big problem is how well it will scale with 20, 40, 80 cores.
Apple may be big enough to have their own games platform that they nourish, and won't be subject to the resource competition with game consoles and PCs. Either this, or make it an iOS box and be able to play iOS games with a keyboard or controller. iOS apps on Macs haven't been popular with developers though. Surprising resistance from developers, or perhaps not, on letting the iOS apps run on Macs.
Hardware wise, an M1 Pro in a Mac mini for $800 would be just fine as "gaming PC". If people want more, there's the Studio, but Apple will have to drop the price. Apple just aren't interesting in games for Macs.
For the Mac Pro, the 2019 model is the correct form factor. Big enough to put a lot of stuff in it, properly sized to be either a desktop tower or rack mounted. I would hope that they ship a M2 Max model for say $3k, but they won't. It's going to be a 5k to 10k+ machine, for people who will find it valuable. A set of big questions is whether they'll support AMD GPUs or put a M2 Max and M2 Ultra chips in an MPX module.
ARM have support for new PCIe5.0 - CXL2.0 and a die to die interconnect launching this year firstly in an Nvidia server chip but expanding across the year. Given Apples ARM licence they would be aware of these efforts and could in theory use any or all parts of this that make sense for them also in a chip launching this year. Assuming they's hadn't rolled their own support and it works better.
Given MacPro chip are more server like it would seem to make sense that Apple would be waiting for these things for the MacPro. Would seem to be be a bonus if NVIDIA are in there they'd also be readying GPU's with CXL that will work with their own ARM based CPUs.
With both NVIDIA and AMD adopting CXL this year with aims to move towards consumer hardware over the next few years it would seem a good plan (to me at least) for Apple to be in there doing it as well.
Real pros want to know how well it works with their existing hardware and software workflow. It's not about how their software "can be optimized for it" it's about how it works NOW. And if that fails, it's worthless.
Also, you are ignoring the real thing holding back gaming on macOS: small market share. 2022 was the best year for Mac market share since the combination of Windows 8 and people who fell for Apple's "an iPad can replace your PC" marketing campaign had x86 down in the dumps ... and it was still under 11%! (One analyst had it under 10%.) And most of that "less than 11%" are the entry level models running CPUs with 4 performance cores that - in gaming - would perform about as well as systems with Intel Core i5 in CPU performance and worse than those with NVIDIA GeForce 1650 in graphics (basically entry level gaming laptops). Developers aren't going to create ports of their games for such a tiny market share.
The only way that Apple is going to become a factor in gaming with their silicon is to create a console. But ... fat chance. Both Microsoft and Sony lose money on XBox and PlayStation consoles. Nintendo doesn't, but only because the Nintendo Switch is actually a smaller, cheaper version of the Nvidia Shield Android tablet from 2014. And the Shield was never a premium tablet ... the first version started at $299 and the K1 version cost $199. And the parts for the Shield and Shield K1 were state of the art in 2014 and 2015. When the Switch came out in 2017 they were already outdated. So now the current Switch is basically an 8 year old midrange Android tablet like the Nexus 9 (which also used the Nvidia Tegra K1).
At the very minimum, Apple would need to use an M1 in a console that costs only $500. Even that is debatable ... the PS5 and the XBox Series X cost $500 but give you 8K gameplay (in theory) and their AMD CPUs would thrash the M1, especially in graphics. The M1 is better than to the XBox Series S, which costs $300 but outputs only 1080p. So charge $400 for it and call it a day. Except Apple isn't going to lose $100-$150 on every M1 console sold under their current business model (where you lose money on the hardware in order to make it back on AAA exclusives made by studios that you own for $60-$70 apiece, not including DLC).
Apple sells an Apple TV with A15 SoC, 4 GB RAM, 128 GB storage and Ethernet for $150. This sounds like it is an "at cost" to a break-even price. You double everything about it, and it is basically an M1 with 8 GB RAM, 256 GB of storage for $300. Add some profit margin and you get to $400. For an M1 Pro, you just double again as that is basically what an M1 Pro is over a M1, and that gets you to $800. Not a lot of profit, but doable. (You can think of it as would Sony or MS have hardware profit margins if they sold a PS5 or XBox series X for $800.)
Hardware isn't the problem. It's the will to nurture a games ecosystem on macOS that is the problem. They don't want to do it. I don't think they need to have leading GPU performance either. Just have good games exclusive to the platform. For that, I think the only choice is to become a games publisher and develop a set of games that would be able to sell the platform. They are spending billions on exclusive Apple TV+ shows to sell subscriptions in quite the long game. They can spend billions on exclusive games to sell both subscriptions and hardware.
I think the upgradeability of the hardware is not really material until Apple actually commits to having a gaming ecosystem. If someone wants higher end hardware, they can just get a Mac Studio in a trade-in or a sell-buy cycle. They won't get the PC builder hobbyists, but they aren't a big part of the market. It all doesn't matter as long as they don't have games and the availability of good Mac hardware isn't going to cause games to be ported or developed for it. So, in short, a Nintendo strategy, not a Playstation or Xbox strategy. They definitely have enough units imo.
No matter what, they are going to be a 4th player. That inevitably means a niche player, but it behooves them to do it as it keeps some fraction of their customers happy and will stay in the ecosystem rather buying a game console or a PC to play games. If Arcade had good exclusive games, I can see it happen, but Arcade is really just an iOS game subscription service, with existing games.
Apple would fail at being a game publisher, because Apple would only want to release G-rated games. It would be a waste of everybody's time.