White House calls Apple and Google 'harmful' in bid to cut app store fees

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 88
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    DarkMouze said:
    Madbum said:
    spheric said:
    Madbum said:
    This White House , which I regretfully voted For

    is fast tracking our families  to a Nuclear War vs Russia….

    is helping European Union bashing America’s greatest companies while doing nothing against European companies 



     a complete shit show in more ways than one ….
    ߘⰟ肰

    I was waiting for someone to tie this into EU-bashing. 
    Well, do you see EU bash their own companies? No they know how to protect their own and tax base.

    but current American government stands with Europeans more than Americans ….
    Do you really expect us to see coverage in the media of European regulation of European companies? Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. The companies we’re talking about here are technically American companies, but they’re really fully international in their scope, size and influence. Not surprising they get attention from everywhere.
    We are in 2023. We have easy access to European media
    edited February 2023 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 88
    thttht Posts: 5,421member
    The National Telecommunications and Information Administration wants Apple and Google to be forced to have third-party app stores, saying that as-is, the model inflates prices and reduces innovation.
    The former reason of "inflates prices" is flat out wrong. If there is an economics model that proves otherwise or proves their statement, I'd like to see. Apple's App Store and Google's Play Store and Amazon's Marketplace are gigantic aggregators of stuff and a buyer is able to cross shop from all potential competing products. This drives prices to the absolute minimum possible. Allowing 3rd party app stores will introduce artificial scarcity. It makes it harder for people to cross-shop and cross-compare. Those things drive up prices.

    The latter reason of "reduces innovation" is one of those vague terms plaintiffs always use in monopoly cases. I'd like to something more specific.
    radarthekatFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 88
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,544member
    Madbum said:
    DarkMouze said:
    Madbum said:
    spheric said:
    Madbum said:
    This White House , which I regretfully voted For

    is fast tracking our families  to a Nuclear War vs Russia….

    is helping European Union bashing America’s greatest companies while doing nothing against European companies 



     a complete shit show in more ways than one ….
    ߘⰟ肰

    I was waiting for someone to tie this into EU-bashing. 
    Well, do you see EU bash their own companies? No they know how to protect their own and tax base.

    but current American government stands with Europeans more than Americans ….
    Do you really expect us to see coverage in the media of European regulation of European companies? Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. The companies we’re talking about here are technically American companies, but they’re really fully international in their scope, size and influence. Not surprising they get attention from everywhere.
    We are in 2023. We have easy access to European media
    Yeah. But since I've already caught you in a lie, you don't get to claim you actually read any of it. 

    Because you obviously don't. 
    williamlondonradarthekatroundaboutnowmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 88
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,335member
    OMG ... I am totally shocked that anyone in the US government has any bandwidth at all left to address anything else, you know with the "End of civilized life on earth as we know it crisis!" i.e., Taylor Swift concert ticket mayhem, still going on.

    I'm so glad to see our public servants burning the midnight oil on these topics of critical interest to our society and maintaining world order. The stress is just too much. Maybe they should just back off for a while so we can get most of our sanity back to a manageable level. You know, with the Super Bowl in less than two weeks, halftime show uncertainty and all, Swifties Without Tickets (SWT) ready to march on Washington armed with cat toys, we just need to focus on one crisis at a time and direct all of our available physical and mental resources to the daunting challenges of the next two weeks.
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 88
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,989member
    darkvader said:
    And right on time the ignorant fanbois and right wing nutjobs are spouting their nonsense again.

    The WORST thing about Apple is the closed ecosystem on the iDevices.  It needs to be fixed, and since it looks like it's going to take government action to force it open, government action is what needs to happen.

    It's MY iPhone, not Apple's iPhone.  I have a right to load ANY software of MY choosing on MY iPhone.  Apple is interfering with my right to do what I want with hardware that I own.

    If you want to only load software from Apple's app store on YOUR iPhone, that's YOUR right.  Keep doing that, live with your head in the sand.  But stop trying to interfere with my rights.

    And Biden is a center-right conservative Democrat.  He's not a socialist, he's not a communist, he's not in the Green party, he's not a progressive.  All this is is dealing with corrupt and improper corporate behavior.  Take your wanna-be fascist GQP crap somewhere else.
    Sorry, mate. This one doesn't cut left/right. (Besides, were you to substitute some other topic for the particulars but leave the "MY" and "YOUR" talk intact, you'd have pretty standard right-wing talking points on any subject.)

    The issue here is where the point of consumer choice exists. Currently, it exists when the consumer chooses a device and operating system. If you choose Android and any one of the myriad devices that run it, you can do all the side-loading on YOUR device that you want. If you choose iOS and an iPhone, you can't, but you get an enhanced level privacy and security inherent in a controlled system that vets any third-party software that wants on the platform. Many of us who chose an iPhone did so in part because of the security inherent in that closed system.

    If you use government to force all platforms to adopt the looser, less secure paradigm, you are taking away my choice to purchase a device with integrated OS and hardware designed as a closed system to increase user security and privacy.

    Consider:

    If I want to buy some power tools, I could choose to go to a flea market or I can choose to go to a trusted retailer. I choose the retailer, because I have a level of confidence that they'll only be selling power tools of a certain minimum quality from known manufacturers, and also that I am trading with that retailer rather than with each individual manufacturer selling things in their store. Big manufacturers and small startups alike covet shelf space in this store, because being available there drives sales. They may chafe at the fact that the retailer gets a markup just for letting them in the store, but that's because they don't like to acknowledge that the retailer's reputation for quality and solid customer service is why sales numbers are so good.

    You can choose to go to a flea market, where there is a wider variety of power tools brands available, and you may find what you want at whatever price point you're looking for. What you don't get is any assurance that the tools are of any specific level of quality, or any consistent return policy, or even any assurance that your purchase isn't a counterfeit that could spin apart and cut your hand off in the process. You just have to trust in your own skills to suss out those issues ask you wheel and deal. If you're comfortable with that level of risk, that's great. You may find the best deal possible. 

    What's not great is if you want to use government to force the retailer I like to trade with to open up their floor space to any vendor who wants to come in and sell from their own booth. I may still want to buy through the retailer, but some big manufacturers might choose to bypass the retailer's point-of-sale system and only sell directly through their own booth. Maybe that'll save me money, or maybe that'll make it easier for the big manufacturer to impose a more restrictive return policy, or to require I register all my name and contact information with them before I can make a purchase. Maybe smaller manufacturers will save a few bucks by selling directly through their own booths and skipping the quality thresholds that the retailer requires to get "official" shelf space at their store. Sure, I can still try to only do business by purchasing items sold via the retailer, but my choices for that will be narrowed significantly. I'll have less opportunity to try new brands at a known, lowered risk level, and some of my favorite brands will now only be available if I'm willing to buy directly from them.

    That's how your demands that government force everyone to operate like the flea market you prefer takes choice away from everyone else who'd rather not go to flea markets and would prefer to trade with the trusted retailer.
    edited February 2023 killroyradarthekatFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 88
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    darkvader said:
    And right on time the ignorant fanbois and right wing nutjobs are spouting their nonsense again.

    The WORST thing about Apple is the closed ecosystem on the iDevices.  It needs to be fixed, and since it looks like it's going to take government action to force it open, government action is what needs to happen.

    It's MY iPhone, not Apple's iPhone.  I have a right to load ANY software of MY choosing on MY iPhone.  Apple is interfering with my right to do what I want with hardware that I own.

    If you want to only load software from Apple's app store on YOUR iPhone, that's YOUR right.  Keep doing that, live with your head in the sand.  But stop trying to interfere with my rights.

    And Biden is a center-right conservative Democrat.  He's not a socialist, he's not a communist, he's not in the Green party, he's not a progressive.  All this is is dealing with corrupt and improper corporate behavior.  Take your wanna-be fascist GQP crap somewhere else.
    And I also have right to choose to have a closed system. It’s my iPhone as well. By opening up my phone to the Chinese or Russian crap, it endangers my phone too, what part of that do you not understand ? Or do you work for the commies?

    maybe that is it…..


    edited February 2023 killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 88
    Stifled innovation … compared to what?
    killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 88
    darkvader said:
    It's MY iPhone, not Apple's iPhone.  I have a right to load ANY software of MY choosing on MY iPhone.  Apple is interfering with my right to do what I want with hardware that I own.


    No, you have the right to NOT to buy an iPhone and choose a competitor with an open system. That's called a free marketplace. You can spend $100,000 or more on a top end Tesla, but guess what? Elon is STILL not going to let you have Apple CarPlay and will force you to use his software. Don't like it? Don't buy a Tesla. There are endless examples like this--have you read one of those book-length EULAs lately for products you quaintly believe that you "own?" That oughta really set your hair on fire. 
    edited February 2023 killroyFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 88
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,275member
    ranson said:
    Hedware said:
    Somehow everybody gets asked except for consumers. As a owner of Apple products,  I do not want my privacy and security compromised because some lazy developers want to have open skies. They should attempt to build some decent apps. 
    I fail to understand how this compromises YOUR security. It's very simple. If YOU don't want to use a third party store or sideloading to have access to an app, then YOU don't have to. See, no security problem for YOU. But others, who want to put software on their phone that Apple has declined to list in their App Store, should have that opportunity, given it is their device that they own.  None of that compromises YOUR security in any way.

    I hear the argument that "well, there are apps that will move to their own stores instead of Apple's, and then we can't trust the app maker to not do nefarious things."  Fine, then don't install the app. If you can't trust their product because it's not in Apple's Store, then frankly, you can't trust the app at all and should not use it. Note that numerous scam apps are in the Apple Store already (see this AI article from just this morning), and popular apps like Tik Tok and Facebook actively track you in spite of the tracking transparency options. So again, if you think you wouldn't be able to trust them outside of the Apple store, those apps being in the Apple store is really no different. It's a completely false sense of security.

    So nobody's security is unwillingly compromised here. We are adults, and we can make informed decisions about what apps to install, even when it runs counter to Apple's opinion. This harms no one except those who choose to go down that road and make bad choices.
    Wrong. There are tens of millions of users; children, elderly or just plain technically illiterate who will click on ads or links in games/apps/ads and be led to malicious sites and will download malware that will steal money or data. You don't need a crystal ball to see the future here. I would argue that any app developer who doesn't want to go through the authorized app stores doesn't really have a business, at best, or is a criminal just waiting to prey on unsuspecting users, at worst.

    killroyroundaboutnowFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 88
    What right does the Government have to regulate what a private company charges?

    I can see compelling Apple to allow third party "Stores", but it should be completely up to the consumer as to whether they 

    want to utilize such third parties.  I believe Apple's model has served consumers well.  In exchange for the fees they have 

    kept all kinds of smut and damaging applications off the iOS platform.   
    Madbumkillroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 88
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,324member
    Fascinating.  Yet another case of AppleInsider doing the right thing and allowing comment liberty under an obviously political post.  While I am very pleased about this, it needs to become the Rule, not the Exception.  Freedom has risks, but it's worth it.  Patrick Henry certainly understood that.

    As to the article itself, I cannot help but muse at my fellow Americans constantly trying to bash and undercut their own homegrown business success stories, especially when many of those same people personally benefit from those business models and successes by way of stock appreciation and dividends.  Biting the hand that feeds you is clearly being done here with the fight against "big tech" — which interestingly has become "smaller tech" after significant losses in 2022!  But as is true of comments under political articles on AppleInsider, the same is true of American businesses.  A free market without the iron first of "for the greater good" meddling is the best approach, even when offenses come.

     If someone sells your data but you use the service anyway because it's free, even knowing your data isn't 100% secured and private, that's on you as a user, not up to Uncle Sam to regulate.  And if you as a developer don't want to pay Apple a large cut of your profits, just exist the Apple Store experience altogether, rather than try to get a political bully to strong-arm your wishes onto a private company.
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 88
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Rhythmage said:
    I don’t really give a Duck. Lol. Apple hasn’t been as good as it was since ios 6. Just sayin. 
    Oh, good grief, talk about living in the past.
    killroyroundaboutnowwatto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 88
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    Rhythmage said:
    I don’t really give a Duck. Lol. Apple hasn’t been as good as it was since ios 6. Just sayin. 
    Dude right? I feel same about my cassette deck boom box! This streaming crap sound terrible compared to my TDK cassette!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 88
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    What right does the Government have to regulate what a private company charges?

    I can see compelling Apple to allow third party "Stores", but it should be completely up to the consumer as to whether they 

    want to utilize such third parties.  I believe Apple's model has served consumers well.  In exchange for the fees they have 

    kept all kinds of smut and damaging applications off the iOS platform.   
    Of course you are right! But there are obviously big government communists in our midst…
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 88
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    charlesn said:
    darkvader said:
    It's MY iPhone, not Apple's iPhone.  I have a right to load ANY software of MY choosing on MY iPhone.  Apple is interfering with my right to do what I want with hardware that I own.


    No, you have the right to NOT to buy an iPhone and choose a competitor with an open system. That's called a free marketplace. You can spend $100,000 or more on a top end Tesla, but guess what? Elon is STILL not going to let you have Apple CarPlay and will force you to use his software. Don't like it? Don't buy a Tesla. There are endless examples like this--have you read one of those book-length EULAs lately for products you quaintly believe that you "own?" That oughta really set your hair on fire. 
    Awesome post man! Exactly! Idiot spends a few bucks for a phone and thinks he owns the world and wants everybody else to be put at risk with crazy ass side loads

    ”don’t side load if you don’t want the risk”

    my god, how many Einstein a do we have here? Shit for brains much? The fact the phone allows side loading opens up the phone to vulnerabilities or exploits which can be taken advantage of!

    I cannot believe I just had to explain that…
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 88
    ranson said:
    Hedware said:
    Somehow everybody gets asked except for consumers. As a owner of Apple products,  I do not want my privacy and security compromised because some lazy developers want to have open skies. They should attempt to build some decent apps. 
    I fail to understand how this compromises YOUR security. It's very simple. If YOU don't want to use a third party store or sideloading to have access to an app, then YOU don't have to. See, no security problem for YOU. But others, who want to put software on their phone that Apple has declined to list in their App Store, should have that opportunity, given it is their device that they own.  None of that compromises YOUR security in any way.

    I hear the argument that "well, there are apps that will move to their own stores instead of Apple's, and then we can't trust the app maker to not do nefarious things."  Fine, then don't install the app. If you can't trust their product because it's not in Apple's Store, then frankly, you can't trust the app at all and should not use it. Note that numerous scam apps are in the Apple Store already (see this AI article from just this morning), and popular apps like Tik Tok and Facebook actively track you in spite of the tracking transparency options. So again, if you think you wouldn't be able to trust them outside of the Apple store, those apps being in the Apple store is really no different. It's a completely false sense of security.

    So nobody's security is unwillingly compromised here. We are adults, and we can make informed decisions about what apps to install, even when it runs counter to Apple's opinion. This harms no one except those who choose to go down that road and make bad choices.
    It compromises everyone's security because if Apple has to modify iOS to allow side-loaded apps it makes it much, much easier, for criminals, the government, unscrupulous developers to maliciously load malware and spyware onto your phone. Period.

    But remember how much cheaper software used to be before the App Store? Oh, wait, that's right, software got orders of magnitude cheaper after the launch of the App Store. 


    Exactly.
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 88
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,069member
    Sounds like it has more to do with the Nose-to-ass  Musk, Bezos crowd whose interest is solely in this not only being the old west, but ensuring it stays that way. These are the guys who hate regulation, do illegal shit all the time, and don’t care about what they have to do to stay there. 
    steve_jobsFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 58 of 88
    williamhwilliamh Posts: 1,032member
    Government motto: if it ain’t broken we will fix it until it is. 
    Madbumwatto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 88
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    williamh said:
    Government motto: if it ain’t broken we will fix it until it is. 
    Disgusting isn’t it 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 88
    The White House and Dork Biden pretty much has blacklisted and have attempted to cancel and hurt just about every business from A to Z since he took office. “Shut up jack and pay $8 like everyone else”! Lol App Store fees … Phhss
    edited February 2023 watto_cobra
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