Apple continues to evolve the hinge it may use on a folding iPhone

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware
A newly-revealed patent application shows Apple has evolved its previous hinge designs, and is now describing foldable iPhone displays with far more intricate gearing.

A potential iPhone fold using a hinged display mechanism
A potential iPhone fold using a hinged display mechanism


When a folding iPhone, iPad, or even MacBook Pro is eventually launched, its fold hinge is likely to look typically smooth and simple. On the inside, however, it now looks as if Apple is at least favoring a design with an interlocking mesh of gearing.

Previous design drawings have shown at most three to four small cogs revolving around a single larger one. The new patent application, entitled "Hinges for Folding Display Devices," includes designs with four pairs of seemingly small cogs, worked into a complex assembly of six static parts.

The latest design appears more complex than previous ones
The latest design appears more complex than previous ones


"A foldable display device may have housing portions coupled by a hinge," says Apple. "The hinge may have a series of interconnected links... the links may be formed from interdigi-tated fingers in a friction clutch."

Alongside gears or cogs that allow for movement, Apple also describe pins that keep the apparatus travelling along set directions.

"The fingers or other portions of the links may be provided with crescent-shaped slots that receive pins," continues the patent. "During folding of the device, the pins may slide along the crescent-shaped slots, thereby ensuring that adjacent links rotate relative to each other about a rotation axis that lies outside of the hinge and within a flexible display panel."

One design shows multiple interlocking gear cogs
One design shows multiple interlocking gear cogs


A separate sketch shows a row of four directly interlocking cogs, while others look to describe gears within different rigid elements.

"Links may also be formed from link members with curved mating bearing surfaces that slide relative to each other as adjacent links are rotated relative to each other," says Apple. "A housing rotation synchronization mechanism may be formed using a set of gears that extends between the first and second housing portions."

All of this suggests that Apple is moving away from one or more large hinge mechanisms, to a system that leverages many smaller gears. The newly-revealed patent application appears to be more complex and involved than earlier ones.

It's possible that Apple may be pursuing more than one design for hinges, though. Previous patents and patent applications have appeared to clearly be for iPhones or iPads, but this one specifically describes a wider range of devices, going from large to small.

"[The device] may be a cellular telephone, tablet computer, laptop computer, wristwatch device or other wearable device, a television, a stand-alone computer display or other monitor, a computer display with an embedded computer (e.g., a desktop computer)," it says, "[or] a system embedded in a vehicle, kiosk, or other embedded electronic device, a media player, or other electronic equipment."

Patents are always written to encompass as wide a range of possible applications of their technology, however. Also, while the new design appears to be a development of the previous ones, it could also be that Apple is still researching both.

The patent application is credited to 10 inventors, including Bradley J Hamel, whose previous work includes a granted patent about friction hinges. There's also Kevin M. Robinson, previously listed on a patent application regarding a hinge mechanism, probably for the MacBook Pro.

Apple has long been reported to be working on an iPhone fold. More recently, however, there have been claims that it will instead concentrate on folding iPads and the MacBook Pro.

Read on AppleInsider
«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27
    XedXed Posts: 1,748member
    If anyone can perfect this it's Apple. Their notebook hinges have been excellent since at least the early MacBook (Pro) notebooks. One finger control and it just stays where it was put. I can't recall ever having an issue with those hinges.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 27
    I have to compliment Apple on committing the resources that go into patents like this for the sole purpose of convincing Samsung to throw yet more millions down the rat hole of folding smartphones, a segment that will never be profitable.
    Dooofuswatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 27
    sunman42 said:
    I have to compliment Apple on committing the resources that go into patents like this for the sole purpose of convincing Samsung to throw yet more millions down the rat hole of folding smartphones, a segment that will never be profitable.
    A rather short-sighted view, imho. Foldable phones have already become good-enough for mainstream adoption from a durability perspective. Only price is a showstopper as of now. As time passes, the prices would come down as well. Just wait for 2 more years - foldables will become mainstream.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 4 of 27
    XedXed Posts: 1,748member
    sunman42 said:
    I have to compliment Apple on committing the resources that go into patents like this for the sole purpose of convincing Samsung to throw yet more millions down the rat hole of folding smartphones, a segment that will never be profitable.
    A rather short-sighted view, imho. Foldable phones have already become good-enough for mainstream adoption from a durability perspective. Only price is a showstopper as of now. As time passes, the prices would come down as well. Just wait for 2 more years - foldables will become mainstream.
    I feel like "two more years", which is the same as saying "it's almost here", has been said for many years now. it's like waiting for jet packs to be commonplace like in 1950s Popular Science magazines. It's Godot Futurism at its finest.

    Can you detail the scenario in which you would get a folding phone? I can't see a personal need for one and I don't think most people will want that. What I can envision is a use of the same, bendable OLED display tech that's that allow for a large variety of contoured surfaces, like the dashboard of a automobile, and eventually a scrolling display so one can have a large display when needed but have it to out of the way when not needed. I think they used something like that in the movie Mission to Mars.

    And I disagree about durability. The displays can't too close together or they risk breaking the OLED display if something minute is caught between them when closing, and as far as I know they can't use any of Corning's  alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass-based Gorilla Glass products which means it's back to the soft plastics that were everywhere pre-iPhone, which makes it easier to damage the OLED substrate.
    edited February 16 watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 27
    omasouomasou Posts: 455member
    sunman42 said:
    I have to compliment Apple on committing the resources that go into patents like this for the sole purpose of convincing Samsung to throw yet more millions down the rat hole of folding smartphones, a segment that will never be profitable.
    A rather short-sighted view, imho. Foldable phones have already become good-enough for mainstream adoption from a durability perspective. Only price is a showstopper as of now. As time passes, the prices would come down as well. Just wait for 2 more years - foldables will become mainstream.

    Why?
    williamlondonDooofuswatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 27
    omasou said:
    sunman42 said:
    I have to compliment Apple on committing the resources that go into patents like this for the sole purpose of convincing Samsung to throw yet more millions down the rat hole of folding smartphones, a segment that will never be profitable.
    A rather short-sighted view, imho. Foldable phones have already become good-enough for mainstream adoption from a durability perspective. Only price is a showstopper as of now. As time passes, the prices would come down as well. Just wait for 2 more years - foldables will become mainstream.

    Why?
    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    edited February 16 williamlondon
  • Reply 7 of 27
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,805member
    omasou said:
    sunman42 said:
    I have to compliment Apple on committing the resources that go into patents like this for the sole purpose of convincing Samsung to throw yet more millions down the rat hole of folding smartphones, a segment that will never be profitable.
    A rather short-sighted view, imho. Foldable phones have already become good-enough for mainstream adoption from a durability perspective. Only price is a showstopper as of now. As time passes, the prices would come down as well. Just wait for 2 more years - foldables will become mainstream.

    Why?
    Because prices are coming down, more models are coming online and selling in greater numbers. 

    You can already buy a foldable phone in virtually all the major smartphone markets.

    My brother's entire family switched to folding phones last year. My other brother got a Samsung Fold too. 

    No problems on any level and they all love the phones. 

    It is rumored that Huawei will release its latest model this month at (or around) MWC and some rumors say it is thinner when folded than a current iPhone. The previous generation was as thin as an iPhone in a case.

    The move to mainstream is underway IMO. Two years could be a reasonable stab and if rumours play out, Apple may have its own foldable by then. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 8 of 27
    Xed said:
    sunman42 said:
    I have to compliment Apple on committing the resources that go into patents like this for the sole purpose of convincing Samsung to throw yet more millions down the rat hole of folding smartphones, a segment that will never be profitable.
    A rather short-sighted view, imho. Foldable phones have already become good-enough for mainstream adoption from a durability perspective. Only price is a showstopper as of now. As time passes, the prices would come down as well. Just wait for 2 more years - foldables will become mainstream.
    I feel like "two more years", which is the same as saying "it's almost here", has been said for many years now. it's like waiting for jet packs to be commonplace like in 1950s Popular Science magazines. It's Godot Futurism at its finest.

    Can you detail the scenario in which you would get a folding phone? I can't see a personal need for one and I don't think most people will want that. What I can envision is a use of the same, bendable OLED display tech that's that allow for a large variety of contoured surfaces, like the dashboard of a automobile, and eventually a scrolling display so one can have a large display when needed but have it to out of the way when not needed. I think they used something like that in the movie Mission to Mars.

    And I disagree about durability. The displays can't too close together or they risk breaking the OLED display if something minute is caught between them when closing, and as far as I know they can't use any of Corning's  alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass-based Gorilla Glass products which means it's back to the soft plastics that were everywhere pre-iPhone, which makes it easier to damage the OLED substrate.
    If you closely follow the foldable form factor Android phones, you would understand that the technology has come a long long way, compared to even 4 years ago. In 2017, if anyone had said that - there would be 10+ foldable form factor phones launched in 2022 as prediction, they would have been laughed at and ridiculed beyond limits. Yet, here we are, with more and more foldable form factor phones being launched by various OEMs (Samsung, BBK subsidiaries, Xiaomi, Huawei and Motorola). Prices are also coming down. So significant progress has been made in the last 4 years in reality which cannot be ignored.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 9 of 27
    XedXed Posts: 1,748member
    Xed said:
    sunman42 said:
    I have to compliment Apple on committing the resources that go into patents like this for the sole purpose of convincing Samsung to throw yet more millions down the rat hole of folding smartphones, a segment that will never be profitable.
    A rather short-sighted view, imho. Foldable phones have already become good-enough for mainstream adoption from a durability perspective. Only price is a showstopper as of now. As time passes, the prices would come down as well. Just wait for 2 more years - foldables will become mainstream.
    I feel like "two more years", which is the same as saying "it's almost here", has been said for many years now. it's like waiting for jet packs to be commonplace like in 1950s Popular Science magazines. It's Godot Futurism at its finest.

    Can you detail the scenario in which you would get a folding phone? I can't see a personal need for one and I don't think most people will want that. What I can envision is a use of the same, bendable OLED display tech that's that allow for a large variety of contoured surfaces, like the dashboard of a automobile, and eventually a scrolling display so one can have a large display when needed but have it to out of the way when not needed. I think they used something like that in the movie Mission to Mars.

    And I disagree about durability. The displays can't too close together or they risk breaking the OLED display if something minute is caught between them when closing, and as far as I know they can't use any of Corning's alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass-based Gorilla Glass products which means it's back to the soft plastics that were everywhere pre-iPhone, which makes it easier to damage the OLED substrate.
    If you closely follow the foldable form factor Android phones, you would understand that the technology has come a long long way, compared to even 4 years ago. In 2017, if anyone had said that - there would be 10+ foldable form factor phones launched in 2022 as prediction, they would have been laughed at and ridiculed beyond limits. Yet, here we are, with more and more foldable form factor phones being launched by various OEMs (Samsung, BBK subsidiaries, Xiaomi, Huawei and Motorola). Prices are also coming down. So significant progress has been made in the last 4 years in reality which cannot be ignored.
    Progress occurring does not equate to them being perfect, mainstream (read: ubiquitous), comparably durable as devices with alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass, or a great solution for people who are just bidding their time with non-foldable phones until the price comes down.

    There will have to be a paradigm shift in how we use smartphones to warrant their use. Will a double thickness smartphone that can be a double-sized smartphone display as-needed but still a very small tablet become the norm? I don't see it, but, again, I'd like to hear the scenario in which that will occur. Convince me.
    edited February 16 rotateleftbyte13485williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 27
    omasouomasou Posts: 455member
    omasou said:
    sunman42 said:
    I have to compliment Apple on committing the resources that go into patents like this for the sole purpose of convincing Samsung to throw yet more millions down the rat hole of folding smartphones, a segment that will never be profitable.
    A rather short-sighted view, imho. Foldable phones have already become good-enough for mainstream adoption from a durability perspective. Only price is a showstopper as of now. As time passes, the prices would come down as well. Just wait for 2 more years - foldables will become mainstream.

    Why?
    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    What does any of that have to do w/the utility of a foldable device. So your argument is b/c you need a large display and b/c Samsung did it? Who said the display would get larger? Most likely it would be the same size but fold "in half" like old flip phones. A larger iPhone is less usable, especially single handed. I shouldn't need two hands to use my phone. Phones have not breached 7" diagonal b/c we have iPad minis and no one wants to hold an iPad mini size device next to their face. Lastly, anything larger is going to be heavy as s**t. I'm waiting for the CPU to become so efficient that Apple can afford to decrease the thickness of the battery and thereby the weight. Have you carried a new MacBook Pro? It's a damn boat anchor, I don't need that extra hour, I need it light weight.

    A Motorola Razor was foldable, small and light.

    Unlike a Razor there will be a battery on both halves which won't last as long b/c they will be smaller to make room for the folding mechanism.

    Once Apple released the retina displays and increased the size of the iPhone 4 to the current size. I was able to drop down to the normal iPhone b/c I could finally read the display w/o cheaters. Same for the Apple Watch Ultra, it's the perfect size plus it's light and the battery lasts for days but perhaps they should make it fold open. LOL.

    This is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist and referencing Samsung does not strengthen anyone's argument.
    edited February 16 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 27
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,805member
    Xed said:
    If anyone can perfect this it's Apple. Their notebook hinges have been excellent since at least the early MacBook (Pro) notebooks. One finger control and it just stays where it was put. I can't recall ever having an issue with those hinges.
    Apple’s laptop hinges have been excellent in general with a couple of notable exceptions. 

    Premium laptops have had equally good hinges for years now too. 

    Folding phone hinges have been excellent too and performed perfectly. 

    There are a few different designs which have different goals but progress has been amazing with Honor recently getting moving parts down to four but the overall complexity is clear from the teardowns. They are supremely well engineered and make good use of premium materials.

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 12 of 27
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,929member
    Xed said:
    sunman42 said:
    I have to compliment Apple on committing the resources that go into patents like this for the sole purpose of convincing Samsung to throw yet more millions down the rat hole of folding smartphones, a segment that will never be profitable.
    A rather short-sighted view, imho. Foldable phones have already become good-enough for mainstream adoption from a durability perspective. Only price is a showstopper as of now. As time passes, the prices would come down as well. Just wait for 2 more years - foldables will become mainstream.
    I feel like "two more years", which is the same as saying "it's almost here", has been said for many years now. it's like waiting for jet packs to be commonplace like in 1950s Popular Science magazines. It's Godot Futurism at its finest.

    Can you detail the scenario in which you would get a folding phone? I can't see a personal need for one and I don't think most people will want that. What I can envision is a use of the same, bendable OLED display tech that's that allow for a large variety of contoured surfaces, like the dashboard of a automobile, and eventually a scrolling display so one can have a large display when needed but have it to out of the way when not needed. I think they used something like that in the movie Mission to Mars.

    And I disagree about durability. The displays can't too close together or they risk breaking the OLED display if something minute is caught between them when closing, and as far as I know they can't use any of Corning's  alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass-based Gorilla Glass products which means it's back to the soft plastics that were everywhere pre-iPhone, which makes it easier to damage the OLED substrate.
    If you closely follow the foldable form factor Android phones, you would understand that the technology has come a long long way, compared to even 4 years ago. In 2017, if anyone had said that - there would be 10+ foldable form factor phones launched in 2022 as prediction, they would have been laughed at and ridiculed beyond limits. Yet, here we are, with more and more foldable form factor phones being launched by various OEMs (Samsung, BBK subsidiaries, Xiaomi, Huawei and Motorola). Prices are also coming down. So significant progress has been made in the last 4 years in reality which cannot be ignored.
    https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=US49667922

    "With almost 70% YoY growth for foldables expected in 2022, the biggest question today is will foldables become mainstream anytime soon. Unfortunately, the answer is no," said Nabila Popal, research director with IDC's Worldwide Quarterly Mobile Phone Tracker. "To me, mainstream means volume, and volume is dominated by cheaper sub-$400 phones. While it may be tempting for vendors to scoop in with lower ASPs to generate an initial boost in sales, I strongly believe that is not a good move — especially not at the expense of quality and user experience. Foldables should remain a niche and premium flagship device. Instead, vendors should focus on improving user experience and building to increase confidence in the category and generate long-term growth. I believe foldables are the future of premium Android devices even if as a whole they are only expected to capture less than 3% of global volume by the end of our forecast period."
    Not mainstream, and sales in 2022 were only 13.5 M units, a big jump form 2021 at 8.1M, but a rounding error in the scheme of things. I doubt that Apple users would trade their current iPhones for a decidedly less durable form factor, and I doubt that Android users will either, but obviously some have and more will.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 27

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 27
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,805member
    tmay said:
    Xed said:
    sunman42 said:
    I have to compliment Apple on committing the resources that go into patents like this for the sole purpose of convincing Samsung to throw yet more millions down the rat hole of folding smartphones, a segment that will never be profitable.
    A rather short-sighted view, imho. Foldable phones have already become good-enough for mainstream adoption from a durability perspective. Only price is a showstopper as of now. As time passes, the prices would come down as well. Just wait for 2 more years - foldables will become mainstream.
    I feel like "two more years", which is the same as saying "it's almost here", has been said for many years now. it's like waiting for jet packs to be commonplace like in 1950s Popular Science magazines. It's Godot Futurism at its finest.

    Can you detail the scenario in which you would get a folding phone? I can't see a personal need for one and I don't think most people will want that. What I can envision is a use of the same, bendable OLED display tech that's that allow for a large variety of contoured surfaces, like the dashboard of a automobile, and eventually a scrolling display so one can have a large display when needed but have it to out of the way when not needed. I think they used something like that in the movie Mission to Mars.

    And I disagree about durability. The displays can't too close together or they risk breaking the OLED display if something minute is caught between them when closing, and as far as I know they can't use any of Corning's  alkali-aluminosilicate sheet glass-based Gorilla Glass products which means it's back to the soft plastics that were everywhere pre-iPhone, which makes it easier to damage the OLED substrate.
    If you closely follow the foldable form factor Android phones, you would understand that the technology has come a long long way, compared to even 4 years ago. In 2017, if anyone had said that - there would be 10+ foldable form factor phones launched in 2022 as prediction, they would have been laughed at and ridiculed beyond limits. Yet, here we are, with more and more foldable form factor phones being launched by various OEMs (Samsung, BBK subsidiaries, Xiaomi, Huawei and Motorola). Prices are also coming down. So significant progress has been made in the last 4 years in reality which cannot be ignored.
    https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=US49667922

    "With almost 70% YoY growth for foldables expected in 2022, the biggest question today is will foldables become mainstream anytime soon. Unfortunately, the answer is no," said Nabila Popal, research director with IDC's Worldwide Quarterly Mobile Phone Tracker. "To me, mainstream means volume, and volume is dominated by cheaper sub-$400 phones. While it may be tempting for vendors to scoop in with lower ASPs to generate an initial boost in sales, I strongly believe that is not a good move — especially not at the expense of quality and user experience. Foldables should remain a niche and premium flagship device. Instead, vendors should focus on improving user experience and building to increase confidence in the category and generate long-term growth. I believe foldables are the future of premium Android devices even if as a whole they are only expected to capture less than 3% of global volume by the end of our forecast period."
    Not mainstream, and sales in 2022 were only 13.5 M units, a big jump form 2021 at 8.1M, but a rounding error in the scheme of things. I doubt that Apple users would trade their current iPhones for a decidedly less durable form factor, and I doubt that Android users will either, but obviously some have and more will.

    He had to clarify mainstream with 'to me'. 

    He did that for good reason. There are different angles to mainstream. Just being available in most major markets and freely available as a purchase option can mean mainstream too. 

    Expect big jumps in unit sales as prices edge downwards.

    Folding phones, especially 'flip' phones are now below $1,000 in China.

    Most folding phones were only released at scale in China with Samsung and Huawei being practically the only manufacturers rolling out models worldwide.

    That changed late last year and now more folding phones are available worldwide with Honor and OPPO putting out class leading devices and at aggressive price points.

    In two years, if rumors prove true, Apple could be in the folding fold. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 15 of 27
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,805member

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    edited February 17 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 16 of 27
    avon b7 said:

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    If you want a toaster refrigerator, that’s fine.  I’d prefer to keep them separate.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 27
    avon b7 said:

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task.  Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task.  I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 27
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,805member
    avon b7 said:

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task.  Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task.  I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
    The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens. 

    We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.

    Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.

    I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.

    A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 19 of 27
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task.  Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task.  I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
    The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens. 

    We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.

    Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.

    I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.

    A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear. 
    Backpack?

     But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop.  But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video?  Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store?  I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case.  Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.

    I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff.  If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
  • Reply 20 of 27
    XedXed Posts: 1,748member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task.  Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task.  I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
    The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens. 

    We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.

    Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.

    I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.

    A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear. 
    Backpack?

     But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop.  But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video?  Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store?  I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case.  Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.

    I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff.  If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
    So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
Sign In or Register to comment.