Apple continues to evolve the hinge it may use on a folding iPhone

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 27
    Xed said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task.  Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task.  I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
    The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens. 

    We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.

    Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.

    I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.

    A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear. 
    Backpack?

     But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop.  But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video?  Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store?  I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case.  Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.

    I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff.  If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
    So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
    But youre not taking it in to use it.  That wasn’t the point.  The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
  • Reply 22 of 27
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,913member
    Xed said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task.  Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task.  I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
    The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens. 

    We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.

    Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.

    I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.

    A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear. 
    Backpack?

     But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop.  But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video?  Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store?  I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case.  Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.

    I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff.  If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
    So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
    But youre not taking it in to use it.  That wasn’t the point.  The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
    Different tasks for different devices for better usability. When you move to one traditional device, you end up making usability sacrifices. 

    You don't need a tablet if you are mobile and mostly make voice calls or use instant messaging. 

    If you are mobile and do things that are suited to a bigger screen, you can carry two devices, leading to far more bulk and weight. 

    Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk. 

    As a plus, you could even get the use of the main camera for selfies. 
  • Reply 23 of 27
    XedXed Posts: 2,714member
    avon b7 said:
    Xed said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task.  Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task.  I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
    The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens. 

    We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.

    Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.

    I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.

    A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear. 
    Backpack?

     But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop.  But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video?  Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store?  I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case.  Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.

    I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff.  If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
    So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
    But youre not taking it in to use it.  That wasn’t the point.  The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
    Different tasks for different devices for better usability. When you move to one traditional device, you end up making usability sacrifices. 

    You don't need a tablet if you are mobile and mostly make voice calls or use instant messaging. 

    If you are mobile and do things that are suited to a bigger screen, you can carry two devices, leading to far more bulk and weight. 

    Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk

    As a plus, you could even get the use of the main camera for selfies. 
    Well that's straight up BS, but I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

    For example, the iPhone 14 is 7.80mm thick while the Samsung Galaxy Fold 4 is 15.80mm thick. A little over doublet thickness as a smartphone despite you claiming "without the bulk".

    Additionally, in tablet mode you get a mediocre tablet that's not really much bigger to warrant either the expense or having to use a considerably more bulky smartphone when the the iPhone mini size is the least popular size. The 10–11" range is the most popular with the 12–13" range following, with the iPad mini bring up the rear.

    Even if the iPad mini was the most popular size, a double-size iPhone display wouldn't come close to the screen area. It's would all be a shitty iPhone and shitty iPad experience, just as all of these folding devices have been to date.

    Here's one recent survey...

  • Reply 24 of 27
    Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk. 
    That’s just it though: I don’t see any advantage.  I see only poor compromises.  I see another mechanical failure point (wear and tear, damage point when dropped, ingress point). I see a thicker phone in my pocket or in my hand.  I see a device that requires 2 hands when fully open. All for the “convenience” of “just in case I need a bigger screen”.

     Sometimes, KISS is the right thing to do, no matter how much it’s wanted. If I think I need a bigger screen, I plan and think ahead: do I need to tote my laptop with me in a backpack, or can it wait till I get home. Is it worth the inconvenience of carrying around a bag, or can I make do on the small screen of my phone?

     At no point have I wished for a bigger screen on my phone.
    tmay
  • Reply 25 of 27
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,913member
    Xed said:
    avon b7 said:
    Xed said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task.  Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task.  I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
    The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens. 

    We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.

    Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.

    I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.

    A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear. 
    Backpack?

     But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop.  But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video?  Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store?  I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case.  Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.

    I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff.  If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
    So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
    But youre not taking it in to use it.  That wasn’t the point.  The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
    Different tasks for different devices for better usability. When you move to one traditional device, you end up making usability sacrifices. 

    You don't need a tablet if you are mobile and mostly make voice calls or use instant messaging. 

    If you are mobile and do things that are suited to a bigger screen, you can carry two devices, leading to far more bulk and weight. 

    Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk

    As a plus, you could even get the use of the main camera for selfies. 
    Well that's straight up BS, but I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

    For example, the iPhone 14 is 7.80mm thick while the Samsung Galaxy Fold 4 is 15.80mm thick. A little over doublet thickness as a smartphone despite you claiming "without the bulk".

    Additionally, in tablet mode you get a mediocre tablet that's not really much bigger to warrant either the expense or having to use a considerably more bulky smartphone when the the iPhone mini size is the least popular size. The 10–11" range is the most popular with the 12–13" range following, with the iPad mini bring up the rear.

    Even if the iPad mini was the most popular size, a double-size iPhone display wouldn't come close to the screen area. It's would all be a shitty iPhone and shitty iPad experience, just as all of these folding devices have been to date.

    Here's one recent survey...

    You obviously haven't been following folding phones. 

    Some points. 

    Even at 15mm a folding phone beats the bulk of having both a phone and a tablet to carry around. 

    You probably cherry picked your example as the Samsung is just one of many. 

    The last Huawei was basically the same thickness as an iPhone in a case. Once 8n tablet mode it's thinner.

    Last August, Xiaomi released what was then the world's thinnest folding phone. 

    Lots of reviewers say they would keep their review units if they could. Some buy them for themselves anyway. 

    If the experience was so shitty, do you think that that kind of user would buy them? 

    The experience is better because it is bigger. The whole point of a folding phone isn't that 'it folds'. The point is that you get a tablet mode that, without a tablet on hand along with your regular phone, is impossible. 

    It is better for the reasons I've already given and if Apple releases a folding phone they will be marketing exactly that. 

    Fragility? Have you see any 'fold gate' stories? Any mass breaking? 

    Forget folding phones for a second, what is the number one break point on a regular phone? The glass, right? Front and back. And no moving parts! 

    Yes, the hinge has moving parts. Get over it. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 26 of 27
    XedXed Posts: 2,714member
    avon b7 said:
    Xed said:
    avon b7 said:
    Xed said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task.  Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task.  I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
    The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens. 

    We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.

    Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.

    I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.

    A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear. 
    Backpack?

     But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop.  But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video?  Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store?  I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case.  Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.

    I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff.  If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
    So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
    But youre not taking it in to use it.  That wasn’t the point.  The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
    Different tasks for different devices for better usability. When you move to one traditional device, you end up making usability sacrifices. 

    You don't need a tablet if you are mobile and mostly make voice calls or use instant messaging. 

    If you are mobile and do things that are suited to a bigger screen, you can carry two devices, leading to far more bulk and weight. 

    Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk

    As a plus, you could even get the use of the main camera for selfies. 
    Well that's straight up BS, but I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

    For example, the iPhone 14 is 7.80mm thick while the Samsung Galaxy Fold 4 is 15.80mm thick. A little over doublet thickness as a smartphone despite you claiming "without the bulk".

    Additionally, in tablet mode you get a mediocre tablet that's not really much bigger to warrant either the expense or having to use a considerably more bulky smartphone when the the iPhone mini size is the least popular size. The 10–11" range is the most popular with the 12–13" range following, with the iPad mini bring up the rear.

    Even if the iPad mini was the most popular size, a double-size iPhone display wouldn't come close to the screen area. It's would all be a shitty iPhone and shitty iPad experience, just as all of these folding devices have been to date.

    Here's one recent survey...

    You obviously haven't been following folding phones. 

    Some points. 

    Even at 15mm a folding phone beats the bulk of having both a phone and a tablet to carry around. 

    You probably cherry picked your example as the Samsung is just one of many. 

    The last Huawei was basically the same thickness as an iPhone in a case. Once 8n tablet mode it's thinner.

    Last August, Xiaomi released what was then the world's thinnest folding phone. 

    Lots of reviewers say they would keep their review units if they could. Some buy them for themselves anyway. 

    If the experience was so shitty, do you think that that kind of user would buy them? 

    The experience is better because it is bigger. The whole point of a folding phone isn't that 'it folds'. The point is that you get a tablet mode that, without a tablet on hand along with your regular phone, is impossible. 

    It is better for the reasons I've already given and if Apple releases a folding phone they will be marketing exactly that. 

    Fragility? Have you see any 'fold gate' stories? Any mass breaking? 

    Forget folding phones for a second, what is the number one break point on a regular phone? The glass, right? Front and back. And no moving parts! 

    Yes, the hinge has moving parts. Get over it. 
    As usual, that's a lot of non sequitors and other argumentative fallacies, but I'll address one non sequitor you bring up as some glowing reason why a folding smartphone that becomes an extra small tablet are brilliant: the lack of "fold gate" in the media. Your implication is that the technology is excellent when in fact you can't begin to have significant device issues paired with mass outrage over a tech failure until that technology actually affect people en masse which is not going to happen with such weak sales.
    edited February 2023 tmay
  • Reply 27 of 27
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,913member
    Xed said:
    avon b7 said:
    Xed said:
    avon b7 said:
    Xed said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    Because - Larger is better, when it comes to display. It is that simple. Larger the viewable/usable display area in a smartphone/phablet/tablet - better it's usability in variety of scenarios. Which is why smartphone display sizes have grown, grown and grown in the last 10 years. Samsung was the first to figure this out and others (including Apple) followed suit. But with the non-folded form factor, it cannot grow beyond a point - pocketability becomes an issue, which is why phone display sizes have not breached 7" diagonal.

    But the appetite for larger display is not going to go away anytime soon. So the next logical step in evolution of smartphones is - foldable form factor. It is not rocket science as Apple hardcore fans in this forum make it out to be. Just because Apple has not launched a foldable phone yet - does NOT mean that it is not useful or practical. It is only a matter of time that Apple will launch a foldable phone (once they are ready).
    In your opinion. On phones, I prefer a smaller display as I like to use it one handed.  The larger the display, the harder that becomes.  If I want a larger display, I’ll switch to a different device, such as a laptop, which for the  given task, the different form factor has other things that make the task easier.  I also think the law of diminishing returns applies here.  I think there is an upper limit on how large a screen can be on a phone while still being useful.  At some point, you just gotta say, “you know, this would be so much easier on a bigger device, with a full keyboard, with software tailored to the device and task”.

    you keep harping on “bigger screen” is better, but why? Is not an iPhone pro max big enough? What use case requires a larger screen that could not be done by switching to an iPad or laptop or desktop?  The one use case I can think of is maybe accessibility for visually impaired, but is the max big enough for that?

    I mean sure, if they could fit a bigger screen in an iPhone mini without increasing its length, width, or height in any configuration, I may consider it (eg, holographic projection, or via AR/VR/MR headset), but it would still have to be usable from one hand in my opinion.
    The whole point of a folding phone is to have two devices in one and not need to lug separate devices around. 

    Depending on your hand size one handed use is perfectly doable on the folded phone. 

    As for bigger is better, that is always the case for when size is a befitting factor. There is an upper limit of course when size detracts from being useful but viewing content on a larger screen and modifying content on a larger screen both increase usability. 

    Even for silly things like moving the playhead around on video players. Larger screens allow for more interface elements to be viewed at one time. Opening multiple apps (one on top of the other or side by side) is much better. 

    My wife and anybody with poor eyesight will benefit from a larger screen even if it is basically a regular screen ratio with enlarged interface elements. 

    My wife has everything set pretty largish (but not to the max) on her iPhone and it's ugly to see how the system whacks the interface out of sync and usability actually goes down. 

    Honor Vs

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-magic-vs
    On the note of using sliders for fine grained control and having a bigger screen being beneficial, my point still stands: if you need a bigger screen, maybe you also need to consider using a device better suited to the task.  Bigger screen, mouse, keyboard, and the software to support the task.  I’ve tried to edit video on a phone; it can be done and the result isn’t perfect (and sometimes that’s fine). A bigger screen MAY help (at the compromise of other features), but if I need a bigger screen, I find that having a physical keyboard and mouse are also beneficial to the task I’m trying to accomplish than trying to use a finger.
    The issue is a phone is not the best device for virtually anything beyond the most basic of tasks. Screen sizes are rarely great for any given task and usability is reduced when compared with larger screens. 

    We use phones because they are always with us, relatively light and compact and available at all price points.

    Given that situation and the necessary compromises, a folding phone opens up more usability benefits by simply doubling the screen size while remaining sufficiently compact when folded.

    I can open and view apps onscreen on my phone (in split screen or floating mode). It works very well and I use it all the time. It's usable but a bigger screen would make the experience much, much better.

    A 15 inch laptop would be even better but I would lose all the portability advantages of a phone and depend on earbuds. I can't hold a laptop to my ear. 
    Backpack?

     But also, do you need to tote a laptop everywhere? Maybe your office is a coffee shop.  But going to the grocery store, do you need to take a laptop with you to edit a video?  Are you going to edit a video on your phone while at the store?  I’d say maybe, if your job depended on it. But I’d argue 99 times out of a 100, that’s an exceptional case.  Tote your laptop with you in whatever bag makes most sense to you if you’re going to need it, otherwise leave it behind.

    I guess I use my phone primarily for simple stuff.  If I need to do something more complex than to communicate via phone call, message, or FaceTime, check news, watch a video or look at pictures, quickly buy something, or check a notification, I switch to a different device, and in my head I also context switch as well.
    So I'm done working for the day and I hit the grocery store on my way home where I both work at an office and remotely on the same machine. Do I just leave my backpack on my motorcycle or in my car for someone to snatch and grab? I'd rather it be on my person even if you believe the only reason one would carry a $4k notebook on them into a grocery store is to "edit a video".
    But youre not taking it in to use it.  That wasn’t the point.  The point is, you’re not taking the laptop in to use it no more than you’re taking your phone in to edit a video.
    Different tasks for different devices for better usability. When you move to one traditional device, you end up making usability sacrifices. 

    You don't need a tablet if you are mobile and mostly make voice calls or use instant messaging. 

    If you are mobile and do things that are suited to a bigger screen, you can carry two devices, leading to far more bulk and weight. 

    Or you can opt for a folding phone and get the usability advantages of both a phone and a tablet but without the bulk

    As a plus, you could even get the use of the main camera for selfies. 
    Well that's straight up BS, but I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

    For example, the iPhone 14 is 7.80mm thick while the Samsung Galaxy Fold 4 is 15.80mm thick. A little over doublet thickness as a smartphone despite you claiming "without the bulk".

    Additionally, in tablet mode you get a mediocre tablet that's not really much bigger to warrant either the expense or having to use a considerably more bulky smartphone when the the iPhone mini size is the least popular size. The 10–11" range is the most popular with the 12–13" range following, with the iPad mini bring up the rear.

    Even if the iPad mini was the most popular size, a double-size iPhone display wouldn't come close to the screen area. It's would all be a shitty iPhone and shitty iPad experience, just as all of these folding devices have been to date.

    Here's one recent survey...

    You obviously haven't been following folding phones. 

    Some points. 

    Even at 15mm a folding phone beats the bulk of having both a phone and a tablet to carry around. 

    You probably cherry picked your example as the Samsung is just one of many. 

    The last Huawei was basically the same thickness as an iPhone in a case. Once 8n tablet mode it's thinner.

    Last August, Xiaomi released what was then the world's thinnest folding phone. 

    Lots of reviewers say they would keep their review units if they could. Some buy them for themselves anyway. 

    If the experience was so shitty, do you think that that kind of user would buy them? 

    The experience is better because it is bigger. The whole point of a folding phone isn't that 'it folds'. The point is that you get a tablet mode that, without a tablet on hand along with your regular phone, is impossible. 

    It is better for the reasons I've already given and if Apple releases a folding phone they will be marketing exactly that. 

    Fragility? Have you see any 'fold gate' stories? Any mass breaking? 

    Forget folding phones for a second, what is the number one break point on a regular phone? The glass, right? Front and back. And no moving parts! 

    Yes, the hinge has moving parts. Get over it. 
    As usual, that's a lot of non sequitors and other argumentative fallacies, but I'll address one non sequitor you bring up as some glowing reason why a folding smartphone that becomes an extra small tablet are brilliant: the lack of "fold gate" in the media. Your implication is that the technology is excellent when in fact you can't begin to have significant device issues paired with mass outrage over a tech failure until that technology actually affect people en masse which is not going to happen with such weak sales.
    Nonsense. Any device that sells for over a $1,500 and fails precisely on the point for which you bought it, would be all over the news. 

    Just look at the Samsung review units, most of which failed due to people trying to pull off what they thought was a screen protector which had to be removed. 

    That story was impossible to miss. 

    If folding phones, the ones that have sold in millions so far, had had any kind of statistically significant failure rate, we would be well aware of it by now. 

    I didn't say the folding technology was 'excellent' but if you take a look around and see what people think, that adjective would not be a poor choice. 

    As I've said, my brother's entire family moved to folding phones and I have another brother with a Samsung Fold. 

    They love them and have had zero issues. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
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