<strong>It is already ridiculous that the 14" iBook is essentially a Pismo with new plastics aimed at the education market. I have no idea who is buying one of these for $1700 when they can get a Pismo 500 for $1000 on ebay.
The 14" should be priced around $1300, and the 12" should be replaced by a light-weight iBook.
The 12" could get lighter by making the CD-ROM external, and maybe moving to a iPod size drive (though the cost probably wouldn't be worth the weight).
There is definitely room for a G3 light-weight laptop.
There are students who can't afford computers with frills they don't need, and there are professionals out there who want a laptop to supplement their desktops.
I'm imagining a G3 laptop with a 10-12" screen, EXTERNAL CD-ROM, ethernet port, PCMCIA slot (in case someone still wants a modem), one firewire port, one USB port, and a long lasting battery.
No modem, no expensive graphics card, no video mirroring, etc..
This would be a strictly low cost alternative for (non-gaming) students/second computer for mobile professionals.
All it needs to do is run office and work on the web, nothing more. Since the technology it would use is mostly stuff that already has come down substantially in price, Apple should still get a healthy margin out of this sort of laptop.</strong><hr></blockquote>
that is a horrible idea. it would not sell. Instead Apple would be making a piece of shit that is the equivalent of what a notebook from eMachines would be.
The ibook sells. it sells very well. Why **** with it?
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
It's the 21st century. You're worried about the couple of onces and cms an optical drive adds when its internal? Give me a break. the iBook is not where the problem is.
<strong>...The 12" could get lighter by making the CD-ROM external, and maybe moving to a iPod size drive (though the cost probably wouldn't be worth the weight).
There is definitely room for a G3 light-weight laptop.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I did a short study on how to strip weight from an iBook. I was thinking of modifying it for my own use. I think the CD-ROM drive in the iBook is very light. I guess that most of the trimmable weight is tied up in the case itself. Probably more expensive HDs are lighter than those used in the iBook. I think you could leave the modem in. It is so small and light and cheap it doesn't make a difference.
All I'm sayin' is that the Sony SRX77 would be a very attractive option if it were a Macintosh. You try carrying a 6-pound laptop and a briefcase or backpack on the New York City Subway during rush hour and tell me then that it wouldn't sound good to you too.
[quote]
that is a horrible idea. it would not sell. Instead Apple would be making a piece of shit that is the equivalent of what a notebook from eMachines would be.
The ibook sells. it sells very well. Why **** with it?
<hr></blockquote>
So angry! <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Yes. In my opinion, there clearly is a need (and room) for a third line in Apple's laptop lineup. Those of you who know me will remember that I have advocated the introduction of a sub-PowerBook for many years.
By the way, for all I care it could be a sub-iBook. All I care about is small size and light weight. I could easily live with iBook performance instead of PowerBook performance, especially since a smaller subnotebook makes a stationary desktop at home or at work more likely.
I haven't investigated the Wintel competition in many months. But joseph mother's comments about the <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/sr/index.shtml"; target="_blank">Sony VAIO SRX77</a> prompted me to have a new look at the <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/"; target="_blank">Sony Style</a> website. I admit that I've always been attracted to the <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/picturebook/index.shtml"; target="_blank">C1 Picturebook</a> and its (slightly) larger brothers in the old 505 series. However, the <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/sr/index.shtml"; target="_blank">SRX77</a> simply blew me away. 802.11a (AirPort) networking is finally built-in, together with modem, 10/100 Base-T Ethernet, USB and 1384 (iLink/FireWire) ports that don't require any dongles or docks. Battery life is just as good as with the latest 'Books. With the double-capacity battery (not available on any Apple laptop) battery life is nothing short of spectacular. Only downside is that I couldn't run OS X on it.
If Apple went out of business and took OS X with it, I would be happy to trade my iBook for an SRX77. Until recently, it was always the combination of the Mac OS and Apple hardware that kept me in the Mac camp. But at this point, Mac OS X may be more important in keeping me with my Macs than hardware.
We'll see what Apple comes up with in the next few months. (Unfortunately, my bet is against a subnotebook.)
I fully agree a Powerbook Lite is needed in a big way. Basically the Sony would be a good model to follow but the Fujitsu Lifebook P would be better as it still has a CD/DVD drive and remains under 3 lbs. Add in built in Bluetooth and Airport. Or you can follow the Toshiba Portege 2000 which is tiny. Note the key word "follow" Apple used to lead the subnotebook market with the Duo and now they don't even have a product.
Also they should check out the cPad technology over at Toshiba
<strong>All I'm sayin' is that the Sony SRX77 would be a very attractive option if it were a Macintosh. You try carrying a 6-pound laptop and a briefcase or backpack on the New York City Subway during rush hour and tell me then that it wouldn't sound good to you too.
So angry! <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
uh.. do hat quite often without a problem.
for you to think the thing you described would sell BETTER to schools than the iBook is assine. It would sell far worse.
Since I just bought like 36,000 iBooks with my tax dollars (at last they are going for something good!) I wonder if a seventh-grader proof option will result after the kids get a chance to use them. Something sturdy but basic, with more sophisticated options available at home or at school.
At the opposite end, I'd want the cosmically enhanced TiBook for my own use...just waiting for those tantalizing upgrades rumored elsewhere nearby. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
I dunno. The only scenario in which I'd like to see "three laptop lines" (though really if you count the 14" iBook as a separate line, which it kinda is, we already have that) would be if there were two sizes of PowerBooks. Just like with the iBooks.
They could keep the iBooks slower and thicker and consumer-oriented.. if anything, trash the 14".
Retain the current, middle-of-the-road-specs 15.2" TiBook.
And add a 19" or 23" (viewable) HD widescreen 2:3 TiBook, with dual 1GHz G4s and 2.5GB of RAM or something.
And make it touchscreen. Actually, remove the keyboard too, so that the keyboard implementation can be on the screen if people don't want to use the touchscreen, Rosetta Stone writing recognition, or voice-control technology. That would be nice. And maybe make it OLED, and roll-up-able.
I'm going to go the other way, just 'cause I'm like that.
Steve has said that the PowerBook line has always tried to accommodate people who want maximum power and people who want maximum portability - "power" and "sex," to use the MWSF terminology. So, to introduce a third model, just split the line along this distinction.
The PowerBook becomes what it essentially was in the WallStreet era: The "Lamborghini of laptops" at 8 voluptuous pounds, with specs one would associate with a "portable desktop." The other model - uh, SexBook? - would be a true laptop more like the current TiBook, only since it would no longer need to wear the all-out performance hat Apple could get it running cooler, and possibly even more svelte. It would still be significantly more powerful than, say, an iBook, but it would retain the power/weight tradeoff of the current models, only trading off a little more power for a little less weight (and battery life), while the PowerBook line would trade more weight for more power.
As for a subnote, I still think the odds of Apple shipping a machine that is not fully functional as a unit (i.e., with at least a CD drive) is slimmer than the PC laptops y'all are linking to. But then, Apple has certainly surprised me before.
1. I'm assuming that one camp would be the business/productivity market.
These people have briefcases and can carry something larger than a pda, but don't need to edit video...just email, web browse remotely and look at Word, Excel and PowerPoint documents. They can use the wide-format PictureBook and don't need much realestate. I personally love the form factor and my friend at NASA who uses one says it is the one reason he doesn't regret not having a Mac. These people like the TiBook and many bought one for those DVD's on the plane, but now they want something smaller and cheaper.
I assume Steve has been thinking that an Apple version of a PictureBook wouldn't attract enough people to switch from their corporate Wintel Viao's to make a large enough market. That is a marketing issue to some degree, since these people use software that exists on the Mac. However these people won't jump ship unless their IT departments support the jump and so it is a corporate structure issue within Apple to really "do business."
2. Another group would be the very light weight video/creative market, which would use the set up as seen in the SRX77 website Escher mentioned. This is more Apple's core and the size limitation means these people have a pro desktop somewhere for the real work. This group has had to decide between the TiBook if they have the budget and the iBook if they don't. I'm thinking the G3 in the iBook is not making them happy and the TiBook has been sitting unchanged for awhile.
This would be a smaller but easy market for Apple to go for. However it already has done this with the iBook - the portable iMac. The iMac itself has been evolving from the "simple, introductory easy-to-use first computer for grandma" into the sophisticated digital hub for grandma and uncle Bert with his videocamera and junior with his bootlegged mp3's and videos.
3. The Prosumer MacHead who doesn't need it, but wants it. These would be students with more games and money than sense or someone with a new iMac at home who travels alot or someone like me. The iBook really isn't too big and can do most of what I want (though not with blazing speed), but since I know it is technically possible, I would rather buy a small TiBook rather than an iBook.
This is a challenging group for Apple because the subnotebook would directly cannabalize some iBook sales.
So which subnotebook form factor would hit these and other groups?
Sorry, nothing will do it for everyone. That is why Sony produces lots of kinds of Viao's. That's what consumer electronic companies do. They don't make 3 kinds and expect people to choose one. They make dozens of them, but also figure out a price structure that allows them to not need a killer profit on every one. It requires an advantage of scale that Apple still hasn't gotten to.
Financially, I think they are about there. They sold more than Gateway this quarter, I think I read. But mentally Apple still feels everything has to be a home run product and that isn't the attitude to have if you are going to compete with Sony.
For me the interim answer that gives real benefit to the widest market not currently served by iBooks and TiBooks, is the PictureBook form. Wide format, functional keyboard, almost paperback-sized and significantly smaller than any other Mac portable. It is more than just a smaller version of an iBook. If marketed as the subnotebook TiBook, then it would have wide appeal and a discernible niche. Short screens are no longer a problem for OSX and iApps would work perfectly in that environment.
And if it could fold into a tablet 'a la the Clio, it would be COOL! I bet even Matsu would like it.
a sub-notebook can't have a cd drive built it. you have to give that up. they could bundle a cd drive with the model. an optical drive just takes up too much space
the point is to get the machine just about as small as possible to it won't bother/burden you to carry it around. the cd drive adds to the weight and size. just drop it and bundle an external so people who need/want a cd drive whenever they go somewhere is happy
as much as i'd like to see this, i really really really don't see this happening. the way apple is heading is having the 2 sizes of ibooks and the powerbook. having 2 sizes of powerbooks also would start to clutter the product lineup.;
I'm really enjoying the discussion here. Thanks for starting a new subnotebook thread, satchmo.
I've been doing a little bit more research about recent Wintel subnotebooks. It looks like many of them now have 802.11b built-in. Their battery life is also improving with cool innovations like a backlight that you can turn off on the <a href="http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1720&a=23295,00.asp"; target="_blank">NEC Daylight</a>. (BTW, the March edition of PC Magazine featured an in-depth <a href="http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1720&a=23150,00.asp"; target="_blank">investigation of ultraportables</a> with dozens of great articles.)
Delving deeper into the Sony VAIO SRX77, I found a <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64455-2002Mar9.html"; target="_blank">great SRX77 review</a> by the Washington Post's Rob Pegoraro. One part of the review reminded me why I've stuck with Macs for so long:
[quote]This SRX77's ergonomics aren't so spiffy, either. The keyboard's right-hand shift key is too small. The ports are distributed around the machine's edges in no logical manner, hidden behind flimsy plastic doors. The power switch sits next to the screen's locking switch, where one can be confused for the other. I couldn't help wishing that Apple had designed this thing.<hr></blockquote>
That last sentence just cracked me up. I guess I'll be stuck forever waiting for an Apple subnotebook.
<strong>3. The Prosumer MacHead who doesn't need it, but wants it. These would be students with more games and money than sense or someone with a new iMac at home who travels alot or someone like me. The iBook really isn't too big and can do most of what I want (though not with blazing speed), but since I know it is technically possible, I would rather buy a small TiBook rather than an iBook.</strong><hr></blockquote>
MacGregor: That's a pretty reasonable rundown of potential markets for an Apple subnotebook. I would certainly count myself in the third category, although I will fall into the first one after graduation next year.
However, needs and wants are difficult to distinguish. I live just fine with my 5 lbs iBook. It fulfills all of my immediate portable computing needs. But if it was smaller and weighed half, it would fit my mission profile even better. Do I really need Mac OS X? It certainly makes life easier than PITA Windows. Do I really need a 2.5 lbs laptop? So far I've determined that I'd rather carry a 5 lbs Mac laptop than a 3 lbs Wintel. If we take the need discussion ad absurdum, I don't need a laptop, or any computer, at all. I can live without a laptop.
[quote]<strong>And if it could fold into a tablet 'a la the Clio, it would be COOL! I bet even Matsu would like it. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm glad you remember the Clio. I haven't seen one in ages. The concept was good. But I suspect the execution wasn't sturdy enough and the fullfledged subnotes (with full Windows instead of WincCE) caught up too fast.
Why not make the iBook's screen go all the way out to the edge, like the TiBook's screen? That'd be a not-too-expensive, easy upgrade that would improve the functionality of the computer without making it too different.
It would be cool to have a sort of Duo Dock sort of thing, with a detachable screen on the computer and a larger built in LCD monitor. You'd get the expandability of a desktop with more price but it'd be portable and you wouldn't need a docking station if you took it out a lot. You'd have tons of room for extra firewire and usb ports, as well as extra RAM and hard drive bays. The Duo seems like such a good idea, why not have a sort of thing like that again?
The powerbook G4 is pretty much the size and weight of a couple of sheets of A4. The heavy component is the battery; a subnotebook would lose lots of functionality without any real advantage.
Hi Escher: Yeah, the Clio by Vadem was cool at the day, but now has left these shores. I thought it was a great form-factor, but it was marketed as a portable email device running WinCE and must not have had the power to do much else or generate much excitement.
Vadem has stopped producing it and now concentrates on wireless networks, chips and CalliGrapher which at least a few years ago was one of the best handwritting recognition programs around. <a href="http://www.vadem.com/index.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.vadem.com/index.htm</a>;
With harddrives and processors now, I would think this sized device could overcome its previous limits (as many hope the Newton could presently) and be a really productive and fun device. I would assume by now you could get OSX to run on it and that battery technology could make it even smaller and lighter to get to the PictureBook size. The PictureBook shows that brightness and resolution are good enough at that size, it is jsut a matter of finding the right I/O and keyboard conformations.
And with Vadem out of the notebook business, maybe Apple could use and improve upon their idea.
Note: For another bad PC attempt at the functionality, here is a pdf doc of the Samsung Izzi Swivel - kinda ugly, but maybe a swivel can be made better now that Apple has broken ground with the swivel iMac.
If would need to be a very small TI-book highly featured and I think it might be just one step too far.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But that's the idea, Addison. It seems possible, though, w/ no optical drives and one USB and one Firewire. Might as well use the strong suit of the embedded PPC's and see if they can give a good enough performance to heat/battery ratio.
This is a great thread and brings me back to the thoughts of why I bought my combo drive iBook in the first place.
There is a certain weight that you start to hit in a small laptop where convenience gets compromised severely. I put the iBook pretty much right on this precipace. (spelling?)
When you go smaller than 4.5 lbs or so, you start carrying around external components. Removing CD players and the like usually gets the thing down to about 3 to 3.5 lbs. Reducing the keyboard size and or modifying the size of the keys or eliminating some keys seems to reduce it slightly more. This allows for the screen to get a little smaller.
When I was shopping and comparing before the iBook hit the market, I soon realized that I would need the external pieces that the smallest of the small need. These have weight, extra bulk, are easy to leave behind, have cords, some require power, etc. Some machines require a dock for connectors.
When I saw the iBook on the keynote, I ordered before it was off of the screen. The price was unbeatable. (And I still think that way.)
I realized that having a stripped down version would hurt me on the road. Let's say I took my little 2 lb machine to give a presentation. While there, I get a call from my office or a request from a client to do something that I need my other laptop for or that I had left those extra components at home. Oops.
The only thing I would change would be to make the screen as large as possible with the same dimensions. Maybe there is a way to use a lighter weight material. (Although the shell of the ibook is pretty much bulletproof after a year of extensive plane travel.)
A G4 would also be nice. I am very happy with my G3 ibook 500 and use it everyday whether on the plane or in my office.
If I were Apple, given the loyalty that Wallstreet/Lombard/Pismo owners have toward their machines, I'd kill the 14.1" iBook, and bring back Pismo with a G4 as the midrange product.
Comments
<strong>It is already ridiculous that the 14" iBook is essentially a Pismo with new plastics aimed at the education market. I have no idea who is buying one of these for $1700 when they can get a Pismo 500 for $1000 on ebay.
The 14" should be priced around $1300, and the 12" should be replaced by a light-weight iBook.
The 12" could get lighter by making the CD-ROM external, and maybe moving to a iPod size drive (though the cost probably wouldn't be worth the weight).
There is definitely room for a G3 light-weight laptop.
There are students who can't afford computers with frills they don't need, and there are professionals out there who want a laptop to supplement their desktops.
I'm imagining a G3 laptop with a 10-12" screen, EXTERNAL CD-ROM, ethernet port, PCMCIA slot (in case someone still wants a modem), one firewire port, one USB port, and a long lasting battery.
No modem, no expensive graphics card, no video mirroring, etc..
This would be a strictly low cost alternative for (non-gaming) students/second computer for mobile professionals.
All it needs to do is run office and work on the web, nothing more. Since the technology it would use is mostly stuff that already has come down substantially in price, Apple should still get a healthy margin out of this sort of laptop.</strong><hr></blockquote>
that is a horrible idea. it would not sell. Instead Apple would be making a piece of shit that is the equivalent of what a notebook from eMachines would be.
The ibook sells. it sells very well. Why **** with it?
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
It's the 21st century. You're worried about the couple of onces and cms an optical drive adds when its internal? Give me a break. the iBook is not where the problem is.
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>...The 12" could get lighter by making the CD-ROM external, and maybe moving to a iPod size drive (though the cost probably wouldn't be worth the weight).
There is definitely room for a G3 light-weight laptop.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I did a short study on how to strip weight from an iBook. I was thinking of modifying it for my own use. I think the CD-ROM drive in the iBook is very light. I guess that most of the trimmable weight is tied up in the case itself. Probably more expensive HDs are lighter than those used in the iBook. I think you could leave the modem in. It is so small and light and cheap it doesn't make a difference.
[quote]
that is a horrible idea. it would not sell. Instead Apple would be making a piece of shit that is the equivalent of what a notebook from eMachines would be.
The ibook sells. it sells very well. Why **** with it?
<hr></blockquote>
So angry! <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
By the way, for all I care it could be a sub-iBook. All I care about is small size and light weight. I could easily live with iBook performance instead of PowerBook performance, especially since a smaller subnotebook makes a stationary desktop at home or at work more likely.
I haven't investigated the Wintel competition in many months. But joseph mother's comments about the <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/sr/index.shtml"; target="_blank">Sony VAIO SRX77</a> prompted me to have a new look at the <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/"; target="_blank">Sony Style</a> website. I admit that I've always been attracted to the <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/picturebook/index.shtml"; target="_blank">C1 Picturebook</a> and its (slightly) larger brothers in the old 505 series. However, the <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/sr/index.shtml"; target="_blank">SRX77</a> simply blew me away. 802.11a (AirPort) networking is finally built-in, together with modem, 10/100 Base-T Ethernet, USB and 1384 (iLink/FireWire) ports that don't require any dongles or docks. Battery life is just as good as with the latest 'Books. With the double-capacity battery (not available on any Apple laptop) battery life is nothing short of spectacular. Only downside is that I couldn't run OS X on it.
If Apple went out of business and took OS X with it, I would be happy to trade my iBook for an SRX77. Until recently, it was always the combination of the Mac OS and Apple hardware that kept me in the Mac camp. But at this point, Mac OS X may be more important in keeping me with my Macs than hardware.
We'll see what Apple comes up with in the next few months. (Unfortunately, my bet is against a subnotebook.)
Escher
Also they should check out the cPad technology over at Toshiba
<strong>All I'm sayin' is that the Sony SRX77 would be a very attractive option if it were a Macintosh. You try carrying a 6-pound laptop and a briefcase or backpack on the New York City Subway during rush hour and tell me then that it wouldn't sound good to you too.
So angry! <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
uh.. do hat quite often without a problem.
for you to think the thing you described would sell BETTER to schools than the iBook is assine. It would sell far worse.
At the opposite end, I'd want the cosmically enhanced TiBook for my own use...just waiting for those tantalizing upgrades rumored elsewhere nearby. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
They could keep the iBooks slower and thicker and consumer-oriented.. if anything, trash the 14".
Retain the current, middle-of-the-road-specs 15.2" TiBook.
And add a 19" or 23" (viewable) HD widescreen 2:3 TiBook, with dual 1GHz G4s and 2.5GB of RAM or something.
And make it touchscreen. Actually, remove the keyboard too, so that the keyboard implementation can be on the screen if people don't want to use the touchscreen, Rosetta Stone writing recognition, or voice-control technology. That would be nice. And maybe make it OLED, and roll-up-able.
Make that a long-term plan, on second thought...
Steve has said that the PowerBook line has always tried to accommodate people who want maximum power and people who want maximum portability - "power" and "sex," to use the MWSF terminology. So, to introduce a third model, just split the line along this distinction.
The PowerBook becomes what it essentially was in the WallStreet era: The "Lamborghini of laptops" at 8 voluptuous pounds, with specs one would associate with a "portable desktop." The other model - uh, SexBook? - would be a true laptop more like the current TiBook, only since it would no longer need to wear the all-out performance hat Apple could get it running cooler, and possibly even more svelte. It would still be significantly more powerful than, say, an iBook, but it would retain the power/weight tradeoff of the current models, only trading off a little more power for a little less weight (and battery life), while the PowerBook line would trade more weight for more power.
As for a subnote, I still think the odds of Apple shipping a machine that is not fully functional as a unit (i.e., with at least a CD drive) is slimmer than the PC laptops y'all are linking to. But then, Apple has certainly surprised me before.
(There are more I'm sure, but its getting late)
1. I'm assuming that one camp would be the business/productivity market.
These people have briefcases and can carry something larger than a pda, but don't need to edit video...just email, web browse remotely and look at Word, Excel and PowerPoint documents. They can use the wide-format PictureBook and don't need much realestate. I personally love the form factor and my friend at NASA who uses one says it is the one reason he doesn't regret not having a Mac. These people like the TiBook and many bought one for those DVD's on the plane, but now they want something smaller and cheaper.
I assume Steve has been thinking that an Apple version of a PictureBook wouldn't attract enough people to switch from their corporate Wintel Viao's to make a large enough market. That is a marketing issue to some degree, since these people use software that exists on the Mac. However these people won't jump ship unless their IT departments support the jump and so it is a corporate structure issue within Apple to really "do business."
2. Another group would be the very light weight video/creative market, which would use the set up as seen in the SRX77 website Escher mentioned. This is more Apple's core and the size limitation means these people have a pro desktop somewhere for the real work. This group has had to decide between the TiBook if they have the budget and the iBook if they don't. I'm thinking the G3 in the iBook is not making them happy and the TiBook has been sitting unchanged for awhile.
This would be a smaller but easy market for Apple to go for. However it already has done this with the iBook - the portable iMac. The iMac itself has been evolving from the "simple, introductory easy-to-use first computer for grandma" into the sophisticated digital hub for grandma and uncle Bert with his videocamera and junior with his bootlegged mp3's and videos.
3. The Prosumer MacHead who doesn't need it, but wants it. These would be students with more games and money than sense or someone with a new iMac at home who travels alot or someone like me. The iBook really isn't too big and can do most of what I want (though not with blazing speed), but since I know it is technically possible, I would rather buy a small TiBook rather than an iBook.
This is a challenging group for Apple because the subnotebook would directly cannabalize some iBook sales.
So which subnotebook form factor would hit these and other groups?
Sorry, nothing will do it for everyone. That is why Sony produces lots of kinds of Viao's. That's what consumer electronic companies do. They don't make 3 kinds and expect people to choose one. They make dozens of them, but also figure out a price structure that allows them to not need a killer profit on every one. It requires an advantage of scale that Apple still hasn't gotten to.
Financially, I think they are about there. They sold more than Gateway this quarter, I think I read. But mentally Apple still feels everything has to be a home run product and that isn't the attitude to have if you are going to compete with Sony.
For me the interim answer that gives real benefit to the widest market not currently served by iBooks and TiBooks, is the PictureBook form. Wide format, functional keyboard, almost paperback-sized and significantly smaller than any other Mac portable. It is more than just a smaller version of an iBook. If marketed as the subnotebook TiBook, then it would have wide appeal and a discernible niche. Short screens are no longer a problem for OSX and iApps would work perfectly in that environment.
And if it could fold into a tablet 'a la the Clio, it would be COOL! I bet even Matsu would like it.
[ 04-24-2002: Message edited by: MacGregor ]</p>
the point is to get the machine just about as small as possible to it won't bother/burden you to carry it around. the cd drive adds to the weight and size. just drop it and bundle an external so people who need/want a cd drive whenever they go somewhere is happy
as much as i'd like to see this, i really really really don't see this happening. the way apple is heading is having the 2 sizes of ibooks and the powerbook. having 2 sizes of powerbooks also would start to clutter the product lineup.;
I've been doing a little bit more research about recent Wintel subnotebooks. It looks like many of them now have 802.11b built-in. Their battery life is also improving with cool innovations like a backlight that you can turn off on the <a href="http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1720&a=23295,00.asp"; target="_blank">NEC Daylight</a>. (BTW, the March edition of PC Magazine featured an in-depth <a href="http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1720&a=23150,00.asp"; target="_blank">investigation of ultraportables</a> with dozens of great articles.)
Delving deeper into the Sony VAIO SRX77, I found a <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64455-2002Mar9.html"; target="_blank">great SRX77 review</a> by the Washington Post's Rob Pegoraro. One part of the review reminded me why I've stuck with Macs for so long:
[quote]This SRX77's ergonomics aren't so spiffy, either. The keyboard's right-hand shift key is too small. The ports are distributed around the machine's edges in no logical manner, hidden behind flimsy plastic doors. The power switch sits next to the screen's locking switch, where one can be confused for the other. I couldn't help wishing that Apple had designed this thing.<hr></blockquote>
That last sentence just cracked me up. I guess I'll be stuck forever waiting for an Apple subnotebook.
Escher
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
<strong>3. The Prosumer MacHead who doesn't need it, but wants it. These would be students with more games and money than sense or someone with a new iMac at home who travels alot or someone like me. The iBook really isn't too big and can do most of what I want (though not with blazing speed), but since I know it is technically possible, I would rather buy a small TiBook rather than an iBook.</strong><hr></blockquote>
MacGregor: That's a pretty reasonable rundown of potential markets for an Apple subnotebook. I would certainly count myself in the third category, although I will fall into the first one after graduation next year.
However, needs and wants are difficult to distinguish. I live just fine with my 5 lbs iBook. It fulfills all of my immediate portable computing needs. But if it was smaller and weighed half, it would fit my mission profile even better. Do I really need Mac OS X? It certainly makes life easier than PITA Windows. Do I really need a 2.5 lbs laptop? So far I've determined that I'd rather carry a 5 lbs Mac laptop than a 3 lbs Wintel. If we take the need discussion ad absurdum, I don't need a laptop, or any computer, at all. I can live without a laptop.
[quote]<strong>And if it could fold into a tablet 'a la the Clio, it would be COOL! I bet even Matsu would like it.
I'm glad you remember the Clio. I haven't seen one in ages. The concept was good. But I suspect the execution wasn't sturdy enough and the fullfledged subnotes (with full Windows instead of WincCE) caught up too fast.
Escher
It would be cool to have a sort of Duo Dock sort of thing, with a detachable screen on the computer and a larger built in LCD monitor. You'd get the expandability of a desktop with more price but it'd be portable and you wouldn't need a docking station if you took it out a lot. You'd have tons of room for extra firewire and usb ports, as well as extra RAM and hard drive bays. The Duo seems like such a good idea, why not have a sort of thing like that again?
This site gives a good overview of the device for those unfamiliar with it. <a href="http://www.vnunet.com/Products/Hardware/1102554"; target="_blank">http://www.vnunet.com/Products/Hardware/1102554</a>;
Vadem has stopped producing it and now concentrates on wireless networks, chips and CalliGrapher which at least a few years ago was one of the best handwritting recognition programs around. <a href="http://www.vadem.com/index.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.vadem.com/index.htm</a>;
With harddrives and processors now, I would think this sized device could overcome its previous limits (as many hope the Newton could presently) and be a really productive and fun device. I would assume by now you could get OSX to run on it and that battery technology could make it even smaller and lighter to get to the PictureBook size. The PictureBook shows that brightness and resolution are good enough at that size, it is jsut a matter of finding the right I/O and keyboard conformations.
And with Vadem out of the notebook business, maybe Apple could use and improve upon their idea.
Note: For another bad PC attempt at the functionality, here is a pdf doc of the Samsung Izzi Swivel - kinda ugly, but maybe a swivel can be made better now that Apple has broken ground with the swivel iMac.
[Oops, forgot the link <a href="http://www.pcplus.co.uk/imgbank/pdf/167/167.reviews.samsungizziswivel.pdf"; target="_blank">http://www.pcplus.co.uk/imgbank/pdf/167/167.reviews.samsungizziswivel.pdf</a>; ]
[ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: MacGregor ]</p>
If would need to be a very small TI-book highly featured and I think it might be just one step too far.
<strong>The only product Apple could add to their range would be a direct compettitor to this: <a href="http://www.vaio.sony-europe.com/eng/products/notebooks/c1ve_frames_top.html"; target="_blank">http://www.vaio.sony-europe.com/eng/products/notebooks/c1ve_frames_top.html</a>;
If would need to be a very small TI-book highly featured and I think it might be just one step too far.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But that's the idea, Addison. It seems possible, though, w/ no optical drives and one USB and one Firewire. Might as well use the strong suit of the embedded PPC's and see if they can give a good enough performance to heat/battery ratio.
There is a certain weight that you start to hit in a small laptop where convenience gets compromised severely. I put the iBook pretty much right on this precipace. (spelling?)
When you go smaller than 4.5 lbs or so, you start carrying around external components. Removing CD players and the like usually gets the thing down to about 3 to 3.5 lbs. Reducing the keyboard size and or modifying the size of the keys or eliminating some keys seems to reduce it slightly more. This allows for the screen to get a little smaller.
When I was shopping and comparing before the iBook hit the market, I soon realized that I would need the external pieces that the smallest of the small need. These have weight, extra bulk, are easy to leave behind, have cords, some require power, etc. Some machines require a dock for connectors.
When I saw the iBook on the keynote, I ordered before it was off of the screen. The price was unbeatable. (And I still think that way.)
I realized that having a stripped down version would hurt me on the road. Let's say I took my little 2 lb machine to give a presentation. While there, I get a call from my office or a request from a client to do something that I need my other laptop for or that I had left those extra components at home. Oops.
The only thing I would change would be to make the screen as large as possible with the same dimensions. Maybe there is a way to use a lighter weight material. (Although the shell of the ibook is pretty much bulletproof after a year of extensive plane travel.)
A G4 would also be nice. I am very happy with my G3 ibook 500 and use it everyday whether on the plane or in my office.
[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: kcmac ]</p>
People are extremely attached to their Pismos.
Jet