Apple, Alphabet, Meta push back against US spy law

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Apple, Alphabet, and Meta are lobbying to curtail a tool that grants intelligence agencies the right to collect and view the personal information of American citizens.




Big Tech seeks to change the way Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) works before Congress attempts to renew the law before the year's end. Specifically, Section 702 allows government agencies to demand data -- such as phone records, texts, and emails -- from companies for national security investigations.

While intelligence agencies say Section 702 is an essential tool to fight terrorism, U.S. officials have acknowledged that there have been "compliance incidents" over how it's been used to obtain information, Bloomberg points out.

However, those agencies have said that reforms have been made to prevent such abuses.

FBI Director Christopher Wray notes that Section 702 database searches have dropped 93% between 2021 and 2022.

Still, tech companies and activists have a good cause to seek to limit Section 702. Many companies faced severe pushback after Edward Snowden exposed their involvement with intelligence agencies.

Specifically, they hope to gain the ability to publicly disclose how often they're asked to provide information under Section 702 and what kind of data they are expected to hand over.

Big Tech also hopes to restrict intelligence agencies from using the information and instead require a warrant before agencies can search the Section 702 database for info on U.S. citizens.

There has been support for limiting Section 702 by both Republicans and Democrats. Representative Darin LaHood, a Republican from Illinois, has publicly said that "a clean legislative reauthorization of 702 is a non-starter."

Representative Pramila Jayapal, a Democrat from Washington, has gone on record saying, "We must take this opportunity to reform Section 702 and overhaul privacy protections for Americans."

In the first half of 2020 alone, Apple had received 4,177 "account requests" from government agencies, in general, involving 40,641 people. In the U.S., police and spy agencies can legally obtain material such as emails and iCloud backups so long as it can be decrypted.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,860member
    Unconstitutional, warrantless searches. What could go wrong?
    baconstangwilliamlondondewmelolliverNotSoMuchbyronlOferwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 20
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    Unconstitutional, warrantless searches. What could go wrong?
    Pretty much. 
    williamlondonbyronlOferwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 20
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,211member
    "...According to new research by VPN provider SurfShark, the US government makes the most requests for user data from Big Tech companies than any other jurisdiction in the world. The company analyzed data requests to Apple, Google, Meta, and Microsoft by “government agencies of 177 countries between 2013 and 2021.”

    The US came in first with 2,451,077 account requests, more than four times the number of Germany, the number two country on the list. In fact, the US made more requests than all of Europe, including the UK, which collectively came in under 2 million."

    "The report also sheds light on which companies comply the most versus which ones push back against requests. For all of its privacy-oriented marketing — “what happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone” — Apple complies with data requests more than any other company, handing it over 82% of the time.

    In contrast, Meta complies 72% of the time, and Google does 71% of the time. Microsoft, on the other hand, pushes back the most among Big Tech companies, only handing data over 68% of the time."


    edited March 2023 lkruppctt_zhviclauyycmuthuk_vanalingambyronlrob53Ofer
  • Reply 4 of 20
    baconstangbaconstang Posts: 1,105member
    For US citizens, NO fishing without a warrant.
    byronlOferwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 20
    twolf2919twolf2919 Posts: 110member
    gatorguy said:
    "...According to new research by VPN provider SurfShark, the US government makes the most requests for user data from Big Tech companies than any other jurisdiction in the world. The company analyzed data requests to Apple, Google, Meta, and Microsoft by “government agencies of 177 countries between 2013 and 2021.”

    The US came in first with 2,451,077 account requests, more than four times the number of Germany, the number two country on the list. In fact, the US made more requests than all of Europe, including the UK, which collectively came in under 2 million."

    "The report also sheds light on which companies comply the most versus which ones push back against requests. For all of its privacy-oriented marketing — “what happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone” — Apple complies with data requests more than any other company, handing it over 82% of the time.

    In contrast, Meta complies 72% of the time, and Google does 71% of the time. Microsoft, on the other hand, pushes back the most among Big Tech companies, only handing data over 68% of the time."


    These statistics are meaningless without context.  Apple keeps a lot less personal information - that it has in decrypted form - than any of the other companies mentioned.  So, arguably, it has less reasons not to comply than these other companies.   I.e., it is because "what happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone", Apple can comply with requests for data it does have - i.e. unencrypted iCloud data (which, as of iOS 16, the user has the option to also encrypt).
    edited March 2023 williamlondonradarthekatbyronlrob53Oferwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 20
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    gatorguy said:
    "...According to new research by VPN provider SurfShark, the US government makes the most requests for user data from Big Tech companies than any other jurisdiction in the world. The company analyzed data requests to Apple, Google, Meta, and Microsoft by “government agencies of 177 countries between 2013 and 2021.”

    The US came in first with 2,451,077 account requests, more than four times the number of Germany, the number two country on the list. In fact, the US made more requests than all of Europe, including the UK, which collectively came in under 2 million."

    "The report also sheds light on which companies comply the most versus which ones push back against requests. For all of its privacy-oriented marketing — “what happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone” — Apple complies with data requests more than any other company, handing it over 82% of the time.

    In contrast, Meta complies 72% of the time, and Google does 71% of the time. Microsoft, on the other hand, pushes back the most among Big Tech companies, only handing data over 68% of the time."


    82% of what? Do they have 1/10 the requests? The percentage doesn’t tell you anything until you know how many requests that were made to each organization. 82% out of 100 requests is not a big deal if meta and Google each get a million. 

    Also your source is SurfShark. They have a vested interest in making the numbers look as bad as they can in order to get more subscribers. Better to wait for numbers from some group that isn’t going to profit from them. 
    edited March 2023 williamlondonlolliverradarthekatbyronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 20
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,841member
    The bar should be set at no warrant no fishing trip…..
    byronlOferwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 20
    DAalseth said:
    gatorguy said:
    "...According to new research by VPN provider SurfShark, the US government makes the most requests for user data from Big Tech companies than any other jurisdiction in the world. The company analyzed data requests to Apple, Google, Meta, and Microsoft by “government agencies of 177 countries between 2013 and 2021.”

    The US came in first with 2,451,077 account requests, more than four times the number of Germany, the number two country on the list. In fact, the US made more requests than all of Europe, including the UK, which collectively came in under 2 million."

    "The report also sheds light on which companies comply the most versus which ones push back against requests. For all of its privacy-oriented marketing — “what happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone” — Apple complies with data requests more than any other company, handing it over 82% of the time.

    In contrast, Meta complies 72% of the time, and Google does 71% of the time. Microsoft, on the other hand, pushes back the most among Big Tech companies, only handing data over 68% of the time."


    82% of what? Do they have 1/10 the requests? The percentage doesn’t tell you anything until you know how many requests that were made to each organization. 82% out of 100 requests is not a big deal if meta and Google each get a million. 

    Also your source is SurfShark. They have a vested interest in making the numbers look as bad as they can in order to get more subscribers. Better to wait for numbers from some group that isn’t going to profit from them. 
    Apple complying with over 80% of government requests has been a known fact for years.  It's been a known fact because Apple themselves publishes it twice a year in their Transparency Report.  So does everyone else.  Tons of companies publish their privacy reports.  Again, it's nothing new.  Apple has been publishing this information for nearly a decade... and yes, they comply with the vast majority of the requests.  Pretty much just like every other mega-corp.  

    https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html

    https://transparencyreport.google.com/?hl=en

    https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacy-report-april2022

    https://transparency.fb.com/data/




    ctt_zhviclauyycbyronl
  • Reply 9 of 20
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,480member
    One thing this article gets me thinking is who is Edward Snowden really. It wasn’t until 3 years later in 2016 that we realized how involved Russia has been in attempting to manipulate and infiltrate our government agencies and politics. The fact that he was welcomed with open arms in Russia is concerning in retrospect to say the least. 
    foregoneconclusionwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 20
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,211member
    twolf2919 said:
    gatorguy said:
    "...According to new research by VPN provider SurfShark, the US government makes the most requests for user data from Big Tech companies than any other jurisdiction in the world. The company analyzed data requests to Apple, Google, Meta, and Microsoft by “government agencies of 177 countries between 2013 and 2021.”

    The US came in first with 2,451,077 account requests, more than four times the number of Germany, the number two country on the list. In fact, the US made more requests than all of Europe, including the UK, which collectively came in under 2 million."

    "The report also sheds light on which companies comply the most versus which ones push back against requests. For all of its privacy-oriented marketing — “what happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone” — Apple complies with data requests more than any other company, handing it over 82% of the time.

    In contrast, Meta complies 72% of the time, and Google does 71% of the time. Microsoft, on the other hand, pushes back the most among Big Tech companies, only handing data over 68% of the time."


    These statistics are meaningless without context.  Apple keeps a lot less personal information - that it has in decrypted form - than any of the other companies mentioned. .
    Google has made E2EE encryption of user backups possible since Android 9 roughly five years ago (it's at 13), and has since been made the default. It's is impossible for them to access the encrypted user data as they have not not had a key to decrypt during that time. They are also offering E2EE for Google Cloud services (Sheets, Docs, etc) though they refer to it as client-side encryption which does the same thing. Google can't access it. In recent months they made Messages end-to-end encrypted, Google can't read it, and currently working on E2EE for GMail, with beta tests underway. Kudos to Apple too for expanding their own E2EE services this year. 

    Both Apple and Google "get it"; users want to make sure their data is kept protected and private, even from government access. 
    edited March 2023 ctt_zhbyronl
  • Reply 11 of 20
    Next step ?
    Uncle Sam wants access to all the Chinese, sorry I meant American companies.
    byronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 20
    genovelle said:
    One thing this article gets me thinking is who is Edward Snowden really. It wasn’t until 3 years later in 2016 that we realized how involved Russia has been in attempting to manipulate and infiltrate our government agencies and politics. The fact that he was welcomed with open arms in Russia is concerning in retrospect to say the least. 
    If you read his book and other articles, it is the US government that canceled his passport after he arrived in Russia. Thus, no visa no entry to the third country. He never intended to stay in Russia. If US government don’t cancel his passport, he is already living in other countries.

    also, he agreed to return to US to stand trial, the only condition is the trial must be open to pubic. But US only promise not to torture him and refuse public trail. 
    baconstangbyronlOferanonymousewatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 20
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,047member
    gatorguy said:
    "...According to new research by VPN provider SurfShark, the US government makes the most requests for user data from Big Tech companies than any other jurisdiction in the world. The company analyzed data requests to Apple, Google, Meta, and Microsoft by “government agencies of 177 countries between 2013 and 2021.”

    The US came in first with 2,451,077 account requests, more than four times the number of Germany, the number two country on the list. In fact, the US made more requests than all of Europe, including the UK, which collectively came in under 2 million."

    "The report also sheds light on which companies comply the most versus which ones push back against requests. For all of its privacy-oriented marketing — “what happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone” — Apple complies with data requests more than any other company, handing it over 82% of the time.

    In contrast, Meta complies 72% of the time, and Google does 71% of the time. Microsoft, on the other hand, pushes back the most among Big Tech companies, only handing data over 68% of the time."



    But the US have about 4x the population of Germany. Is that factored in? If not, then the US and Germany would be about the same in the number of government search request .... "per capita".
    byronlrob53sphericwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 20
    This article is too vague.

    Section 702 is supposed to be a foreign intelligence tool that focuses on terrorism and espionage. Technically it's not allowed to target "U.S. persons" but can collect data on them if the foreign target is in communication with people in the United States. Yes, the FBI can search the Section 702 data base but since 2018 they are legally required to get a court order for reviewing non-foreign data for criminal investigations that aren't related to national security. There are documented situations since 2018 where the FBI failed to get the court order and used the Section 702 data base like that anyway, thus the controversy. Example: Darin LaHood, the Republican quoted in the article, has personally claimed the FBI searched for info under his name in the Section 702 data base without a court order.


  • Reply 15 of 20
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,248member
    Article talks about national security investigations. It doesn’t mention normal court requests using legal warrants. How many of the aforementioned percentages are for NS investigations? We all know the FBI has spied on US citizens since before it was the FBI. How many NSA and CIA (plus agencies we don’t know of) have contributed to these unconstitutional requests and demands? It would be nice if our government trusted us but trust starts with its citizens and foreign guests. Until people stop lying and act honestly we unfortunately need to investigate the criminals. 

    Don’t commit a crime if you can’t handle the time (or have enough money to buy your way out of jail).
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 20
    genovelle said:
    One thing this article gets me thinking is who is Edward Snowden really. It wasn’t until 3 years later in 2016 that we realized how involved Russia has been in attempting to manipulate and infiltrate our government agencies and politics. The fact that he was welcomed with open arms in Russia is concerning in retrospect to say the least. 
    Snowden is essentially the same thing as WikiLeaks. The criticism was always targeting Western democracies. The "hacks" and "leaks" were mysteriously unable to reveal anything embarrassing elsewhere in the world. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 20
    rob53 said:
    Article talks about national security investigations. It doesn’t mention normal court requests using legal warrants. How many of the aforementioned percentages are for NS investigations? We all know the FBI has spied on US citizens since before it was the FBI. How many NSA and CIA (plus agencies we don’t know of) have contributed to these unconstitutional requests and demands? It would be nice if our government trusted us but trust starts with its citizens and foreign guests. Until people stop lying and act honestly we unfortunately need to investigate the criminals. 

    Don’t commit a crime if you can’t handle the time (or have enough money to buy your way out of jail).
    Each company's transparency report detail the answers to the questions you're asking.  I linked them above for the truly curious.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 18 of 20
    kmareikmarei Posts: 179member
    gatorguy said:
    "...According to new research by VPN provider SurfShark, the US government makes the most requests for user data from Big Tech companies than any other jurisdiction in the world. The company analyzed data requests to Apple, Google, Meta, and Microsoft by “government agencies of 177 countries between 2013 and 2021.”

    The US came in first with 2,451,077 account requests, more than four times the number of Germany, the number two country on the list. In fact, the US made more requests than all of Europe, including the UK, which collectively came in under 2 million."



    and yet some people worry about the chinese having access to our TikTok data :)

    i would much rather the chinese have my data than the US government

    i live in the US, so that data could harm me here

    what could the chinese do if they know i like cars and big hooters via my TikTok account?

    edited March 2023
  • Reply 19 of 20
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,860member
    genovelle said:
    One thing this article gets me thinking is who is Edward Snowden really. It wasn’t until 3 years later in 2016 that we realized how involved Russia has been in attempting to manipulate and infiltrate our government agencies and politics. The fact that he was welcomed with open arms in Russia is concerning in retrospect to say the least. 
    Snowden is essentially the same thing as WikiLeaks. The criticism was always targeting Western democracies. The "hacks" and "leaks" were mysteriously unable to reveal anything embarrassing elsewhere in the world. 
    Snowden was essentially trafficked to Russia by WikiLeaks, likely at Putin's request. Then the US government effectively trapped him there, playing straight into Putin's hands. Snowden is as much a victim of WikiLeaks as the rest of the West. WikiLeaks is essentially a foreign branch of the FSB & SVR.
    watto_cobra
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