Biden administration: Apple & Broadcom should quit stalling and pay Caltech $1.1 billion i...

Posted:
in General Discussion edited May 2023
Following Apple and Broadcom's $1.1 billion combined loss in court, the US Solicitor General has asked the Supreme Court to block the pair's attempt to invalidate Caltech's patents at the core of the suit.

Wi-Fi on iPhone
Wi-Fi on iPhone


The California Institute of Technology (Caltech) originally sued Apple and Broadcom in 2016, over infringement of multiple Wi-Fi technology patents. Caltech won the case in 2020, with Apple and Broadcom together being ordered to pay $1.1 billion in damages.

Following that defeat, Apple and Broadcom claimed that there had been "multiple legal errors" in the trial, and called for the result to be overturned. In February 2022, the two firms were denied a retrial over the patent infringements, but were granted a new trial to have the $1.1 billion sum reconsidered.

A trial date for that has yet to be determined but, separately, Apple has also been arguing that Caltech's patents are invalid. According to Reuters, the Biden Administration has now backed the 2020 finding, and asked the Supreme Court to dismiss Apple's claims.

US Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar said in a court filing that "further review is not warranted," after a lower court ruled against Apple.

"Apple took full advantage of the review process," continues Prelogar, "including by conducting discovery, submitting multiple motions, and -- after the USPTO ruled against it -- unsuccessfully appealing to the Federal Circuit."

The original case centered on Wi-Fi codes that simplify data encoding and decoding, thereby improving the performance of data transmission. During the course of its subsequent appeals -- but not the original trial -- Apple argued that there was "prior art" that rended the patents invalid.

"It is undisputed that, at the time Apple filed its petitions for inter partes review, it was aware of certain additional prior-art combinations that it believed provided a basis for invalidating respondent's patents," writes the US Solicitor General. "But Apple's petitions did not identify these additional prior-art combinations as bases for finding the challenged patent claims invalid."

Referring to the legal terms regarding the presentation of evidence, Prelogar says that "Apple 'reasonably could have raised' these grounds during the instituted reviews."

Apple reportedly says that it "strategically withheld certain arguments" because they largely involved "different permutations" of the prior art that the company did present earlier.

Apple, Broadcom, and Caltech have yet to comment publicly on the US Solicitor General's recommendation.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,031member
    Accepting the above at face value, the validity of the cal tech patents have not be adjudicated. The US and Cal Tech argument is purely procedural and not substantive. 

    I, for one, don't want patents to exist which violate basic patent law concepts such as prior art. 
    dewmerezwitsjony0
  • Reply 2 of 17
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,717member
    What the heck is up with this administration???

    this is a PRIVATE SECTOR DISPUTE! 

    Let the justice system play out. It’s not like the Biden family hasn’t been doing much stalling of their own. 

    There is an order and process to things. 

    The Biden admin needs to remember that this is America and not some communist dictatorship. 
    edited May 2023 rezwitsjrfunkbyronl
  • Reply 3 of 17
    What the heck is up with this administration???

    this is a PRIVATE SECTOR DISPUTE! 

    Let the justice system play out. It’s not like the Biden family hasn’t been doing much stalling of their own. 

    There is an order and process to things. 

    The Biden admin needs to remember that this is America and not some communist dictatorship. 
    Not germaine to this topic, factually challenged, and proffered by someone with no clear expertise in the relevant topics.

    Begone, Troll-o-matic.
    jdonAIapplebynatureunbeliever2ilarynxdewmebaconstangchasmbeowulfschmidtMystakilljony0
  • Reply 4 of 17
    jdonAIjdonAI Posts: 12member
    This, from the Zombie administration . . .
    jrfunkbyronl
  • Reply 5 of 17
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,858member
    In patent, cases, such as this always challenge the patent validity upfront, because the patent office seems to grant patents for just about anything, their philosophy appears to be, people, companies or any other interested party should fight it out in court later. In short, the patent office doesn’t want to take any real responsibility.

    I might add the upper division (the corpocracy ) actually prefers it this way, so change probably isn’t going to happen.
    ilarynxMystakill
  • Reply 6 of 17
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,031member
    What the heck is up with this administration???

    this is a PRIVATE SECTOR DISPUTE! 

    Let the justice system play out. It’s not like the Biden family hasn’t been doing much stalling of their own. 

    There is an order and process to things. 

    The Biden admin needs to remember that this is America and not some communist dictatorship. 
    There is nothing private about this case. It's about the validity of Patents, which I might remind you is a wholly Federal issue, enshrined the Constitution itself. Article I, Section 8.
    applebynatureunbeliever2ilarynxbaconstangchasmrezwitsbyronljony0
  • Reply 7 of 17
    danox said:
    In patent, cases, such as this always challenge the patent validity upfront, because the patent office seems to grant patents for just about anything, their philosophy appears to be, people, companies or any other interested party should fight it out in court later. In short, the patent office doesn’t want to take any real responsibility.

    I might add the upper division (the corpocracy ) actually prefers it this way, so change probably isn’t going to happen.
    I think one of the main issues is that the Patent Office cannot do much other than "to grant patents for just about anything". They do not have an adequate system nor anywhere close to the adequate resources required to fully vet every single one of the thousands of patents filed each day. So yes, the courts are left to decide most patent disputes at a later time, mostly by design. I'm not saying it should be this way, but it's the way its been for a very long time.
    edited May 2023 dewmerezwits
  • Reply 8 of 17
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,858member
    danox said:
    In patent, cases, such as this always challenge the patent validity upfront, because the patent office seems to grant patents for just about anything, their philosophy appears to be, people, companies or any other interested party should fight it out in court later. In short, the patent office doesn’t want to take any real responsibility.

    I might add the upper division (the corpocracy ) actually prefers it this way, so change probably isn’t going to happen.
    I think one of the main issues is that the Patent Office cannot do much other than "to grant patents for just about anything". They do not have an adequate system nor anywhere close to the adequate resources required to fully vet every single one of the thousands of patents filed each day. So yes, the courts are left to decide most patent disputes at a later time, mostly by design. I'm not saying it should be this way, but it's the way it’s True, truebeen for a very long time.

    True, the system is designed for the 18th century, and in those days you had to have something that actually worked, and you had to demonstrate it to the examiners, now, however, someone presents an idea, some drawings and equation. You don’t have to demonstrate an actual working device. You just say here’s the application, here’s the fee give me my patent, and the patent office grants it, and then washes their hands, someday someone will actually build a fusion reactor, one that actually works, and they (the company) will be sued by all the idea, equation people from all over the world.

    The Wright brothers went through that process, they built some thing that actually worked on the idea people just had paperwork. Took the Wright brothers years to finally get everything settled and at the end a large number of people in the public, thought they were the bad guys.
    edited May 2023 dewmerezwitsjony0
  • Reply 9 of 17
    carnegiecarnegie Posts: 1,078member
    What the heck is up with this administration???

    this is a PRIVATE SECTOR DISPUTE! 

    Let the justice system play out. It’s not like the Biden family hasn’t been doing much stalling of their own. 

    There is an order and process to things. 

    The Biden admin needs to remember that this is America and not some communist dictatorship. 
    The Supreme Court sometimes, when deciding whether to grant cert and take a particular case, asks the Solicitor General of the U.S. for its view on the matter. This is called a CVSG (Call for the View of the Solicitor General) and typically happens when the Court is being asked to review a lower court's interpretation of a federal law or regulation. That's what happened here. In January the Court asked the Administration (though the SG) for its opinion and two days ago the administration (through the SG) submitted a brief to the Court offering its opinion. That is the order and process to this thing; every administration does this.

    That said, I think the SG is wrong and the Federal Circuit's decision in this case should be reviewed. That decision changed how things previously worked and could have broad implications for invalidity defenses in patent infringement suits. And, although there's considerable nuance to the issue, I think the Federal Circuit's decision is inconsistent with a plain reading of the law in question. Apple and Broadcom, and other similarly situated parties, shouldn't be estopped (in infringement cases) from making invalidity arguments which they didn't raise in IPR petitions, even if their failure to raise such arguments at that stage was intentional. That's not what the law requires. It only bars the making of such arguments (in infringement cases) if they were raised (and rejected) or reasonably could have been raised in actual inter parties reviews rather than petitions asking for IPRs.

    The Federal Circuit had it right before and, despite this recent Federal Circuit panel's claim, nothing in the Supreme Court's SAS Institute decision required it to change course on its interpretation of the law in question.
    edited May 2023 baconstangbestkeptsecretmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 10 of 17
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,879member
    What the heck is up with this administration???

    this is a PRIVATE SECTOR DISPUTE! 

    Let the justice system play out. It’s not like the Biden family hasn’t been doing much stalling of their own. 

    There is an order and process to things. 

    The Biden admin needs to remember that this is America and not some communist dictatorship. 
    Hmm tell that to the dictators in Florida, the SCOTUS and all the red states who getting in between patients and their doctors, banning books, banning free speech, etc. The dictators are inside the house!
    baconstangjony0
  • Reply 11 of 17
    baconstangbaconstang Posts: 1,107member
    How about $1,100,000,000 in App Store credit?
    rezwits
  • Reply 12 of 17
    red oakred oak Posts: 1,088member
    Apple has every right to pursue every legal avenue.  Including asking that the patents to be nullified, which it put forth from the very beginning 

    Why is the Biden administration even commenting on a case that is in the courts?    Bad decision after bad decision.  No wonder Biden’s approval is in the low 40%s

    What a lying, life-long politician, senile moron.  For God’s sake, pick a string Democrat leader to run in 2024 
  • Reply 13 of 17
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,303member
    red oak said:
    Apple has every right to pursue every legal avenue.  Including asking that the patents to be nullified, which it put forth from the very beginning 

    Why is the Biden administration even commenting on a case that is in the courts?    Bad decision after bad decision.  No wonder Biden’s approval is in the low 40%s

    What a lying, life-long politician, senile moron.  For God’s sake, pick a string Democrat leader to run in 2024 

    Point 1: it did not present prior art or present evidence supporting patent invalidations in the original trial.

    Point 2. The Supreme Court often ASKS for the Solicitor General to weigh in, that’s why. You should try reading the article rather than just the headline.

    You can rest assured that in this particular case, the Solicitor General of any previous administration would have come to the same conclusion: Apple can’t try out a new argument when it had evidence of this at the original trial and didn’t use it. This is long-established legal precedent.

    Point 3: I look forward to your presentation of evidence that the Solicitor General is lying, or indeed that the current president has lied about this case.

    Point 4: As evidenced by the previous election, Americans did pick a stronger Democratic candidate over the weaker Republican offering in the last election (and speaking of lying, where was your concern about that before now?).

    You have no evidence that the American people won’t make the same choice again, particularly if the two candidates are the same again.

    You would make a very bad Solicitor General.
    edited May 2023 Hedwaremuthuk_vanalingamchutzpahjony0
  • Reply 14 of 17
    carnegiecarnegie Posts: 1,078member
    chasm said:
    red oak said:
    Apple has every right to pursue every legal avenue.  Including asking that the patents to be nullified, which it put forth from the very beginning 

    Why is the Biden administration even commenting on a case that is in the courts?    Bad decision after bad decision.  No wonder Biden’s approval is in the low 40%s

    What a lying, life-long politician, senile moron.  For God’s sake, pick a string Democrat leader to run in 2024 

    Point 1: it did not present prior art or present evidence supporting patent invalidations in the original trial.

    Point 2. The Supreme Court often ASKS for the Solicitor General to weigh in, that’s why. You should try reading the article rather than just the headline.

    You can rest assured that in this particular case, the Solicitor General of any previous administration would have come to the same conclusion: Apple can’t try out a new argument when it had evidence of this at the original trial and didn’t use it. This is long-established legal precedent.

    Point 3: I look forward to your presentation of evidence that the Solicitor General is lying, or indeed that the current president has lied about this case.

    Point 4: As evidenced by the previous election, Americans did pick a stronger Democratic candidate over the weaker Republican offering in the last election (and speaking of lying, where was your concern about that before now?).

    You have no evidence that the American people won’t make the same choice again, particularly if the two candidates are the same again.

    You would make a very bad Solicitor General.
    To clarify a few things...

    The issue isn't that Apple and Broadcom didn't present prior art evidence at the original trial. The issue is that they weren't allowed to present such evidence and an invalidity argument at the original trial. That's the point of this cert petition to the Supreme Court. The district court judge ruled that they were statutorily estopped from presenting that evidence and making that argument and the Federal Circuit panel upheld that ruling.

    As for what other Solicitors General might have concluded on this particular question, I think that's much in doubt. This recent Federal Circuit ruling, which the current SG agreed with, is inconsistent with a plain reading of the law in question. And it isn't consistent with "long-established legal precedent." To the extent a precedent existed on this particular question, that precedent leaned the other way. Indeed, this Federal Circuit panel, by its own admission, overruled that previous (Federal Circuit) precedent in order to get to its decision on the matter in this case. (I'd note that this panel overruling a previous panel's decision on its own, rather than having an en banc Federal Circuit overrule such previous decision, is in itself a questionable action - especially considering that it effectively admitted that the subsequent Supreme Court decision in SAS Institute didn't actually require it to do so.)

    That said, in fairness to the poster you responded to, the OP didn't point out that the SG was asked for its opinion on this issue - that this wasn't unsolicited commentary from the Administration. Having noted that, I'd agree that there wasn't anything inappropriate about the Administration filing this brief. And it didn't, as the headline suggests, say or suggest that Apple and Broadcom should quit stalling and pay Caltech the $1.1 billion. That would have been inappropriate and, frankly, wouldn't have made any sense.

    For one thing, there is no $1.1 billion judgment to pay. We're waiting on a new trial to determine the amount of the award(s). The Federal Circuit also remanded for a new trial with regard to infringement of one of the three patents-in-suit. The Federal circuit vacated the jury's infringement finding for that patent because the district court hadn't given the jury an instruction as to the proper meaning of a term used in the relevant patent claim.

    In its brief the SG didn't weigh in on this case in general. It, e.g., neither agreed nor disagreed with the infringement findings or the Federal Circuit's remand on the damages award. It only weighed in on the statutory estoppel issue - i.e., whether Apple and Broadcom should have been allowed to make certain invalidity arguments to the district court jury based on what did and didn't happen in the (USPTO) IPR proceedings. The SG believes the Federal Circuit got that issue right and that the Supreme Court doesn't need to review its decision on that matter.
    jony0
  • Reply 15 of 17
    beowulfschmidtbeowulfschmidt Posts: 2,134member
    chasm said:
    You can rest assured that in this particular case, the Solicitor General of any previous administration would have come to the same conclusion: Apple can’t try out a new argument when it had evidence of this at the original trial and didn’t use it. This is long-established legal precedent.
    Exactly.  If Apple was in possession of information pertinent, and beneficial, to their case, and chose to withhold that information for whatever reason, they can't suddenly say "oh wait, what about this" just because they get a ruling they don't like.

  • Reply 16 of 17
    carnegiecarnegie Posts: 1,078member
    chasm said:
    You can rest assured that in this particular case, the Solicitor General of any previous administration would have come to the same conclusion: Apple can’t try out a new argument when it had evidence of this at the original trial and didn’t use it. This is long-established legal precedent.
    Exactly.  If Apple was in possession of information pertinent, and beneficial, to their case, and chose to withhold that information for whatever reason, they can't suddenly say "oh wait, what about this" just because they get a ruling they don't like.

    That's generally true. But it isn't relevant here because it isn't what happened here. The issue here is that Apple and Broadcom weren't allowed to present certain evidence and make certain invalidity arguments in the district court trial. That's what this Supreme Court cert petition is about. The question is, should they have been allowed to make those invalidity arguments?

    There are a number of moving parts and some nuance to this situation. But the basics, as relevant to the estoppel issue, are this: There were two separate sets of proceedings. There was a district court case in which Apple was accused by Caltech of infringement. There were also USPTO PTAB (Patent Trial and Appeal Board) proceedings in which Apple sought to challenge the validity of Caltech's patents.  In the latter proceedings Apple had to first file petitions asking the PTAB to institute IPRs (inter partes reviews) of the patents in question. In filing those petitions Apple had to identify the grounds on which it was asking to be allowed to challenge those patents. If the IPRs were instituted, it wouldn't be allowed - in those reviews - to argue other grounds for invalidity.

    Apple decided not to identify certain possible challenge grounds in its PTAB petitions because it wanted to be able to argue those grounds in the district court infringement case. As the law was understood at the time - and as the law is actually written - a party would only be estopped (i.e. barred) from making certain invalidity arguments in other proceedings (e.g. a district court trial) if those arguments were raised, or reasonably could have been raised, in an actual inter partes review that resulted in a final decision. The Federal Circuit had been clear on this point. The IPR is separate from the petition asking for the IPR. Whether a particular grounds was raised, or reasonably could have been raised, in a petition asking for an IPR is not what matters. Whether it was, or reasonably could have been, in the instituted IPR is what matters. And because Apple chose not to raise certain invalidity grounds in its petitions, it couldn't raise those grounds in the IPRs themselves. Therefore it wasn't - or shouldn't have been based on existing precedent and the law itself - estopped from arguing those grounds in the district court proceedings.

    But despite the clear Federal Circuit precedent, the district court ruled that Apple was statutorily estopped from making certain invalidity arguments to the jury even though it had chosen not to make those arguments in its IPR petitions. Then, among other rulings in the case (some in Apple's favor and some not), a different Federal Circuit panel upheld the district courts ruling and overruled the prior Federal Circuit precedent. In other words, the rules were changed in the middle of the game and Apple - through no fault of its own, as it was following the then clearly established rules - was never allowed to make certain arguments regarding the invalidity of Caltech's patents.

    With the Solicitor General's recommendation that the Supreme Court not review the (new) Federal Circuit decision, it's less likely that the Supreme Court will grant cert and decide the matter itself. More often than not (though not always), when the Court issues a CVSG it follows the advice of the Solicitor General. But I think the Court should grant cert. This decision seems wrong, and at a minimum it represents a significant about face, and it has the potential to affect a lot of patent infringement defendants.
    avon b7danoxjony0
  • Reply 17 of 17
    mikethemartianmikethemartian Posts: 1,321member
    What the heck is up with this administration???

    this is a PRIVATE SECTOR DISPUTE! 

    Let the justice system play out. It’s not like the Biden family hasn’t been doing much stalling of their own. 

    There is an order and process to things. 

    The Biden admin needs to remember that this is America and not some communist dictatorship. 
    The federal government funds a great deal of engineering and science research at major research universities so there is a good chance that Apple and Broadcom’s infringement involved rights the federal funding agency hashed out with the research university.

    A great deal of the tech that companies like Apple benefit from originated with federal research grants to universities. Anyone who feels that is socialism can lobby to stop all government funding of university research and Apple and other commercial companies can pay the universities directly for the research.
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