Apple confirms iOS 17 fix for overheating iPhones is on the way

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 49
    XedXed Posts: 2,472member
    Toortog said:
    They will probably take a page from the IBM OS2 game book.  Apple will dial back performance of their chip to reduce heat on the chip that was suppose to run cooler.  Then like OS2 they will crank up the screen IO to make things appear to the user as still speedy.  I'd say Apple and TSMC has pushed out the 3nm chips before they are ready for prime time. 
    There's zero evidence to back up what you state.
    Alex1NdewmewilliamlondonStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 49
    thttht Posts: 5,354member
    Xed said:
    Kuo sank Apple's stock almost 3% with BS post that jumped to a conclusion about titanium over SS. It makes me wonder who really benefited from his news.
    Well, he did name the company. I don't know if Kuo has personal stakes and whatnot with them, but Kuo explicitly stated that the overheating in the gossip sphere wasn't caused by TSMC's 3nm fab or technology. The impact to Apple's stock may be just collateral damage.

    Kuo threw the titanium design under the bus, but what does he really know about the design and its heat transfer physics? Enough to lie about it? Who knows.

    It is your usual post iPhone introduction controversy cycle. Not sure if it is any better that people are going into stores scratching up cases versus going into stores and bending and breaking phones. Craziness.
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 49
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,781member
    I haven't experienced this at all with my 15 Pro. It did get kinda hot the first day but ever since then never again. Interesting how some are experiencing it and some aren't. 
    edited October 2023 Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 49
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    tht said:
    Xed said:
    Kuo sank Apple's stock almost 3% with BS post that jumped to a conclusion about titanium over SS. It makes me wonder who really benefited from his news.
    Well, he did name the company. I don't know if Kuo has personal stakes and whatnot with them, but Kuo explicitly stated that the overheating in the gossip sphere wasn't caused by TSMC's 3nm fab or technology. The impact to Apple's stock may be just collateral damage.

    Kuo threw the titanium design under the bus, but what does he really know about the design and its heat transfer physics? Enough to lie about it? Who knows.

    It is your usual post iPhone introduction controversy cycle. Not sure if it is any better that people are going into stores scratching up cases versus going into stores and bending and breaking phones. Craziness.
    I doubt he would lie. We’d find out soon enough and his credibility would end and possibly so would his job. He was probably told something by a supplier. That’s his expertise, supplier economics. I don’t know how technically adept he is, though he can’t be ignorant about any of this either.
    FileMakerFellerAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 49
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member

    macxpress said:
    I haven't experienced this at all with my 15 Pro. It did get kinda hot the first day but ever since then never again. Interesting how some are experiencing it and some aren't. 
    I suppose if you don’t have the apps that are causing the problem, or a lot of apps, the problem shouldn’t be noticable.
    FileMakerFellerAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 49
    XedXed Posts: 2,472member
    tht said:
    Xed said:
    Kuo sank Apple's stock almost 3% with BS post that jumped to a conclusion about titanium over SS. It makes me wonder who really benefited from his news.
    Well, he did name the company. I don't know if Kuo has personal stakes and whatnot with them, but Kuo explicitly stated that the overheating in the gossip sphere wasn't caused by TSMC's 3nm fab or technology. The impact to Apple's stock may be just collateral damage.

    Kuo threw the titanium design under the bus, but what does he really know about the design and its heat transfer physics? Enough to lie about it? Who knows.

    It is your usual post iPhone introduction controversy cycle. Not sure if it is any better that people are going into stores scratching up cases versus going into stores and bending and breaking phones. Craziness.
    You can't really call it "collateral damage" while also saying that he threw Apple "under the bus" without evidence to support his baseless claim. If it was not done to short Apple's stock (seems like a less likely scenario to me), but it was done using poor reasoning by thinking "Apple moved to from SS to titanium so that must be the reason" (seems more likely to me). We'll see if he addresses It this week.
    FileMakerFellerAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 49
    Hands-on experience shows that iphone 15 is not actually faster than iphone 14 if it’s not over-clocked. But over-clocking means heat, excessively. After the launching hype, just turning off over-clocking, temperature returns to normal and so called “fixed”. 
    It’s not overclocked when it’s designed to operate at that speed. 

    At 3nm, there’s plenty of overhead. 

    Software bugs and malicious code can and do drive CPUs crazy regardless of how well designed. 
    “overclock” is just a layman’s metaphor.  But it’s a traditional wisdom that the smaller the chip, the lesser the heat. Not the opposite.
  • Reply 28 of 49
    Toortog said:
    They will probably take a page from the IBM OS2 game book.  Apple will dial back performance of their chip to reduce heat on the chip that was suppose to run cooler.  Then like OS2 they will crank up the screen IO to make things appear to the user as still speedy.  I'd say Apple and TSMC has pushed out the 3nm chips before they are ready for prime time. 
    Did you even bother reading the article or did you jump straight to shitposting. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 49
    jeromecjeromec Posts: 187member
    I have had serious overheating issues with iOS 17 betas on an iPhone XS Max.
    They do not seem to have totally gone away with the release version of iOS 17.

    So IMHO it might be more of on iOS 17 problem than an iPhone 17 Pro/ A17 Pro problem.
    williamlondonmacplusplusAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 49
    So you’d think a company as big as Apple would have tested for heat issues before releasing product.  They should certainly be able to test a new phone, running ios17 using the top 10 apps that people run. They loose lots of credibility with post release bug fixes.  Though the Silicon Valley way is to ship the shit and fix it later.  The bigger problem is if it’s a hardware design related problem and they need to de-tune the performance levels to get the temperature down. Of course, Apple could never admit there was a design flaw b
    williamlondon
  • Reply 31 of 49
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    Xed said:
    Kuo sank Apple's stock almost 3% with BS post that jumped to a conclusion about titanium over SS. It makes me wonder who really benefited from his news.
    Hasn't Apple stock pricing, along with the rest of the market, been on a generally downhill slide for a few weeks? Why yes it has. Titanium over stainless is unlikely to have any effect on the prices IMHO.  It's more obviously things beyond Apple control.
    Alex1N
  • Reply 32 of 49
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,265member
    y2an said:
    Why is iOS not taking action on excessive energy use by apps and giving warnings, or slowing them down? That is, after all, why we have operating systems. 

    That is an interesting question, but as far as I know, there is no process level or thread level energy/CPU load limits built into iOS (and iPadOS and macOS), or any other general purpose operating systems that I am aware of. There are specialized embedded operating systems that do energy monitoring and apply throttling or preemption as necessary to ensure that critical system functions are maintained while ancillary ones are preempted/deferred until additional energy is available. For example, a solar recharged battery powered remote telemetry device may cache data readings locally but only upload them to the remote monitoring site when there is sufficient energy available to run the communication devices, e.g., cellular modem and radio, without losing the data collection function. 

    General purpose operating systems like iOS are built around a shared preemptive multitasking scheduler model. The scheduler only has as many CPU cores and hyper-threading (HT) logic available to it as the system provides. Obviously there are always many more processes/threads that are ready to run than there are available cores and  HT logic. Additionally, there are some processes/threads that need to run more often to maintain the systems state, manage memory, manage interrupts, manage IO, interact with sensors, interact with the user, etc. Simply put, the operating system is providing an illusion that every process and app is running in its own dedicated machine with its own memory, storage, CPU, IO, user interface, etc., when in fact the system's hardware resources are time-shared (unequally) between every process and thread running on the real machine. The scheduler determines who gets to run at any given time.

    All processes/threads, both in the kernel and in user mode, get an opportunity to request the priority that they want to be scheduled. If all threads asked for the same priority and if every thread was always ready to run every time the scheduler came around to hand off a core to another thread, and if every thread used their full time quota, all processes/threads would get an equal share of the core/cpu. But that would be disastrous. Things that are critical to maintaining the system state, like pretty much everything done in the kernel, need to run much more often. Thus, the need for priorities and why things that are critical to maintaining the system state (kernel functions) get the highest priority when it comes to running.

    User mode processes, i.e., Apps we install, must also specify directly or by default the priority for all of the threads they create. How many threads do Apps create? It may be only a few, but it could be hundreds or more. Unfortunately there is no Activity Monitor on iOS, but on the Mac that I'm typing this on the kernel has 647 threads right now, Google Drive has 102 threads, and Firefox has 82 threads, as an example. The scheduler is responsible for making sure all of the threads that are ready to run are given cpu/core time. Of course the highest priority threads get a lot more cpu/core time, but the operating system also has starvation prevention algorithms to ensure even low priority threads do get some time in the cpu/core even when higher priority threads are ready to run. The "ready to run" point is important. Not all threads that exist are ready to run. These threads are often waiting on some event, signal, interrupt, etc., before they are ready to run. If a thread isn't ready to run it does not get scheduled.

    The Apps that we deal with, like Instagram, run in user mode and at a lower priority than kernel threads. All running Apps compete for core/cpu time against one another as well as the kernel threads. As long as the system has plenty of cores and not too many ready to run threads (varies by hardware capabilities) everyone is happy and the system is likely spending the bulk of its time idling. However, each App creator gets to set the priority of the threads they create and even the core to run inside. In some cases the App creator has determined through testing that their App runs better/faster/more responsively if some of their threads are run at a non-default higher priority. This changes the scheduling behavior on the machine and potentially reduces idle time so the CPU has to run at higher utilization levels, increasing heat.

    Jacking up the thread priorities in your App, or asking that your thread runs on a specific core, may result in other Apps running more slowly, or put more load on the CPU. But priority jacking isn't the only way to put more load on the CPU. Some developers are uncomfortable with multi-threading because it is hard to deal with concurrency issues, synchronization, mutual exclusion, locking. blocking, waiting, thread lifetime management, etc. So rather than using thread synchronization to provide a way to block while waiting on an event or signal, like an IO input or asynchronous response, they will use a high priority thread as a polling mechanism to constantly check for whatever it is they're waiting for. Polling always increases CPU utilization.

    Finally, why should we worry what Apps are doing in user mode space when the kernel is always a higher priority? Because operating system APIs (directly or indirectly) result in kernel level threads being created to service the user mode requests. This means that "badly behaved" (from an energy consumption perspective) user mode Apps can still result in the kernel having to schedule additional kernel threads to run and place more load on the overall system. As far as I know, the iOS kernel does not intervene in any way to ensure that Apps do not place excessive demands on the system. It will intervene when the "bad behavior" causes system issues like overheating. That's not to say that it couldn't intervene, but doing so would require cooperation from the Apps and the thread creation process, for example, providing a thread attribute that tells the operating system that the thread's priority can be reduced under certain system conditions.
    edited October 2023 FileMakerFellerAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 49
    bulk001bulk001 Posts: 745member
    melgross said:
    tht said:
    Xed said:
    Kuo sank Apple's stock almost 3% with BS post that jumped to a conclusion about titanium over SS. It makes me wonder who really benefited from his news.
    Well, he did name the company. I don't know if Kuo has personal stakes and whatnot with them, but Kuo explicitly stated that the overheating in the gossip sphere wasn't caused by TSMC's 3nm fab or technology. The impact to Apple's stock may be just collateral damage.

    Kuo threw the titanium design under the bus, but what does he really know about the design and its heat transfer physics? Enough to lie about it? Who knows.

    It is your usual post iPhone introduction controversy cycle. Not sure if it is any better that people are going into stores scratching up cases versus going into stores and bending and breaking phones. Craziness.
    I doubt he would lie. We’d find out soon enough and his credibility would end and possibly so would his job. He was probably told something by a supplier. That’s his expertise, supplier economics. I don’t know how technically adept he is, though he can’t be ignorant about any of this either.
    This does raise the question about how rumors can have a real world effect, in this case on shareholders. Not sure where journalism stops and speculation starts with people like Kuo and what recourse a company or maybe their shareholders have to litigate information that is shared with no basis in actual facts. 
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 49
    thttht Posts: 5,354member
    kellie said:
    So you’d think a company as big as Apple would have tested for heat issues before releasing product.  They should certainly be able to test a new phone, running ios17 using the top 10 apps that people run. They loose lots of credibility with post release bug fixes.  Though the Silicon Valley way is to ship the shit and fix it later.  The bigger problem is if it’s a hardware design related problem and they need to de-tune the performance levels to get the temperature down. Of course, Apple could never admit there was a design flaw b
    They test and QA every software and hardware release. They do it more thoroughly than every OEM out there. It's a consequence of their business and the size of their installed base.

    Bug-free software has never been achieved on any meaningfully complex code-base. So, what you think is possible isn't. For Apple, they have multiple concurrent things going on up to new iPhone releases every September. When you think about it, it really is quite impressive.

    The os software on new iPhones was frozen about a month ago. Inside this software, there are likely hundreds of software fixes to hardware issues that pop up when a new iPhone model first starts mass production. Hundreds. The mind boggles at the complexity of an iPhone.

    Apple also is shipping a major new os version that's going to be installed on a billion device installed base. It's only been a 3 month public testing cycle. That's really only enough time to get it working with the critical features. Many features have to be pushed back. It really does take about 6 months to 9 months to get every new feature working, working well, with only a few bugs.

    Concurrent with this are developers who are also feverishly working on their app updates, implemented many of Apple's new os features as well as their on. These apps are worked on and released the day the new os platform is released. They themselves have bugs, and also work around the platform's bugs.

    It's amazing that this all works as smoothly as it does.
    williamlondondewmeFileMakerFellerAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 49
    thttht Posts: 5,354member
    Xed said:
    tht said:
    Xed said:
    Kuo sank Apple's stock almost 3% with BS post that jumped to a conclusion about titanium over SS. It makes me wonder who really benefited from his news.
    Well, he did name the company. I don't know if Kuo has personal stakes and whatnot with them, but Kuo explicitly stated that the overheating in the gossip sphere wasn't caused by TSMC's 3nm fab or technology. The impact to Apple's stock may be just collateral damage.

    Kuo threw the titanium design under the bus, but what does he really know about the design and its heat transfer physics? Enough to lie about it? Who knows.

    It is your usual post iPhone introduction controversy cycle. Not sure if it is any better that people are going into stores scratching up cases versus going into stores and bending and breaking phones. Craziness.
    You can't really call it "collateral damage" while also saying that he threw Apple "under the bus" without evidence to support his baseless claim. If it was not done to short Apple's stock (seems like a less likely scenario to me), but it was done using poor reasoning by thinking "Apple moved to from SS to titanium so that must be the reason" (seems more likely to me). We'll see if he addresses It this week.
    I would be surprised if he says anything about it. All the rumormongers have the same playbook: make a lot of predictions; if something is mispredicted say that Apple had problems not that their prediction was wrong; never mention getting anything wrong; always mention getting something right. It's basically a light version of being con-man. They don't have to do this consciously either. It could just as easily be a consequence of what drives success or failure among a cohort of people.

    I was thinking poor reasoning for his statements. It doesn't take much to lose sight of common sense.
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 49
    XedXed Posts: 2,472member
    gatorguy said:
    Xed said:
    Kuo sank Apple's stock almost 3% with BS post that jumped to a conclusion about titanium over SS. It makes me wonder who really benefited from his news.
    Hasn't Apple stock pricing, along with the rest of the market, been on a generally downhill slide for a few weeks? Why yes it has. Titanium over stainless is unlikely to have any effect on the prices IMHO.  It's more obviously things beyond Apple control.
    I don’t know if It’s unlikely, but I do recant my previous comment. I can’t say with any certainty that the stock fell because of Kip’s comment. That’s poor reasoning just like Kuo’s statement about the titanium.
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 49
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,265member
    kpom said:
    It’s good to get an official response. It sounds like the fix won’t affect performance. 
    What is this assertion based on? If an app or system service was effectively “misbehaving” by overloading the system in a way that caused overheating the remedy could very well cause the misbehaving app or service to see a decrease in performance, at least under some circumstances. On the other hand, if the overheating was causing the system to throttle then the sustained performance could be improved. 

    Until Apple and possibly misbehaving apps deliver fixes we will not know what, if any, performance changes will occur. I suspect it will be minimal either way because the overheating was not universal.
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 49
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    kellie said:
    So you’d think a company as big as Apple would have tested for heat issues before releasing product.  They should certainly be able to test a new phone, running ios17 using the top 10 apps that people run. They loose lots of credibility with post release bug fixes.  Though the Silicon Valley way is to ship the shit and fix it later.  The bigger problem is if it’s a hardware design related problem and they need to de-tune the performance levels to get the temperature down. Of course, Apple could never admit there was a design flaw b
    This happens to every company. They test hundreds of these. But when hundreds of thousands of people or people who are testing it, conditions are different. Lots of problems are software related. Every time Apple issues a point upgrade to macOS, my raid software won’t work, so I have to wait until OWC has their update. That’s just the way it is. With mobile devices, it’s the battery and heat that get the problem. Apple knows the lroblem and will fit it shortly.

    you know, people don’t have to act as though they know what’s going in and that it’s terrible. No phones that we know if gave stopped working, gotten damaged kr otherwise had problems. It’s a bit hot, that’s it. Let’s not make more of this than it’s worth. When this happens to other companies, it’s hardly worth more than a line of notice, everyone shrugs and forget it. It’s only when it happens to Apple that people pretend it’s a big deal.

    its not.
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 49
    thttht Posts: 5,354member
    dewme said:
    kpom said:
    It’s good to get an official response. It sounds like the fix won’t affect performance. 
    What is this assertion based on? If an app or system service was effectively “misbehaving” by overloading the system in a way that caused overheating the remedy could very well cause the misbehaving app or service to see a decrease in performance, at least under some circumstances. On the other hand, if the overheating was causing the system to throttle then the sustained performance could be improved. 

    Until Apple and possibly misbehaving apps deliver fixes we will not know what, if any, performance changes will occur. I suspect it will be minimal either way because the overheating was not universal.
    Computer programming has an unlimited space for making code that have the CPU and GPU going 100% essentially doing nothing. 
    edited October 2023 FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 49
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member

    bulk001 said:
    melgross said:
    tht said:
    Xed said:
    Kuo sank Apple's stock almost 3% with BS post that jumped to a conclusion about titanium over SS. It makes me wonder who really benefited from his news.
    Well, he did name the company. I don't know if Kuo has personal stakes and whatnot with them, but Kuo explicitly stated that the overheating in the gossip sphere wasn't caused by TSMC's 3nm fab or technology. The impact to Apple's stock may be just collateral damage.

    Kuo threw the titanium design under the bus, but what does he really know about the design and its heat transfer physics? Enough to lie about it? Who knows.

    It is your usual post iPhone introduction controversy cycle. Not sure if it is any better that people are going into stores scratching up cases versus going into stores and bending and breaking phones. Craziness.
    I doubt he would lie. We’d find out soon enough and his credibility would end and possibly so would his job. He was probably told something by a supplier. That’s his expertise, supplier economics. I don’t know how technically adept he is, though he can’t be ignorant about any of this either.
    This does raise the question about how rumors can have a real world effect, in this case on shareholders. Not sure where journalism stops and speculation starts with people like Kuo and what recourse a company or maybe their shareholders have to litigate information that is shared with no basis in actual facts. 
    In my experience with them (more than I’d like!) finance people are like children. They get excited over every tiny issue. Then they forget it soon after. They think minor things are major and that major things are minor. They have little understand of anything regarding companies and how they work other than the surface financial issues.

    so some shareholders, particularly day traders, generally an ignorant bunch, get upset at every little thing. They don’t think beyond what they just heard and aren’t prepared to evaluate it. I agree with ?cramer, buy Apple and hold it. Ignore the issues that come up. I’ve been doing the for decades and it’s stood me well.
    FileMakerFellerAlex1Nwatto_cobra
Sign In or Register to comment.