Yep, Apple’s gonna buy Nvidia AI servers, when they have everything in house to build their own and learn more from the experience, Nvidia, Intel, and AMD servers are barn burners. I don’t think Apple will go down that path not at that wattage when then can build their own without the need for additional coolant fluid.
Yep, Apple’s gonna buy Nvidia AI servers, when they have everything in house to build their own and learn more from the experience, Nvidia, Intel, and AMD servers are barn burners. I don’t think Apple will go down that path not at that wattage when then can build their own without the need for additional coolant fluid.
Good grief. Let me tell you this: Apple is a consumer products company. Apple doesn't even have a workstation chip good enough to compete with the latest Intel Xeon W, which itself (by Intel's admission) can't compete with the latest 96 core 192 thread AMD Threadripper workstation chip. So where on earth are they going to get a server class chip design? Before you answer, Apple Silicon doesn't have anywhere close to the single core performance of an x86 server or even a generic ARM Neoverse V2 or V1 server (maybe a Neoverse N1/N2). As for multicore, Nvidia Grace chips have 144 cores. In 1Q2024 Intel Sierra Forest will have 196 cores. And that is CPU. Where on earth is Apple going to get the parallel processing power from? (AI/ML uses GPUs as parallel processors.) The M2 Ultra only provides raw performance - no we aren't talking about the hardware accelerators that are just good for video, audio and photo processing - equivalent to a midrange Nvidia card that you can pick up off the shelf at a retail store. Comparing it to an Nvidia Hopper data center GPU or the competing products that AMD has and Intel is trying to make is hilarious. And that is the hardware. Where are the software tools going to come from? You know, like Nvidia CUDA, AMD ROCm or even Intel's DPC++?
You are aware that Apple doesn't use their own chips for their data centers, right? They use Intel Xeons - with some AMD Epyc - just like everybody else, and those servers run Linux, not macOS or some Apple home-grown server OS, like everybody else. Apple loves to talk about how their data centers run on green energy, but the tech that they use in them? Not so much. Just as they don't like to talk about how much they rely on Amazon AWS (plus some Google Cloud Platform for redundancy and data analytics) to deliver iCloud and their other cloud products. It would demystify everything I guess.
So just like Apple was unable to design a 5G modem as good as Qualcomm's - and they aren't even starting from scratch because they bought Intel's 5G division way back in 2019, they just reupped with Qualcomm through 2026 so we are talking about at least 7 years here meaning that they will finally have 5G done for 2027 right about the time that the industry is going to start shifting to 6G (testing begins in 2028 and commercial release in 2030) - they won't be able to snap their fingers and create their own genAI server stack at the drop of a hat either.
But, please, tell me more about everyone else’s insurmountable lead.
No one has a insurmountable lead but in today’s climate you want to be a vertical computer company, software and hardware under one roof…
Being a vertical company haven't made Pages / Number / Keynote better than MS Office or Google Workspace. Neither made iCloud a better service than Google or MS services, neither made Siri a better assistant, even though Apple was ahead of the competition. Apple has done an excellent work with hardware, but software is a different story. They have their hits with macOS and iOS, but at the same time have iCloud, Pages / Numbers / Keynote and Siri, that are behind the competition. We'll to wait and see what they do with AI.
1) Are "iWork" apps suppose to be as advanced/convoluted as MS Office? I don't think that's Apple's goal. While I have Office for Mac installed and have to use Office at work, at home I use Pages and Numbers because they do the job I need them to do as a consumer. I use Numbers daily and Pages frequently. If I needed the complex option of Excel I'd use that, and likely on a WinPC because I don't think the Mac version has all the Windows features—but I don't, and most people don't. Apple's apps are a much better experience. Google's offerings gets the job done like "iWork" apps but it's clunky even after all these years.
2) iCloud is a great service for syncing "iDevices" and Macs. There are many features that OneDrive, Google Drive, and Dropbox don't begin to offer as comparable features. I use OneDrive/SharePoint daily at work and can't stand it but we're all MS services so I make it work. Google Drive is OK, but again not a great solution for Apple users. Dropbox is still my favorite for 3rd-party file sharing. If I have one complaint about iCloud it's that damn 5 GB free tier which is excessively paltry.
3) Apple hasn't done excellent work with software? You don't think their OSes are any good? You know that OSes are SW, right? Or their (practicely) seamless integration of services and features for Messages?
4) Object permanence involves understanding that items and people still exist even when you can't see or hear them. That also means that just because you aren't seeing Tim Cook go on the Today Show to talk about and demo their AI development doesn't mean they aren't nor haven't been working on it. Hardly anyone knew about ChatGPT until they launched a user-facing demo earlier this year, but that doesn't mean that ChatGPT didn't exist or that their efforts weren't worthwhile the day before you knew about it. And since Apple has a long history of not falling for "me too" and "me first" knee-jerk reactions by not even announcing a product or service, you should not assume that you're lack of knowledge on the interworking of a company means that they have nothing worthwhile.
Yep, Apple’s gonna buy Nvidia AI servers, when they have everything in house to build their own and learn more from the experience, Nvidia, Intel, and AMD servers are barn burners. I don’t think Apple will go down that path not at that wattage when then can build their own without the need for additional coolant fluid.
But, please, tell me more about everyone else’s insurmountable lead.
No one has a insurmountable lead but in today’s climate you want to be a vertical computer company, software and hardware under one roof…
Being a vertical company haven't made Pages / Number / Keynote better than MS Office or Google Workspace. Neither made iCloud a better service than Google or MS services, neither made Siri a better assistant, even though Apple was ahead of the competition. Apple has done an excellent work with hardware, but software is a different story. They have their hits with macOS and iOS, but at the same time have iCloud, Pages / Numbers / Keynote and Siri, that are behind the competition. We'll to wait and see what they do with AI.
In the Microsoft menagerie of programs the only thing that’s any good is Microsoft Excel, I learned long time ago in college if I wanted a better looking functional document, just use Adobe InDesign, or Quark with their page layout/editor even Pages does a better job with word layout and graphics than Microsoft Word or Google Docs, and these days there are so many other great programs that deal with word manipulation, why would I use programs from Google a company that is mining data 24/7? Notability, Keynote, Pages, Canva, Goodnotes, Morpholio Trace, Notes, Procreate, CollaNote, OmniOutliner, anything from Adobe, Quark, and Affinity if you have to deal with graphics, layout, or web design.
What’s gonna be fun next year is watching the release of the Apple Vision Pro and seeing native small to medium sized companies, releasing programs which will show what it means being a vertical computer company (Apple) that is able to create new ecosystems is all about, and Googles, or Microsoft only response, in that new Apple ecosystem is to flood the market with their existing parasitic reduced feature (in comparison to what’s on their platform) from their existing ecosystems.
At the college level these days, it’s a new world if you use a Apple Mac computer or an iPad Pro the number of very good programs for taking notes, writing essays term, papers, or technical papers, and that vertical computer platform created by Apple allows many people to excel away from the plug and have long battery life in the process that’s what a vertical computer company does gives you the power to design beyond that barn burning must be plugged into a wall Microsoft computer.
Being a vertical computer company, also helps to include things like LiDAR into every iPhone and iPad Pro made in the last four years, and that inclusion of LiDAR will become all the more apparent with the release of the Apple Vision Pro only a vertical computer company can do that.
P.S. Apple isn’t the company camping out in the ecosystems of Google and Microsoft they don’t need to, nor are they paying either of them $20 billion a year for a default position within their vertical computer ecosystem…. the benefits are all Apple I don’t think Apple is behind. They’re just on the different path that doesn’t involve burning down the barn, the ecosystem squatters in this game is Microsoft and Google.
I agree that the lists of apps you mentioned are better options than MS Word when dealing with graphics or web design. But at the end, MS Word was not designed for that type of content, neither all users deal with that type of content in a daily basis. For example, an accountant or financial analyst will have a better experience with MS Word than any app you listed, especially when you consider the integration it has with other apps in the MS 365 ecosystem, like Excel and PowerBI. And now MS Office got better with CoPilot, with is something the competition like Apple don't have (at least for now).
Regarding Google data mining, I suppose isn't that bad, considering Apple trust them and gave them access to all of their customer by making Google Search the default engine for all of their devices.
I agree that college students benefit from the efficiency of Apple devices. At the same time, Windows devices have some advantages like better GPU's from Nvidia and AMD. Windows also have the best 2-in-1 device with the Surface Pro. At the end, both companies have their strong and weak points.
We'll have to wait and see how customers react to the Apple Vision Pro. It could be as strong as the iPhone / iPad or below average as the HomePod. What I'm sure is that customer expect "parasitic" apps from MS and Google to make it useful.
On your P.S., I agree that Apple have a very strong ecosystem, but they are not the only one with an ecosystem. MS have a better ecosystem for business and enterprises. No other company, including Apple, are even close to them. They also have a very strong presence in gaming. Google have a very strong ecosystem with their cloud services and Android. And from what I'm seeing, most Apple customers use Google and MS services over Apple services. I think the same thing will happen with the Apple Vision Pro.
But, please, tell me more about everyone else’s insurmountable lead.
No one has a insurmountable lead but in today’s climate you want to be a vertical computer company, software and hardware under one roof…
Being a vertical company haven't made Pages / Number / Keynote better than MS Office or Google Workspace. Neither made iCloud a better service than Google or MS services, neither made Siri a better assistant, even though Apple was ahead of the competition. Apple has done an excellent work with hardware, but software is a different story. They have their hits with macOS and iOS, but at the same time have iCloud, Pages / Numbers / Keynote and Siri, that are behind the competition. We'll to wait and see what they do with AI.
1) Are "iWork" apps suppose to be as advanced/convoluted as MS Office? I don't think that's Apple's goal. While I have Office for Mac installed and have to use Office at work, at home I use Pages and Numbers because they do the job I need them to do as a consumer. I use Numbers daily and Pages frequently. If I needed the complex option of Excel I'd use that, and likely on a WinPC because I don't think the Mac version has all the Windows features—but I don't, and most people don't. Apple's apps are a much better experience. Google's offerings gets the job done like "iWork" apps but it's clunky even after all these years.
2) iCloud is a great service for syncing "iDevices" and Macs. There are many features that OneDrive, Google Drive, and Dropbox don't begin to offer as comparable features. I use OneDrive/SharePoint daily at work and can't stand it but we're all MS services so I make it work. Google Drive is OK, but again not a great solution for Apple users. Dropbox is still my favorite for 3rd-party file sharing. If I have one complaint about iCloud it's that damn 5 GB free tier which is excessively paltry.
3) Apple hasn't done excellent work with software? You don't think their OSes are any good? You know that OSes are SW, right? Or their (practicely) seamless integration of services and features for Messages?
4) Object permanence involves understanding that items and people still exist even when you can't see or hear them. That also means that just because you aren't seeing Tim Cook go on the Today Show to talk about and demo their AI development doesn't mean they aren't nor haven't been working on it. Hardly anyone knew about ChatGPT until they launched a user-facing demo earlier this year, but that doesn't mean that ChatGPT didn't exist or that their efforts weren't worthwhile the day before you knew about it. And since Apple has a long history of not falling for "me too" and "me first" knee-jerk reactions by not even announcing a product or service, you should not assume that you're lack of knowledge on the interworking of a company means that they have nothing worthwhile.
"iWork" apps are very simple, and that could be good for a line of customers. But "simple" could mean "limited" for others. At least you can use MS Office for simple task and for advanced tasks. It also integrates to the MS 365 ecosystem, with is miles ahead of what Apple offers.
I use OneDrive to sync my files with Windows and Macs, and at the moment works very nice, although. is not perfect. iCloud could be a nice option for some customers. But from what I have seen, people still prefer Google and MS storage services over what Apple offers.
Yes, I know operating systems are software. That's the reason I said in my comment "They have their hits with macOS and iOS..."
I agree with you. For that reason, I said in my comment "We'll have to wait and see what they do with AI."
You have to think about how Apple would monetise this, even if the short term is pure investment. Unlike the other players, Apple doesn’t sell their services. And so far their direction has been heightened privacy and pushing increasing amounts of tasks to the device (so the user pays by way of device purchase). I would hypothesise that anything Apple develops large scale will migrate in stages to devices implying that they will want architectural compatibility between DC services and devices. So, their own silicon running common software built in Xcode. If they’re building a DC it will be for R&D with the output being mostly products in customer hands.
My question is whose AI training chips are they going to use? Are they going to adapt from currently existed chips, design a new series, or simply purchasing from NVIDIA?
Nvidia hopes/plans that you will be buying those barn burning chips/systems from them, of course you’ll have to do all of the real integration into your operating system/server farm depending on how you wanna work it, as long as you paid them and the power company they don’t care.
That's the fourth instance of "barn burner" you've used incorrectly. You should look it up before your next post.
Did everyone here forget Apple’s multi billion dollar component deal with AVGO Broadcom?
Who is the second
largest Al chip company in the world in terms of revenue behind NVIDIA, with multiple billions of dollars of AI accelerator sales. Working with Google helping design their custom AI TPU chips. Although the multi billion dollar component deal with Apple is mainly meant to manufacture 5g components for iPhones. There is no telling if Apple will decide to deploy a custom AI chip following google’s footsteps. Doing so would lead them to Broadcom not nvidia. Broadcom and Apple have years of history together. This is the only candidate I can think of that has the next best shot after Nvidia if Apple doesn’t want to fork over a premium and make chips in house like their M1 processors. Obviously nvidia has a lead in the AI front with their software, but doesn’t stop others from trying. I believe Apple will pull a Google and design in house AI chips and buy a couple nvidia servers while they’re at it.
My question is whose AI training chips are they going to use? Are they going to adapt from currently existed chips, design a new series, or simply purchasing from NVIDIA?
Apple could buy Nvidia, for its current value of $1 Billion.
LOL — You missed several zeros, genius.
Actually, that was a typo. I did check the market cap before I wrote that and knew exactly how much they were worth. When I wrote those words, I was fully aware Nvidia was worth $1.03 Trillion. I just typed "B" by pure accident. Sorry.
Comments
You are aware that Apple doesn't use their own chips for their data centers, right? They use Intel Xeons - with some AMD Epyc - just like everybody else, and those servers run Linux, not macOS or some Apple home-grown server OS, like everybody else. Apple loves to talk about how their data centers run on green energy, but the tech that they use in them? Not so much. Just as they don't like to talk about how much they rely on Amazon AWS (plus some Google Cloud Platform for redundancy and data analytics) to deliver iCloud and their other cloud products. It would demystify everything I guess.
So just like Apple was unable to design a 5G modem as good as Qualcomm's - and they aren't even starting from scratch because they bought Intel's 5G division way back in 2019, they just reupped with Qualcomm through 2026 so we are talking about at least 7 years here meaning that they will finally have 5G done for 2027 right about the time that the industry is going to start shifting to 6G (testing begins in 2028 and commercial release in 2030) - they won't be able to snap their fingers and create their own genAI server stack at the drop of a hat either.
2) iCloud is a great service for syncing "iDevices" and Macs. There are many features that OneDrive, Google Drive, and Dropbox don't begin to offer as comparable features. I use OneDrive/SharePoint daily at work and can't stand it but we're all MS services so I make it work. Google Drive is OK, but again not a great solution for Apple users. Dropbox is still my favorite for 3rd-party file sharing. If I have one complaint about iCloud it's that damn 5 GB free tier which is excessively paltry.
3) Apple hasn't done excellent work with software? You don't think their OSes are any good? You know that OSes are SW, right? Or their (practicely) seamless integration of services and features for Messages?
4) Object permanence involves understanding that items and people still exist even when you can't see or hear them. That also means that just because you aren't seeing Tim Cook go on the Today Show to talk about and demo their AI development doesn't mean they aren't nor haven't been working on it. Hardly anyone knew about ChatGPT until they launched a user-facing demo earlier this year, but that doesn't mean that ChatGPT didn't exist or that their efforts weren't worthwhile the day before you knew about it. And since Apple has a long history of not falling for "me too" and "me first" knee-jerk reactions by not even announcing a product or service, you should not assume that you're lack of knowledge on the interworking of a company means that they have nothing worthwhile.
They've been including that for a many years. ML and NPU are part of AI umbrella so I don't foresee a dedicated AI chip.
I agree that college students benefit from the efficiency of Apple devices. At the same time, Windows devices have some advantages like better GPU's from Nvidia and AMD. Windows also have the best 2-in-1 device with the Surface Pro. At the end, both companies have their strong and weak points.
We'll have to wait and see how customers react to the Apple Vision Pro. It could be as strong as the iPhone / iPad or below average as the HomePod. What I'm sure is that customer expect "parasitic" apps from MS and Google to make it useful.
On your P.S., I agree that Apple have a very strong ecosystem, but they are not the only one with an ecosystem. MS have a better ecosystem for business and enterprises. No other company, including Apple, are even close to them. They also have a very strong presence in gaming. Google have a very strong ecosystem with their cloud services and Android. And from what I'm seeing, most Apple customers use Google and MS services over Apple services. I think the same thing will happen with the Apple Vision Pro.
That's the fourth instance of "barn burner" you've used incorrectly. You should look it up before your next post.