Google now tries getting EU to force open iMessage

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    kmareikmarei Posts: 172member
    Google has BBE
    blue bubble envy :)
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 38
    XedXed Posts: 2,457member
    kmarei said:
    Google has BBE
    blue bubble envy :)
    Blue balls for the blue bubble, I'd say.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 38
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,525member
    kmarei said:
    Google has BBE
    blue bubble envy :)
    Not sure why they'd lobby the EU to change it, though — literally nobody gives a shit about the blue bubbles in the EU. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 24 of 38
    Google seems desperate 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,084member
    spheric said:
    kmarei said:
    Google has BBE
    blue bubble envy :)
    Not sure why they'd lobby the EU to change it, though — literally nobody gives a shit about the blue bubbles in the EU. 
    It never had anything to do with the color of bubbles beyond it being a visual indicator of a difference.

    If you send a message from your iPhone to an Android user they don't see a blue bubble, will have no visual clue the message came from an iPhone, and might well have no idea what all the blue bubble ruckus is because they've never seen it unless they have some iPhone owning friend who shows them. 

    Pinning it all on a blue bubble is just an effort at being dismissive, "it's all just a juvenile vanity thing", instead of negatively effecting messaging services' continuity, security, and privacy.
    edited November 2023 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 26 of 38
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,525member
    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:
    kmarei said:
    Google has BBE
    blue bubble envy :)
    Not sure why they'd lobby the EU to change it, though — literally nobody gives a shit about the blue bubbles in the EU. 
    It never had anything to do with the color of bubbles beyond it being a visual indicator of a difference.

    If you send a message from your iPhone to an Android user they don't see a blue bubble, will have no visual clue the message came from an iPhone, and might well have no idea what all the blue bubble ruckus is because they've never seen it unless they have some iPhone owning friend who shows them. 

    Pinning it all on a blue bubble is just an effort at being dismissive, "it's all just a juvenile vanity thing", instead of negatively effecting messaging services' continuity, security, and privacy.
    No, that's the European perspective. In America, where iOS has by far the majority usage share, it's a different matter. 

    I just find it curious that they're apparently playing that angle in a jurisdiction where it's completely irrelevant. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,084member
    spheric said:
    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:
    kmarei said:
    Google has BBE
    blue bubble envy :)
    Not sure why they'd lobby the EU to change it, though — literally nobody gives a shit about the blue bubbles in the EU. 
    It never had anything to do with the color of bubbles beyond it being a visual indicator of a difference.

    If you send a message from your iPhone to an Android user they don't see a blue bubble, will have no visual clue the message came from an iPhone, and might well have no idea what all the blue bubble ruckus is because they've never seen it unless they have some iPhone owning friend who shows them. 

    Pinning it all on a blue bubble is just an effort at being dismissive, "it's all just a juvenile vanity thing", instead of negatively effecting messaging services' continuity, security, and privacy.
    No, that's the European perspective. In America, where iOS has by far the majority usage share, it's a different matter. 

    I just find it curious that they're apparently playing that angle in a jurisdiction where it's completely irrelevant. 
    Try seeing it from a different perspective...

    When Android users converse with each other in Google Messages, their texts and shared media can be both private and highly secure due to E2EE RCS. That all changes when an iPhone enters the room.

    Once your iPhone's Apple Messages, AKA iMessage, joins the conversation, the discussion is compromised: No longer secure, no longer protected from eavesdropping, no longer encrypted as it travels between the devices used in the conversation. Because of an iPhone user the security, privacy, and continuity is thrown out the window. 

    It's for that reason that E2EE interoperability between messaging services is essential if we are to discuss things in private, no governments or cell carriers listening in. 
    The EU is doing a good thing IMHO, and MLS Protocol RFC 9420 will enable it. 
    edited November 2023
  • Reply 28 of 38
    I'm in that strange camp of having a Mac and an Android Phone (yes, both by choice).  All I want is End-to-End Encryption across all platforms, be it iMessage, Google Message, or a Third Party app.  Being in the United States, our society prefers the "out of the box" app.  I'm not warm to Google's practices, but I do like the interface of their messaging app.  Specifically, I prefer their emoji reaction feature more than that of iMessage.  If both sides could improve encryption, that would resolve it all.  Keep the designated bubble colors the same.  Let people know that they're texting an Android.  Just make the message secured.  Secondary, allow videos and photos to go cross-platform without degradation.  My work around for now is to have my Mac running as a server, an app communicating between my phone and Mac; allowing me to send them to my iMessage using family and friends, without them being compressed beyond recognition.  
    williamlondongatorguy
  • Reply 29 of 38
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,525member
    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:
    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:
    kmarei said:
    Google has BBE
    blue bubble envy :)
    Not sure why they'd lobby the EU to change it, though — literally nobody gives a shit about the blue bubbles in the EU. 
    It never had anything to do with the color of bubbles beyond it being a visual indicator of a difference.

    If you send a message from your iPhone to an Android user they don't see a blue bubble, will have no visual clue the message came from an iPhone, and might well have no idea what all the blue bubble ruckus is because they've never seen it unless they have some iPhone owning friend who shows them. 

    Pinning it all on a blue bubble is just an effort at being dismissive, "it's all just a juvenile vanity thing", instead of negatively effecting messaging services' continuity, security, and privacy.
    No, that's the European perspective. In America, where iOS has by far the majority usage share, it's a different matter. 

    I just find it curious that they're apparently playing that angle in a jurisdiction where it's completely irrelevant. 
    Try seeing it from a different perspective...

    When Android users converse with each other in Google Messages, their texts and shared media can be both private and highly secure due to E2EE RCS. That all changes when an iPhone enters the room.

    Once your iPhone's Apple Messages, AKA iMessage, joins the conversation, the discussion is compromised: No longer secure, no longer protected from eavesdropping, no longer encrypted as it travels between the devices used in the conversation. Because of an iPhone user the security, privacy, and continuity is thrown out the window. 

    It's for that reason that E2EE interoperability between messaging services is essential if we are to discuss things in private, no governments or cell carriers listening in. 
    The EU is doing a good thing IMHO, and MLS Protocol RFC 9420 will enable it. 
    I understand that, but the exact opposite is true, as well, and both are fairly irrelevant, since the dominant messenger BY FAR is WhatsApp. 

    Google is just trying to leverage the EU to gain more control over a protocol that they themselves only partially support (so far as it's to their advantage). 

    But my point was the Blue Bubble Envy, which is a real phenomenon in the United States, but simply Not A Thing here in Europe. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,084member
    spheric said:
    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:
    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:
    kmarei said:
    Google has BBE
    blue bubble envy :)
    Not sure why they'd lobby the EU to change it, though — literally nobody gives a shit about the blue bubbles in the EU. 
    It never had anything to do with the color of bubbles beyond it being a visual indicator of a difference.

    If you send a message from your iPhone to an Android user they don't see a blue bubble, will have no visual clue the message came from an iPhone, and might well have no idea what all the blue bubble ruckus is because they've never seen it unless they have some iPhone owning friend who shows them. 

    Pinning it all on a blue bubble is just an effort at being dismissive, "it's all just a juvenile vanity thing", instead of negatively effecting messaging services' continuity, security, and privacy.
    No, that's the European perspective. In America, where iOS has by far the majority usage share, it's a different matter. 

    I just find it curious that they're apparently playing that angle in a jurisdiction where it's completely irrelevant. 
    Try seeing it from a different perspective...

    When Android users converse with each other in Google Messages, their texts and shared media can be both private and highly secure due to E2EE RCS. That all changes when an iPhone enters the room.

    Once your iPhone's Apple Messages, AKA iMessage, joins the conversation, the discussion is compromised: No longer secure, no longer protected from eavesdropping, no longer encrypted as it travels between the devices used in the conversation. Because of an iPhone user the security, privacy, and continuity is thrown out the window. 

    It's for that reason that E2EE interoperability between messaging services is essential if we are to discuss things in private, no governments or cell carriers listening in. 
    The EU is doing a good thing IMHO, and MLS Protocol RFC 9420 will enable it. 
    I understand that, but the exact opposite is true, as well, and both are fairly irrelevant, since the dominant messenger BY FAR is WhatsApp. 

    Google is just trying to leverage the EU to gain more control over a protocol that they themselves only partially support (so far as it's to their advantage). 

    But my point was the Blue Bubble Envy, which is a real phenomenon in the United States, but simply Not A Thing here in Europe. 
    I don't think "Blue Bubble Envy" is a thing in the US either. It's mostly iPhone users aware of it. Most Android owners wouldn't even know they were a "green bubble" and you're a "blue bubble", nor would they care. As I said in the first place, that's a talking point meant to be dismissive.

    What we all want is a secure and full-featured messaging service. In the EU it is primarily WhatsApp providing it. In the US it had been iMessage. The pieces are now in place for all messaging users to be happier on both continents whether it's iMessage, Signal, WhatsApp, Google Messages or "other".

    I shouldn't have to give up privacy and security simply because someone in the discussion has a service or device different than mine, and you shouldn't either. Now we don't have to, even if a couple of the providers have to be dragged kicking and screaming into cooperation. 
    edited November 2023 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 31 of 38
    Imagine being such a crappy company that after creating and failing at numerous messaging apps, you have to go running to the EU like a little ***** to get help
    Xedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 38
    XedXed Posts: 2,457member
    samjabr said:
    Imagine being such a crappy company that after creating and failing at numerous messaging apps, you have to go running to the EU like a little ***** to get help
    This may seem sarcastic, but I am completely sincere: Great first post!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 38
    XedXed Posts: 2,457member

    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:
    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:
    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:
    kmarei said:
    Google has BBE
    blue bubble envy :)
    Not sure why they'd lobby the EU to change it, though — literally nobody gives a shit about the blue bubbles in the EU. 
    It never had anything to do with the color of bubbles beyond it being a visual indicator of a difference.

    If you send a message from your iPhone to an Android user they don't see a blue bubble, will have no visual clue the message came from an iPhone, and might well have no idea what all the blue bubble ruckus is because they've never seen it unless they have some iPhone owning friend who shows them. 

    Pinning it all on a blue bubble is just an effort at being dismissive, "it's all just a juvenile vanity thing", instead of negatively effecting messaging services' continuity, security, and privacy.
    No, that's the European perspective. In America, where iOS has by far the majority usage share, it's a different matter. 

    I just find it curious that they're apparently playing that angle in a jurisdiction where it's completely irrelevant. 
    Try seeing it from a different perspective...

    When Android users converse with each other in Google Messages, their texts and shared media can be both private and highly secure due to E2EE RCS. That all changes when an iPhone enters the room.

    Once your iPhone's Apple Messages, AKA iMessage, joins the conversation, the discussion is compromised: No longer secure, no longer protected from eavesdropping, no longer encrypted as it travels between the devices used in the conversation. Because of an iPhone user the security, privacy, and continuity is thrown out the window. 

    It's for that reason that E2EE interoperability between messaging services is essential if we are to discuss things in private, no governments or cell carriers listening in. 
    The EU is doing a good thing IMHO, and MLS Protocol RFC 9420 will enable it. 
    I understand that, but the exact opposite is true, as well, and both are fairly irrelevant, since the dominant messenger BY FAR is WhatsApp. 

    Google is just trying to leverage the EU to gain more control over a protocol that they themselves only partially support (so far as it's to their advantage). 

    But my point was the Blue Bubble Envy, which is a real phenomenon in the United States, but simply Not A Thing here in Europe. 
    I don't think "Blue Bubble Envy" is a thing in the US either.
    Oh, it absolutely is a thing. This thread for this article and all the others that have come before it is because Google massively envies what iMessage is and how that envy gets customers to switch from Android or simply not leave the iOS ecosystem in the first place.

    https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/10/22876067/google-apple-ios-android-imessages-bullying-lockheimer
  • Reply 34 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,084member
    So after all this hand-wringing from iMessage/Apple Messages users and claims that Apple will never use RCS until the law tells them to, Apple decides to incorporate it anyway, and for better security and continuity. You don't say? 

    "Later next year, we will be adding support for RCS Universal Profile, the standard as currently published by the GSM Association. We believe RCS Universal Profile will offer a better interoperability experience when compared to SMS or MMS. This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging experience for Apple users."

    It remains unclear whether it will be cross-platform E2EE or simply the RCS standard as defined by GSM.

    EDIT: No it will not be end-to-end encrypted as it is with Google Messages, and will also be up to the carriers to activate it. Well, it's more than halfway there. At least no more SMS unless all else fails. 
    edited November 2023 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 35 of 38
    XedXed Posts: 2,457member
    gatorguy said:
    So after all this hand-wringing from iMessage/Apple Messages users and claims that Apple will never use RCS until the law tells them to, Apple decides to incorporate it anyway, and for better security and continuity. You don't say? 

    "Later next year, we will be adding support for RCS Universal Profile, the standard as currently published by the GSM Association. We believe RCS Universal Profile will offer a better interoperability experience when compared to SMS or MMS. This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging experience for Apple users."

    It remains unclear whether it will be cross-platform E2EE or simply the RCS standard as defined by GSM.

    EDIT: No it will not be end-to-end encrypted as it is with Google Messages, and will also be up to the carriers to activate it. Well, it's more than halfway there. At least no more SMS unless all else fails. 
    So, still a green bubble with fragmented support and inferior security? Sounds wonderful. /s
  • Reply 36 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,084member
    Xed said:
    gatorguy said:
    So after all this hand-wringing from iMessage/Apple Messages users and claims that Apple will never use RCS until the law tells them to, Apple decides to incorporate it anyway, and for better security and continuity. You don't say? 

    "Later next year, we will be adding support for RCS Universal Profile, the standard as currently published by the GSM Association. We believe RCS Universal Profile will offer a better interoperability experience when compared to SMS or MMS. This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging experience for Apple users."

    It remains unclear whether it will be cross-platform E2EE or simply the RCS standard as defined by GSM.

    EDIT: No it will not be end-to-end encrypted as it is with Google Messages, and will also be up to the carriers to activate it. Well, it's more than halfway there. At least no more SMS unless all else fails. 
    So, still a green bubble with fragmented support and inferior security? Sounds wonderful. /s
    Seems about right. Hopefully your RCS Apple messages will be encrypted sooner rather than later. 
  • Reply 37 of 38
    XedXed Posts: 2,457member
    gatorguy said:
    Xed said:
    gatorguy said:
    So after all this hand-wringing from iMessage/Apple Messages users and claims that Apple will never use RCS until the law tells them to, Apple decides to incorporate it anyway, and for better security and continuity. You don't say? 

    "Later next year, we will be adding support for RCS Universal Profile, the standard as currently published by the GSM Association. We believe RCS Universal Profile will offer a better interoperability experience when compared to SMS or MMS. This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging experience for Apple users."

    It remains unclear whether it will be cross-platform E2EE or simply the RCS standard as defined by GSM.

    EDIT: No it will not be end-to-end encrypted as it is with Google Messages, and will also be up to the carriers to activate it. Well, it's more than halfway there. At least no more SMS unless all else fails. 
    So, still a green bubble with fragmented support and inferior security? Sounds wonderful. /s
    Seems about right. Hopefully your RCS Apple messages will be encrypted sooner rather than later. 
    If all the US carriers support RCS and end to end encryption I’ll be happy.
    spheric
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