Apple's flavor of RCS won't support Google's end-to-end encryption extension

24

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 61
    Apple doesn’t have a “flavor” of RCS, Google does. Apple will be using Universal Profile RCS.
    williamlondondewmesphericAlex1N
  • Reply 22 of 61
    lmasanti said:
    Maybe… just maybe… Apple convinced GSM to put E2EE into the standard.
    Then… Apple will be include RCS in its Ones.

    Simple!

    Apple can even ‘help’ in the effort.
    Apple gave its tech to build Qi2, Matter, the new key standard…
    Not gonna happen. Illegal in most countries, including the U.S. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 23 of 61
    lmasanti said:
    Maybe… just maybe… Apple convinced GSM to put E2EE into the standard.
    Then… Apple will be include RCS in its Ones.

    Simple!

    Apple can even ‘help’ in the effort.
    Apple gave its tech to build Qi2, Matter, the new key standard…
    Not gonna happen. Illegal in most countries, including the U.S. 
    Huh?  What's illegal?
    williamlondon
  • Reply 24 of 61
    Privacy. That’s fiction. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 25 of 61
    Apple basically said “fuck you” to Google.

    I’ve repeatedly said Apple should counter Google’s shame campaign by announcing they’ll support RCS when Google opens up their RCS APIs for everyone. Including competitors like WhatsApp or Telegram.

    Google has their own RCS APIs in Android but Samsung is the only one allowed to use them. Developers have asked and Google has done nothing to allow other Apps to implement RCS via their system and use E2EE.

    So Apple did one better and said they’ll work with standards bodies to improve RCS.

    Now Google’s hopes of a messaging duopoly are finished.


    williamlondongatorguysphericAlex1N
  • Reply 26 of 61
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,084member
    Apple basically said “fuck you” to Google.

    I’ve repeatedly said Apple should counter Google’s shame campaign by announcing they’ll support RCS when Google opens up their RCS APIs for everyone. Including competitors like WhatsApp or Telegram.

    Google has their own RCS APIs in Android but Samsung is the only one allowed to use them. Developers have asked and Google has done nothing to allow other Apps to implement RCS via their system and use E2EE.

    So Apple did one better and said they’ll work with standards bodies to improve RCS.

    Now Google’s hopes of a messaging duopoly are finished.


    Apple has no incentive to see E2EE come to RCS. For the sake of marketing, they need to be able to claim iMessage is more secure than any others. Once all of them are interoperably encrypted Apple loses a talking point. 

    So don't stake your hopes on Apple coming to our rescue riding a white horse. IMO they are doing this hoping that minimal effort will appease EU regulators, while avoiding risk to the marketing value of iMessage. Going in with half a heart won't push GSMA to do anything. We wouldn't have gotten this far without Google, in effect, telling carriers get screwed and get out of the way 5 years ago, secure and private messaging is coming despite you.
    https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/17/18681573/google-rcs-chat-android-texting-carriers-imessage-encryption

    Google is not always on the right side of things, but in the past few years they done better. This is one of those Google-is-on-the-right-side things. 
    edited November 2023
  • Reply 27 of 61
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    chasm said:
    Anilu_777 said:
    I still wonder why Google even cares about this and then why it’s pushing so hard. I don’t trust Google. 
    Oh, let me clarify that for you. Google wants to a) collect data from messages, and b) push rich advertising into messages, which of course they would benefit from.

    I didn’t make this up — it’s been referred to in previous articles talking about Google’s version of RCS. Apple would never allow crap like that, so Google was never going to get Apple to adopt their version of RCS.

    I am actually starting to feel bad for Android users, because if Google gets its way their experience in messaging is about to get a lot crappier.
    Google cannot collect user data from Google Messages RCS. End of story. So yeah, you made that part up.

    Can RCS be used for delivering rich media which could include advertising? Yup, but that's not a Google exclusive.

    You're the one making things up. We went through this once before and you are still so blindly loyal to Google that you don't want to see what is plainly clear for everyone else.

    Google E2EE with their version of RCS, can only exist if both the sender and receiver are using Google Messages. All Google Messages uses Google servers and this is what allows Google version of RCS to have E2EE. Much like how all iMessage users are all using Apple servers and WhatsApp users are all using WhatsApp servers. If either the sender or receiver are not using Google Messages, the message is no longer E2EE. Even Google Messages will default to SMS, so the receiver can still get the text message. And this will most likely happen in a group chat where if one of the person in the chat is not using Google Messages, the whole chat is no longer E2EE for anyone in it. So to say that Google can not collect users data from Google Messages is making things up. You can't possibly believe that Google can not collect users data from unencrypted messages, that they are hosting on their own servers.   

    This is why when Apple adopts RCS, there will still be no E2EE between iMessage and Google Messager. They exist on two different companies servers and uses different protocol. Google RCS E2EE is not a standard. And neither is Apple iMessage E2EE. However, when Apple adopts RCS, both iMessage users and Google Messages user will be able to text each other using the standard RCS. Much like how they can text each other using SMS now. And both Apple and Google can collect users data. But it's mainly Google collecting users data that is the concern for most. And you can bet that if the telecoms adopts a standard E2EE protocol, Google will not be all too happy, as once that happens as Android users no longer be locked into using Google Messages to receive RCS messages that are E2EE. Once E2EE protocol is a standard, it will be avialable for every messaging service to use. Which is what Apple is waiting for.  


    To repeat. Google cannot access user data or message contents in a Google RCS chat.  A fact the first time I said it. 

    Sure, and I know you like to try to shout down bad news, but you keep harping on that very narrow point to distract from the facts that if the chat becomes unencrypted they can and that they still know who the users are and can use that information to map the connections between them. Sometimes the meta data is more valuable than the actual data.
    williamlondonroundaboutnowAlex1N
  • Reply 28 of 61
    gatorguy said:
    Apple basically said “fuck you” to Google.

    I’ve repeatedly said Apple should counter Google’s shame campaign by announcing they’ll support RCS when Google opens up their RCS APIs for everyone. Including competitors like WhatsApp or Telegram.

    Google has their own RCS APIs in Android but Samsung is the only one allowed to use them. Developers have asked and Google has done nothing to allow other Apps to implement RCS via their system and use E2EE.

    So Apple did one better and said they’ll work with standards bodies to improve RCS.

    Now Google’s hopes of a messaging duopoly are finished.


    ... So don't stake your hopes on Apple coming to our rescue riding a white horse. ...
    Our rescue? Don't you mean your rescue, Android users' rescue? Those of us living in the land of blue bubbles don't actually need rescuing at the moment, thank you very much.
    williamlondonroundaboutnowAlex1N
  • Reply 29 of 61
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,084member
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    chasm said:
    Anilu_777 said:
    I still wonder why Google even cares about this and then why it’s pushing so hard. I don’t trust Google. 
    Oh, let me clarify that for you. Google wants to a) collect data from messages, and b) push rich advertising into messages, which of course they would benefit from.

    I didn’t make this up — it’s been referred to in previous articles talking about Google’s version of RCS. Apple would never allow crap like that, so Google was never going to get Apple to adopt their version of RCS.

    I am actually starting to feel bad for Android users, because if Google gets its way their experience in messaging is about to get a lot crappier.
    Google cannot collect user data from Google Messages RCS. End of story. So yeah, you made that part up.

    Can RCS be used for delivering rich media which could include advertising? Yup, but that's not a Google exclusive.

    You're the one making things up. We went through this once before and you are still so blindly loyal to Google that you don't want to see what is plainly clear for everyone else.

    Google E2EE with their version of RCS, can only exist if both the sender and receiver are using Google Messages. All Google Messages uses Google servers and this is what allows Google version of RCS to have E2EE. Much like how all iMessage users are all using Apple servers and WhatsApp users are all using WhatsApp servers. If either the sender or receiver are not using Google Messages, the message is no longer E2EE. Even Google Messages will default to SMS, so the receiver can still get the text message. And this will most likely happen in a group chat where if one of the person in the chat is not using Google Messages, the whole chat is no longer E2EE for anyone in it. So to say that Google can not collect users data from Google Messages is making things up. You can't possibly believe that Google can not collect users data from unencrypted messages, that they are hosting on their own servers.   

    This is why when Apple adopts RCS, there will still be no E2EE between iMessage and Google Messager. They exist on two different companies servers and uses different protocol. Google RCS E2EE is not a standard. And neither is Apple iMessage E2EE. However, when Apple adopts RCS, both iMessage users and Google Messages user will be able to text each other using the standard RCS. Much like how they can text each other using SMS now. And both Apple and Google can collect users data. But it's mainly Google collecting users data that is the concern for most. And you can bet that if the telecoms adopts a standard E2EE protocol, Google will not be all too happy, as once that happens as Android users no longer be locked into using Google Messages to receive RCS messages that are E2EE. Once E2EE protocol is a standard, it will be avialable for every messaging service to use. Which is what Apple is waiting for.  


    To repeat. Google cannot access user data or message contents in a Google RCS chat.  A fact the first time I said it. 

    Sure, and I know you like to try to shout down bad news, but you keep harping on that very narrow point to distract from the facts that if the chat becomes unencrypted they can and that they still know who the users are and can use that information to map the connections between them. Sometimes the meta data is more valuable than the actual data.
    Of course it does and it doesn't matter whose messaging you use. Once the chat is no longer encrypted, maybe inadequate cross-compatibilty or an old leaky standard in use, then the provider and carrier can see who the users are even if encryption is the default. It's funny if you don't think that applies to your Apple messaging services just as surely as Google Messages. 
    edited November 2023
  • Reply 30 of 61
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    chasm said:
    Anilu_777 said:
    I still wonder why Google even cares about this and then why it’s pushing so hard. I don’t trust Google. 
    Oh, let me clarify that for you. Google wants to a) collect data from messages, and b) push rich advertising into messages, which of course they would benefit from.

    I didn’t make this up — it’s been referred to in previous articles talking about Google’s version of RCS. Apple would never allow crap like that, so Google was never going to get Apple to adopt their version of RCS.

    I am actually starting to feel bad for Android users, because if Google gets its way their experience in messaging is about to get a lot crappier.
    Google cannot collect user data from Google Messages RCS. End of story. So yeah, you made that part up.

    Can RCS be used for delivering rich media which could include advertising? Yup, but that's not a Google exclusive.

    You're the one making things up. We went through this once before and you are still so blindly loyal to Google that you don't want to see what is plainly clear for everyone else.

    Google E2EE with their version of RCS, can only exist if both the sender and receiver are using Google Messages. All Google Messages uses Google servers and this is what allows Google version of RCS to have E2EE. Much like how all iMessage users are all using Apple servers and WhatsApp users are all using WhatsApp servers. If either the sender or receiver are not using Google Messages, the message is no longer E2EE. Even Google Messages will default to SMS, so the receiver can still get the text message. And this will most likely happen in a group chat where if one of the person in the chat is not using Google Messages, the whole chat is no longer E2EE for anyone in it. So to say that Google can not collect users data from Google Messages is making things up. You can't possibly believe that Google can not collect users data from unencrypted messages, that they are hosting on their own servers.   

    This is why when Apple adopts RCS, there will still be no E2EE between iMessage and Google Messager. They exist on two different companies servers and uses different protocol. Google RCS E2EE is not a standard. And neither is Apple iMessage E2EE. However, when Apple adopts RCS, both iMessage users and Google Messages user will be able to text each other using the standard RCS. Much like how they can text each other using SMS now. And both Apple and Google can collect users data. But it's mainly Google collecting users data that is the concern for most. And you can bet that if the telecoms adopts a standard E2EE protocol, Google will not be all too happy, as once that happens as Android users no longer be locked into using Google Messages to receive RCS messages that are E2EE. Once E2EE protocol is a standard, it will be avialable for every messaging service to use. Which is what Apple is waiting for.  


    To repeat. Google cannot access user data or message contents in a Google RCS chat.  A fact the first time I said it. 

    Sure, and I know you like to try to shout down bad news, but you keep harping on that very narrow point to distract from the facts that if the chat becomes unencrypted they can and that they still know who the users are and can use that information to map the connections between them. Sometimes the meta data is more valuable than the actual data.
    Of course it does and it doesn't matter whose messaging you use. Once the chat is no longer encrypted, maybe inadequate cross-compatibilty or an old leaky standard in use, then the provider can see who the users are even if encryption is the default. It's funny if you don't think that applies to your Apple messaging services just as surely as Google Messsages. 
    Well, Guy, we don't really worry about that with Apple, despite your never ending attempts to create false equivalencies between them and Google.

    But, I'm glad you finally admit that your use of "Google RCS" chat is a narrow technical term that means "when and only when E2EE can be used" even though you are brandish it as though it means something more than that.
    williamlondonericthehalfbee
  • Reply 31 of 61
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,084member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    chasm said:
    Anilu_777 said:
    I still wonder why Google even cares about this and then why it’s pushing so hard. I don’t trust Google. 
    Oh, let me clarify that for you. Google wants to a) collect data from messages, and b) push rich advertising into messages, which of course they would benefit from.

    I didn’t make this up — it’s been referred to in previous articles talking about Google’s version of RCS. Apple would never allow crap like that, so Google was never going to get Apple to adopt their version of RCS.

    I am actually starting to feel bad for Android users, because if Google gets its way their experience in messaging is about to get a lot crappier.
    Google cannot collect user data from Google Messages RCS. End of story. So yeah, you made that part up.

    Can RCS be used for delivering rich media which could include advertising? Yup, but that's not a Google exclusive.

    You're the one making things up. We went through this once before and you are still so blindly loyal to Google that you don't want to see what is plainly clear for everyone else.

    Google E2EE with their version of RCS, can only exist if both the sender and receiver are using Google Messages. All Google Messages uses Google servers and this is what allows Google version of RCS to have E2EE. Much like how all iMessage users are all using Apple servers and WhatsApp users are all using WhatsApp servers. If either the sender or receiver are not using Google Messages, the message is no longer E2EE. Even Google Messages will default to SMS, so the receiver can still get the text message. And this will most likely happen in a group chat where if one of the person in the chat is not using Google Messages, the whole chat is no longer E2EE for anyone in it. So to say that Google can not collect users data from Google Messages is making things up. You can't possibly believe that Google can not collect users data from unencrypted messages, that they are hosting on their own servers.   

    This is why when Apple adopts RCS, there will still be no E2EE between iMessage and Google Messager. They exist on two different companies servers and uses different protocol. Google RCS E2EE is not a standard. And neither is Apple iMessage E2EE. However, when Apple adopts RCS, both iMessage users and Google Messages user will be able to text each other using the standard RCS. Much like how they can text each other using SMS now. And both Apple and Google can collect users data. But it's mainly Google collecting users data that is the concern for most. And you can bet that if the telecoms adopts a standard E2EE protocol, Google will not be all too happy, as once that happens as Android users no longer be locked into using Google Messages to receive RCS messages that are E2EE. Once E2EE protocol is a standard, it will be avialable for every messaging service to use. Which is what Apple is waiting for.  


    To repeat. Google cannot access user data or message contents in a Google RCS chat.  A fact the first time I said it. 

    Sure, and I know you like to try to shout down bad news, but you keep harping on that very narrow point to distract from the facts that if the chat becomes unencrypted they can and that they still know who the users are and can use that information to map the connections between them. Sometimes the meta data is more valuable than the actual data.
    Of course it does and it doesn't matter whose messaging you use. Once the chat is no longer encrypted, maybe inadequate cross-compatibilty or an old leaky standard in use, then the provider can see who the users are even if encryption is the default. It's funny if you don't think that applies to your Apple messaging services just as surely as Google Messsages. 
    Well, Guy, we don't really worry about that with Apple, despite your never ending attempts to create false equivalencies between them and Google.
    See? We can find common ground.

    You don't worry about Apple any more than I do (and I don't worry much about Google either) but you should worry about the carriers. I do. They have a history of selling personal data and to various data-mining companies who sell it on again, if not others.  Neither Apple nor Google does.

    I would much prefer that Apple and Google worked together to limit what outside parties can see, but while they work together on a lot of stuff, this is not one of them. 
    edited November 2023
  • Reply 32 of 61
    I do not understand why this is news. I do not know anyone who owns an Android phone, Everyone I know owns an iPhone.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 33 of 61
    Having end-to-end encryption as a part of the standard sounds great – good move by Apple!
  • Reply 34 of 61
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,259member
    I think Apple and most of the computing world learned everything it needed to know about trying to push propriety implementations into the open standards space with Microsoft's Internet Explorer (MSIE). There is no long term value in unleashing semi-open or kind-of-standard implementations on to unsuspecting users, especially if they are masquerading as being standards based.

    If Google wants to make their E2EE part of the RCS standard they need to relinquish control and ownership of their designs and code to the standards organization. Doing so may result in their proprietary implementation becoming obsolete and non-compliant, much like what happened with MSIE. I know this isn't exactly the same scenario as MSIE vs. W3C, but I think the end result will be the same: the non-compliant non-standard implementation goes away. RIP.

    This doesn't mean that the relinquished assets do not contribute to the open standard. MSIE did contribute valuable extensions to the W3C standards that were adopted. The adoption of standards does not prevent a vendor from building a totally proprietary implementation as long as they make no assertions about their product's compliance with the standard.

    Claiming to be RCS compliant while adding proprietary extensions is not necessarily evil, but it should be handled in a way that makes it very clear to users that what they are seeing and experiencing is a composite view with both standard and non-standard elements. Apple's current use of the blue text boxes for iMessage content and green boxes for SMS content is exactly the kind of differentiation that should be done. If Apple obscured the truth by making everything look exactly the same, e.g., everyone gets a blue bubble, they'd be deceiving their customers.

    There is a big difference between blue bubbles and green bubbles. It's solely intended to inform and should have nothing to do with shaming. If anything, the blue bubbles in iMessage are where Apple is letting the user know that those messages are using a proprietary technology rather than an open standard. If you're a standards purest you really should be annoyed to see all of those blue bubbles and push Apple to only use green bubble technology. Personally, as a loyal Apple customer who cares deeply about privacy and security, I am willing to forgive Apple for making its blue bubble technology available for my use, even though it's defiling the standards purity of iMessage. I must confess that I've chosen privacy and security over blind adherence to an inadequate standard. Call me a bastard for choosing blue over green, but sometimes you have to look out for yourself.
    williamlondontmayAlex1N
  • Reply 35 of 61
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,479member
    gatorguy said:
    Apple basically said “fuck you” to Google.

    I’ve repeatedly said Apple should counter Google’s shame campaign by announcing they’ll support RCS when Google opens up their RCS APIs for everyone. Including competitors like WhatsApp or Telegram.

    Google has their own RCS APIs in Android but Samsung is the only one allowed to use them. Developers have asked and Google has done nothing to allow other Apps to implement RCS via their system and use E2EE.

    So Apple did one better and said they’ll work with standards bodies to improve RCS.

    Now Google’s hopes of a messaging duopoly are finished.


    ... So don't stake your hopes on Apple coming to our rescue riding a white horse. ...
    Our rescue? Don't you mean your rescue, Android users' rescue? Those of us living in the land of blue bubbles don't actually need rescuing at the moment, thank you very much.
    We mustn't forget that for millions of iOS users, Messages is not a viable option right now due to a lack of feature parity with other platforms. The result is that those users simply stop using Messages altogether. 

    Those users would probably like to be 'rescued' in some way, as, as things stand, they aren't using blue bubbles at all. 

    I agree that this move is likely something done to appease the EU. Whether it is enough or not is currently unknown. 

    I guess Apple is striving to do the absolute minimum to cross the line of interoperability here. 
    Alex1Nmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 36 of 61
    gatorguy said:
    Apple basically said “fuck you” to Google.

    I’ve repeatedly said Apple should counter Google’s shame campaign by announcing they’ll support RCS when Google opens up their RCS APIs for everyone. Including competitors like WhatsApp or Telegram.

    Google has their own RCS APIs in Android but Samsung is the only one allowed to use them. Developers have asked and Google has done nothing to allow other Apps to implement RCS via their system and use E2EE.

    So Apple did one better and said they’ll work with standards bodies to improve RCS.

    Now Google’s hopes of a messaging duopoly are finished.


    Apple has no incentive to see E2EE come to RCS. For the sake of marketing, they need to be able to claim iMessage is more secure than any others. Once all of them are interoperably encrypted Apple loses a talking point. 

    So don't stake your hopes on Apple coming to our rescue riding a white horse. IMO they are doing this hoping that minimal effort will appease EU regulators, while avoiding risk to the marketing value of iMessage. Going in with half a heart won't push GSMA to do anything. We wouldn't have gotten this far without Google, in effect, telling carriers get screwed and get out of the way 5 years ago, secure and private messaging is coming despite you.
    https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/17/18681573/google-rcs-chat-android-texting-carriers-imessage-encryption

    Google is not always on the right side of things, but in the past few years they done better. This is one of those Google-is-on-the-right-side things. 

    Apple doesn’t care if RCS gets E2EE as it won’t threaten iMessage. RCS will just be a different colored bubble in iMessage that lets users know their chat is RCS and encrypted. All the other benefits of iMessage don’t disappear or become diminished because of RCS.

    Google is on the right side? So restricting developer access to RCS while giving a special deal to Samsung is considered “right”?

    The ONLY reason Google is now cooperating is they would also have to abide by EU laws. This doesn’t just affect Apple.

    Too bad for Google now that the EU buried their last chance at having a dominant messaging platform after 16 years of failures. Had Apple adopted RCS 2 years ago Google Messages would have taken off and displaced countless WhatsApp (or other) users since the only two platforms that could text each other would be iMessage and Google Messages. This is what Google wanted - to have Apple help them become a duopoly. No longer possible.

    Google Messages will be another has-been messaging platform since everyone will be able to talk to everyone else over RCS. WhatsApp users can keep using WhatsApp. iMessage users will keep using iMessage. The most used messengers will retain their current positions in the market, except now they’ll interoperate.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 37 of 61
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,084member
    gatorguy said:
    Apple basically said “fuck you” to Google.

    I’ve repeatedly said Apple should counter Google’s shame campaign by announcing they’ll support RCS when Google opens up their RCS APIs for everyone. Including competitors like WhatsApp or Telegram.

    Google has their own RCS APIs in Android but Samsung is the only one allowed to use them. Developers have asked and Google has done nothing to allow other Apps to implement RCS via their system and use E2EE.

    So Apple did one better and said they’ll work with standards bodies to improve RCS.

    Now Google’s hopes of a messaging duopoly are finished.


    Apple has no incentive to see E2EE come to RCS. For the sake of marketing, they need to be able to claim iMessage is more secure than any others. Once all of them are interoperably encrypted Apple loses a talking point. 

    So don't stake your hopes on Apple coming to our rescue riding a white horse. IMO they are doing this hoping that minimal effort will appease EU regulators, while avoiding risk to the marketing value of iMessage. Going in with half a heart won't push GSMA to do anything. We wouldn't have gotten this far without Google, in effect, telling carriers get screwed and get out of the way 5 years ago, secure and private messaging is coming despite you.
    https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/17/18681573/google-rcs-chat-android-texting-carriers-imessage-encryption

    Google is not always on the right side of things, but in the past few years they done better. This is one of those Google-is-on-the-right-side things. 

    Apple doesn’t care if RCS gets E2EE as it won’t threaten iMessage. RCS will just be a different colored bubble in iMessage that lets users know their chat is RCS and encrypted. All the other benefits of iMessage don’t disappear or become diminished because of RCS.

    Google is on the right side? So restricting developer access to RCS while giving a special deal to Samsung is considered “right”?

    The ONLY reason Google is now cooperating is they would also have to abide by EU laws. This doesn’t just affect Apple.

    Too bad for Google now that the EU buried their last chance at having a dominant messaging platform after 16 years of failures. Had Apple adopted RCS 2 years ago Google Messages would have taken off and displaced countless WhatsApp (or other) users since the only two platforms that could text each other would be iMessage and Google Messages. This is what Google wanted - to have Apple help them become a duopoly. No longer possible.

    Google Messages will be another has-been messaging platform since everyone will be able to talk to everyone else over RCS. WhatsApp users can keep using WhatsApp. iMessage users will keep using iMessage. The most used messengers will retain their current positions in the market, except now they’ll interoperate.
    It was never going to be a duopoly. Outside of the US other messaging apps are the market leaders. But your claim that Google RCS is restricted to Google and Samsung is wrong. You're either not looking (Hint: Jibe) or meant to say the E2EE Google RCS version.

    Seeing as E2EE Google Messages has been out for less than a year, and default group E2EE just three months, the growth has been pretty impressive IMO. I can only assume the E2EE RCS infrastructure is still being built-out, and you should too. It requires a lot of Google resources already.

    You know how things work in Appleland; a big new feature rolls out to one or two regions before gradually getting a wider distribution. A lot of pieces need to be firmly in place before they start running. ApplePay, AppleCard and satellite are some that immediately come to mind. You don't hold that against Apple, but you hold Google to a higher standard?

    Maybe give Google more than a few months to settle in. As a developer yourself you should already have understood that.
    edited November 2023
  • Reply 38 of 61
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,525member
    gatorguy said:
    Apple basically said “fuck you” to Google.

    I’ve repeatedly said Apple should counter Google’s shame campaign by announcing they’ll support RCS when Google opens up their RCS APIs for everyone. Including competitors like WhatsApp or Telegram.

    Google has their own RCS APIs in Android but Samsung is the only one allowed to use them. Developers have asked and Google has done nothing to allow other Apps to implement RCS via their system and use E2EE.

    So Apple did one better and said they’ll work with standards bodies to improve RCS.

    Now Google’s hopes of a messaging duopoly are finished.


    Apple has no incentive to see E2EE come to RCS. For the sake of marketing, they need to be able to claim iMessage is more secure than any others. Once all of them are interoperably encrypted Apple loses a talking point. 
    Nor does Google — if they did, they'd let other app vendors use their RCS API. 

    Since they don't, we can assume that interoperability is not a priority — it's getting people to use Google's own messaging app. 
    williamlondonAlex1Nericthehalfbee
  • Reply 39 of 61
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    Anilu_777 said:
    I still wonder why Google even cares about this and then why it’s pushing so hard. I don’t trust Google. 

    Massive new data stream. They’ve failed so far with any attempt at a “social” network of any kind.
    williamlondonAlex1Nericthehalfbee
  • Reply 40 of 61
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    lmasanti said:
    Maybe… just maybe… Apple convinced GSM to put E2EE into the standard.
    Then… Apple will be include RCS in its Ones.

    Simple!

    Apple can even ‘help’ in the effort.
    Apple gave its tech to build Qi2, Matter, the new key standard…

    Apple has not adopted RCS for the simple fact that the GSMA group has not developed a standard E2EE for it - they have said so several times. And what the article is alluding to is that Apple is in fact working with them to implement one. Google currently has their own proprietery E2EE extension to RCS that Apple flat out refuses to use, and for good reason. (Apple actually has stated they will not support ANY non-standard extensions to RCS.)

    People also need to understand that end-to-end encryption only means that between you and the other user, the message remains encrypted. That does not mean that same message cannot be sent somewhere else unencrypted. Google is a company that thrives on data, forever looking for new data streams to mine. You can be sure, ANYTHING that passes through their E2EE extension will be harvested and mined.
    tmaywilliamlondonAlex1N
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