He missed the point entirely and your point boils down to your definition of 'true' which completely ignores what the OP might have meant and, IMO at least, seems very clear.
Apple's bread and butter remains hardware.
Google's bread and butter remains software.
Even though both of them produce hardware and software.
Apple is the last vertical computer company left from the 1980's, Atari, Commodore, Sun, SGI, Digital and others are long gone.
Though I praise the ethical stand point that Apple has taken, doing so will ensure their loss. The data that these companies will provide will be infinitely smaller than the huge mountains of data that companies such as OpenAI and Google have.
Also, having to rely on third parties will only slow them down. There are claims that regulations will be passed which may hinder companies such as Google which is scraping the internet for data, I assure you nothing like that will happen in the states. Currently, the world is in a race and no country can afford to be behind, no government (barring EU, duh) is foolish enough to hinder this fledgling field.
Also, Apple is a hardware company unlike Google which is a true software company, they have more areas to integrate and monetise AI.
Google has more money than Apple?
Apple isn't a "true" software company is what respect? Because they also design HW?
Both of them don't have a big difference in revenue generated, I don't think money is a problem to either of them.
Isn't Apple more akin to Samsung which sells hardware, and makes software to go along with that? Whereas, Google focuses on software and also has divisions such as Google Deepmind which is the leader of AI research, also possessing the world's fastest quantum computer.
Apple executes on a far different level than Google, Apple in the last 25 years has been far more effective building profitable new ecosystems, however the huge loads of money spent by the Googles (me too) follies is far beyond Apple. Most of it was spent on bribes, kickbacks and short-term tech flops.
Well, Apple is twice as old as Google as a starting point. Also, don't forget the bad phase Apple had to go through when it was almost going bankrupt.
I understand the love for Apple on an Apple site, but the creator of YouTube, Google maps, Google search, Gmail, Chrome, Google photos is more than the creator of a me too product.
Also, dare I say Google has played such a significant part in the creation/implementation of most modern web protocols to the point they are the reason the web exists in its current form. Their work in AI is also highly appreciated by the industry, most of which they have open-sourced.
I would personally not insult Apple because I respect them, but they aren't exactly the shining bastion of morality, as we have been finding out in recent times.
Though I praise the ethical stand point that Apple has taken, doing so will ensure their loss. The data that these companies will provide will be infinitely smaller than the huge mountains of data that companies such as OpenAI and Google have.
Also, having to rely on third parties will only slow them down. There are claims that regulations will be passed which may hinder companies such as Google which is scraping the internet for data, I assure you nothing like that will happen in the states. Currently, the world is in a race and no country can afford to be behind, no government (barring EU, duh) is foolish enough to hinder this fledgling field.
Also, Apple is a hardware company unlike Google which is a true software company, they have more areas to integrate and monetise AI.
Google has more money than Apple?
Apple isn't a "true" software company is what respect? Because they also design HW?
Both of them don't have a big difference in revenue generated, I don't think money is a problem to either of them.
Isn't Apple more akin to Samsung which sells hardware, and makes software to go along with that? Whereas, Google focuses on software and also has divisions such as Google Deepmind which is the leader of AI research, also possessing the world's fastest quantum computer.
Apple executes on a far different level than Google, Apple in the last 25 years has been far more effective building profitable new ecosystems, however the huge loads of money spent by the Googles (me too) follies is far beyond Apple. Most of it was spent on bribes, kickbacks and short-term tech flops.
Well, Apple is twice as old as Google as a starting point. Also, don't forget the bad phase Apple had to go through when it was almost going bankrupt.
I understand the love for Apple on an Apple site, but the creator of YouTube, Google maps, Google search, Gmail, Chrome, Google photos is more than the creator of a me too product.
Also, dare I say Google has played such a significant part in the creation/implementation of most modern web protocols to the point they are the reason the web exists in its current form. Their work in AI is also highly appreciated by the industry, most of which they have open-sourced.
I would personally not insult Apple because I respect them, but they aren't exactly the shining bastion of morality, as we have been finding out in recent times.
There’s so much wrong with your comment, but I only have time to not a couple glaring issues.
Google didn’t create YouTube. They bought the dominate web-based video service at the time. Nothing wrong with that as it was a way compete while killing competition since Google Video(?) was a market flop, but you can’t say they “created” it.
Are you saying Apple is a “me too” company? If so, I’d love to hear that argument. 🍿
You didn’t mention Apple in your comment about being a part of the modern web.do you not know that the World Wide Web was created (not acquired) on a NeXT machine, which is Steve Jobs company between running Apple; it’s the OS and apps (*cough* software *cough*) that Apple bought to make all their very modern OSes. An OS is the foundation of iOS that Android shamelessly copied.
You also don’t mention what Apple did to make a modern smartphone for the “Average Joe” when BlackBerry was king for nerds and business execs only.
Finally, you failed to even acknowledge Apple’s creation of the open source WebKit engine out of KHTML to make web browsing a fast and congruent experience across all device types. A browser engine that Alphabet (nee Google) happily used and still do, albeit in a forked variety.
Before saying anything I want to make it clear that I have nothing against Apple but am only providing counter arguments to your comment.
<Are you saying Apple is a “me too” company? If so, I’d love to hear that argument. ߍ說mp;gt; No, I only responded to a comment about Google.
<do you not know that the World Wide Web was created (not acquired) on a NeXT machine> So? If I write a novel on Microsoft word does Microsoft get credit for that.
<it’s the OS and apps (*cough* software *cough*) that Apple bought to make all their very modern OSes.> Which they did because the old MacOS was dated and they needed a replacement, if anything it proves the visionary genius of Steve Jobs. It kind of proves that Apple historically sucked at software.
<You also don’t mention what Apple did to make a modern smartphone for the “Average Joe” when BlackBerry was king for nerds and business execs only.> Blackberry was only 'king' in the US and maybe among the business execs, didn't mean that the average Joe didn't uses Nokia or Motorola phones. Also, the concept of Nerd itself is unique to the US so anywhere else owning even Nokia phones was seen as a prestige symbol especially in developing nations. <Apple’s creation of the open source WebKit engine out of KHTML to make web browsing a fast and congruent experience across all device types.> So Apple forked a browser engine which was further forked by Google. Then why have all browser vendors switched to Chromium and not stayed with Webkit? It's because Apple has spent minimal resources in updating to standards. Developing for Safari is a nightmare compared to Chrome.
<AnOSisthefoundationofiOSthatAndroidshamelesslycopied> Didn't MacOS copy from Xerox, why do they get a pass on it if you are willing to hold Android accountable.
Though I praise the ethical stand point that Apple has taken, doing so will ensure their loss. The data that these companies will provide will be infinitely smaller than the huge mountains of data that companies such as OpenAI and Google have.
Also, having to rely on third parties will only slow them down. There are claims that regulations will be passed which may hinder companies such as Google which is scraping the internet for data, I assure you nothing like that will happen in the states. Currently, the world is in a race and no country can afford to be behind, no government (barring EU, duh) is foolish enough to hinder this fledgling field.
Also, Apple is a hardware company unlike Google which is a true software company, they have more areas to integrate and monetise AI.
Google has more money than Apple?
Apple isn't a "true" software company is what respect? Because they also design HW?
Both of them don't have a big difference in revenue generated, I don't think money is a problem to either of them.
Isn't Apple more akin to Samsung which sells hardware, and makes software to go along with that? Whereas, Google focuses on software and also has divisions such as Google Deepmind which is the leader of AI research, also possessing the world's fastest quantum computer.
Apple executes on a far different level than Google, Apple in the last 25 years has been far more effective building profitable new ecosystems, however the huge loads of money spent by the Googles (me too) follies is far beyond Apple. Most of it was spent on bribes, kickbacks and short-term tech flops.
Well, Apple is twice as old as Google as a starting point. Also, don't forget the bad phase Apple had to go through when it was almost going bankrupt.
I understand the love for Apple on an Apple site, but the creator of YouTube, Google maps, Google search, Gmail, Chrome, Google photos is more than the creator of a me too product.
Also, dare I say Google has played such a significant part in the creation/implementation of most modern web protocols to the point they are the reason the web exists in its current form. Their work in AI is also highly appreciated by the industry, most of which they have open-sourced.
I would personally not insult Apple because I respect them, but they aren't exactly the shining bastion of morality, as we have been finding out in recent times.
Aside from search everything Google does is me too and unusually they do it badly with short term focus.....The same applies to Microsoft and Samsung since 2007.
Right. one of the benefits of going with established publishers is that they have well established editorial processes and so the data is far more reliable. It’s not enough to feed a model data the data has to have some sort of integrity. You can kinda see why AI doesn’t really fit the bill.
"Apple's attempts to keep up with the rest of the AI field has seen some surprising success. It has already implemented a lot of machine learning elements in iOS and other platforms, and on December 19, it published a paper on rapidly creating 3D avatars of humans from brief video clips."
Creating 3D avatars probably isn't significant in terms of 'keeping up' and its ML efforts have consistently seemed to get marketing attention after industry has already moved ahead from them.
It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since 2017 but until this year not much was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones.
You and I have been watching very different keynotes. Apple has been mentioning ML(Ai) in every keynote since they added the neural engine to their SOC. ML has been a staple of iOS and Watch updates for some time.
He missed the point entirely and your point boils down to your definition of 'true' which completely ignores what the OP might have meant and, IMO at least, seems very clear.
Apple's bread and butter remains hardware.
Google's bread and butter remains software.
Even though both of them produce hardware and software.
That is incredibly myopic. What do you think people buy that Apple hardware for? The software is what absolutely defines Apple products. You can’t delineate the two it’s a whole widget. Without the software Apple products are literally useless beyond being paper weights and doorstops. Nobody buys Apple hardware for the sake of the hardware. They buy them because id what the software can do with the hardware.
Strangedays is 100% correct. Apple is first and foremost as software company.
Though I praise the ethical stand point that Apple has taken, doing so will ensure their loss. The data that these companies will provide will be infinitely smaller than the huge mountains of data that companies such as OpenAI and Google have.
Also, having to rely on third parties will only slow them down. There are claims that regulations will be passed which may hinder companies such as Google which is scraping the internet for data, I assure you nothing like that will happen in the states. Currently, the world is in a race and no country can afford to be behind, no government (barring EU, duh) is foolish enough to hinder this fledgling field.
Also, Apple is a hardware company unlike Google which is a true software company, they have more areas to integrate and monetise AI.
So in short Apple should steal it? Apple can't win either way they go? By the way the quality of the data is more important than the quantity of data. Building anything in AI is going to require brains, focus, iteration and discipline.
What good is artificially handicapping yourself, when at this point we can't even say if it's legal or not. Apple is only hurting itself.
Google has decades worth of data and their deepmind division is the leader in AI research. The only reason they were behind OpenAI is because they were caught by surprise and are quickly catching up.
Is that why everything on the Pixel 8 Pro has to phone home to elicit a response because of the deep mind? Phoning home to a tensor (me too) processor that is weaker than the 11 Pro iPhone with a bad modem to boot isn't progress, a modem which is probably equivalent to what Apple can built today in house but wisely choose not to do, and therein shows the difference between the companies one Google (and Samsung) who will consistently release anything far before its time the other tends to show some restraint particularly after Apple Maps.
"Apple's attempts to keep up with the rest of the AI field has seen some surprising success. It has already implemented a lot of machine learning elements in iOS and other platforms, and on December 19, it published a paper on rapidly creating 3D avatars of humans from brief video clips."
Creating 3D avatars probably isn't significant in terms of 'keeping up' and its ML efforts have consistently seemed to get marketing attention after industry has already moved ahead from them.
It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since 2017 but until this year not much was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones.
You and I have been watching very different keynotes. Apple has been mentioning ML(Ai) in every keynote since they added the neural engine to their SOC. ML has been a staple of iOS and Watch updates for some time.
Let me repeat something you may have missed:
"It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since2017 but until this year notmuch was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones. "
NPUs first appeared on phones in 2017. It was only this year that Apple made it a major focus.
He missed the point entirely and your point boils down to your definition of 'true' which completely ignores what the OP might have meant and, IMO at least, seems very clear.
Apple's bread and butter remains hardware.
Google's bread and butter remains software.
Even though both of them produce hardware and software.
That is incredibly myopic. What do you think people buy that Apple hardware for? The software is what absolutely defines Apple products. You can’t delineate the two it’s a whole widget. Without the software Apple products are literally useless beyond being paper weights and doorstops. Nobody buys Apple hardware for the sake of the hardware. They buy them because id what the software can do with the hardware.
Strangedays is 100% correct. Apple is first and foremost as software company.
Even this year, iPhone alone has represented 52% of Apple's revenues.
Add to that all the other hardware derived revenue and you quickly see that Apple absolutely depends on hardware sales.
On the software side and especially for iPhone, what makes or breaks the success of the product insofar as revenues is concerned is actually software from third-party developers.
An iPhone without third party software would see iPhone sales drop off the chart.
The same applies, in a historical context, to Mac. Like iPhone, it has a system. Like iPhone, it has Apple applications and like iPhone, the Mac is first and foremost hardware dependent.
He missed the point entirely and your point boils down to your definition of 'true' which completely ignores what the OP might have meant and, IMO at least, seems very clear.
Apple's bread and butter remains hardware.
Google's bread and butter remains software.
Even though both of them produce hardware and software.
That is incredibly myopic. What do you think people buy that Apple hardware for? The software is what absolutely defines Apple products. You can’t delineate the two it’s a whole widget. Without the software Apple products are literally useless beyond being paper weights and doorstops. Nobody buys Apple hardware for the sake of the hardware. They buy them because id what the software can do with the hardware.
Strangedays is 100% correct. Apple is first and foremost as software company.
Some people can't seem to leave the beige box mentality so the concept of pairing HW and SW to create a groundbreaking UX is lost on them. They are a two-dimensional entity unable to perceive the world in three dimensions.
Here's Steve Jobs quoting Alan Kay. This is what Apple, a company that focuses on SW — not counting the Elio for ad revenue — for the user experience, which we've seen countless times and are seeing again with Apple Vision instead of a bond mediocre, Google Glass- or Meta Quest-level experience.
"Apple's attempts to keep up with the rest of the AI field has seen some surprising success. It has already implemented a lot of machine learning elements in iOS and other platforms, and on December 19, it published a paper on rapidly creating 3D avatars of humans from brief video clips."
Creating 3D avatars probably isn't significant in terms of 'keeping up' and its ML efforts have consistently seemed to get marketing attention after industry has already moved ahead from them.
It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since 2017 but until this year not much was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones.
You and I have been watching very different keynotes. Apple has been mentioning ML(Ai) in every keynote since they added the neural engine to their SOC. ML has been a staple of iOS and Watch updates for some time.
Let me repeat something you may have missed:
"It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since2017 but until this year notmuch was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones. "
NPUs first appeared on phones in 2017. It was only this year that Apple made it a major focus.
Apple has been adding over the years little things to their hardware (iPhones since version 12) in particular, in preparation for the Apple Vision Pro, Lidar and spacial video. (would not be surprised if more models than the 15 Pro are capable back to the 12 iPhones).
Though I praise the ethical stand point that Apple has taken, doing so will ensure their loss. The data that these companies will provide will be infinitely smaller than the huge mountains of data that companies such as OpenAI and Google have.
Also, having to rely on third parties will only slow them down. There are claims that regulations will be passed which may hinder companies such as Google which is scraping the internet for data, I assure you nothing like that will happen in the states. Currently, the world is in a race and no country can afford to be behind, no government (barring EU, duh) is foolish enough to hinder this fledgling field.
Also, Apple is a hardware company unlike Google which is a true software company, they have more areas to integrate and monetise AI.
Google has more money than Apple?
Apple isn't a "true" software company is what respect? Because they also design HW?
Both of them don't have a big difference in revenue generated, I don't think money is a problem to either of them.
Isn't Apple more akin to Samsung which sells hardware, and makes software to go along with that? Whereas, Google focuses on software and also has divisions such as Google Deepmind which is the leader of AI research, also possessing the world's fastest quantum computer.
Apple executes on a far different level than Google, Apple in the last 25 years has been far more effective building profitable new ecosystems, however the huge loads of money spent by the Googles (me too) follies is far beyond Apple. Most of it was spent on bribes, kickbacks and short-term tech flops.
Well, Apple is twice as old as Google as a starting point. Also, don't forget the bad phase Apple had to go through when it was almost going bankrupt.
I understand the love for Apple on an Apple site, but the creator of YouTube, Google maps, Google search, Gmail, Chrome, Google photos is more than the creator of a me too product.
Also, dare I say Google has played such a significant part in the creation/implementation of most modern web protocols to the point they are the reason the web exists in its current form. Their work in AI is also highly appreciated by the industry, most of which they have open-sourced.
I would personally not insult Apple because I respect them, but they aren't exactly the shining bastion of morality, as we have been finding out in recent times.
Aside from search everything Google does is me too and unusually they do it badly with short term focus.....The same applies to Microsoft and Samsung since 2007.
Maybe you haven't noticed, but Apple also have a list of "me too" products and services. Some of them are Pages / Numbers / Keynote, iCloud, HomePod, Apple TV+ and Apple Arcade / Apple TV as a gaming console. Is should include Siri on the list. At the end, no company is perfect, including Apple.
"Apple's attempts to keep up with the rest of the AI field has seen some surprising success. It has already implemented a lot of machine learning elements in iOS and other platforms, and on December 19, it published a paper on rapidly creating 3D avatars of humans from brief video clips."
Creating 3D avatars probably isn't significant in terms of 'keeping up' and its ML efforts have consistently seemed to get marketing attention after industry has already moved ahead from them.
It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since 2017 but until this year not much was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones.
You and I have been watching very different keynotes. Apple has been mentioning ML(Ai) in every keynote since they added the neural engine to their SOC. ML has been a staple of iOS and Watch updates for some time.
Let me repeat something you may have missed:
"It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since2017 but until this year notmuch was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones. "
NPUs first appeared on phones in 2017. It was only this year that Apple made it a major focus.
What is incredibly strange is I have a distinct memory of Apple making Face ID a major focus. I also remember Apple making afib detection a major focus. I have incredibly weird notation that every year Apple putting a huge amount of focus on image signed processing. I remember Apple drawing attention to Photos doing keyword searches. I remember Apple showing an Accessibility feature where the phone could described environments for individuals with disabilities related to sight. I remember Apple making a big deal about Palm detection on the iPad. I remember Apple showing features where iOS would offer things like playlists and directions in Maps based on user habits. There are many more examples.
These things are all ML/AI driven. Apple didn’t just start making ML/AI a focus this year.
Apple has been very focused on this for awhile. The challenge is that most people, yourself included, don’t actually know what AI is.
"Apple's attempts to keep up with the rest of the AI field has seen some surprising success. It has already implemented a lot of machine learning elements in iOS and other platforms, and on December 19, it published a paper on rapidly creating 3D avatars of humans from brief video clips."
Creating 3D avatars probably isn't significant in terms of 'keeping up' and its ML efforts have consistently seemed to get marketing attention after industry has already moved ahead from them.
It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since 2017 but until this year not much was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones.
You and I have been watching very different keynotes. Apple has been mentioning ML(Ai) in every keynote since they added the neural engine to their SOC. ML has been a staple of iOS and Watch updates for some time.
Let me repeat something you may have missed:
"It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since2017 but until this year notmuch was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones. "
NPUs first appeared on phones in 2017. It was only this year that Apple made it a major focus.
What is incredibly strange is I have a distinct memory of Apple making Face ID a major focus. I also remember Apple making afib detection a major focus. I have incredibly weird notation that every year Apple putting a huge amount of focus on image signed processing. I remember Apple drawing attention to Photos doing keyword searches. I remember Apple showing an Accessibility feature where the phone could described environments for individuals with disabilities related to sight. I remember Apple making a big deal about Palm detection on the iPad. I remember Apple showing features where iOS would offer things like playlists and directions in Maps based on user habits. There are many more examples.
These things are all ML/AI driven. Apple didn’t just start making ML/AI a focus this year.
Apple has been very focused on this for awhile. The challenge is that most people, yourself included, don’t actually know what AI is.
No one is doubting any of that but it's been drip fed. More could have been done.
Depth sensing is a classic example, seeing as you brought it up. Why didn't they push it more before? It took literally years for them to bring landscape FaceID unlock. Something that should have been there literally since day 1.
Are we really to believe that no one considered that users would need landscape unlock?
AOD? With depth sensing always on, why did they even bother with classic AOD when you can have AI-AOD? Just put something on the screen when someone is actually looking at it.
I don't know if they have finally implemented FaceID protection for people looking at your screen from behind you.
Small object 3D modeling with AI. Why wasn't that there years ago?
That's not major focus. That is bringing something to market and not really pushing it.
Not AI/ML related but why did it take so long to reduce the size of the notch? How were competitors able to beat FaceID on speed?
So much has gone into phones in terms of ML/AI and Apple just wasn't squeezing all the juice out of things.
This year was the first year it got some major time dedicated to it. Was there any other WWDC that dealt with ML like this year's? I don't remember one.
AI means a lot of things nowadays. It is very generic. I have no issue with that.
He missed the point entirely and your point boils down to your definition of 'true' which completely ignores what the OP might have meant and, IMO at least, seems very clear.
Apple's bread and butter remains hardware.
Google's bread and butter remains software.
Even though both of them produce hardware and software.
That is incredibly myopic. What do you think people buy that Apple hardware for? The software is what absolutely defines Apple products. You can’t delineate the two it’s a whole widget. Without the software Apple products are literally useless beyond being paper weights and doorstops. Nobody buys Apple hardware for the sake of the hardware. They buy them because id what the software can do with the hardware.
Strangedays is 100% correct. Apple is first and foremost as software company.
Some people can't seem the leave the beige box mentality so the concept of pairing HW and SW to create a groundbreaking UX is lost on them. They are a two-dimensional object unable to perceive the world in three dimensions.
Here's Steve Jobs quoting Alan Kay. This is what Apple, a company that focuses on SW — not counting the Elio for ad revenue — for the user experience, which we've seen countless times and are seeing again with Apple Vision instead of a bond mediocre, Google Glass- or Meta Quest-level experience.
What is worse many tech wizards/analysts keep trying to drag Apple back to the Microsoft, Intel solution, separate CPU and discrete GPU's inside a computer, 128, 192, 256, gig and above UMA memory is going to be quite useful going into the so-called AI future.
Though I praise the ethical stand point that Apple has taken, doing so will ensure their loss. The data that these companies will provide will be infinitely smaller than the huge mountains of data that companies such as OpenAI and Google have.
Also, having to rely on third parties will only slow them down. There are claims that regulations will be passed which may hinder companies such as Google which is scraping the internet for data, I assure you nothing like that will happen in the states. Currently, the world is in a race and no country can afford to be behind, no government (barring EU, duh) is foolish enough to hinder this fledgling field.
Also, Apple is a hardware company unlike Google which is a true software company, they have more areas to integrate and monetise AI.
Google has more money than Apple?
Apple isn't a "true" software company is what respect? Because they also design HW?
Both of them don't have a big difference in revenue generated, I don't think money is a problem to either of them.
Isn't Apple more akin to Samsung which sells hardware, and makes software to go along with that? Whereas, Google focuses on software and also has divisions such as Google Deepmind which is the leader of AI research, also possessing the world's fastest quantum computer.
Apple executes on a far different level than Google, Apple in the last 25 years has been far more effective building profitable new ecosystems, however the huge loads of money spent by the Googles (me too) follies is far beyond Apple. Most of it was spent on bribes, kickbacks and short-term tech flops.
Well, Apple is twice as old as Google as a starting point. Also, don't forget the bad phase Apple had to go through when it was almost going bankrupt.
I understand the love for Apple on an Apple site, but the creator of YouTube, Google maps, Google search, Gmail, Chrome, Google photos is more than the creator of a me too product.
Also, dare I say Google has played such a significant part in the creation/implementation of most modern web protocols to the point they are the reason the web exists in its current form. Their work in AI is also highly appreciated by the industry, most of which they have open-sourced.
I would personally not insult Apple because I respect them, but they aren't exactly the shining bastion of morality, as we have been finding out in recent times.
Aside from search everything Google does is me too and unusually they do it badly with short term focus.....The same applies to Microsoft and Samsung since 2007.
Maybe you haven't noticed, but Apple also have a list of "me too" products and services. Some of them are Pages / Numbers / Keynote, iCloud, HomePod, Apple TV+ and Apple Arcade / Apple TV as a gaming console. Is should include Siri on the list. At the end, no company is perfect, including Apple.
1) What OS came with a full fledged digital personal assistant before Apple integrated Siri.
2) What digital media streaming appliance did Apple ape back in 2006? I remember Apple doing a demo with the then named iTV (which they knew wouldn’t fly because of the BBC’s copyright). Before iOS it was based macOS Leopard(?) and Intel and only having Disney-owned content as a promised partner for its 2007 launch for rent or purchase. This was an obvious ploy to get other content owners to team up with Apple so that TV Shows and Movies could be had without a disc or tape. It was very slow going as they feared about pirating but the Apple TV was by far the most secure appliance. Apple won in the end but the appliance struggled because of this security reluctance. This was long before steaming services took root as a replacement to cable and satellite.
3) what would become Apple’s “iWork” app start back in 1982. A year before MS introduced what would become Word and had a spreadsheet app in the Apple ][ by1984, 3 years before Excel launched. Obviously long before Google existed. Spreadsheets apps existed before that. Even mainframes and mini computers had them decades before, as ai recall.
4) iCloud came from the failed MobileMe (which I fully blame Jobs’ for a litany of reasons that all come down to hubris), which came from .Mac, which was a branding of the amazing iTools which started in 2000. So tell me, what did Google have on the market that competed with iCloud when Google was a mere 15 months old.
"Apple's attempts to keep up with the rest of the AI field has seen some surprising success. It has already implemented a lot of machine learning elements in iOS and other platforms, and on December 19, it published a paper on rapidly creating 3D avatars of humans from brief video clips."
Creating 3D avatars probably isn't significant in terms of 'keeping up' and its ML efforts have consistently seemed to get marketing attention after industry has already moved ahead from them.
It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since 2017 but until this year not much was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones.
You and I have been watching very different keynotes. Apple has been mentioning ML(Ai) in every keynote since they added the neural engine to their SOC. ML has been a staple of iOS and Watch updates for some time.
Let me repeat something you may have missed:
"It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since2017 but until this year notmuch was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones. "
NPUs first appeared on phones in 2017. It was only this year that Apple made it a major focus.
That’s some bullshit. One’s inability to notice something doesn’t mean it hasn’t existed. I recall Eddy Cue and others talking about Apple’s ML efforts since at least 2017. Personally, when you make ML tools for developers and you design into your chips and build apps around iit you are giving it major attention
What you and others always fail to understand is that Apple tends to focus on marketing the user experience, not simply trying to make you focus on what a great potential widget something could be without a real follow through on utility that serves a need.
Has Google been focused on it since then or earlier? I don’t know, but you won’t hear me claiming they weren't because I don’t know.
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I understand the love for Apple on an Apple site, but the creator of YouTube, Google maps, Google search, Gmail, Chrome, Google photos is more than the creator of a me too product.
Also, dare I say Google has played such a significant part in the creation/implementation of most modern web protocols to the point they are the reason the web exists in its current form. Their work in AI is also highly appreciated by the industry, most of which they have open-sourced.
I would personally not insult Apple because I respect them, but they aren't exactly the shining bastion of morality, as we have been finding out in recent times.
You didn’t mention Apple in your comment about being a part of the modern web.do you not know that the World Wide Web was created (not acquired) on a NeXT machine, which is Steve Jobs company between running Apple; it’s the OS and apps (*cough* software *cough*) that Apple bought to make all their very modern OSes. An OS is the foundation of iOS that Android shamelessly copied.
You also don’t mention what Apple did to make a modern smartphone for the “Average Joe” when BlackBerry was king for nerds and business execs only.
Finally, you failed to even acknowledge Apple’s creation of the open source WebKit engine out of KHTML to make web browsing a fast and congruent experience across all device types. A browser engine that Alphabet (nee Google) happily used and still do, albeit in a forked variety.
<Are you saying Apple is a “me too” company? If so, I’d love to hear that argument. ߍ說mp;gt;
No, I only responded to a comment about Google.
<do you not know that the World Wide Web was created (not acquired) on a NeXT machine>
So? If I write a novel on Microsoft word does Microsoft get credit for that.
<it’s the OS and apps (*cough* software *cough*) that Apple bought to make all their very modern OSes.>
Which they did because the old MacOS was dated and they needed a replacement, if anything it proves the visionary genius of Steve Jobs. It kind of proves that Apple historically sucked at software.
<You also don’t mention what Apple did to make a modern smartphone for the “Average Joe” when BlackBerry was king for nerds and business execs only.>
Blackberry was only 'king' in the US and maybe among the business execs, didn't mean that the average Joe didn't uses Nokia or Motorola phones. Also, the concept of Nerd itself is unique to the US so anywhere else owning even Nokia phones was seen as a prestige symbol especially in developing nations.
<Apple’s creation of the open source WebKit engine out of KHTML to make web browsing a fast and congruent experience across all device types.>
So Apple forked a browser engine which was further forked by Google. Then why have all browser vendors switched to Chromium and not stayed with Webkit? It's because Apple has spent minimal resources in updating to standards. Developing for Safari is a nightmare compared to Chrome.
<An OS is the foundation of iOS that Android shamelessly copied>
Didn't MacOS copy from Xerox, why do they get a pass on it if you are willing to hold Android accountable.
"It was only really this year that ML got any major attention (WWDC2023) . It's been around on its phones since 2017 but until this year not much was really pushed and that's because up to recently perhaps it just wasn't being used as much as it was on competing phones. "
NPUs first appeared on phones in 2017. It was only this year that Apple made it a major focus.
Add to that all the other hardware derived revenue and you quickly see that Apple absolutely depends on hardware sales.
On the software side and especially for iPhone, what makes or breaks the success of the product insofar as revenues is concerned is actually software from third-party developers.
An iPhone without third party software would see iPhone sales drop off the chart.
The same applies, in a historical context, to Mac. Like iPhone, it has a system. Like iPhone, it has Apple applications and like iPhone, the Mac is first and foremost hardware dependent.
Here's Steve Jobs quoting Alan Kay. This is what Apple, a company that focuses on SW — not counting the Elio for ad revenue — for the user experience, which we've seen countless times and are seeing again with Apple Vision instead of a bond mediocre, Google Glass- or Meta Quest-level experience.
https://youtu.be/XAfTXYa36f4
These things are all ML/AI driven. Apple didn’t just start making ML/AI a focus this year.
Depth sensing is a classic example, seeing as you brought it up. Why didn't they push it more before? It took literally years for them to bring landscape FaceID unlock. Something that should have been there literally since day 1.
Are we really to believe that no one considered that users would need landscape unlock?
AOD? With depth sensing always on, why did they even bother with classic AOD when you can have AI-AOD? Just put something on the screen when someone is actually looking at it.
I don't know if they have finally implemented FaceID protection for people looking at your screen from behind you.
Small object 3D modeling with AI. Why wasn't that there years ago?
That's not major focus. That is bringing something to market and not really pushing it.
Not AI/ML related but why did it take so long to reduce the size of the notch? How were competitors able to beat FaceID on speed?
So much has gone into phones in terms of ML/AI and Apple just wasn't squeezing all the juice out of things.
This year was the first year it got some major time dedicated to it. Was there any other WWDC that dealt with ML like this year's? I don't remember one.
AI means a lot of things nowadays. It is very generic. I have no issue with that.
What is worse many tech wizards/analysts keep trying to drag Apple back to the Microsoft, Intel solution, separate CPU and discrete GPU's inside a computer, 128, 192, 256, gig and above UMA memory is going to be quite useful going into the so-called AI future.
personal assistant before Apple integrated Siri.
2) What digital media streaming appliance did Apple ape back in 2006? I remember Apple doing a demo with the then named iTV (which they knew wouldn’t fly because of the BBC’s copyright). Before iOS it was based macOS Leopard(?) and Intel and only having Disney-owned content as a promised partner for its 2007 launch for rent or purchase. This was an obvious ploy to get other content owners to team up with Apple so that TV Shows and Movies could be had without a disc or tape. It was very slow going as they feared about pirating but the Apple TV was by far the most secure appliance. Apple won in the end but the appliance struggled because of this security reluctance. This was long before steaming services took root as a replacement to cable and satellite.
3) what would become Apple’s “iWork” app start back in 1982. A year before MS introduced what would become Word and had a spreadsheet app in the Apple ][ by1984, 3 years before Excel launched. Obviously long before Google existed. Spreadsheets apps existed before that. Even mainframes and mini computers had them decades before, as ai recall.
4) iCloud came from the failed MobileMe (which I fully blame Jobs’ for a litany of reasons that all come down to hubris), which came from .Mac, which was a branding of the amazing iTools which started in 2000. So tell
me, what did Google have on the market that competed with iCloud when Google was a mere 15 months old.
Has Google been focused on it since then or earlier? I don’t know, but you won’t hear me claiming they weren't because I don’t know.