Apple is correct in stating there are five stores because the software available in each store only works on a specific platform. This is like saying a company that owns a pharmacy, sporting goods store, hardware store, grocery store and electronics store is required to call all of them one store, maybe called PSHGE, instead of five different stores carrying different products. There are many companies that have multiple store fronts with different names that keep their stores separate. (don't ask me specifics, because I don't care to research this but take a company like Whirlpool, who makes all kinds of brands of household products, each having a store under the brand's name)
As for anything the EU does, it's time they quit trying to run another country's product line. I'm sorry but anything related to current computers and operating systems rarely is created in EU countries anymore. Sure, you can find a few high tech companies in the EU but not as many as before and nowhere near as many as in the USA.
The “different” stores are just a filter depending on the device.
By that logic, Amazon.com, and the Amazon app are separate stores too because they don’t have the same products available to buy.
Logically that makes no sense, but that’s the argument Apple is trying to make here.
if anything the App Store is a single store, but with different departments for each device type… some products may be stocked in two places, some may be exclusive to one.
On the backend developers have a single portal and whether an app is shown on a certain device is a simple checkbox… especially in the case of macOS because it can natively run iOS / iPadOS apps.
caskey said: The more correct analogy would be to say they were like a GameStop. They sell games for X Box PlayStation and Nintendo…different platforms, but it’s still one marketplace.
It's not like GameStop. The Mac App Store only sells Mac versions of games. The iPhone App Store only sells iPhone versions of games. Etc.
And if you buy a Mac, Apple doesn't give you an iPhone/iPad/ATV/Watch along with it. You buy all those things separately.
Then why can I buy a game on iOS and get the same game on macOS for no extra charge?
The Mac App Store absolutely sells you iOS apps, it’s just up to the developer if they don’t want to.
As for anything the EU does, it's time they quit trying to run another country's product line. I'm sorry but anything related to current computers and operating systems rarely is created in EU countries anymore. Sure, you can find a few high tech companies in the EU but not as many as before and nowhere near as many as in the USA.
It's not where a product is created that is important here, it's simply whether or not a product is sold in the EU that matters to the EU regulators. Doesn't matter if the product is created in America, Japan, China, Vietnam, the EU, wherever... the number of high tech companies in Europe compared to America is completely irrelevant.
It does matter where the product is created though. Why should someone literally on the other side of the planet have any say about what I do? They are trying to force their views upon us. Look, I think it’s fine that they want things a certain way. I’m cool with that, but they aren’t doing that. They are forcing a company that isn’t in their area of control to do something that they shouldn’t have to deal with. They should have done this 20 years ago if it meant that much to them. Same with the whole usb-c thing. “Trying to save landfills from e-waste.” Created a decades worth of e-waste from literally every country all around the planet. Good job at stopping waste, because usb-c will totally be around in a decade and it’s going to take that long to stop the lightning cables from being around. It’s stupid. You want to stop waste? This is where you stop it. Stopping the EU from doing stupid stuff. They got away with the ridiculous waste of usb-c, now you want them to run app stores? There will be many more power hungry server farms now. So, more e-waste, more power hungry server farms that use coal for power. Good job EU!
The EU has a say because Apple sells their products there. Governments have the power to regulate stuff being sold in their borders.
if Apple doesn’t want to comply, they’re absolutely free to stop selling all products in the EU and there’s nothing they’d be able to do about it then.
On the flip side, do you also think the U.S. shouldn’t be able to regulate products from other countries that are being sold in the U.S.?
I mean, the counterfeit AirPods are fine in China, so why is the U.S. interfering with the sale of them?
If the EU persists in this, Apple could separate its App Store into two different App Stores: * one in the EU where only EU developers could upload code, and * one for the rest of the world where the rest of the world could sell there software. Nobody from the EU could sell apps in the worldwide store, and nobody from outside the EU could sell apps in the EU store.
They could, but they won’t… are you aware of just how many apps are developed by EU developers? It’s an international marketplace, and isolating them like that would hurt everyone
If the EU persists in this, Apple could separate its App Store into two different App Stores: * one in the EU where only EU developers could upload code, and * one for the rest of the world where the rest of the world could sell there software. Nobody from the EU could sell apps in the worldwide store, and nobody from outside the EU could sell apps in the EU store.
Apple wouldn't be able to earn 30% on apps from EU developers and Apple would block Google, MS, Facebook etc. from the iPhone in 27 countries and make iPhone less interesting to EU customers due to reduced number of apps. How would Apple benefit from any of that?
Apple Arcade still requires unique versions of the app for each OS and type of hardware that it runs on. I play NBA2K all the time on Apple Arcade and that game is definitely not identical on each platform. I think Apple does have a valid point with this.
Think about AAA games that are available on Windows, Playstation, Xbox and Switch.
And game consoles require different versions for each console too… but that doesn’t mean a single location selling games for all platforms is a different store for each one.
An Apple developer has the option of making a universal binary compatible with all Apple platforms, but a lot choose to release them as separate apps limited to each platform for whatever reason.
Theres one App Store management portal for developers, and developers get paid from one legal entity for the App Store. App Store can share universal binaries, or developers can choose to restrict them to certain platforms.
If the EU persists in this, Apple could separate its App Store into two different App Stores: * one in the EU where only EU developers could upload code, and * one for the rest of the world where the rest of the world could sell there software. Nobody from the EU could sell apps in the worldwide store, and nobody from outside the EU could sell apps in the EU store.
Apple wouldn't be able to earn 30% on apps from EU developers and Apple would block Google, MS, Facebook etc. from the iPhone in 27 countries and make iPhone less interesting to EU customers due to reduced number of apps. How would Apple benefit from any of that?
A chump on the internet gets his petty feeling of superiority. That's what they get.
You can buy iOS (iPadOS) apps in the iOS store that can be also used on Apple Silicon Macs. But in the end it does not matter – the relevant App Store is the iOS store and I guess this would be what EU is after.
You can buy iOS (iPadOS) apps in the iOS store that can be also used on Apple Silicon Macs. But in the end it does not matter – the relevant App Store is the iOS store and I guess this would be what EU is after.
The relevant store is the “App Store”. There’s just as much issue in iPad and Apple TV as there is on iOS… you could maybe even argue there’s more of an issue in Apple TV because there’s no web browser for people to sign up for services with, or for apps to direct them to.
caskey said: The more correct analogy would be to say they were like a GameStop. They sell games for X Box PlayStation and Nintendo…different platforms, but it’s still one marketplace.
It's not like GameStop. The Mac App Store only sells Mac versions of games. The iPhone App Store only sells iPhone versions of games. Etc.
And if you buy a Mac, Apple doesn't give you an iPhone/iPad/ATV/Watch along with it. You buy all those things separately.
Then why can I buy a game on iOS and get the same game on macOS for no extra charge?
The Mac App Store absolutely sells you iOS apps, it’s just up to the developer if they don’t want to.
What difference does that make? You bought the iOS version on iOS. You're not buying the Mac version on your iPhone and vice versa. If I bought an Xbox Series X game that gave me access to a free download of the same game on Steam for Windows PC that doesn't really mean that Microsoft Store/Steam are the same thing.
dantheman827 said: An Apple developer has the option of making a universal binary compatible with all Apple platforms, but a lot choose to release them as separate apps limited to each platform for whatever reason.
"Whatever reason" = maximizing revenue. The vast majority of apps don't work like that AND you don't have access to any version of the app in any store.
gatorguy said: The difference? Most of the Walmart store products, outside of the first-party ones, can be purchased at another big store, either virtual or physical, ones such as Target or Amazon.
The difference is that Apple created the hardware and the operating system that the apps run on, not just the store that they're sold in. So there is direct 1st party involvement in all of the 3rd party apps being sold. Apple's improvement of both hardware and OS functionality and performance directly benefits the 3rd parties. Walmart is a middleman. Apple is not. If Apple was satisfied with just selling Macs and macOS then that's all that 3rd parties could develop for. Adding iPhones and iPads and Apple Watch and Apple TV and now Vision Pro is entirely Apple's doing.
caskey said: The more correct analogy would be to say they were like a GameStop. They sell games for X Box PlayStation and Nintendo…different platforms, but it’s still one marketplace.
It's not like GameStop. The Mac App Store only sells Mac versions of games. The iPhone App Store only sells iPhone versions of games. Etc.
And if you buy a Mac, Apple doesn't give you an iPhone/iPad/ATV/Watch along with it. You buy all those things separately.
Then why can I buy a game on iOS and get the same game on macOS for no extra charge?
The Mac App Store absolutely sells you iOS apps, it’s just up to the developer if they don’t want to.
What difference does that make? You bought the iOS version on iOS. You're not buying the Mac version on your iPhone and vice versa. If I bought an Xbox Series X game that gave me access to a free download of the same game on Steam for Windows PC that doesn't really mean that Microsoft Store/Steam are the same thing.
Xbox and Steam are entirely different stores run by different companies, but the Windows Store and Xbox store can to an extent be considered the same store.
They don’t offer all of the same content, but the billing is unified, and many games are available as a single purchase for both Xbox and Windows via means of the single store.
The same is true for Steam… you buy something once, and you can download all compatible versions on any of the supported platforms, but that doesn’t mean Valve is operating three separate stores… just because a developer doesn’t offer a compatible version (or in the case of the App Store, tick a box) doesn’t mean it isn’t the same store.
caskey said: The more correct analogy would be to say they were like a GameStop. They sell games for X Box PlayStation and Nintendo…different platforms, but it’s still one marketplace.
It's not like GameStop. The Mac App Store only sells Mac versions of games. The iPhone App Store only sells iPhone versions of games. Etc.
And if you buy a Mac, Apple doesn't give you an iPhone/iPad/ATV/Watch along with it. You buy all those things separately.
Then why can I buy a game on iOS and get the same game on macOS for no extra charge?
The Mac App Store absolutely sells you iOS apps, it’s just up to the developer if they don’t want to.
... that doesn't really mean that Microsoft Store/Steam are the same thing.
Because they are not. They are separate entities by separate companies. You (and Apple) are not going to win this argument. When you buy a Watch band at Apple Retail, you're buying from a different store than when you buy a Mac at Apple Retail? Of course not.
If Apple had not always held this opinion of the separate app stores, the EU would probably be right to overrule them.
But because they have indeed set up five separate App Stores, with VERY different requirements (from a developer perspective) for products, the EU should properly rule as they did with the OSes — they are five distinct OSes, even if they are all extrapolated from UNIX.
I am old enough to remember back when TRS-80s could run NEWDOS, which was a wholly different OS than TRSDOS, but fundamentally they did the same thing: control the computer and run apps. They were even written in the same language.
This is the same idea again, and I think the EU should rule in Apple’s favour.
If the EU persists in this, Apple could separate its App Store into two different App Stores: * one in the EU where only EU developers could upload code, and * one for the rest of the world where the rest of the world could sell there software. Nobody from the EU could sell apps in the worldwide store, and nobody from outside the EU could sell apps in the EU store.
Apple wouldn't be able to earn 30% on apps from EU developers and Apple would block Google, MS, Facebook etc. from the iPhone in 27 countries and make iPhone less interesting to EU customers due to reduced number of apps. How would Apple benefit from any of that?
So you think it's better for Apple to do anything that the EU ever demands?
If Apple had not always held this opinion of the separate app stores, the EU would probably be right to overrule them.
But because they have indeed set up five separate App Stores, with VERY different requirements (from a developer perspective) for products, the EU should properly rule as they did with the OSes — they are five distinct OSes, even if they are all extrapolated from UNIX.
I am old enough to remember back when TRS-80s could run NEWDOS, which was a wholly different OS than TRSDOS, but fundamentally they did the same thing: control the computer and run apps. They were even written in the same language.
This is the same idea again, and I think the EU should rule in Apple’s favour.
Open the app store, on any Apple device, and open an app, there is a section that shows which Apple devices support the particular app. Seems that it's just one app store on multiple platforms.
Apple has always maintained them as a single App store( same logo, name etc.) that isn't the case for their various operating systems, each of them has a unique name and is marketed differently.
If the EU persists in this, Apple could separate its App Store into two different App Stores: * one in the EU where only EU developers could upload code, and * one for the rest of the world where the rest of the world could sell there software. Nobody from the EU could sell apps in the worldwide store, and nobody from outside the EU could sell apps in the EU store.
Apple wouldn't be able to earn 30% on apps from EU developers and Apple would block Google, MS, Facebook etc. from the iPhone in 27 countries and make iPhone less interesting to EU customers due to reduced number of apps. How would Apple benefit from any of that?
So you think it's better for Apple to do anything that the EU ever demands?
All of the new regulations are made for the benefit of customers, not any company.
One other fact is, this law is to be enforced upon all companies, why is it Apple is making the biggest stink? Maybe they have gotten too used to the American government ignoring them, or the American people being fanboys, that they find anything else extraordinary.
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By that logic, Amazon.com, and the Amazon app are separate stores too because they don’t have the same products available to buy.
Logically that makes no sense, but that’s the argument Apple is trying to make here.
if anything the App Store is a single store, but with different departments for each device type… some products may be stocked in two places, some may be exclusive to one.
On the backend developers have a single portal and whether an app is shown on a certain device is a simple checkbox… especially in the case of macOS because it can natively run iOS / iPadOS apps.
The Mac App Store absolutely sells you iOS apps, it’s just up to the developer if they don’t want to.
if Apple doesn’t want to comply, they’re absolutely free to stop selling all products in the EU and there’s nothing they’d be able to do about it then.
On the flip side, do you also think the U.S. shouldn’t be able to regulate products from other countries that are being sold in the U.S.?
I mean, the counterfeit AirPods are fine in China, so why is the U.S. interfering with the sale of them?
An Apple developer has the option of making a universal binary compatible with all Apple platforms, but a lot choose to release them as separate apps limited to each platform for whatever reason.
Theres one App Store management portal for developers, and developers get paid from one legal entity for the App Store. App Store can share universal binaries, or developers can choose to restrict them to certain platforms.
But in the end it does not matter – the relevant App Store is the iOS store and I guess this would be what EU is after.
Their gift cards also work for buying a computer, a phone, or an Apple Watch band, or paying for a battery replacement or iPad display replacement.
"Whatever reason" = maximizing revenue. The vast majority of apps don't work like that AND you don't have access to any version of the app in any store.
The difference is that Apple created the hardware and the operating system that the apps run on, not just the store that they're sold in. So there is direct 1st party involvement in all of the 3rd party apps being sold. Apple's improvement of both hardware and OS functionality and performance directly benefits the 3rd parties. Walmart is a middleman. Apple is not. If Apple was satisfied with just selling Macs and macOS then that's all that 3rd parties could develop for. Adding iPhones and iPads and Apple Watch and Apple TV and now Vision Pro is entirely Apple's doing.
They don’t offer all of the same content, but the billing is unified, and many games are available as a single purchase for both Xbox and Windows via means of the single store.
The same is true for Steam… you buy something once, and you can download all compatible versions on any of the supported platforms, but that doesn’t mean Valve is operating three separate stores… just because a developer doesn’t offer a compatible version (or in the case of the App Store, tick a box) doesn’t mean it isn’t the same store.
Apple has always maintained them as a single App store( same logo, name etc.) that isn't the case for their various operating systems, each of them has a unique name and is marketed differently.
One other fact is, this law is to be enforced upon all companies, why is it Apple is making the biggest stink? Maybe they have gotten too used to the American government ignoring them, or the American people being fanboys, that they find anything else extraordinary.