EU antitrust chief to Tim Cook: Apple must allow third-party app stores

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 74
    danox said:
    Who else thought that was a photo of two dudes shaking hands? 
    Margrethe Vestager is married to the same person since 1994 and has three kids you are way off with that cheap shot.
    From the angle of the shot and the masculine looking coat, it would be easy to mistake her for a him — what’s the big deal?

    I’m sure what the point of her visit is — other than a power status move to make herself think she is somehow on the same level as the CEOs of the largest tech companies in the world — these companies that innovate, produce, and employ.  What exactly does Vestager do?
    edited January 13 AllMpulseimageswatto_cobra9secondkox2
  • Reply 22 of 74
    As an Apple shareholder, I would demand that any third party App Store, pay upfront their fair share to Apple for all R&D, marketing, IP, transportation, security and other associated yearly expenses and costs that Apple bears in making and maintaining its various devices and associated software products. 
    AllMkillroyBart Ywatto_cobra9secondkox2
  • Reply 23 of 74
    bulk001bulk001 Posts: 771member
    glennh said:
    As an Apple shareholder, I would demand that any third party App Store, pay upfront their fair share to Apple for all R&D, marketing, IP, transportation, security and other associated yearly expenses and costs that Apple bears in making and maintaining its various devices and associated software products. 
    The walled garden is going away. The iPhone and iPad will move more and more to the Mac model. You are going to have to start learning to deal with it and decide how you want to move forward with your investment. Apple is going to have to start learning to deal with it too. Then have become too dependent on the iPhone and a watch, self driving car, weather app, and VR are not going to move the company forward like the iPhone did. Cook has done a great job generating iterative changes to make money but under his leadership Apple has missed on search, cloud, AI etc. In comparison MS moved into other areas after they lost the phone wars and somehow managed to closed on Friday as the world’s most valuable company, doing it without a phone type device or a map app. 
    9secondkox2muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 24 of 74
    AllMAllM Posts: 71member
    bulk001 said:
    glennh said:
    As an Apple shareholder, I would demand that any third party App Store, pay upfront their fair share to Apple for all R&D, marketing, IP, transportation, security and other associated yearly expenses and costs that Apple bears in making and maintaining its various devices and associated software products. 
    The walled garden is going away. The iPhone and iPad will move more and more to the Mac model. You are going to have to start learning to deal with it and decide how you want to move forward with your investment. Apple is going to have to start learning to deal with it too. Then have become too dependent on the iPhone and a watch, self driving car, weather app, and VR are not going to move the company forward like the iPhone did. Cook has done a great job generating iterative changes to make money but under his leadership Apple has missed on search, cloud, AI etc. In comparison MS moved into other areas after they lost the phone wars and somehow managed to closed on Friday as the world’s most valuable company, doing it without a phone type device or a map app. 
    Today, it’s Apple. Tomorrow, it’s America. The fewer Nordic socialist types on American soil, the better. 

    P.S. MS don’t produce jack in consumer electronics. If you ain’t no boring corporate type, you’ll hardly ever buy anything from them. 
    edited January 13 killroyBart Ywatto_cobra9secondkox2
  • Reply 25 of 74
    AllM said:
    bulk001 said:
    glennh said:
    As an Apple shareholder, I would demand that any third party App Store, pay upfront their fair share to Apple for all R&D, marketing, IP, transportation, security and other associated yearly expenses and costs that Apple bears in making and maintaining its various devices and associated software products. 
    The walled garden is going away. The iPhone and iPad will move more and more to the Mac model. You are going to have to start learning to deal with it and decide how you want to move forward with your investment. Apple is going to have to start learning to deal with it too. Then have become too dependent on the iPhone and a watch, self driving car, weather app, and VR are not going to move the company forward like the iPhone did. Cook has done a great job generating iterative changes to make money but under his leadership Apple has missed on search, cloud, AI etc. In comparison MS moved into other areas after they lost the phone wars and somehow managed to closed on Friday as the world’s most valuable company, doing it without a phone type device or a map app. 
    Today, it’s Apple. Tomorrow, it’s America. The fewer Nordic socialist types on American soil, the better. 

    P.S. MS don’t produce jack in consumer electronics. If you ain’t no boring corporate type, you’ll hardly ever buy anything from them. 
    ...or if you are a gamer. Windows is the only option for gamers, no one is going to buy a Mac.

    (Which is kinda hilarious if you remember how Apple portrayed Windows in the Mac vs PC ads)
    9secondkox2
  • Reply 26 of 74
    AllM said:
    bulk001 said:
    glennh said:
    As an Apple shareholder, I would demand that any third party App Store, pay upfront their fair share to Apple for all R&D, marketing, IP, transportation, security and other associated yearly expenses and costs that Apple bears in making and maintaining its various devices and associated software products. 
    The walled garden is going away. The iPhone and iPad will move more and more to the Mac model. You are going to have to start learning to deal with it and decide how you want to move forward with your investment. Apple is going to have to start learning to deal with it too. Then have become too dependent on the iPhone and a watch, self driving car, weather app, and VR are not going to move the company forward like the iPhone did. Cook has done a great job generating iterative changes to make money but under his leadership Apple has missed on search, cloud, AI etc. In comparison MS moved into other areas after they lost the phone wars and somehow managed to closed on Friday as the world’s most valuable company, doing it without a phone type device or a map app. 
    Today, it’s Apple. Tomorrow, it’s America. The fewer Nordic socialist types on American soil, the better. 

    P.S. MS don’t produce jack in consumer electronics. If you ain’t no boring corporate type, you’ll hardly ever buy anything from them. 
    ...or if you are a gamer. Windows is the only option for gamers, no one is going to buy a Mac.

    (Which is kinda hilarious if you remember how Apple portrayed Windows in the Mac vs PC ads)
    LOL...mobile gaming revenue is larger than Windows/console gaming revenue combined. That's one of the reasons Epic/Microsoft went running to legislators with an army of lobbyists in order to try and force Apple to allow third party stores. Success in EU, failure in US. 
    killroyBart Ywatto_cobra9secondkox2
  • Reply 27 of 74
    AniMillAniMill Posts: 176member
    Apple could create a new phone exclusively for the EU called ePhone which uses the same hardware as the iPhone but runs Android instead. Then Europe will have to complain to Google which writes the OS for it.
    Why do I absolutely love this idea. It’s absurd but hilariously great. 😎
    9secondkox2
  • Reply 28 of 74
    blastdoor said:
    It works reasonably well on the Mac, but it does add complexity for the user. 

    The complexity begins with adding another store. I imagine that most consumers will stick with the default store and never even know that others exist.
    watto_cobra9secondkox2
  • Reply 29 of 74
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,624member
    AllM said:
    I don’t get it. Why won’t Vestager mention any kind of obligation for developers to also publish on Apple’s App Store? Otherwise, this would be a massive intrusion into my private life as a customer. Suppose Adobe or whatnot decided they’d distribute their software through their own ‘store’ only. That would effectively force their customers to use that ‘store’ with possibly zero quality control assured. 


    Why is that a problem? 

    Right now, there are probably (tens of?) thousands of apps not being sold at all because developers can't or won't comply with the App Store terms. 

    If Adobe puts up their own distribution service, it'll work the same way it has for a while now on MacOS and on Windows. 
    9secondkox2
  • Reply 30 of 74
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,624member
    AllM said:
    bulk001 said:
    glennh said:
    As an Apple shareholder, I would demand that any third party App Store, pay upfront their fair share to Apple for all R&D, marketing, IP, transportation, security and other associated yearly expenses and costs that Apple bears in making and maintaining its various devices and associated software products. 
    The walled garden is going away. The iPhone and iPad will move more and more to the Mac model. You are going to have to start learning to deal with it and decide how you want to move forward with your investment. Apple is going to have to start learning to deal with it too. Then have become too dependent on the iPhone and a watch, self driving car, weather app, and VR are not going to move the company forward like the iPhone did. Cook has done a great job generating iterative changes to make money but under his leadership Apple has missed on search, cloud, AI etc. In comparison MS moved into other areas after they lost the phone wars and somehow managed to closed on Friday as the world’s most valuable company, doing it without a phone type device or a map app. 
    Today, it’s Apple. Tomorrow, it’s America. The fewer Nordic socialist types on American soil, the better. 

    P.S. MS don’t produce jack in consumer electronics. If you ain’t no boring corporate type, you’ll hardly ever buy anything from them. 
    I don't know. I see quite a few Surface tablets at university. Not nearly as many as Macs and iPads, but still. 
    killroy9secondkox2
  • Reply 31 of 74
    nubusnubus Posts: 474member

    I’m sure what the point of her visit is — other than a power status move to make herself think she is somehow on the same level as the CEOs of the largest tech companies in the world — these companies that innovate, produce, and employ.  What exactly does Vestager do?
    Vestager was elected by governments from 27 countries and confirmed by the directly elected EU parliament to ensure that the EU market is fair to all companies. That is in the interest of all. Her task is to deliver on that democratic mandate, and that is exactly what she is doing. You might not agree witn 27 countries, but you really can't blame Vestager. And talking innovation - Apple Music isn't innovation. It is blatant copy of Spotify where Apple uses the gatekeeper position of App Store to kill competition in an unrelated market. And Apple taking 30% of the revenue from app-developers? The Mac has shown that Apple can make something that is secure and easy to use - without taking 30% away from developers.
    9secondkox2muthuk_vanalingamRespitespheric
  • Reply 32 of 74
    nubus said:

    I’m sure what the point of her visit is — other than a power status move to make herself think she is somehow on the same level as the CEOs of the largest tech companies in the world — these companies that innovate, produce, and employ.  What exactly does Vestager do?
    Vestager was elected by governments from 27 countries and confirmed by the directly elected EU parliament to ensure that the EU market is fair to all companies. That is in the interest of all. Her task is to deliver on that democratic mandate, and that is exactly what she is doing. You might not agree witn 27 countries, but you really can't blame Vestager. And talking innovation - Apple Music isn't innovation. It is blatant copy of Spotify where Apple uses the gatekeeper position of App Store to kill competition in an unrelated market. And Apple taking 30% of the revenue from app-developers? The Mac has shown that Apple can make something that is secure and easy to use - without taking 30% away from developers.
    Spotify wasn’t the first to offer music streaming, so does that mean they aren’t innovative?  Did they just blatantly copy Pandora?  Did Disney, Paramount, etc, etc blatantly copy Netflix?  The concept isn’t the innovation — it is the implementation and differentiation.  Spotify offers some things that are unique, and so does Apple Music.  It is foolish to say one company copied another when we don’t know, especially with software, what is being worked on behind the scenes.

    And regarding the 30% — what Apple created was a vibrant economy for software developers that didn’t exist at that scale or low cost before.  You need to understand that software used to cost much more to distribute before the App Store.  Apple cut this cost in half and simplified everything — billing, storage, etc.  The fact that Apple really had their hand in creating the mobile app economy we have today is lost on Vestager and her fellow politicians.  They don’t understand the technology or have the ability to step back and look at the big picture.  They are so focused on the micro that they disregard the macro.
    StrangeDaysBart Ywatto_cobra9secondkox2
  • Reply 33 of 74
    AllMAllM Posts: 71member
    nubus said:

    I’m sure what the point of her visit is — other than a power status move to make herself think she is somehow on the same level as the CEOs of the largest tech companies in the world — these companies that innovate, produce, and employ.  What exactly does Vestager do?
    Vestager was elected by governments from 27 countries and confirmed by the directly elected EU parliament to ensure that the EU market is fair to all companies. That is in the interest of all. Her task is to deliver on that democratic mandate, and that is exactly what she is doing. You might not agree witn 27 countries, but you really can't blame Vestager. And talking innovation - Apple Music isn't innovation. It is blatant copy of Spotify where Apple uses the gatekeeper position of App Store to kill competition in an unrelated market. And Apple taking 30% of the revenue from app-developers? The Mac has shown that Apple can make something that is secure and easy to use - without taking 30% away from developers.
    Spotify sucks. Last time I checked they wouldn't even let you download the tracks one by one, forcing you to get entire albums, playlists, or whatnot. 
    Bart Ywatto_cobra9secondkox2
  • Reply 34 of 74
    KTR said:
    I personally think if Steve Jobs was still alive, he would pull out of the EU

    The single largest trading bloc outside the USA? Really?

    9secondkox2spheric
  • Reply 35 of 74
    nubusnubus Posts: 474member
    regarding the 30% — what Apple created was a vibrant economy for software developers that didn’t exist at that scale or low cost before.  You need to understand that software used to cost much more to distribute before the App Store.  
    Software distribution + resellers often get less than 10% combined. App Store made things a lot more expensive for developers. No wonder a lot of Mac apps aren't available in App Store + Apple took jobs from distribution and resellers.

    And so what about Apple being an enabler? I don't pay Mercedes 30% of my salary for being able to drive to work. You might disagree with the EU Parliament and the actions taken by those elected. So what? Realpolitik doesn't care about that.
    9secondkox2
  • Reply 36 of 74
    bulk001bulk001 Posts: 771member
    AllM said:
    bulk001 said:
    glennh said:
    As an Apple shareholder, I would demand that any third party App Store, pay upfront their fair share to Apple for all R&D, marketing, IP, transportation, security and other associated yearly expenses and costs that Apple bears in making and maintaining its various devices and associated software products. 
    The walled garden is going away. The iPhone and iPad will move more and more to the Mac model. You are going to have to start learning to deal with it and decide how you want to move forward with your investment. Apple is going to have to start learning to deal with it too. Then have become too dependent on the iPhone and a watch, self driving car, weather app, and VR are not going to move the company forward like the iPhone did. Cook has done a great job generating iterative changes to make money but under his leadership Apple has missed on search, cloud, AI etc. In comparison MS moved into other areas after they lost the phone wars and somehow managed to closed on Friday as the world’s most valuable company, doing it without a phone type device or a map app. 
    Today, it’s Apple. Tomorrow, it’s America. The fewer Nordic socialist types on American soil, the better. 

    P.S. MS don’t produce jack in consumer electronics. If you ain’t no boring corporate type, you’ll hardly ever buy anything from them. 
    Snowflakes galore on the crazy side of life! 
    AllM9secondkox2Respite
  • Reply 37 of 74
    How about Apple says OK we will allow apps to be side loaded but only if the EU warrants to compensate all damage done by side loaded viruses, all data breeches caused by being forced to open the eco system - Apple should push this hard - the EU may have good intentions (and GPDR is a good thing in the main) but they are way off line with this particular issue. IMHO
    AllMBart Ywatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 74
    AllMAllM Posts: 71member
    bulk001 said:
    AllM said:
    bulk001 said:
    glennh said:
    As an Apple shareholder, I would demand that any third party App Store, pay upfront their fair share to Apple for all R&D, marketing, IP, transportation, security and other associated yearly expenses and costs that Apple bears in making and maintaining its various devices and associated software products. 
    The walled garden is going away. The iPhone and iPad will move more and more to the Mac model. You are going to have to start learning to deal with it and decide how you want to move forward with your investment. Apple is going to have to start learning to deal with it too. Then have become too dependent on the iPhone and a watch, self driving car, weather app, and VR are not going to move the company forward like the iPhone did. Cook has done a great job generating iterative changes to make money but under his leadership Apple has missed on search, cloud, AI etc. In comparison MS moved into other areas after they lost the phone wars and somehow managed to closed on Friday as the world’s most valuable company, doing it without a phone type device or a map app. 
    Today, it’s Apple. Tomorrow, it’s America. The fewer Nordic socialist types on American soil, the better. 

    P.S. MS don’t produce jack in consumer electronics. If you ain’t no boring corporate type, you’ll hardly ever buy anything from them. 
    Snowflakes galore on the crazy side of life! 
    Again, we'll talk when this has (adversely) affected your user experience and your wallet. 
    watto_cobra9secondkox2
  • Reply 39 of 74
    Surely there’s a way to enable 3rd party app stores while still ensuring Apple to get their usual and well deserved percentage. 

    Say a new developer account type with this type of signing including a framework for tracking and reporting installs no matter where or how it is distributed. 

    So Apple bills Adobe a set amount for all end-user installs from their developer account. 
    Might be a nice earner for Apple as Adobe would also have to pay Apple for all the pirate installs of their apps too ߘ⦡mp;nbsp;
    edited January 13 watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 74
    Locking Instagram inside the Facebook App Store might have some benefits.

    Perhaps alternate app stores will be more successful on iOS than they have been on Android.


    edited January 13 9secondkox2
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