I wonder if Apple could force sideloaded apps to exist in a sandbox, locked and isolated from everything else.
Granted the user may grant access to Contact, photos, etc, but maybe it would contain nefarious apps.
Have no idea how this works.
All apps run in a sandbox even now. Apple could also copy Google's Play protect which periodically scans the phone for malware and viruses so even third party installs are secure.
Some time ago I tried to side load a pirated movie app on Android and Play Protect warned me that the app had malicious code.
Are you kidding? What about those reports about how there are way more pieces of malware on Android than iOS…periodic scanning didn’t make it secure
As an Apple shareholder, I would demand that any third party App Store, pay upfront their fair share to Apple for all R&D, marketing, IP, transportation, security and other associated yearly expenses and costs that Apple bears in making and maintaining its various devices and associated software products.
The walled garden is going away. The iPhone and iPad will move more and more to the Mac model. You are going to have to start learning to deal with it and decide how you want to move forward with your investment. Apple is going to have to start learning to deal with it too. Then have become too dependent on the iPhone and a watch, self driving car, weather app, and VR are not going to move the company forward like the iPhone did. Cook has done a great job generating iterative changes to make money but under his leadership Apple has missed on search, cloud, AI etc. In comparison MS moved into other areas after they lost the phone wars and somehow managed to closed on Friday as the world’s most valuable company, doing it without a phone type device or a map app.
Nonsense. Apple has implemented an extremely reliable cloud infrastructure since before it was cool. Why do you think messages and notifications and iTunes purchases work so well?
Apple is not a search company. And yet, file searching on my Mac is DAY & NIGHT better than on my work Windows machine. On Windows I can write a text file and search for words in it and get back…nothing. Worse, web results! On Mac I get my file back.
AI? Pfft. Yes because of some beta search engine for search companies, now Apple’s missed? Yeah no buddy. AI is the next NFT hype. Every software shop under the sun is claiming AI is their secret sauce for HR software, etc etc.. They aren’t doing anything Apple isn’t, guaranteed.
regarding the 30% — what Apple created was a vibrant economy for software developers that didn’t exist at that scale or low cost before. You need to understand that software used to cost much more to distribute before the App Store.
Software distribution + resellers often get less than 10% combined. App Store made things a lot more expensive for developers. No wonder a lot of Mac apps aren't available in App Store + Apple took jobs from distribution and resellers.
And so what about Apple being an enabler? I don't pay Mercedes 30% of my salary for being able to drive to work. You might disagree with the EU Parliament and the actions taken by those elected. So what? Realpolitik doesn't care about that.
Absolutely false. Tell me you’ve never sold a SKU in retrial without telling me…. Distributor and retailer added MUCH more than 10% to the final price. Look up keystone pricing. Distributing software in retail channels used to be much more expensive.
regarding the 30% — what Apple created was a vibrant economy for software developers that didn’t exist at that scale or low cost before. You need to understand that software used to cost much more to distribute before the App Store.
Software distribution + resellers often get less than 10% combined. App Store made things a lot more expensive for developers. No wonder a lot of Mac apps aren't available in App Store + Apple took jobs from distribution and resellers.
And so what about Apple being an enabler? I don't pay Mercedes 30% of my salary for being able to drive to work. You might disagree with the EU Parliament and the actions taken by those elected. So what? Realpolitik doesn't care about that.
Absolutely false. Tell me you’ve never sold a SKU in retrial without telling me…. Distributor and retailer added MUCH more than 10% to the final price. Look up keystone pricing. Distributing software in retail channels used to be much more expensive.
Right on. Many are oblivious to what software development and distribution looked like pre-App Store. Software through the App Store is 30% to distribution and 70% to the developer — before it was pretty much flipped — 70% to distribution and 30% to the developer. So many, including politicians, are ignorant to this. Apple has had quite a hand in democratizing software development.
As an Apple shareholder, I would demand that any third party App Store, pay upfront their fair share to Apple for all R&D, marketing, IP, transportation, security and other associated yearly expenses and costs that Apple bears in making and maintaining its various devices and associated software products.
The walled garden is going away. The iPhone and iPad will move more and more to the Mac model. You are going to have to start learning to deal with it and decide how you want to move forward with your investment. Apple is going to have to start learning to deal with it too. Then have become too dependent on the iPhone and a watch, self driving car, weather app, and VR are not going to move the company forward like the iPhone did. Cook has done a great job generating iterative changes to make money but under his leadership Apple has missed on search, cloud, AI etc. In comparison MS moved into other areas after they lost the phone wars and somehow managed to closed on Friday as the world’s most valuable company, doing it without a phone type device or a map app.
Nonsense. Apple has implemented an extremely reliable cloud infrastructure since before it was cool. Why do you think messages and notifications and iTunes purchases work so well?
Apple is not a search company. And yet, file searching on my Mac is DAY & NIGHT better than on my work Windows machine. On Windows I can write a text file and search for words in it and get back…nothing. Worse, web results! On Mac I get my file back.
AI? Pfft. Yes because of some beta search engine for search companies, now Apple’s missed? Yeah no buddy. AI is the next NFT hype. Every software shop under the sun is claiming AI is their secret sauce for HR software, etc etc.. They aren’t doing anything Apple isn’t, guaranteed.
Modern Spotlight also shows pesky web results stuck at the top of the list. I think they call it ‘Siri Suggestions’ or something.
I personally think if Steve Jobs was still alive, he would pull out of the EU
The single largest trading bloc outside the USA? Really?
Steve Jobs was nothing if not a man of principle - whether it hurt or helped him - or provided financial rewards or deficits. He had a very clear and simple. Yet profound vision - make the best stuff in the world. Period. He wouldn’t let some unAmerican government crap all over apple and its customers. I could totally hear him saying “and this is why you can’t have nice things,” chiding the EU publicly, finding a way to turn the tables - and failing that, leave that market to fry, forever at the mercy of crapware such as android. The entire EU marketplace and the associated governments with their fees and taxes would be begging Apple to come back. There would be a grassroots import movement by the populace. Steve was strong like that. While cook seems to be a better businessman, he lacks that principled backbone and so we see apple’s stances being chipped away at.
The issue appears to be that Apple has a commercial monopoly in the App Store and the EU considers this unfair. Yet Apple wishes to protect the integrity and security of the user experience by being the gatekeeper. Firstly, you don't have to buy apps from Apple's App Store, I have many downloaded directly, with all the usual health warnings. Secondly, Apple is currently providing a service in protecting users from malware.
This is the Wild West of internet times and there is no global authority to perform the same purpose. Does the EU really want to take on the job of scrutinising every app submitted for sale? No. A compromise, for the time being, would be for Apple to reduce its top-slicing fees to better represent its actual costs or even set up the Apple App Store as a separate not-for-profit organisation. That should satisfy the EU.
In the long run, an international authority should be established to be responsible for certifying apps as safe, across all platforms, with a fee paid one way or another by the seller.
How about Apple says OK we will allow apps to be side loaded but only if the EU warrants to compensate all damage done by side loaded viruses, all data breeches caused by being forced to open the eco system - Apple should push this hard - the EU may have good intentions (and GPDR is a good thing in the main) but they are way off line with this particular issue. IMHO
But what about the accumlative damage done to EU consumers through not allowing competition? Will Apple compensate for that?
I wonder if Apple could force sideloaded apps to exist in a sandbox, locked and isolated from everything else.
Granted the user may grant access to Contact, photos, etc, but maybe it would contain nefarious apps.
Have no idea how this works.
All apps run in a sandbox even now. Apple could also copy Google's Play protect which periodically scans the phone for malware and viruses so even third party installs are secure.
Some time ago I tried to side load a pirated movie app on Android and Play Protect warned me that the app had malicious code.
Are you kidding? What about those reports about how there are way more pieces of malware on Android than iOS…periodic scanning didn’t make it secure
You'd think those reports would be out every day, given the supposed mess that Android is and that users would be rushing to iOS.
The fact that that is far from the case should tell you all you need to know.
regarding the 30% — what Apple created was a vibrant economy for software developers that didn’t exist at that scale or low cost before. You need to understand that software used to cost much more to distribute before the App Store.
Software distribution + resellers often get less than 10% combined. App Store made things a lot more expensive for developers. No wonder a lot of Mac apps aren't available in App Store + Apple took jobs from distribution and resellers.
And so what about Apple being an enabler? I don't pay Mercedes 30% of my salary for being able to drive to work. You might disagree with the EU Parliament and the actions taken by those elected. So what? Realpolitik doesn't care about that.
Absolutely false. Tell me you’ve never sold a SKU in retrial without telling me…. Distributor and retailer added MUCH more than 10% to the final price. Look up keystone pricing. Distributing software in retail channels used to be much more expensive.
Different times but irrelevant.
The core of this case is competition.
In the past, software would last far longer than on mobile where server side restrictions (also through Apple) were less of a problem. Prices were higher as software (and this is still true today) was far more complete in what it could do.
Even essential things like file local management took years to be implemented and even that is a mess when compared to desktop apps.
In the long run, an international authority should be established to be responsible for certifying apps as safe, across all platforms, with a fee paid one way or another by the seller.
We would never accept Sony or LG being able to block TV shows in the US they didn't find appropriate. Or let Heidelberg stop books from being printed unless approved in Germany. Why accept that a company from California decide on the apps we can use - in Utah or abroad? I prefer to elect those that protect core values like free speech rather than having any company - foreign or domestic - decide.
I personally think if Steve Jobs was still alive, he would pull out of the EU
The single largest trading bloc outside the USA? Really?
Steve Jobs was nothing if not a man of principle - whether it hurt or helped him - or provided financial rewards or deficits. He had a very clear and simple. Yet profound vision - make the best stuff in the world. Period. He wouldn’t let some unAmerican government crap all over apple and its customers. I could totally hear him saying “and this is why you can’t have nice things,” chiding the EU publicly, finding a way to turn the tables - and failing that, leave that market to fry, forever at the mercy of crapware such as android. The entire EU marketplace and the associated governments with their fees and taxes would be begging Apple to come back. There would be a grassroots import movement by the populace. Steve was strong like that. While cook seems to be a better businessman, he lacks that principled backbone and so we see apple’s stances being chipped away at.
Steve Jobs took Apple into China. Give me a break from all this mythologising, he was as pragmatic as any other business leader.
How about Apple says OK we will allow apps to be side loaded but only if the EU warrants to compensate all damage done by side loaded viruses, all data breeches caused by being forced to open the eco system - Apple should push this hard - the EU may have good intentions (and GPDR is a good thing in the main) but they are way off line with this particular issue. IMHO
But what about the accumlative damage done to EU consumers through not allowing competition? Will Apple compensate for that?
Competition, my a$$. Thought you’d know better than to buy political BS.
I personally think if Steve Jobs was still alive, he would pull out of the EU
The single largest trading bloc outside the USA? Really?
Steve Jobs was nothing if not a man of principle - whether it hurt or helped him - or provided financial rewards or deficits. He had a very clear and simple. Yet profound vision - make the best stuff in the world. Period. He wouldn’t let some unAmerican government crap all over apple and its customers. I could totally hear him saying “and this is why you can’t have nice things,” chiding the EU publicly, finding a way to turn the tables - and failing that, leave that market to fry, forever at the mercy of crapware such as android. The entire EU marketplace and the associated governments with their fees and taxes would be begging Apple to come back. There would be a grassroots import movement by the populace. Steve was strong like that. While cook seems to be a better businessman, he lacks that principled backbone and so we see apple’s stances being chipped away at.
Steve Jobs took Apple into China. Give me a break from all this mythologising, he was as pragmatic as any other business leader.
China don’t seem to mind Lightning, App Store, and the like, though.
How about Apple says OK we will allow apps to be side loaded but only if the EU warrants to compensate all damage done by side loaded viruses, all data breeches caused by being forced to open the eco system - Apple should push this hard - the EU may have good intentions (and GPDR is a good thing in the main) but they are way off line with this particular issue. IMHO
But what about the accumlative damage done to EU consumers through not allowing competition? Will Apple compensate for that?
Zero damage has been done to EU consumers. That's why the EU never presented any type of software pricing comparisons between the various "open" and "closed" platforms. The EU's idea of the perfect competitive system is Windows/Mac which has significantly higher prices for both hardware and software AND a far more lopsided market share for its duopoly of operating systems.
How about Apple says OK we will allow apps to be side loaded but only if the EU warrants to compensate all damage done by side loaded viruses, all data breeches caused by being forced to open the eco system - Apple should push this hard - the EU may have good intentions (and GPDR is a good thing in the main) but they are way off line with this particular issue. IMHO
But what about the accumlative damage done to EU consumers through not allowing competition? Will Apple compensate for that?
Zero damage has been done to EU consumers. That's why the EU never presented any type of software pricing comparisons between the various "open" and "closed" platforms. The EU's idea of the perfect competitive system is Windows/Mac which has significantly higher prices for both hardware and software AND a far more lopsided market share for its duopoly of operating systems.
Pricing isn't everything. My wife can't use her phone to access any NFC system for transport because Apple (and only Apple - there's the harm in that case) hasn't authorised the app for it.
Harm, is Apple’s commissions. Harm, is Apple’s reluctance to allow NFC use. Harm, is Apple's refusal to allow alternative wallet systems. Harm, is one App Store. Harm, is only allowing WebKit. Harm, is not allowing users to install the kind of apps they want. Harm, is not clearly informing users of any of the above.
Comments
Apple is not a search company. And yet, file searching on my Mac is DAY & NIGHT better than on my work Windows machine. On Windows I can write a text file and search for words in it and get back…nothing. Worse, web results! On Mac I get my file back.
AI? Pfft. Yes because of some beta search engine for search companies, now Apple’s missed? Yeah no buddy. AI is the next NFT hype. Every software shop under the sun is claiming AI is their secret sauce for HR software, etc etc.. They aren’t doing anything Apple isn’t, guaranteed.
This is the Wild West of internet times and there is no global authority to perform the same purpose. Does the EU really want to take on the job of scrutinising every app submitted for sale? No. A compromise, for the time being, would be for Apple to reduce its top-slicing fees to better represent its actual costs or even set up the Apple App Store as a separate not-for-profit organisation. That should satisfy the EU.
In the long run, an international authority should be established to be responsible for certifying apps as safe, across all platforms, with a fee paid one way or another by the seller.
The fact that that is far from the case should tell you all you need to know.
The core of this case is competition.
In the past, software would last far longer than on mobile where server side restrictions (also through Apple) were less of a problem. Prices were higher as software (and this is still true today) was far more complete in what it could do.
Even essential things like file local management took years to be implemented and even that is a mess when compared to desktop apps.
Harm, is Apple’s commissions.
Harm, is Apple’s reluctance to allow NFC use.
Harm, is Apple's refusal to allow alternative wallet systems.
Harm, is one App Store.
Harm, is only allowing WebKit.
Harm, is not allowing users to install the kind of apps they want.
Harm, is not clearly informing users of any of the above.