Decade-old Apple Car project may be completely dead

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  • Reply 61 of 74
    So many car brands out there. There was nothing to gain for Apple. Car hardware isn’t their DNA either. Seems like a wise decision.

    They should instead focus on getting the next generation CarPlay in car brands.
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 62 of 74
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,103member
    If the rumoured demise of the rumoured car project turns out to be true, one can only speculate.

    There were probably a whole series of reasons why they chose to disband the teams working on it. 

    First (or nearly first) mover status was lost years ago and any future product was going to have a very hard time competing even with current 'smart' cars, let alone those that will be here in a few years. 

    The first ship containing 7,000 BYD cars arrived in Spain yesterday and by chance I walked by the first BYD dealership I've ever seen locally on the very same day. 

    Chery is in advanced talks to open a plant in north eastern Spain as well. Things are moving at light speed. 

    The engineering that is required to put the 'smarts' into smart are not insignificant and a 5G modem plus mini-data center plus AI etc are a must. The modem alone is proving hard to deliver even after spending a billion dollars on Intel employees and patents. 

    The battery/electrical side is also key and Apple isn't famed for its prowess in that field. BYD, CATL, Huawei are already delivering solutions on that front. 

    Charging isn't really a problem in that it can be scaled quickly. Huawei alone will expand its charging facilities in 2024 with 100,000 new charging stations, many of which will be ultrafast stations and aiming to charge at 1km/sec. They will be accessible to all brands. And that's only in China. A lot of traditional petrol stations here also have charging points. 

    The comments on charging here seem to be related to poor infrastructure in the US but that can be scaled as vehicles hit the market. 

    I get the idea that the US doesn't do infrastructure all that well. High speed Rail networks are finally being looked at in some areas. ICT seems to be a mess in some aspects. It took EMV a decade to become commonplace and, until relatively recently, it seems that contactless payments weren't common. Every time I see a YouTube video on some high powered electrical appliance they mention the voltage considerations on the sockets where you plan to plug in. 

    The problem on charging where I am is that the 'free' charging period (used to stimulate sales) has ended and people are having to pay now. 

    Service and support would have to be outsourced as Apple does not do long term technology support and a car needs massive support infrastructure as well as adaptation to local regulatory demands. I can imagine Apple just hasn't been able to find a suitable candidate. It could step up to 64bit processors and nix support for 32bits precisely because it doesn't do long term technology support. 

    The same might apply when searching for someone to actually build the machine. 

    Without all of the above, things like CarPlay can't really compete without having deeper access to the car internals. That ship sailed long ago and CarPlay 2 will be an improvement but won't catch those who are already shipping fully integrated solutions. 

    Then there are the goals and management side of things. That seems to have swung massively over the years with people coming and going and rumours of project direction going one way today and another a few years later. 

    Ive probably had a big part in the early stages of the project but now he's gone. Others seem to have come and gone too. 

    Did Tim Cook want a legacy product to have his name associated with? Possibly. Why not? It's possible that seeing the car project fade away he redirected more effort into the VP which is far, far, easier to pull off and can be encapsulated within Apple's existing knowledge field and protected from external factors to a degree. 

    All in all, it's disappointing (assuming the original rumour was true and this one is as well) but it's not the end of the world. 

    The question now is what to do with the accumulated knowledge and developments. Sell it off. Re-purpose it. Keep it for a rainy day? Ha. 

    It must have cost a pretty penny. 


    muthuk_vanalingam
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  • Reply 63 of 74
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,103member
    Massiveattack87 said: Apple is far behind at Generative AI. 
    Why are there so many generative AI products being released by so many different companies if it's hard to do? 
    It’s not. They’re working on it, but much like everything else, Apple isn’t first.  If you look at many AI assisted programs, a lot of them are so-so. 
    Most AI is invisible to the end user and becoming imperative for competitiveness across the board. It's seeping into everything. 

    The consumer facing generative side is far from so-so when you take into account the massive advances in such a short period of time with Sora being an absolutely amazing and, in equal parts, terrifying development.

    Of course putting AI into the hands of the layman brings with it other considerations but the genie left the bottle and there is no getting it back in. 

    There is widespread apprehension about the impact of generative AI on the US elections. Fear even. 

    We are now seeing AI able to not only able to identify objects but also describe them. Yes, AI hallucinations are a problem but the advances are already put there. 

    Now we are seeing advances in 'tiny' large models for deployment on resource starved devices. 

    You can see why Apple must be sweating it out behind the scenes (and preannouncing its plans) because everyone else is already shipping solutions and by all accounts we are beyond hype. 

    We've seen what Sora is capable of, and for sure the examples were cherry picked, but where were we just a year or two ago with the same technology? 
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  • Reply 64 of 74
    MplsP said:
    FLWXPX said:

    Oh, and they'll have an SE model, a Plus, a Max, a Pro, a Pro Max, an Ultra, an Ultra Pro, and Ultra Pro Max and an Ultra Pro Max Plus. 
    Isn’t that exactly what all carmakers do? You have the GMC Yukon, Yukon XL, Yukon Denali, SLE, SLT, AT4…
    Yes, and that's why they had to get rid of Oldsmobile and Pontiac...too many similar models, too much overlap. They're all exactly the same damn car with different grilles and price tags. Almost went bankrupt, didnt they?

    I was ALWAYS a loyal GM guy since my very first car, no matter how many issues i had. But ever since I tried other models, I realized just how far behind the times they really were. I would never own another American car. They lost their way in the mid-70's. Apple lost their way when they restrained Jony Ives' resources and let him go. It's too bad Tim Cook isn't infatuated with his own companies products like Steve was. 
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 65 of 74
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,311member
    toddzrx said:
    Somewhat surprisingly your post is the first to discuss what’s been going on in the EV market over the last 6 months. Apple is canceling the car because reality just set in across the EV auto landscape: all the rich people who want one have largely bought one, government subsidies have mostly run out, repair costs are abysmal on an EV because even the slightest accident can cause fire risk in the battery, leading to increased insurance costs, and public charging costs have gone up.  Of course there’s the ever-present issue of long charge times/range anxiety/charge station availability. EV’s are the first large scale product that the public is having to deal with and consider in their economic choices in the government mandated “green revolution”, and the EV’s are losing.
    I'm sure you would have been arguing against the "horseless carriage" due to lack of roads and fueling stations. EVs are just going through something similar right now. First and foremost, we need a much more widespread charging infrastructure to alleviate the "range anxiety" that people fear around EVs. Biden's infrastructure bill should help a lot to make that happen. Second, we need improved battery technology that offers greater range and faster charging without the cold weather issues. It hasn't helped that EV buyers rarely get the advertised "estimated range" on their cars and trucks -- an investigation into Tesla detailed the company's awareness that its estimated rangers are overstated and that it denies customers service appointments over "insufficient range" complaints, knowing that it can't "fix" the problem. But these issues will undoubtedly be worked out... unfortunately, given the "anti-EV" mentality that has now taken hold in the U.S., it will likely be the Chinese who develop next gen battery tech and end up owning the global auto industry. Remember: gas is MUCH more expensive in nearly all of the world than it is in the U.S., so the motivation to switch to EVs is much greater. 
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 66 of 74
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,311member

    EV are just fine.  They're not going anywhere.    All the issues (aside from cold weather and that's easily fixable)  will be rectified with Solid State batteries which will produce either double the power for a given weight or today's power in half the weight which eliminates much of the weight issues of EV as well as thermal runaway. 

    Apple is smart to get out of cars because it's not a core competency.    Apple barely does a good job repairing their computers and car repairs are another level of stress.  I think they should continue to embed their IP into the nervous system of a car and the user interaction with the driver.  That's what Apple excels at. 
    Agree... not a core competency for Apple, nor are cars a high margin business while Apple's success rests entirely on high margins. As for continuing to embed their IP in cars, I think all eyes are on GM and what happens with their abandoning both CarPlay and Android Auto in favor of their own system developed with Google. IF this strategy isn't a deal breaker for buyers--and that's a big IF--it offers GM a new, ongoing and very lucrative revenue stream with each car sale. Personally, I wouldn't even look at a GM car when shopping at this point because it lacks CarPlay... but I don't know if I'm most buyers. We shall see. But if this works out for GM, you can expect other car companies to follow. I have no doubt that Google is knocking at their doors already. 
    edited February 2024
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 67 of 74
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,341member
    aderutter said:
    If Apple is focusing upon markets with larger margins that is great news. Apple might want to disrupt the Hearing Aid market next, I know someone who paid handsomely for some recently that are pretty poor quality despite costing thousands. 
    Agree 300%!  I am surprised Apple hasn’t done this, the hearing aid market is extortionate and watching my father suffer with them and lose them to pay $1000 for a replacement was striking.  Now that I have tinnitus and high frequency hearing loss, it occurs to me that this market is ripe for disruption and it represents Apple’s core strengths plus high margins would be maintained even if they underprice the competition.

    I know it is not sexy but Apple could position it as a statement of support for the disability market.  As the planet is aging, the market is huge.  Plus the retired well-off community is a core-Apple market.  Apple could provide research into managing tinnitus with sound manipulation, integrating with networked microphones (iPhones, Homepods, iPads, etc).
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 68 of 74
    I think Apple took a long hard look at AI and realised that it is not possible to make a self driving car – one that is safe enough to operate in a real world environment – in the foreseeable future. It may never be. If you thought that AntennaGate, TouchBarGate or KeyboardGate marred the company's image, think of what accidents involving Apple Car would do. Apple is very sensible to take everything they've learned from this project and axe it.
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 69 of 74
    Just a quick note for the “Steve wouldn’t have done this or that” crowd: he did. Cook was his right-hand guy for years, left Cook in charge, and by all accounts Steve told Tim to make the job/company ‘his’. Steve laid all the groundwork for the Cook years and clearly trusted him. So in some part Steve is responsible, pro or con, for Apple’s general trajectory (I won’t say ‘culture’ because I think that’s fantasy b.s. Companies don’t have actual culture.)
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 70 of 74
    Remember many years ago in the early 2000's there was a rumor Apple was developing their own "TV"? It turned out to be the "iTV" (now Apple TV) and never an actual TV. This is the same scenario but with a car.

    I know, I know Apple developed an actual TV in the early 90's called Macintosh TV but IMO the Apple TV was the better/smarter direction. 

    Just continue developing CarPlay...
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 71 of 74
    I believe the Apple Car was only ever a rumor.
    I strongly believe it was a deliberate smoke screen project to allow them:
      AI development
      Mapping improvements
      CarPlay wide screen
      Develop technology for others devices without signaling the device feature
       Whatever else they had wish to hide - 

    As others have no company lwould move so far form their core product into a field that is very competitive and fraught with engineering recalls
    Better to and you heard it here first

    APPLE ROCKET !
    danoxwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 72 of 74
    Could only Apple pundits do this?

    There has been talk for years from every quarter saying that Apple has a car project, which Apple never stated or acknowledged. Now, this unacknowledged, possibly non-existent electric car project is “cancelled” and it’s all over the news again. Remarkable.
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 73 of 74
    mjpbuy said:
    I believe the Apple Car was only ever a rumor.
    I strongly believe it was a deliberate smoke screen project to allow them:
      AI development
      Mapping improvements
      CarPlay wide screen
      Develop technology for others devices without signaling the device feature
       Whatever else they had wish to hide - 

    As others have no company lwould move so far form their core product into a field that is very competitive and fraught with engineering recalls
    Better to and you heard it here first

    APPLE ROCKET !
    That’s nonsense. There has been clear evidence of hundreds of people being specifically hired for automotive, space and even race tracks being rented / built… all for some conspiracy smoke screen? Less than 5 years ago nobody could have predicted the insane jumps in AI advancements. 

    All the things you mentioned could have been done the same way they’ve been handling their other software & hardware efforts. 
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  • Reply 74 of 74
    FLWXPX said:
    MplsP said:
    FLWXPX said:

    Oh, and they'll have an SE model, a Plus, a Max, a Pro, a Pro Max, an Ultra, an Ultra Pro, and Ultra Pro Max and an Ultra Pro Max Plus. 
    Isn’t that exactly what all carmakers do? You have the GMC Yukon, Yukon XL, Yukon Denali, SLE, SLT, AT4…
    I was ALWAYS a loyal GM guy since my very first car, no matter how many issues i had. But ever since I tried other models, I realized just how far behind the times they really were. I would never own another American car. They lost their way in the mid-70's. Apple lost their way when they restrained Jony Ives' resources and let him go. It's too bad Tim Cook isn't infatuated with his own companies products like Steve was. 
    Nonsense. Ive (not Ives) had wide freedom and wasn’t let go. After a long, long time with Apple he moved on, as people are wont to do. He’s beyond wealthy and doesn’t need to commute for a living like the rest of us.

    As for products, most CEOs are not product managers, Jobs was the exception there. Cook is one of the most successful CEOs of the century.
    edited February 2024
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
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