I’ve been following Apple since 1997. Apple Insider I have been following since 1998. Apple is going to be fined on this one. The lawyers for Apple have made the wrong decision
And about time, too. Apple is playing around, they're going to lose this. They need to just open up the iPhone and iPad for apps installed from anywhere, it's time for this app store nonsense to end.
(Gave up and created a new account today, my old one won't log in and the password recovery won't work. With how much the posts here have dropped I don't think I'm the only one who had that problem.)
The European Union arose because the Europeans couldn’t compete on their own with the rest of the world, so they each lined up to surrender their national sovereignty, unique cultures, and dignity for an undemocratic, opaque, wasteful, bloated, bureaucratic quasi-governmental mess. If you can't compete then you regulate. That's the EU for you.
This is usually called an illegal cartel but the EU lovers don't understand this. Apple is an American company providing a product. Maybe it's time for the USA to start going after EU companies, like the VW, for all their fake emission controls on vehicles.
The European Union arose because the Europeans couldn’t compete on their own with the rest of the world, so they each lined up to surrender their national sovereignty, unique cultures, and dignity for an undemocratic, opaque, wasteful, bloated, bureaucratic quasi-governmental mess
Creating A More Perfect Union takes time. In one union we had people that tried to create a confederation in the area already taken by a union of states. Terrible idea. Another union went from having colonized half the world to 1.5 island hidden in perpetual fog. Both the old unions have massive trade deficits and problems of all sorts. And... EU - absolutely not perfect - but as unions go it is the only one to have a trade surplus and the citizens have experienced freedom to work, study, and the ability to live in other nations. EU is not the problem. USB C is not a problem. Open competition is not a problem. Apple failing to understand the world... is the problem.
This level of micromanagement is insane. Do these EU regulators have nothing at all to do other than to constantly harass Apple?
As long as Apple keeps harassing their customers and the developer that made them successful, please, yes, go on.
Hyperbole much? FFS, get a real argument and stop repeating childish nonsense. If you don't like it, leave, that is if you even own any Apple devices. Most trolls on the internet attacking Apple have never and will never own any of their products, they just like to complain because they childishly think product preferences are partisan and attacking your "enemy" is what you do when you have no life.
This level of micromanagement is insane. Do these EU regulators have nothing at all to do other than to constantly harass Apple?
Aren't those guys the ones who want all phones to use the same sort of charging cable?
The EU's first pass, prior to USB Type C, was Micro USB. Apple complied with a 2 gram adaptor. Apple also complied prior to the deadline, for USB Type C.
Please note, now consumers have to navigate all of the variations of USB Type C cables, from basic charging to USB 4 Gen 3, 40 mbps/240W.
Nonsense, Micro USB was never a thing. It was in talks, if anything. And by now, I doubt anybody would say moving to USB C was bad. If Apple wouldn’t have to be forced to do the right thing kicking and screaming, maybe that would be better for everyone…
"Now it is time for industry to show its commitment to sell mobile phones for the new charger. The common charger will make life easier for consumers, reduce waste and benefit businesses. It is a true win-win situation."
Do you know why industry had to show commitment?
Because it wasn't a legal obligation.
As sirdir correctly points out. It was talks.
A MoU was reached after talks and standards formed. That was industry consultationm
It was never a legal requirement.
It wasn't enough and Apple was the one contributing to the problem so when it came to reviewing the situation, this time (and following more industry consultation, impact assessments etc) it was legislated and finally Apple fell into line.
I’ve been following Apple since 1997. Apple Insider I have been following since 1998. Apple is going to be fined on this one. The lawyers for Apple have made the wrong decision
And about time, too. Apple is playing around, they're going to lose this. They need to just open up the iPhone and iPad for apps installed from anywhere, it's time for this app store nonsense to end.
(Gave up and created a new account today, my old one won't log in and the password recovery won't work. With how much the posts here have dropped I don't think I'm the only one who had that problem.)
The European Union arose because the Europeans couldn’t compete on their own with the rest of the world, so they each lined up to surrender their national sovereignty, unique cultures, and dignity for an undemocratic, opaque, wasteful, bloated, bureaucratic quasi-governmental mess. If you can't compete then you regulate. That's the EU for you.
This is usually called an illegal cartel but the EU lovers don't understand this. Apple is an American company providing a product. Maybe it's time for the USA to start going after EU companies, like the VW, for all their fake emission controls on vehicles. I'd start by shutting down VW Group of America for regularly, intentionally violating emission controls. I'd also go after every EU company no matter what they provide. If the EU continues to try and run American companies, the USA needs to start forcing EU companies to comply with every American law.
This level of micromanagement is insane. Do these EU regulators have nothing at all to do other than to constantly harass Apple?
Aren't those guys the ones who want all phones to use the same sort of charging cable?
Yes. Which has allowed me to diversify my charging cable collection. Now I have to double check that I have the right combination of charging cable when I bring my devices with me. My iPhone 14 Pro Max is Lightning, my iPad mini is USB-C, one of my big iPads is Lightning while and other one USB-C, keyboard is Lightning, and my trackball is micro USB. Yay.
I’m still in favor of USB-C, which Apple was moving to anyway, because it will eventually supersede micro USB which is absolutely hideous, but it will still take years to make the transition. I notice a lot of the smaller battery powered gadgets coming out of China are now using USB-C on the device side, but most of them ship with a USB-A to USB-C charging cable.
I’ll never accept the EU regulator’s insistence that they are going after Apple for competitive or customer based reasons. As someone who’s spent an entire career on one 1.0 project after another I know how difficult it is to create successful new products and ventures. Companies that can do it well, do it repeatedly, and at scale should be rewarded and not penalized for their success. Creating anything is many orders of magnitude greater than destroying the same thing, and glomming onto other’s success in an entitled manner is not an admirable trait, not in a small way, but definitely not in an Epic way.
Apple has not accomplished anything that any other competent and competitive company absolutely dreams of be able to accomplish. So many others fail while Apple has been able to avoid failure, so far, but they have zero guarantee of continued success. They’re not sitting on massive natural resources like OPEC, they only have what they’ve been able to create using smart, driven, and diligent humans.
This level of micromanagement is insane. Do these EU regulators have nothing at all to do other than to constantly harass Apple?
Aren't those guys the ones who want all phones to use the same sort of charging cable?
The EU's first pass, prior to USB Type C, was Micro USB. Apple complied with a 2 gram adaptor. Apple also complied prior to the deadline, for USB Type C.
Please note, now consumers have to navigate all of the variations of USB Type C cables, from basic charging to USB 4 Gen 3, 40 mbps/240W.
Nonsense, Micro USB was never a thing. It was in talks, if anything. And by now, I doubt anybody would say moving to USB C was bad. If Apple wouldn’t have to be forced to do the right thing kicking and screaming, maybe that would be better for everyone…
"Now it is time for industry to show its commitment to sell mobile phones for the new charger. The common charger will make life easier for consumers, reduce waste and benefit businesses. It is a true win-win situation."
Do you know why industry had to show commitment?
Because it wasn't a legal obligation.
As sirdir correctly points out. It was talks.
A MoU was reached after talks and standards formed. That was industry consultationm
It was never a legal requirement.
It wasn't enough and Apple was the one contributing to the problem so when it came to reviewing the situation, this time (and following more industry consultation, impact assessments etc) it was legislated and finally Apple fell into line.
My point was that the EU chose Micro USB, that was shit for the record, and Apple was able to comply with an adaptor.
Still, if the EU was expecting that Apple would passively accept and comply with such a shitty standard, and with no actual legal requirement of that, of course Apple would choose to stick with Lightning as long as possible. Evidently, Apple was in legal compliance with the adaptor.
From MacRumors;
There was considerable speculation about whether Apple would be able to meet the requirements of the micro-USB standard. At the time, Apple used a proprietary 30-pin dock connector compatible with both the iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch.
However, the wording of the MoU offered Apple a loophole: For those phones that did not have a USB micro-B interface, an adapter was allowed under the agreed terms. And that's exactly what Apple did. In 2012, Apple introduced the iPhone 5 with a new Lightning proprietary connector to replace its 30-pin connector, and additionally offered a separate Lightning to micro USB adapter to comply with the 2009 EU agreement.
I admit that I was incorrect about the Micro USB standard being "a requirement".
This level of micromanagement is insane. Do these EU regulators have nothing at all to do other than to constantly harass Apple?
Aren't those guys the ones who want all phones to use the same sort of charging cable?
The EU's first pass, prior to USB Type C, was Micro USB. Apple complied with a 2 gram adaptor. Apple also complied prior to the deadline, for USB Type C.
Please note, now consumers have to navigate all of the variations of USB Type C cables, from basic charging to USB 4 Gen 3, 40 mbps/240W.
Nonsense, Micro USB was never a thing. It was in talks, if anything. And by now, I doubt anybody would say moving to USB C was bad. If Apple wouldn’t have to be forced to do the right thing kicking and screaming, maybe that would be better for everyone…
"Now it is time for industry to show its commitment to sell mobile phones for the new charger. The common charger will make life easier for consumers, reduce waste and benefit businesses. It is a true win-win situation."
Do you know why industry had to show commitment?
Because it wasn't a legal obligation.
As sirdir correctly points out. It was talks.
A MoU was reached after talks and standards formed. That was industry consultationm
It was never a legal requirement.
It wasn't enough and Apple was the one contributing to the problem so when it came to reviewing the situation, this time (and following more industry consultation, impact assessments etc) it was legislated and finally Apple fell into line.
My point was that the EU chose Micro USB, that was shit for the record, and Apple was able to comply with an adaptor.
Still, if the EU was expecting that Apple would passively accept and comply with such a shitty standard, and with no actual legal requirement of that, of course Apple would choose to stick with Lightning as long as possible. Evidently, Apple was in legal compliance with the adaptor.
You obviously don't remember what things were like prior to micro-USB and, shitty or not, it resolved a lot of the problems it was designed to solve. In that sense it was a massive success and just like with the USB-C case, went way beyond phones.
It also solved problems worldwide as manufacturers switched in mass to a 'common' charging port.
Too many people here see EU+USB-C=Apple.
It doesn't. Apple is just one element in this, as the directive covers a huge swathe of products.
The EU would have preferred that industry moved in unison for the benefit of the consumer and the environment. That proved impossible so it was legislated.
Like with micro-USB there was no perfect solution and the problems with USB-C were all evaluated.
There was even a matrix in the impact assessments detailing the pros and cons of all the different possible combinations.
Most people here have never even browsed those assessments.
Apple doesn't owe anyone an explanation. It's their damn store with their rules which were violated by Epic games. Just because someone is crying like a little baby because they can't have it their way doesn't mean Apple should bend over for anyone. The EU is just plain ridiculous. Don't they have more important issues to tend to rather than try and make continuous headlines by basically bullying a multi-billion company to justify their existence?
Apple doesn't owe anyone an explanation. It's their damn store with their rules which were violated by Epic games. Just because someone is crying like a little baby because they can't have it their way doesn't mean Apple should bend over for anyone. The EU is just plain ridiculous. Don't they have more important issues to tend to rather than try and make continuous headlines by basically bullying a multi-billion multi-$trillion company to justify their existence?
"Other revenue, including taxes from EU staff salaries, bank interest, fines and contributions from third countries"
Governments make up arbitrary rules (e.g gatekeeper definitions) and declare that successful companies now owe them money for breaking their made-up rules.
This level of micromanagement is insane. Do these EU regulators have nothing at all to do other than to constantly harass Apple?
$6Billion+ later they got tired of harassing Google?
Several years ago here amidst cheering about the EU coming down on Google with antitrust claims I said they would eventually get around to Apple, and members were not going to be cheering EU competition policies so much when it did.
The circle keeps turning, and massively powerful big tech won't be allowed to continue making their own rules up to grow more power and riches, keeping their foot on smaller throats, whether we users see it as fair or not.
I think all Apple will have to do to win this is supply the EU with the transcripts from the trial, where Tim Greedy admitted under oath that it plotted to break its contract with Apple. Tim’s own flippant and obviously insincere answer was more than enough to make it clear to anyone who could read that Epic has ZERO intention of following the rules, primarily because they believe that the EU will protect them if they do.
Frankly, Apple could have saved themselves a LOT of trouble if they’d just stated from the get-go that Epic is perma-banned, that that courts said that was a legal punishment for breaking the rules, and never granted them a developer license for the EU.
Apple doesn't owe anyone an explanation. It's their damn store with their rules which were violated by Epic games. Just because someone is crying like a little baby because they can't have it their way doesn't mean Apple should bend over for anyone. The EU is just plain ridiculous. Don't they have more important issues to tend to rather than try and make continuous headlines by basically bullying a multi-billion multi-$trillion company to justify their existence?
Corrected
You didn't "correct" their post, you merely made it more precise. A multi-trillion dollar company is also a multi-billion dollar company. 😉
Apple doesn't owe anyone an explanation. It's their damn store with their rules which were violated by Epic games. Just because someone is crying like a little baby because they can't have it their way doesn't mean Apple should bend over for anyone. The EU is just plain ridiculous. Don't they have more important issues to tend to rather than try and make continuous headlines by basically bullying a multi-billion multi-$trillion company to justify their existence?
Corrected
You didn't "correct" their post, you merely made it more precise. A multi-trillion dollar company is also a multi-billion dollar company. 😉
So multi-$Million would be accurate as well as multi-$Thousands, both of which could be considered misleading to naive readers. So yeah, I fixed it to be less so.
This level of micromanagement is insane. Do these EU regulators have nothing at all to do other than to constantly harass Apple?
As long as Apple keeps harassing their customers and the developer that made them successful, please, yes, go on.
I'm both a customer and a developer, since way back. And I've never felt harassed by Apple …quite the contrary.
Among the many hundreds of friends and colleagues I've had, I know only a single one who has ever left the Apple ecosystem. And that was entirely due to his employment contract.
So, I guess harassment of Apple's customers and developers must be a local thing near you @sirdir ; Either that, or it's just more of the same old lie coming from people that claim to be Apple users …but are more like envious wannabes, who don't even understand the value of having a trustful gatekeeper at the doors of your community.
Apple doesn't owe anyone an explanation. It's their damn store with their rules which were violated by Epic games. Just because someone is crying like a little baby because they can't have it their way doesn't mean Apple should bend over for anyone. The EU is just plain ridiculous. Don't they have more important issues to tend to rather than try and make continuous headlines by basically bullying a multi-billion multi-$trillion company to justify their existence?
Corrected
You didn't "correct" their post, you merely made it more precise. A multi-trillion dollar company is also a multi-billion dollar company. 😉
So, macxpress could have said Apple was a 1-dollar company, and still be "correct"?
I’ve been following Apple since 1997. Apple Insider I have been following since 1998. Apple is going to be fined on this one. The lawyers for Apple have made the wrong decision
And about time, too. Apple is playing around, they're going to lose this. They need to just open up the iPhone and iPad for apps installed from anywhere, it's time for this app store nonsense to end.
(Gave up and created a new account today, my old one won't log in and the password recovery won't work. With how much the posts here have dropped I don't think I'm the only one who had that problem.)
The European Union arose because the Europeans couldn’t compete on their own with the rest of the world, so they each lined up to surrender their national sovereignty, unique cultures, and dignity for an undemocratic, opaque, wasteful, bloated, bureaucratic quasi-governmental mess. If you can't compete then you regulate. That's the EU for you.
This is usually called an illegal cartel but the EU lovers don't understand this. Apple is an American company providing a product. Maybe it's time for the USA to start going after EU companies, like the VW, for all their fake emission controls on vehicles.
In a document published on Tuesday, the Commission said it had sufficient evidence tending to show Chinese EVs were being subsidised and that imports had increased by 14% year-on-year since the investigation was formally launched in October.
It said EU producers could suffer harm, which would be difficult to repair, if Chinese imports continued at this accelerated rate before the conclusion of the investigation.
No one could possibly imagine that Chinese EV's are subsidizing exports into the EU, though with certainty, retroactive tariffs will demonstrate EU's superpowers.
Comments
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/volkswagen-spend-147-billion-settle-allegations-cheating-emissions-tests-and-deceiving
And also in Europe:
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vw-loses-eu-court-ruling-diesel-scandal
Yeah, and fines for EU companies too.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-fines-bmw-volkswagen-group-restricting-competition-emission-cleaning-2021-07-08/
"Now it is time for industry to show its commitment to sell mobile phones for the new charger. The common charger will make life easier for consumers, reduce waste and benefit businesses. It is a true win-win situation."
Do you know why industry had to show commitment?
Because it wasn't a legal obligation.
As sirdir correctly points out. It was talks.
A MoU was reached after talks and standards formed. That was industry consultationm
It was never a legal requirement.
It wasn't enough and Apple was the one contributing to the problem so when it came to reviewing the situation, this time (and following more industry consultation, impact assessments etc) it was legislated and finally Apple fell into line.
Still, if the EU was expecting that Apple would passively accept and comply with such a shitty standard, and with no actual legal requirement of that, of course Apple would choose to stick with Lightning as long as possible. Evidently, Apple was in legal compliance with the adaptor.
From MacRumors;
I admit that I was incorrect about the Micro USB standard being "a requirement".
It also solved problems worldwide as manufacturers switched in mass to a 'common' charging port.
Too many people here see EU+USB-C=Apple.
It doesn't. Apple is just one element in this, as the directive covers a huge swathe of products.
The EU would have preferred that industry moved in unison for the benefit of the consumer and the environment. That proved impossible so it was legislated.
Like with micro-USB there was no perfect solution and the problems with USB-C were all evaluated.
There was even a matrix in the impact assessments detailing the pros and cons of all the different possible combinations.
Most people here have never even browsed those assessments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union#Sources_of_income
https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/index/fines_en
"Other revenue, including taxes from EU staff salaries, bank interest, fines and contributions from third countries"
Governments make up arbitrary rules (e.g gatekeeper definitions) and declare that successful companies now owe them money for breaking their made-up rules.
Several years ago here amidst cheering about the EU coming down on Google with antitrust claims I said they would eventually get around to Apple, and members were not going to be cheering EU competition policies so much when it did.
The circle keeps turning, and massively powerful big tech won't be allowed to continue making their own rules up to grow more power and riches, keeping their foot on smaller throats, whether we users see it as fair or not.
You didn't "correct" their post, you merely made it more precise. A multi-trillion dollar company is also a multi-billion dollar company. 😉
Among the many hundreds of friends and colleagues I've had, I know only a single one who has ever left the Apple ecosystem. And that was entirely due to his employment contract.
So, I guess harassment of Apple's customers and developers must be a local thing near you @sirdir ;
Either that, or it's just more of the same old lie coming from people that claim to be Apple users …but are more like envious wannabes, who don't even understand the value of having a trustful gatekeeper at the doors of your community.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-set-allow-possible-retroactive-tariffs-chinese-evs-2024-03-05/
No one could possibly imagine that Chinese EV's are subsidizing exports into the EU, though with certainty, retroactive tariffs will demonstrate EU's superpowers.