US DOJ attacks nearly every aspect of Apple's business in massive antitrust suit

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  • Reply 61 of 86
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,736member
    Madbum said:
    gatorguy said:
    davgreg said:
    This is Jonathan Kanter's work. Total Socialist.

    Guess Biden should hire Hunter to apply his law degree as a consultant on Government Relations. Or maybe buy a few pictures to hang up at Tim's house.

    Biden's mis-Administration is the most blatantly political since the Jackson administration. 

    The facts are quite simple- consumers are free to buy Windows, Android, Roku and whatever hardware they wish.
    Every significant cloud service is easily available to any consumer.
    Every significant productivity app is interoperable.
    Same for Maps, TV, Music, Books and all the rest.
    Consumers are free to use any search engine they want to: Bing, DDG, Brave, Ecosia.... Yet that didn't stop the Trump administration, with wide support from a Republican legislative branch, from filing antitrust charges against Google. But that's OK because it's some other big homegrown American company being attacked and not Apple?

    I don't think it matters what party holds office. They both have emboldened the FTC and DoJ. 
    Google suit is different , that had to do with information censorship and Google was and is the dominant search engine.

    iphones are at best 50/50 in  USA market share and 4 to 1 world wide 
    Huh?? Google LOST an antitrust case involving the Play Store, and that's despite Google allowing third-party stores, sideloading, and having under a 40% share of the US smartphone market. Yet you believe Apple having a far larger share, approaching 65%, not allowing 3rd-party app stores in the US, and allowing sideloading only under very specific enterprise conditions, should make them immune? 
    avon b7ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingamAllMbaconstang
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  • Reply 62 of 86
    gatorguy said:
    Madbum said:
    gatorguy said:
    davgreg said:
    This is Jonathan Kanter's work. Total Socialist.

    Guess Biden should hire Hunter to apply his law degree as a consultant on Government Relations. Or maybe buy a few pictures to hang up at Tim's house.

    Biden's mis-Administration is the most blatantly political since the Jackson administration. 

    The facts are quite simple- consumers are free to buy Windows, Android, Roku and whatever hardware they wish.
    Every significant cloud service is easily available to any consumer.
    Every significant productivity app is interoperable.
    Same for Maps, TV, Music, Books and all the rest.
    Consumers are free to use any search engine they want to: Bing, DDG, Brave, Ecosia.... Yet that didn't stop the Trump administration, with wide support from a Republican legislative branch, from filing antitrust charges against Google. But that's OK because it's some other big homegrown American company being attacked and not Apple?

    I don't think it matters what party holds office. They both have emboldened the FTC and DoJ. 
    Google suit is different , that had to do with information censorship and Google was and is the dominant search engine.

    iphones are at best 50/50 in  USA market share and 4 to 1 world wide 
    Huh?? Google LOST an antitrust case involving the Play Store, and that's despite Google allowing third-party stores, sideloading, and having under a 40% share of the US smartphone market. Yet you believe Apple having a far larger share, approaching 65%, not allowing 3rd-party app stores in the US, and allowing sideloading only under very specific enterprise conditions, should make them immune? 
    This is what I found on that lawsuit:

    “Google reached the settlement with the state attorneys general in September, resolving litigation that the AGs brought in 2021, and the terms were disclosed in a filing Monday (available at this link). The states’ lawsuit alleged Google Play was an illegal monopoly that stifled competition from other app distributors on Android devices. Specifically, the states claimed that Google signed anticompetitive contracts to prevent other app stores from being preloaded on Android devices, paid off key app developers who might have launched rival app stores, created technological barriers to deter consumers from directly downloading apps to their devices and imposed monopoly prices on in-app purchases.”

    Very different situation from the App Store.  Google has allowed consumer side loading from the beginning, but tried to stifle competitors from taking advantage of this (allegedly) — Apple has never allowed consumer side loading, and they have been consistent with this.  There are other platforms that only allow for one app marketplace — is this illegal? 

    thttmayAllMdanoxradarthekatwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 63 of 86
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,467member
    mac_dog said:
    They want access to everyone’s phones. This is about the fact that this government is having such a difficult time controlling their narrative and they want more access to be able to control it. Yes, I’m talking about the genocide in Gaza. It’s making clear to everyone the myth that the US as global peacekeeper is just that when the reality is that we are still colonizing the world and we’re the global bullies. 
    Israel may have committed war crimes, but not genocide.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4442213-israels-may-have-committed-war-crimes-in-gaza-but-not-genocide/

    You are likely unaware of how much the U.S. Military, and our allies, facilitate global trade via maintaining freedom navigation; see Yemen current events as an example.

    You are probably unaware that France failed at creating a canal thru the Isthmus of Panama, likely due to Malaria, that the U.S. was able to complete later. That was more inline with our take on the Monroe Doctrine. The U.S. maintained its presence, including military, in the Canal Zone up until the very end of 1999, where it became Panamanian again. I would agree that the U.S. peacekeeping has been a mixed bag, as peacekeeping often is.

    France completed the Suez Canal in 1869. It, and the Panama Canal, are the two premier shortcuts for shipping in the world. Neither France nor the U.S. are "colonizing the world", and they haven't for very many decades.

    You know who is still colonizing the world? That would be Russia and the PRC, and interestingly enough, there are plenty of people as yourself that are fine with that, just as they were fine with Assad murdering Syrians.

    Put your efforts into actually stopping colonization by those two parties, and I will no longer consider you a "tankie", or a "useful idiot".

     
    baconstangradarthekatwatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 64 of 86
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,736member
    gatorguy said:
    Madbum said:
    gatorguy said:
    davgreg said:
    This is Jonathan Kanter's work. Total Socialist.

    Guess Biden should hire Hunter to apply his law degree as a consultant on Government Relations. Or maybe buy a few pictures to hang up at Tim's house.

    Biden's mis-Administration is the most blatantly political since the Jackson administration. 

    The facts are quite simple- consumers are free to buy Windows, Android, Roku and whatever hardware they wish.
    Every significant cloud service is easily available to any consumer.
    Every significant productivity app is interoperable.
    Same for Maps, TV, Music, Books and all the rest.
    Consumers are free to use any search engine they want to: Bing, DDG, Brave, Ecosia.... Yet that didn't stop the Trump administration, with wide support from a Republican legislative branch, from filing antitrust charges against Google. But that's OK because it's some other big homegrown American company being attacked and not Apple?

    I don't think it matters what party holds office. They both have emboldened the FTC and DoJ. 
    Google suit is different , that had to do with information censorship and Google was and is the dominant search engine.

    iphones are at best 50/50 in  USA market share and 4 to 1 world wide 
    Huh?? Google LOST an antitrust case involving the Play Store, and that's despite Google allowing third-party stores, sideloading, and having under a 40% share of the US smartphone market. Yet you believe Apple having a far larger share, approaching 65%, not allowing 3rd-party app stores in the US, and allowing sideloading only under very specific enterprise conditions, should make them immune? 
    This is what I found on that lawsuit:

    “Google reached the settlement with the state attorneys general in September, resolving litigation that the AGs brought in 2021, and the terms were disclosed in a filing Monday (available at this link). The states’ lawsuit alleged Google Play was an illegal monopoly that stifled competition from other app distributors on Android devices. Specifically, the states claimed that Google signed anticompetitive contracts to prevent other app stores from being preloaded on Android devices, paid off key app developers who might have launched rival app stores, created technological barriers to deter consumers from directly downloading apps to their devices and imposed monopoly prices on in-app purchases.”

    Very different situation from the App Store.  Google has allowed consumer side loading from the beginning, but tried to stifle competitors from taking advantage of this (allegedly) — Apple has never allowed consumer side loading, and they have been consistent with this.  There are other platforms that only allow for one app marketplace — is this illegal? 
    I was referring to Epic, but that one works too. 
    baconstang
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 65 of 86
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 2,586member
    US government doesn’t like it when you do privacy right. 
    AllMbaconstangwatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 66 of 86
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Madbum said:
    gatorguy said:
    davgreg said:
    This is Jonathan Kanter's work. Total Socialist.

    Guess Biden should hire Hunter to apply his law degree as a consultant on Government Relations. Or maybe buy a few pictures to hang up at Tim's house.

    Biden's mis-Administration is the most blatantly political since the Jackson administration. 

    The facts are quite simple- consumers are free to buy Windows, Android, Roku and whatever hardware they wish.
    Every significant cloud service is easily available to any consumer.
    Every significant productivity app is interoperable.
    Same for Maps, TV, Music, Books and all the rest.
    Consumers are free to use any search engine they want to: Bing, DDG, Brave, Ecosia.... Yet that didn't stop the Trump administration, with wide support from a Republican legislative branch, from filing antitrust charges against Google. But that's OK because it's some other big homegrown American company being attacked and not Apple?

    I don't think it matters what party holds office. They both have emboldened the FTC and DoJ. 
    Google suit is different , that had to do with information censorship and Google was and is the dominant search engine.

    iphones are at best 50/50 in  USA market share and 4 to 1 world wide 
    Huh?? Google LOST an antitrust case involving the Play Store, and that's despite Google allowing third-party stores, sideloading, and having under a 40% share of the US smartphone market. Yet you believe Apple having a far larger share, approaching 65%, not allowing 3rd-party app stores in the US, and allowing sideloading only under very specific enterprise conditions, should make them immune? 
    This is what I found on that lawsuit:

    “Google reached the settlement with the state attorneys general in September, resolving litigation that the AGs brought in 2021, and the terms were disclosed in a filing Monday (available at this link). The states’ lawsuit alleged Google Play was an illegal monopoly that stifled competition from other app distributors on Android devices. Specifically, the states claimed that Google signed anticompetitive contracts to prevent other app stores from being preloaded on Android devices, paid off key app developers who might have launched rival app stores, created technological barriers to deter consumers from directly downloading apps to their devices and imposed monopoly prices on in-app purchases.”

    Very different situation from the App Store.  Google has allowed consumer side loading from the beginning, but tried to stifle competitors from taking advantage of this (allegedly) — Apple has never allowed consumer side loading, and they have been consistent with this.  There are other platforms that only allow for one app marketplace — is this illegal? 
    I was referring to Epic, but that one works too. 
    Google is appealing the Epic case decision, and they settled with the other.  The point is that Google ran the Play Store different from the App Store, so the outcome for both won’t necessarily be the same — the obvious example is the Epic case against Apple and Google and how those case decisions differed.
    edited March 2024
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 67 of 86
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,722member
    jayweiss said:
    They want access to everyone’s phones. This is about the fact that this government is having such a difficult time controlling their narrative and they want more access to be able to control it. Yes, I’m talking about the genocide in Gaza. It’s making clear to everyone the myth that the US as global peacekeeper is just that when the reality is that we are still colonizing the world and we’re the global bullies.

    Yes, the government wants more access to our phones, messages, and information. 

    Apparently, you have no idea what genocide is. What is happening in Gaza is war. Hamas declared war on Israel and is bent on the genocide all Israelis and all jews. It is their stated goal. Israel is pursuing the destruction of Hamas not the Palestinian people. I feel sorry for the Palestinians in Gaza, but they let Hamas do this since Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. 

    BTW - Genocide is what the Nazi’s were doing in Europe to 6 million jews and 4 million others they didn’t like. Don’t forget the 25 million Russian who died at the hands of the Nazi’s. 

    Sorry about this little tirade…
    Gaza is the Warsaw Ghetto in reverse.....And the one God religions, the so-called true believers are/seem to be very inflexible, this current conflict is the first time in my lifetime that I have felt no hope for that region of the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Battlefield
    edited March 2024
    baconstangradarthekatwatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 68 of 86
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,722member
    jayweiss said:
    They want access to everyone’s phones. This is about the fact that this government is having such a difficult time controlling their narrative and they want more access to be able to control it. Yes, I’m talking about the genocide in Gaza. It’s making clear to everyone the myth that the US as global peacekeeper is just that when the reality is that we are still colonizing the world and we’re the global bullies.

    Yes, the government wants more access to our phones, messages, and information. 

    Apparently, you have no idea what genocide is. What is happening in Gaza is war. Hamas declared war on Israel and is bent on the genocide all Israelis and all jews. It is their stated goal. Israel is pursuing the destruction of Hamas not the Palestinian people. I feel sorry for the Palestinians in Gaza, but they let Hamas do this since Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. 

    BTW - Genocide is what the Nazi’s were doing in Europe to 6 million jews and 4 million others they didn’t like. Don’t forget the 25 million Russian who died at the hands of the Nazi’s. 

    Sorry about this little tirade…
    Great post. Strange how some try to reverse reality. 

    All wars in the modern era after World War One worldwide, civilians make up by far most of the dead this current mini war Gaza/Israel is no different......
    baconstangradarthekatwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 69 of 86
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,722member

    tmay said:
    mac_dog said:
    They want access to everyone’s phones. This is about the fact that this government is having such a difficult time controlling their narrative and they want more access to be able to control it. Yes, I’m talking about the genocide in Gaza. It’s making clear to everyone the myth that the US as global peacekeeper is just that when the reality is that we are still colonizing the world and we’re the global bullies. 
    Israel may have committed war crimes, but not genocide.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4442213-israels-may-have-committed-war-crimes-in-gaza-but-not-genocide/

    You are likely unaware of how much the U.S. Military, and our allies, facilitate global trade via maintaining freedom navigation; see Yemen current events as an example.

    You are probably unaware that France failed at creating a canal thru the Isthmus of Panama, likely due to Malaria, that the U.S. was able to complete later. That was more inline with our take on the Monroe Doctrine. The U.S. maintained its presence, including military, in the Canal Zone up until the very end of 1999, where it became Panamanian again. I would agree that the U.S. peacekeeping has been a mixed bag, as peacekeeping often is.

    France completed the Suez Canal in 1869. It, and the Panama Canal, are the two premier shortcuts for shipping in the world. Neither France nor the U.S. are "colonizing the world", and they haven't for very many decades.

    You know who is still colonizing the world? That would be Russia and the PRC, and interestingly enough, there are plenty of people as yourself that are fine with that, just as they were fine with Assad murdering Syrians.

    Put your efforts into actually stopping colonization by those two parties, and I will no longer consider you a "tankie", or a "useful idiot".

     

    Not true currently indigenous people around the world are currently getting the boot as usual the Mapuche in Chile or the islanders on the Indonesia western side of New Guinea, West China, or the Nordic Far North, do America Indians still exist in the eastern US I notice that when they raise their hands in mild protest like union organizers they seem to get crushed? Colonization is still on going worldwide it's just more quiet it is more than a Two Body Problem in fact it's a collective Human problem.

    And the surviving (people) leftovers will be gaslighted out of existence do the Netanyahu.
    edited March 2024
    tht
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  • Reply 70 of 86
    baconstangbaconstang Posts: 1,182member
    US government doesn’t like it when you do privacy right. 
    NO government does...
    AllMwatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 71 of 86
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,939moderator
    bulk001 said:
    Popcorn ready! It is about time the US stepped up and filed this case. Concerned about safety? Only download from the official Apple Store. Your iPhone should be like your Mac - download what you want from where you want and accept that there are risks to doing so if you go outside the Mac App Store. 
    Except when something goes wrong and your bank account is cleaned out, it’s Apple who is going to take a reputational hit based on confusion over who is to blame.  And that’s a huge hit to the value of Apple’s business.  For the actions of a few unsavvy users and a few unscrupulous app publishers/hackers.  
    edited March 2024
    williamlondontmaybaconstangwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 72 of 86

    After years of complaints by competitors, and an equally-long investigation, the long-rumored antitrust suit against Apple has finally been filed by the US Department of Justice -- and it is going after nearly every part of the company.

    It's about time!!! 

    Apple has blatantly and greedily abused and bullied both developers and customers for years. In the name of private security, they have done everything in their power to protect their bottom line by limiting competition. They only started to show a bit more flexibility after being sued or threathened to be sued, receving hefty fines for anticompetitive behaviour and realizing that things are not going in the direction they would like.     

    I love Apple's products but as a consumer, I'm happy this is happening. Apple is no boy scout, this should have happened years ago!


    williamlondon
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  • Reply 73 of 86
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,939moderator

    mac_dog said:
    They want access to everyone’s phones. This is about the fact that this government is having such a difficult time controlling their narrative and they want more access to be able to control it. Yes, I’m talking about the genocide in Gaza. It’s making clear to everyone the myth that the US as global peacekeeper is just that when the reality is that we are still colonizing the world and we’re the global bullies. 
    If Hamas lays down their weapons there will be no more war.  If Israel lays down their weapons there will be no more Israel.
    - Golda Meir
    jdwwilliamlondontmaybaconstangAllMwatto_cobra
     5Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 74 of 86
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,939moderator
    Madbum said:
    I never voted or been political in my life but I will for sure vote clueless Biden out this November 

    ‪monopoly? There are more non-Apple phones; out there Biden and most are Chinese androids


    Biden is doing the bidding for Chinese communist owned Epic games with this lawsuit


    Joe Biden knows how to do two things.

    Siphon endless American money to Corrupt Ukraine and trying to take down great American companies.

    Think about this next time you vote for Democrats, you are voting for communists . Full stop

    stay out of our devices! 
    The investigation that led to the announcement of this legal action was begin under the Trump administration.  Fact.

    In our tripartite government structure there should be separation of the DOJ from the executive branch. Biden should NOT attempt to influence an ongoing investigation.  He would be correctly castigated for DOING SO, not for failing to do so.  

    Are you still certain it’s Biden who is clueless?  
    danoxwilliamlondontmaybaconstangwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 75 of 86
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,472member
    If Hamas lays down their weapons there will be no more war.  If Israel lays down their weapons there will be no more Israel.
    - Golda Meir
    Glad to see we agree on something.  Well, we both like Apple products, so that's two things.

    Are you still certain it’s Biden who is clueless?  
    Until Biden agrees to take a much needed metal competency test, one cannot say how truly clueless the current President is.  But if listening to a multiple of his speeches is any indication, there is much to be concerned about.

    If anyone is clueless, it would be Merrick Garland. That's not merely my opinion either:
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/22/analysts-mostly-non-plussed-by-doj-suit-and-believe-apple-will-win
    AllMwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 76 of 86
    dewmedewme Posts: 6,007member
    US government doesn’t like it when you do privacy right. 
    NO government does...
    Yeah, and government’s are the only ones who believe that they have an intrinsic right to own a Walled Garden. Of course some government Walled Gardens are built to keep people out while others are built to keep people in. 
    AllMwatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 77 of 86
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,722member
    bulk001 said:
    Popcorn ready! It is about time the US stepped up and filed this case. Concerned about safety? Only download from the official Apple Store. Your iPhone should be like your Mac - download what you want from where you want and accept that there are risks to doing so if you go outside the Mac App Store. 
    Except when something goes wrong and your bank account is cleaned out, it’s Apple who is going to take a reputational hit based on confusion over who is to blame.  And that’s a huge hit to the value of Apple’s business.  For the actions of a few unsavvy users and a few unscrupulous app publishers/hackers.  

    Many of parents who had their kid spend large sums of money on or within one of the game apps always went on the local news to blame Apple for the charge Sweeney Todd was never in the frame. :smile: 
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 78 of 86
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,467member
    danox said:

    tmay said:
    mac_dog said:
    They want access to everyone’s phones. This is about the fact that this government is having such a difficult time controlling their narrative and they want more access to be able to control it. Yes, I’m talking about the genocide in Gaza. It’s making clear to everyone the myth that the US as global peacekeeper is just that when the reality is that we are still colonizing the world and we’re the global bullies. 
    Israel may have committed war crimes, but not genocide.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4442213-israels-may-have-committed-war-crimes-in-gaza-but-not-genocide/

    You are likely unaware of how much the U.S. Military, and our allies, facilitate global trade via maintaining freedom navigation; see Yemen current events as an example.

    You are probably unaware that France failed at creating a canal thru the Isthmus of Panama, likely due to Malaria, that the U.S. was able to complete later. That was more inline with our take on the Monroe Doctrine. The U.S. maintained its presence, including military, in the Canal Zone up until the very end of 1999, where it became Panamanian again. I would agree that the U.S. peacekeeping has been a mixed bag, as peacekeeping often is.

    France completed the Suez Canal in 1869. It, and the Panama Canal, are the two premier shortcuts for shipping in the world. Neither France nor the U.S. are "colonizing the world", and they haven't for very many decades.

    You know who is still colonizing the world? That would be Russia and the PRC, and interestingly enough, there are plenty of people as yourself that are fine with that, just as they were fine with Assad murdering Syrians.

    Put your efforts into actually stopping colonization by those two parties, and I will no longer consider you a "tankie", or a "useful idiot".

     

    Not true currently indigenous people around the world are currently getting the boot as usual the Mapuche in Chile or the islanders on the Indonesia western side of New Guinea, West China, or the Nordic Far North, do America Indians still exist in the eastern US I notice that when they raise their hands in mild protest like union organizers they seem to get crushed? Colonization is still on going worldwide it's just more quiet it is more than a Two Body Problem in fact it's a collective Human problem.

    And the surviving (people) leftovers will be gaslighted out of existence do the Netanyahu.
    Native Americans, as they prefer to be called, still exist in the Eastern U.S.

    It's a long list;

    https://www.bia.gov/regional-offices/eastern/tribes-served

    I apologize for not recognizing all of the colonization going on around the world, if that is what is going on with your examples, but I completely agree that indigenous people are facing pressure from larger populations of other ethnicities within their own countries.

    I stand by my statement that the U.S. is not currently colonizing the world, and hasn't since the end of WWII, when the Philippines was granted its full independence.

    There are a few vestiges of the Spanish colonization that the U.S. acquired in the Spanish American War, that are still maintained today. Guam, a few other islands in the Pacific, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

     The United States assumed territorial control over the southern portion of Guantánamo Bay under the 1903 Lease. The United States exercises jurisdiction and control over this territory as the home of the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, while recognizing that Cuba retains ultimate sovereignty.
    Your statement with regard to the U.S. being a colonizer is false.




    edited March 2024
    baconstangmegacookiewatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 79 of 86
    Not voting for either idiot for president this year!!!

    Amazon is more of a Monopoly threat, then Apple or Google.  How many mom and Pop shops have been closed because of Walmart and Amazon and other big box stores. buying products from Apple or Google or 7-Eleven is a consumers choice.
    Hmmm. Not an expert on the way this works but I'm pretty sure the POTUS and his party doesn't just tell the DOJ who and what they should go after.

    Also, I'd be concerned that you don't see any difference between a party lead by a man who is trying to destroy American democracy and a man who is considered just too old (and yet somehow also a conniving genius).
    thtwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 80 of 86

    charlesn said:
    pslice said:
    I realize the DOJ is an independent entity from the political parties,
    I hope this was sarcasm. Nothing could be less true in reality. 
    While that may be true, is it more influenced by congress or the senate? Because I'm pretty sure the POTUS doesn't actually snap his fingers and tells the DOJ to take action.  I'm actually asking.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
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