The EU is becoming less and less financially tenable on a daily basis. The only question at this point would seem to be, how long till Apple pulls out? And I doubt they'll be the last to do so.
And yet, in the backward world in which we live, instead of defending a major US company by targeting European companies as retribution, the US Justice department is targeting Apple. I am sure they could find issues with Shell, Volkswagen Siemens, BP etc. At the very least,make it very difficult and expensive for them to do business in the US.
Again, the EU is saying Apple needs to allow competitors free access to its technology and platform. At fines of a billion dollars a day, Apple would be better off abandoning the EU market. At tough pill but the EU seems determined to have a PC style market for smart phones where all manufacturers pretty much offer the same devices and services and there’s little innovation or profit.
Why? There's little chance of Apple losing customers for its AppStore. What percentage of app buyers will even consider third-party stores? Based on Google Play, which has had to deal with "not-Google" app stores for years, not many. Maybe in the low single digits. So throw away 97% of the revenues because that can't have that other 3%, too. Something about cutting off your nose comes to mind.
It will come down to the actual fines that are imposed and survive appeals. But no company will do business in an environment where it can’t make money and where accepting the terms imposed by regulators threatens its core business practices. By making the fines extreme, the EU has created this situation.
We are already seeing Apple delaying implementation of Apple Intelligence in the EU over the DMA; as AI becomes increasingly integrated into Apple’s ecosystem, with older devices aging out, this will be another issue that will need to be resolved.
Again, the EU is saying Apple needs to allow competitors free access to its technology and platform. At fines of a billion dollars a day, Apple would be better off abandoning the EU market. At tough pill but the EU seems determined to have a PC style market for smart phones where all manufacturers pretty much offer the same devices and services and there’s little innovation or profit.
Why? There's little chance of Apple losing customers for its AppStore. What percentage of app buyers will even consider third-party stores? Based on Google Play, which has had to deal with "not-Google" app stores for years, not many. Maybe in the low single digits. So throw away 97% of the revenues because that can't have that other 3%, too. Something about cutting off your nose comes to mind.
It will come down to the actual fines that are imposed and survive appeals. But no company will do business in an environment where it can’t make money and where accepting the terms imposed by regulators threatens its core business practices. By making the fines extreme, the EU has created this situation.
We are already seeing Apple delaying implementation of Apple Intelligence in the EU over the DMA; as AI becomes increasingly integrated into Apple’s ecosystem, with older devices aging out, this will be another issue that will need to be resolved.
Parts of it are delayed worldwide since Apple already said it would initially be restricted to US English. "Because of DMA" may or may not be true when Apple has the pieces in play to move into other regions. But that's not this year, DMA or not.
Again, the EU is saying Apple needs to allow competitors free access to its technology and platform. At fines of a billion dollars a day, Apple would be better off abandoning the EU market. At tough pill but the EU seems determined to have a PC style market for smart phones where all manufacturers pretty much offer the same devices and services and there’s little innovation or profit.
Why? There's little chance of Apple losing customers for its AppStore. What percentage of app buyers will even consider third-party stores? Based on Google Play, which has had to deal with "not-Google" app stores for years, not many. Maybe in the low single digits. So throw away 97% of the revenues because that can't have that other 3%, too. Something about cutting off your nose comes to mind.
It will come down to the actual fines that are imposed and survive appeals. But no company will do business in an environment where it can’t make money and where accepting the terms imposed by regulators threatens its core business practices. By making the fines extreme, the EU has created this situation.
We are already seeing Apple delaying implementation of Apple Intelligence in the EU over the DMA; as AI becomes increasingly integrated into Apple’s ecosystem, with older devices aging out, this will be another issue that will need to be resolved.
Parts of it are delayed worldwide since Apple already said it would initially be restricted to US English. "Because of DMA" may or may not be true when Apple has the pieces in play to move into other regions. But that's not this year, DMA or not.
Not ready for release and not working on it are 2 different things. I suspect Apple isn't even working on it for EU languages, unless they are widely spoken outside the EU. Why waste the resources? So, yes, the DMA will delay it, or permanently prevent its release in the EU. Probably the latter unless the EU stops their anti-Apple, anti-American crusade against American big tech. Haven't they learned from past crusades? (Maybe not, the US learned not a single lesson from, for example, prohibition.)
Again, the EU is saying Apple needs to allow competitors free access to its technology and platform. At fines of a billion dollars a day, Apple would be better off abandoning the EU market. At tough pill but the EU seems determined to have a PC style market for smart phones where all manufacturers pretty much offer the same devices and services and there’s little innovation or profit.
Why? There's little chance of Apple losing customers for its AppStore. What percentage of app buyers will even consider third-party stores? Based on Google Play, which has had to deal with "not-Google" app stores for years, not many. Maybe in the low single digits. So throw away 97% of the revenues because that can't have that other 3%, too. Something about cutting off your nose comes to mind.
It will come down to the actual fines that are imposed and survive appeals. But no company will do business in an environment where it can’t make money and where accepting the terms imposed by regulators threatens its core business practices. By making the fines extreme, the EU has created this situation.
We are already seeing Apple delaying implementation of Apple Intelligence in the EU over the DMA; as AI becomes increasingly integrated into Apple’s ecosystem, with older devices aging out, this will be another issue that will need to be resolved.
Parts of it are delayed worldwide since Apple already said it would initially be restricted to US English. "Because of DMA" may or may not be true when Apple has the pieces in play to move into other regions. But that's not this year, DMA or not.
I suppose we’ll find out when it is actually released, but if AI is gated by physical location, that would point to the DMA being at least part of the delay. If it's purely the language, switching the device region/language should unlock it like with other features.
If there are enough Apple Users who Throw a Fit, maybe the EU Cheeseheads will Cave and get out of the way of Commerce.
Couple Years using Android and they may change their (i)Tune(s)!
You would make the world worst CEO. The legal fallout of that decision would alone bankrupt any organization even the likes of Apple. Think of all the corporations and government organization that rely on iOS and iPadOS. The moment you “withdraw” out of spite because you don’t want to comply with laws is the moment you can expect to be sued to hell and back for damages.
Anyway. As for true *cosf* that Apple has to make with these App Store changes, I think it’s fair Apple charges a fee. I think the EU will need to accept such a thing. However that fee needs to be fair. It cannot be a sleazy way to force developers to stick with the App Store.
To me it seems obvious that the European Union’s fixation on Apple and its policies have little to nothing to do with competition, developer and consumer rights or any other such issue. It is simply about them wanting a large helping of Apple pie without needing to modify the tax system and all the resultant complications that may cause. They should be honest and transparent about this rather than looking increasingly foolish and dishonest for using the DMA as a pretext to claw in revenue.
What revenue? If Apple complies then there are no fines. Both Google and Microsoft have already dealt with this in the past. In fact I seem to remember cheers from the grandstands here. For Apple, it's all new, but not different from the fines levied against others for non-compliance.
It's entirely up to Apple how far they want to push "malicious" compliance.
“Compliance” means apple getting ripped off that’s why. They invest incredibly into their platform, making it the premiere developer partnership - and the eu just craps all over them, essentially forcing apple into the business of generating profits for everyone EXCEPT itself.
Nothing “malicious” about figuring out how to generate a profit - because that’s the actual point of running a business.
Nobody creates a product/service/platform for the purpose of providing “free” rides to everyone else at their expense.
The eu is literally anti-business. Well… anti-American business. Euro business are making out like actual thieves in this one.
They’re literally trying to force apple to pay for a store, pay for marketing, provide exposure, shelf space, etc., just so the vendors can make money where apple doesn’t get its fair share. So apple finds a way to make that money back as a basic platform/stocking, advertising/shelf space platform fee snd the eu wants to rob them of that. Giving competitors free billboards in apples store directing customers OUT of apples store - and they don’t even pay for the billboard. Apple has to. Nowhere else will you see that crap.
It may be the law in the eu, but it’s unethical and criminal.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple exits the EU marketplace at some point. They are already delaying Apple Intelligence and iPhone mirroring in Europe.
As I understand things, the DMA doesn't undercut intellectual property rights under EU law, so this will be litigated from here until the cows come home. No way Apple is giving away their IP for free.
Apple should just shut down the App Store in the EU and have side loading be the exclusive way to install apps. Wipe their hands of it all and let companies figure out the logistics of marketing, hosting, payment processing, etc themselves.
Apple Intelligence is only the start of features that the EU will be left behind on.
I really think you’re on to something there.
and then just mostly freeze the feature set of the European version of iOS. The EU can continue to get faster chips and a better camera, but very few if any innovations in AI, software, or ecosystem.
Apparently the EU places no value on Xcode and the costs associated with it. I would think we could see a model where companies have to pay significant amounts to use Xcode if they are pursuing other selling options.
The XCode angle is interesting. Just take a look at the licensing model for Microsoft Visual Studio (not VS Code) to get a taste of what medium to large scale software development organizations are paying for Microsoft’s software development toolkits.
This isn’t a perfect apples-to-apples comparison but it does show that Apple could pull in a lot of revenue by charging for XCode and other related services, like larger fees for being in the App Store. They would still offer free versions for individual developers, like Microsoft does, but some of the most vocal Apple mega-whiners aren’t one person shops. They’d be paying out some serious cash for development tooling.
So far I’m only talking about development tooling costs. When you get into larger development organizations you’re also getting into the high costs associated with getting higher tier technical support so you have a dedicated person on the inside that gets your problems, issues, and questions answered very quickly and responsively. There are also support tiers that operate on an incident level, with so many incidents being part of the contract and anything after that costing more. At the higher tiers you’re not dealing with Apple’s regular developer support channel that is dealing with numerous individual developers. I know Microsoft is very big on higher tier developer support for large accounts, but I’m not sure how Apple does this. I can’t imagine companies like Adobe, Microsoft, Google, Meta, etc., having to call into the same technical support you get for $99 USD a year.
My point is that Apple is leaving a whole lot of money on the table that they could collect if they operated like other large ecosystem owners. I don’t know why Apple embarked on the path they are on where they give away a lot of what some other companies in a similar position were charging for. Maybe they just wanted to attract a lot of individual and small business level developers to build their developer community. Maybe Apple listened to what Steve Ballmer was saying about, in a very frothy way, the value of having a large, vibrant, and engaged developer community. Apple ultimately benefited from their approach, to many competitor’s chagrin. Now they are paying for it.
Comments
We are already seeing Apple delaying implementation of Apple Intelligence in the EU over the DMA; as AI becomes increasingly integrated into Apple’s ecosystem, with older devices aging out, this will be another issue that will need to be resolved.
Think of all the corporations and government organization that rely on iOS and iPadOS. The moment you “withdraw” out of spite because you don’t want to comply with laws is the moment you can expect to be sued to hell and back for damages.
Anyway. As for true *cosf* that Apple has to make with these App Store changes, I think it’s fair Apple charges a fee. I think the EU will need to accept such a thing. However that fee needs to be fair. It cannot be a sleazy way to force developers to stick with the App Store.
As I understand things, the DMA doesn't undercut intellectual property rights under EU law, so this will be litigated from here until the cows come home. No way Apple is giving away their IP for free.
and then just mostly freeze the feature set of the European version of iOS. The EU can continue to get faster chips and a better camera, but very few if any innovations in AI, software, or ecosystem.
I thought the USA needs to stop being the World Police? Now you want them to dictate how other continents regulate businesses?
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Visual-Studio-Licensing-Whitepaper-July2023.pdf
This isn’t a perfect apples-to-apples comparison but it does show that Apple could pull in a lot of revenue by charging for XCode and other related services, like larger fees for being in the App Store. They would still offer free versions for individual developers, like Microsoft does, but some of the most vocal Apple mega-whiners aren’t one person shops. They’d be paying out some serious cash for development tooling.
So far I’m only talking about development tooling costs. When you get into larger development organizations you’re also getting into the high costs associated with getting higher tier technical support so you have a dedicated person on the inside that gets your problems, issues, and questions answered very quickly and responsively. There are also support tiers that operate on an incident level, with so many incidents being part of the contract and anything after that costing more. At the higher tiers you’re not dealing with Apple’s regular developer support channel that is dealing with numerous individual developers. I know Microsoft is very big on higher tier developer support for large accounts, but I’m not sure how Apple does this. I can’t imagine companies like Adobe, Microsoft, Google, Meta, etc., having to call into the same technical support you get for $99 USD a year.
My point is that Apple is leaving a whole lot of money on the table that they could collect if they operated like other large ecosystem owners. I don’t know why Apple embarked on the path they are on where they give away a lot of what some other companies in a similar position were charging for. Maybe they just wanted to attract a lot of individual and small business level developers to build their developer community. Maybe Apple listened to what Steve Ballmer was saying about, in a very frothy way, the value of having a large, vibrant, and engaged developer community. Apple ultimately benefited from their approach, to many competitor’s chagrin. Now they are paying for it.