Cook says Apple wasn't first with AI, but will be the best

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  • Reply 21 of 42
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,023member
    auxio said:
    avon b7 said:
    Tim has to talk it up. It's his job but sometimes he does go overboard.

    We think it's the best. Yeah! I can't imagine him going on record as saying anything else, so long as 'think' is in there somewhere.

    At least he is admitting that they are behind. 

    Yes, they have done ML for a long time but so has everybody else, and arguably better and more far reaching but I'm sure he'd still say he thinks it's the best. 

    I can't blame him for that but Apple made a strategic goof here and that's why it is behind and only the very latest hardware will be able to run it. If this were some kind of long term, well thought out strategic plan, at the very least, iPhones would have shipped with more RAM for the last few generations.

    The reality looks more like' Yikes! We need to get rolling on this fast!'

    That's why we got the initial response of not even uttering the letters 'AI' and doubling down on ML instead. In hindsight that was foolish but Apple literally had nothing to offer up back then so at least it is understandable. 

    One year on, AI was at least utterable and even became the star of WWDC but still there was nothing to show for it until 'later'. The new iPhones came and still AI was the star and STILL there was nothing to show for it and now the complete feature roll out isn't expected until 2025.

    From the moment that the generative models became news and quickly stormed to over 100 million users, Apple has been on the back foot. 
    You know why Apple was hesitant about AI, but you'd rather dance around it with investor hype. To do AI properly you need to collect data about everything people do on your platforms. And to get people to agree to that, you need to hide the fact that you're doing it in convoluted terms of service agreements. Or what I call, sleazy business tactics. Something which Apple doesn't have the stomach for. Having business ethics is something which should be applauded in my books.
    It was not 'hesitancy' IMO but 'impossibility'. Apple goofed strategically. Nobody expects Tim Cook to actually come out and say so of course and that's fine.

    Yes, it all takes humongous amounts of data to create viable solutions. There are ethical issues surrounding both the foundational data and the use of resulting AI solutions but they have been known for decades. From theory to reality and beyond.


    Obviously, hesitancy is not a valid explanation here and let's not forget all the ML talk from Apple a couple of years back and everyone trying to claim Apple wasn't 'behind' because they've been 'doing ML since 2017'.

    ML requires huge amounts of data too! Yet Apple wasn't 'hesitant'.

    The problem is that Apple was caught wrong footed - strategically.

    Huawei launched an entire AI platform back in 2018 with absolutely everything needed to get moving on AI. From cluster systems with thousands of cores to software frameworks (CANN/Mindspore) to chipsets for cluster systems (Ascend Max) right down to earbuds (Ascend Mini/Nano) and everything else in between.

    Or Nvidia. Or Google. Or Meta.

    Apple didn't move when it should have. It's now late to 'where the puck is'.

    It isn't the end of the world but in terms of actual shipping products, it is trying to catch up.

    edited October 21 9secondkox2
  • Reply 22 of 42
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,023member
    auxio said:
    Pema said:
    we shall see. 
    1) Apple Car
    2) Apple Vision Pro
    3) iPhone 16

    Apple needs a few hits to help us forget the duds. 
    If Apple doesn't try anything new, the media says they're not innovating. If they do, and it's not an immediate success, then they're a dud. Those who can, do, those who can't, critique.

    The industry is tough. Apple has slacked in some areas and deserves criticism for slacking. 

    Can you think of a valid reason (valid for consumers) as to why they went through all of 2023 without updating the iPad? 

    I was faced with the option of buying an already outdated iPad last Christmas and at full Apple retail prices (third party outlets were barred from applying discounts). 

    I criticised that by taking my money to a competitor.

    When the 'new' amounts to implementing Android features on iOS and adding a button, that deserves criticism. 

    Refusing to call the camera button a button deserves criticism too. 

    This year's iPhone update was not great IMO and I can fully understand people wanting/expecting more for their money. 

    It is very subjective of course so YMMV but when the colour of an iPhone reaches headline status and people double down on the word 'iteration' you know something is off. 

    How about something simple: true fast charging (wired and wireless and reverse) up to competing flagship offerings, and the same for the non-pro screen refresh rates. 

    That at a minimum. 
    9secondkox2
  • Reply 23 of 42
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,181member
    avon b7 said:
    AppleZulu said:
    avon b7 said:
    AppleZulu said:
    It’s hilarious how the folks here who keep saying Apple is playing catch-up don’t remember all the other things that Apple did “late” that then became the thing that everyone else had to catch up to. 

    Certainly, you don't mean CDRW, USB 2.0, music purchases vs streaming, the ton of well trodden Android features appearing on iPhones year after year, Siri actually becoming competitive, the HomePod, batteries and charging etc.


    All I can assume from what you said was that you agree that Apple is behind on this, although trying to argue otherwise with Tim Cook admitting as much would be pushing it. 

    As for the future, and plainly obvious to most, is that we'll have to wait and see what actually ships and how it performs. Competitors aren't exactly waiting for Apple to catch up. 

    The same applies to the homegrown 5G modem etc. 
    Yeah, I mean things like iPod, iPhone, iTunes, the App Store, Apple Music, iPad, AppleTV, Apple Watch, AirPods, etc. These are all things that came "late" as Apple was trying to "catch up." The peanut gallery snickered as they were introduced, and within a couple of years, the competition was trying to catch up to how Apple had not only entered each of those markets, but changed the entire market, forcing those competitors to try to modify their not-ready-for-prime-time-but-first-to-market hot messes in order to catch up to Apple's better thought-out implementation. 

    AI right now is a hot mess. The stuff out there is trained on stolen IP, produces dubious results, and is more novelty than useful. Chances are, Apple Intelligence will will be usefully integrated into Apple's products and services, making it an intuitive extension of how everything else just works, rather than a standalone AI thing that people fiddle with as an odd novelty.
    You think the iPad, Apple Watch, Apple TV, AirPods etc are the best devices in their respective categories? 

    They may well be better integrated with the Apple ecosystem but there are compelling alternatives to Apple out there and arguably better! 

    It all depends on what you are looking for. 

    And Apple has put itself into its current position by doing things like going through the entirety of 2023 without updating the iPad! 

    A blanket statement isn't a credible response.

    The point was Apple is currently behind and you haven't provided anything to suggest otherwise.

    AI is far from a 'hot mess' (another blanket statement that means nothing).

    It has been a massive success even with all the tradeoffs. 
    Let's see. The iPad really has no significant competition. Don't even start with the MS Surface. When Apple Watch was released, the peanut gallery insisted that no one was wearing watches any more, because the phone in your pocket has a clock, and no one was going to pay that price for a glorified Fitbit. Now you can't go anywhere without seeing people wearing Apple Watches. AppleTV has been a slow burn, but I'm pretty sure Google discontinued its crappy chromecast dongle and just replaced it with a me-too box that's an AppleTV copy. Turns out having an external box like that is better than having to replace your entire TV because the built-in streaming hardware goes out of date long before the screen does. Folks also snickered at AppleTV+ content, and yet their original series and movies are now a high value for the comparatively inexpensive streaming service. Before AirPods, everybody was mad because Apple dropped the 100+ year-old headphone jack. At that point wireless ear buds were of middling quality at best. Now AirPods are ubiquitous, and they're about to introduce a hearing-aid feature set that will certainly benefit a lot of folks. I will assume you not mentioning iPod, iPhone, iTunes, the App Store, and Apple Music in your comment is acknowledgment that those things all "came from behind" to fundamentally redefine their market segments.

    And yes, AI is indeed currently a hot mess, dubiously trained and looking for a purpose, while people are now suddenly realizing that it actually isn't just about to become sentient.The AI currently out there is made up of large (questionably sourced) databases on the back end, with a probability-based word jumble on the front end that do not, in fact, have reasoning power, and are, in fact, incapable of creativity. The hype has led people for the last couple of years to be duped into mistaking the reasonably good mastery of human language as evidence of actual cognitive processes happening behind the words. It's a search engine that can respond to queries with complete sentences. So with those limitations in the current AI market, it's a pretty good bet that Apple will be able to integrate that kind of resource into its ecosystem in a way that seamlessly enhances the utility of Apple devices, without screaming "look at me!, I'm AI!" Meanwhile, the AI that Apple supposedly has to catch up with exists largely as standalone chat programs that can generate aggregated search results (of dubious quality or accuracy) based on direct user queries. 

    You go ahead an bookmark this page and come back in two or three years to tell me I was wrong, o.k.?
    muthuk_vanalingamforegoneconclusionmike1delreyjones9secondkox2williamlondondanoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 42
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,763member
    avon b7 said:
    auxio said:
    avon b7 said:
    Tim has to talk it up. It's his job but sometimes he does go overboard.

    We think it's the best. Yeah! I can't imagine him going on record as saying anything else, so long as 'think' is in there somewhere.

    At least he is admitting that they are behind. 

    Yes, they have done ML for a long time but so has everybody else, and arguably better and more far reaching but I'm sure he'd still say he thinks it's the best. 

    I can't blame him for that but Apple made a strategic goof here and that's why it is behind and only the very latest hardware will be able to run it. If this were some kind of long term, well thought out strategic plan, at the very least, iPhones would have shipped with more RAM for the last few generations.

    The reality looks more like' Yikes! We need to get rolling on this fast!'

    That's why we got the initial response of not even uttering the letters 'AI' and doubling down on ML instead. In hindsight that was foolish but Apple literally had nothing to offer up back then so at least it is understandable. 

    One year on, AI was at least utterable and even became the star of WWDC but still there was nothing to show for it until 'later'. The new iPhones came and still AI was the star and STILL there was nothing to show for it and now the complete feature roll out isn't expected until 2025.

    From the moment that the generative models became news and quickly stormed to over 100 million users, Apple has been on the back foot. 
    You know why Apple was hesitant about AI, but you'd rather dance around it with investor hype. To do AI properly you need to collect data about everything people do on your platforms. And to get people to agree to that, you need to hide the fact that you're doing it in convoluted terms of service agreements. Or what I call, sleazy business tactics. Something which Apple doesn't have the stomach for. Having business ethics is something which should be applauded in my books.
    It was not 'hesitancy' IMO but 'impossibility'. Apple goofed strategically. Nobody expects Tim Cook to actually come out and say so of course and that's fine.

    Yes, it all takes humongous amounts of data to create viable solutions. There are ethical issues surrounding both the foundational data and the use of resulting AI solutions but they have been known for decades. From theory to reality and beyond

    You speak about data like someone who is truly disconnected and simply sees everything as a game to be won. The amount of information which has, and continues to be, collected about people's lives without their knowledge is absolutely unethical. And sure, it has been studied, but still continues on in the face of all that research because investors, politicians, and corporate leaders choose not to care. If it's a "strategic goof" to actually care about what you put out into the world and how it will affect people, then I'm happy to support such "goofs".

    Obviously, hesitancy is not a valid explanation here and let's not forget all the ML talk from Apple a couple of years back and everyone trying to claim Apple wasn't 'behind' because they've been 'doing ML since 2017'.

    ML requires huge amounts of data too! Yet Apple wasn't 'hesitant'


    The kind of data being gathered for ML is very different. Problem spaces like handwriting recognition, for which the data couldn't possibly be used to build a profile about someone's life for nefarious purposes.

    The problem is that Apple was caught wrong footed - strategically.

    Huawei launched an entire AI platform back in 2018 with absolutely everything needed to get moving on AI. From cluster systems with thousands of cores to software frameworks (CANN/Mindspore) to chipsets for cluster systems (Ascend Max) right down to earbuds (Ascend Mini/Nano) and everything else in between.

    Or Nvidia. Or Google. Or Meta.

    Aside from Nvidia, which is just for hardware, those are all companies which have deliberately hid their data collection behaviour from customers in their attempts to "win" the data gathering/AI race. Something which I refuse to support.
    williamlondondanoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 42
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,747member
    It's funny that so many folks lean on the "Apple Car" as being a character defining "Apple failure" when it was never even an industry insider, much less a publicly announced product. With cutting edge R&D there are always times when the most thoughtful, selfless, and merciful act is to cancel the project before it gets released as a heavily compromised product at best or a danger to society at worst. They brought the Apple Car project along long enough to realize it was never going to be viable in the form they originally intended. Apple killed it because it needed killing. Armchair quarterbacks with 20-20 hindsight will undoubtedly argue that they didn't kill it soon enough.

    Apple and Tim Cook have a winning record when it comes to bringing products to market that are highly successful and profitable. Apple, like every other person and organization on the planet, is not perfect. They have wins and losses and they usually know when it's time to take the loss, gather whatever lessons and IP there is to be retained from the effort, and live to fight another day with their knowledge and reputation fully intact and prepared to regroup and go after the next big challenge. 

    I have a more confidence in Apple to bring whatever AI is to become for consumers to market in a useful format than I do some other companies even though I'm still not clear on exactly what it will mean to me. I am pleasantly surprised at the usefulness of GhatGPT as a "Better Google" or "Smarter Alexa" even though it will sometimes spew incorrect answers. I'm not in the business of fact checking AI generated results by any means, which would be impossible, but I know better than to implicitly trust everything that comes out of any AI algorithm. I don't expect that to change with Apple Intelligence.

    I don't need to have my emails summarized because I can read them because I don't get 500 emails a day. When it comes to features like email summaries it's almost like we're trying to use new technology to undo the problems we've created for ourselves with older technology. I suppose that can be considered progress. Maybe AI will simply allow us and our little monkey brains to survive in the environment we are now starting to live in. At some point the AI will make decisions for us and we'll just lay around waiting for a few more food pellets to show up in our feed bowl every now and then.
    mike1mattinozwilliamlondondanoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 42
    AI maybe needed in order to get the Apple Car project moving again.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 27 of 42
    Preach, Tim. P R E A C H !
  • Reply 28 of 42
    Pema said:
    we shall see. 
    1) Apple Car
    2) Apple Vision Pro
    3) iPhone 16

    Apple needs a few hits to help us forget the duds. 
    Tim’s success isn’t necessarily measured by new products. 

    Though he does have some notable items:

    Apple Watch

    m series processors

    streaming video and music

    turning apple into a lean, mean success machine. 

    Cook’s forte isn’t the same as Jobs. It just isn’t. Where jobs was a visionary, who took the basic building blocks of computing and nearly single-handed brought forth modern computing as we know it - including the advent of the true smartphone, cook is the legendary refiner. Cook is not and cannot be Jobs. Likewise Steve was not and could never accomplish what cook has. They are two perfect back to back leaders for apple. Jobs laid the foundation and vision. Cook took that, ram with it. And built a great big, powerful success castle on top of that. 

    You can’t measure them the same. Jobs cwss easy to see. Mac, mouse, gui, iPod, iPad, iPhone, etc. etc. but cook is more about the refining of those with some of his own launches along the way. Apple under cook is far more successful than under jobs. Take away jobs and there is no cook to follow. Take away cook at the wrong time and what jobs started doesn’t go this far or this high. 

    The apple car is a tragedy. It could have been great. Especially if Hyundai would have kept quiet. Or if there wasn’t an adversarial relationship with Tesla. I think those are lessons learned. Jobs had to learn his lessons as well. The Vision Pro was a lesson on not forgetting why apple has historically said “no” far more often than “yes.” And you can bet these hard lessons will not be forgotten. But they are drops in the bucket compared to the oceans of success Cook has honed Apple to deliver. 

    And now he has his Jobs moment - navigating the “Wild West” days of AI to reign in and hone a responsible way of utilizing artificial intelligence that is consistently useful and not just a nerd project, is ethically responsible and not just an excuse for rampant IP theft, and isn’t a gateway for bad actors and unscrupulous developers to distort facts or invade your privacy. 

    This is the huge deal of recent times and Cook is stamping more of his legacy here as well as reminding us - Apple has rarely been first, but is always the best. 

    Good things come to those who wait. Patience still is and always has been a virtue. 
    edited October 21 danoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 42
    Wesley HilliardWesley Hilliard Posts: 260member, administrator, moderator, editor
    Still waiting for someone to explain *how* Apple is behind in AI.
    delreyjonesdewme9secondkox2tmaywilliamlondon
  • Reply 30 of 42
    Pioneers get the arrows; settlers get the land. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 42
    Still waiting for someone to explain *how* Apple is behind in AI.
    If I’m not mistaken, Nvidia are the only ones to have earned any meaningful profit from AI.  It’s easy to imagine Apple offering AI as a subscription service and thereby become the first profitable AI company after Nvidia.
    9secondkox2tmaywilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 42
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,164member
    avon b7 said:

    And Apple has put itself into its current position by doing things like going through the entirety of 2023 without updating the iPad! 

    Hmmm... let's see.... which "current position" would that be?

    Stock price at an all-time high? Check.

    Share price almost doubled since Jan 2023? Check.

    Most valuable company by market cap in the entire history of companies? Check.

    Approaching first-ever $4 trillion dollar valuation? Check.

    World's Most Admired Company 17 years in a row and counting? Check. 

    See the kind of bad things that happen when you don't update the iPad for all of 2023! It's a disaster!
    edited October 21 delreyjonesdewme9secondkox2tmaywilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 42
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,164member
    Pema said:
    we shall see. 
    1) Apple Car
    2) Apple Vision Pro
    3) iPhone 16

    Apple needs a few hits to help us forget the duds. 
    So which part of Apple Car, a fantasy product that only exists in your mind, are you having the hardest time forgetting? Me, I love the fact that Cook invested in research, saw there was no profitable way forward for an actual product, and shut down the project. That's the kind of smart leadership that has allowed him to create the most successful Apple that has ever existed by all relevant metrics. 

    Apple Vision Pro was first delivered to users just 36 weeks ago. Meta is STILL losing $1 billion a month on Quest after 10 years of trying to make it successful. Now THAT'S a dud. Come back in 10 years and we can talk about Vision Pro.

    iPhone 16: It's the same story every year. A month or so after the new iPhone drops, the Apple-is-doomed crowd is out saying that sales are a disaster. Yawn. Maybe someday it'll be true, right? So how are investors feeling about iPhone 16? You know, the people who actually put their money behind their researched opinions and don't just pop off as the peanut gallery on a message board. Well, investors have bid up Apple's share price to its current all-time high since the iPhone 16 launched. This year will be more of what it always is as we learn that iPhone 16 sales are doing just fine. 
    delreyjonesdewmetmaywilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 42
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,483member
    charlesn said:
    Pema said:
    we shall see. 
    1) Apple Car
    2) Apple Vision Pro
    3) iPhone 16

    Apple needs a few hits to help us forget the duds. 
    So which part of Apple Car, a fantasy product that only exists in your mind, are you having the hardest time forgetting? Me, I love the fact that Cook invested in research, saw there was no profitable way forward for an actual product, and shut down the project. That's the kind of smart leadership that has allowed him to create the most successful Apple that has ever existed by all relevant metrics. 

    Apple Vision Pro was first delivered to users just 36 weeks ago. Meta is STILL losing $1 billion a month on Quest after 10 years of trying to make it successful. Now THAT'S a dud. Come back in 10 years and we can talk about Vision Pro.

    iPhone 16: It's the same story every year. A month or so after the new iPhone drops, the Apple-is-doomed crowd is out saying that sales are a disaster. Yawn. Maybe someday it'll be true, right? So how are investors feeling about iPhone 16? You know, the people who actually put their money behind their researched opinions and don't just pop off as the peanut gallery on a message board. Well, investors have bid up Apple's share price to its current all-time high since the iPhone 16 launched. This year will be more of what it always is as we learn that iPhone 16 sales are doing just fine. 
    Tim was asked about Vision Pro in the article, which isn’t widely requoted by the Apple focused sites unless they spin it as a failure even though he clearly says it did the intended job.

    "At $3,500, it's not a mass-market product," said Cook. "Right now, it's an early-adopter product. People who want to have tomorrow's technology today—that's who it's for. Fortunately, there's enough people who are in that camp that it's exciting."
    delreyjonestmaywilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 42
    Still waiting for someone to explain *how* Apple is behind in AI.
    Right?

    pretty sure they are referring to the generative stuff. But that’s only because the IP thieves had to go and ruin the fun for everyone. Not Apple’s style. 
    delreyjonestmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 42
    Still waiting for someone to explain *how* Apple is behind in AI.
    If I’m not mistaken, Nvidia are the only ones to have earned any meaningful profit from AI.  It’s easy to imagine Apple offering AI as a subscription service and thereby become the first profitable AI company after Nvidia.
    I don’t think that’s apples style. Apple sells full products. When ms was charging for windows upgrades, apple just made  is upgrades part of owning a Mac. Pretty sure they’ll do that with AI. OTHERWISE the Mac experience will feel fragmented like the windows +/- Copilot experience. Lame. 

    Executed properly, it will be another apple differentiator and sell more devices. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 42
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,338member

    Oh AppleInsider, you have a responsibility to publish factual details. If you don't understand a topic, please refrain from posting anything.

    "On the one hand, Apple has actually been doing AI under the name Machine Learning for at least a decade, but on the other, Apple doesn't look to be first."

    You do understand that Machine Learning is a SUBSET of the overarching Artificial Intelligence suite of technologies, right?  It's not just an alternative name for AI. These terms are not interchangeable.

    What we are seeing coming to market right now is closer to real AI, but as Apple pointed out last week, it is still very flawed. It's a segment of AI called "Generative AI" where mass amounts of learned knowledge are referenced in order to "generate" a response on-the-fly. Siri has not been using Generative AI, but has been using extensive amounts of Machine Learning.

    This is why "Apple Intelligence" is a genius name, because it is a vastly more intelligent suite of tools, but it's not (yet) true "artificial" intelligence. We are still a decade away from true artificial intelligence. I hope I'm wrong about that, though. What we have right now is not actual intelligence, since traits like curiosity are not yet being exhibited. 


    williamlondon
  • Reply 38 of 42
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,164member
    Still waiting for someone to explain *how* Apple is behind in AI.
    If I’m not mistaken, Nvidia are the only ones to have earned any meaningful profit from AI.  It’s easy to imagine Apple offering AI as a subscription service and thereby become the first profitable AI company after Nvidia.
    You are mistaken. AMD, TSMC and others involved in the design (like NVDA) and/or manufacture of AI chips are doing quite well and are profitable. 
    delreyjones
  • Reply 39 of 42
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,023member
    charlesn said:
    avon b7 said:

    And Apple has put itself into its current position by doing things like going through the entirety of 2023 without updating the iPad! 

    Hmmm... let's see.... which "current position" would that be?

    Stock price at an all-time high? Check.

    Share price almost doubled since Jan 2023? Check.

    Most valuable company by market cap in the entire history of companies? Check.

    Approaching first-ever $4 trillion dollar valuation? Check.

    World's Most Admired Company 17 years in a row and counting? Check. 

    See the kind of bad things that happen when you don't update the iPad for all of 2023! It's a disaster!

    All of which has no relevance to what is being offered to consumers.

    The current position is that Apple is slacking in some areas and playing catch up. 

    This is nothing new. 

    Going a year without updating the iPad and expecting consumers to make do with old technology at the original prices is just a prime example. 

    Apple absolutely had to update the line at the start of 2024 because competing products were making its offerings look long in the tooth. Especially in China, one of Apple's largest markets.


    https://technode.com/2024/02/22/huawei-overtakes-apple-in-chinas-q4-2023-tablet-market/


    So Apple updated but the new product did not really offer too much that was new with regards to the competition.


    Let me ask you. Are you aware of what the competition is offering?


    What about wearables? Another so-so upgrade from Apple this year.


    https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20240927PD204/huawei-wearable-market-samsung-apple.html#:~:text=China's Huawei Technologies has overtaken,smartphone business.....


    What about iOS (implementing more and more ideas from Android/HarmonyOS every year)


    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/huaweis-harmonyos-unseats-apples-ios-093000781.html


    Your post was investor, not consumer related, but from a purely investor related perspective, what do you think about Apple's upgrades in its second biggest market?


    Thats its current position.


    My opinion is clear. The current upgrades didn't hit the mark.


    Tim Cook admitting Apple is behind on AI is fine. Having to spend a couple of years talking up a product until it ships is fine.


    As Crimson Glory might say, 'When the nightmares ensue, all that you can do is paint your picture a brighter shade of blue'. Perhaps that is how you see it. The problem right now is that Apple has been underdelivering - to consumers . Or to put it a different way, it could and should be doing more.


    edited October 22
  • Reply 40 of 42
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,164member
    avon b7 said:
    Your post was investor, not consumer related, but from a purely investor related perspective, what do you think about Apple's upgrades in its second biggest market?
    Let me explain how the stock market works because you clearly don't get it. Apple's share price and valuation IS where it is because it delivers/exceeds on revenue and profits quarter after quarter, year after year. And do you know how it does that? SALES of its products. And do you understand who is buying those products? Consumers. You do realize that Apple is a consumer technology company, right? The only reason Apple has achieved and held the largest valuation in the history of companies is because consumers keep buying its products. Investor interest in Apple is inextricably tied and in relationship to consumers, period. At the same time you claim Apple is under-delivering on its products--which, by the way, is a claim as old as Apple itself, so get in line--consumers are the ones who allow Apple to keep delivering on its revenue and profit targets to Wall Street by buying its products and services. Let me put this in perspective: there are only eight nations in the world right now with an annual GDP that's as big as Apple's valuation. And it's eight, only if you count the European Union as one economy. Now GDP and market cap are surely not the same thing, but it does give a sense of the enormity of Apple's value. 

    But hey; you are absolutely entitled to your opinion. If you think Apple's upgrades didn't hit the mark, then they didn't... for YOU. So, easy enough, don't buy them. Problem solved! But you are not representative of how consumers, en masse, see Apple products--and every quarterly report proves that. You're part of a tiny niche in the technosphere echo chamber that has been there saying the same things since Apple was birthed as a company. No one cares except that niche.  

    You asked how I felt about upgrades in Apple's second largest market, China. Reports are that iPhone sales in China since the 16 launch are up 20% YOY. The quarter that Apple will report in about a week only includes a week of the new iPhone, so it will be difficult to read the tea leaves unless more is said about how sales are going on the conference call. We shall see soon enough. More importantly, though, your question about upgrades is the wrong question to be asking. Consumers give Apple a report card every quarter that allows anyone to judge how Apple, overall, is doing as a company with consumers. ("A" is the answer, by the way.) And THAT is the only grade that matters. But feel free to stay obsessively focused on whether Apple is delivering 120mhz displays to its mass market devices. 
    edited October 22 williamlondondanoxwatto_cobra
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