It sounds over the top when we’re talking about iPhones. Very “First World Problems” kind of thing. But by fall it will be hitting things like food. Do you ever buy grapes or strawberries in the winter? They come from overseas. Clothing? Unless you get your stuff hand made by a local tailor what you get comes from overseas. Plan on decorating for Christmas? Giving small gifts? Guess what…
So either a lot of stuff won’t be available at all, or will be but at hugely inflated prices. Meanwhile people in China will be working to make stuff for the rest of the world. It won’t impact them at all.
The economy is crashing. Ports are empty. Truck drivers have nothing to transport. Shelves will soon be empty of key goods. The dollar is dropping. Jobs are being lost. People aren't buying anything. There's no flow into the treasury. Our national debt is going up as a result of these tariffs as Americans do without. The global trade continues with the US removed unabated. We're the only ones harmed by this action. No one is negotiating anything.
Ok Xed and 9secondkox2. You both clearly disagree on a fundamental level and keep turning threads into shouting matches and insults. Report posts you believe need to be addressed by mods, but refrain from responding to eachother for a while. This isn't productive. If someone believes a lie, you're not going to convince them otherwise in an internet forum. This isn't a place to convince anyone of anything anyway. Discuss the topic, share what you think, disagree even, but don't waste your breath trying to change people's minds on such a divisive topic.
People that ignore reality will ignore evidence, no matter how intelligently and calmly it is presented.
Ok Xed and 9secondkox2. You both clearly disagree on a fundamental level and keep turning threads into shouting matches and insults. Report posts you believe need to be addressed by mods, but refrain from responding to eachother for a while. This isn't productive. If someone believes a lie, you're not going to convince them otherwise in an internet forum. This isn't a place to convince anyone of anything anyway. Discuss the topic, share what you think, disagree even, but don't waste your breath trying to change people's minds on such a divisive topic.
People that ignore reality will ignore evidence, no matter how intelligently and calmly it is presented.
Understood. I have put him on ignore going forward.
Ok Xed and 9secondkox2. You both clearly disagree on a fundamental level and keep turning threads into shouting matches and insults. Report posts you believe need to be addressed by mods, but refrain from responding to eachother for a while. This isn't productive. If someone believes a lie, you're not going to convince them otherwise in an internet forum. This isn't a place to convince anyone of anything anyway. Discuss the topic, share what you think, disagree even, but don't waste your breath trying to change people's minds on such a divisive topic.
People that ignore reality will ignore evidence, no matter how intelligently and calmly it is presented.
Wow.
I never insulted.
Also, there was a ton of educational value in my post as most here don’t understand what reciprocal means. Or even what tarriffs mean. You can cut out the parts where you think I was insulting. But no need to delete the informative parts.
Ok Xed and 9secondkox2. You both clearly disagree on a fundamental level and keep turning threads into shouting matches and insults. Report posts you believe need to be addressed by mods, but refrain from responding to eachother for a while. This isn't productive. If someone believes a lie, you're not going to convince them otherwise in an internet forum. This isn't a place to convince anyone of anything anyway. Discuss the topic, share what you think, disagree even, but don't waste your breath trying to change people's minds on such a divisive topic.
People that ignore reality will ignore evidence, no matter how intelligently and calmly it is presented.
Wow.
I never insulted.
Also, there was a ton of educational value in my post as most here don’t understand what reciprocal means. Or even what tarriffs mean. You can cut out the parts where you think I was insulting. But no need to delete the informative parts.
Believe it or not, you don't have to directly say an insult to be insulting. "Mental gymnastics" and other dismissive phrases are an example. But that's not the point, many of the posts I deleted in that thread were so far off topic, they didn't belong here.
Everyone knows what reciprocal means. And posting the output of a Google AI summary isn't helpful or informational. Sorry.
As I've warned you in particular many times before, discuss, disagree, but stop trying to convince. If you disagree, which you will with many people, then accept that and move on. Making threads into contests to see who can say the most unsourced things on a topic helps no one. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I have to delete a lot of comments from people that are triggered by your attitude and comments.
Posting things that are deliberately divisive in order to cause an argument and drive others to be angry with you is against the forum rules. Stick to the topic, say if you disagree and explain why, but avoid calling everyone else diseased with TDS in the process. Thanks.
The economy is crashing. Ports are empty. Truck drivers have nothing to transport. Shelves will soon be empty of key goods. The dollar is dropping. Jobs are being lost. People aren't buying anything. There's no flow into the treasury. Our national debt is going up as a result of these tariffs as Americans do without. The global trade continues with the US removed unabated. We're the only ones harmed by this action. No one is negotiating anything.
So yeah, great plan all around so far.
Meanwhile China is removing some tarriffs snd msking exemptions.
Like I said before, it’s too early. Less knee jerk reactions and more balanced analysis before we see the ultimate results.
Nobody like a fight. But sometimes they’re necessary. And when you fight, you don’t do so just to fight. It’s to win. So far, we are seeing other countries wilting.
The economy is crashing. Ports are empty. Truck drivers have nothing to transport. Shelves will soon be empty of key goods. The dollar is dropping. Jobs are being lost. People aren't buying anything. There's no flow into the treasury. Our national debt is going up as a result of these tariffs as Americans do without. The global trade continues with the US removed unabated. We're the only ones harmed by this action. No one is negotiating anything.
So yeah, great plan all around so far.
Meanwhile China is removing some tarriffs snd msking exemptions.
Like I said before, it’s too early. Less knee jerk reactions and more balanced analysis before we see the ultimate results.
Nobody like a fight. But sometimes they’re necessary. And when you fight, you don’t do so just to fight. It’s to win. So far, we are seeing other countries wilting.
The economy is crashing. Ports are empty. Truck drivers have nothing to transport. Shelves will soon be empty of key goods. The dollar is dropping. Jobs are being lost. People aren't buying anything. There's no flow into the treasury. Our national debt is going up as a result of these tariffs as Americans do without. The global trade continues with the US removed unabated. We're the only ones harmed by this action. No one is negotiating anything.
So yeah, great plan all around so far.
Meanwhile China is removing some tarriffs snd msking exemptions.
Like I said before, it’s too early. Less knee jerk reactions and more balanced analysis before we see the ultimate results.
Nobody like a fight. But sometimes they’re necessary. And when you fight, you don’t do so just to fight. It’s to win. So far, we are seeing other countries wilting.
We'll see what happens.
That’s all I’m saying. Just wait and see. As much as one side wants to believe trump is an evil bogeyman who can only do wrong, and the other side sees only positive qualities, reality will be what it will be.
China is already slowing export shipments and thst means less sales and less money going to China. They’ll feel it. That’s more money staying in America. Will it result in actual essentials not being available? It’s an interesting question since we don’t get everything from China. But posdible. It’s also posdible China silently shapes up (though not quite admitting so publicly) and everyone benefits. The other option is other countries and even American itself picks up the slack and a new global economy emerges. There are a number of ways it can go.
Hello from Canada. I used to buy things on amazon.com and get my Apple devices from the Apple Store in Buffalo. Now I am shopping directly from China, on Temu and Aliexpress. I expect I will get the iPhone 17 from the Apple.ca website or the store in Toronto, from China to my door. Yes we have had our disagreements with China - the Huawei fiasco, but China has already made it known that they want to "improve" trade relations with Canada. We don't like China's record on human rights but I am shocked by the daily news from the USA. My work is very isolated from economic downturns but I worry about my US friends. Maybe some manufacturing will come back to the USA but it will be expensive and probably fuel inflation but don't worry what seems to be an impending recession will counter balance that I suppose. But who will buy those newly made in USA goods? Will US exports simply evaporate? I feel like the friendship between us has evaporated, no matter how many Americans apologize to me about what had happened.
The “wait and see” approach is goofy. Some things are in fact knowable. You don’t push a car over a cliff so you can “wait and see” if it will hit the bottom. It’s going to hit the bottom. Similarly, you jump to a trade war to address (insert reason of the week for tariffs). And if anyone needs any further proof that the man leading this charge doesn’t have any clue what he is doing then look no further than his claim that he had made trade deals with 200 countries. There aren’t two hundred countries in the world. The sitting president of the United States doesn’t even know how many countries there are or how many countries there are, how many he has made “deals” with or how many he has placed tariffs on. Let that sink in.
And now it’s illegal to post a Google ai summery in support of dioctionary definitions? Serious? What is going on here?
Surely everyone with an ounce of commonsense knows that Google AI summaries are incorrect or include half-truths much of the time, so they’re hardly something to be relied upon in a sane adult discussion.
Although I’m 100% against the tariffs because they are ignoring the value proposition that free trade helps foster, I’m at the point now where I’m waiting to see what actually will happen rather than speculating about what might happen.
I firmly believe that in America, especially during “peaceful“ times, that capitalism always trumps nationalism and idealism. As the bottom line impacts of the tariffs and isolationism start to become apparent there will be greater pressure from the elite to back off the measures that hurt their bottom line. We’re already seeing it happening.
It’s almost always about money and power. Those who have power also have the money. Forget about Musk being the richest person on the planet. Putin is clearly richer than Musk, but he’s not going to flaunt it like Musk does.
A lot of what’s happening now is driven by those in power and their elite buddies trying to acquire even more wealth. The attacks on culture, immigration, intellectualism, acceptance of alternative lifestyles, and liberal democracy in general are actually cheap and soft targets. That rhetoric gets votes from an unfortunately large percentage of voters. Those votes secure the positions of the people in power who own an obscenely disproportionate share of the wealth compared to the other 99.9 percent of Americans.
When policies and executive actions by an unstable leader inflict harm on the elites, actions will be taken to stop their bleeding. If we’re lucky we may also benefit in some smaller ways by relieving them from their disproportionately tiny wounds.
The economy is crashing. Ports are empty. Truck drivers have nothing to transport. Shelves will soon be empty of key goods. The dollar is dropping. Jobs are being lost. People aren't buying anything. There's no flow into the treasury. Our national debt is going up as a result of these tariffs as Americans do without. The global trade continues with the US removed unabated. We're the only ones harmed by this action. No one is negotiating anything.
So yeah, great plan all around so far.
Meanwhile China is removing some tarriffs snd msking exemptions.
Like I said before, it’s too early. Less knee jerk reactions and more balanced analysis before we see the ultimate results.
Nobody like a fight. But sometimes they’re necessary. And when you fight, you don’t do so just to fight. It’s to win. So far, we are seeing other countries wilting.
We'll see what happens.
That’s all I’m saying. Just wait and see. As much as one side wants to believe trump is an evil bogeyman who can only do wrong, and the other side sees only positive qualities, reality will be what it will be.
China is already slowing export shipments and thst means less sales and less money going to China. They’ll feel it. That’s more money staying in America. Will it result in actual essentials not being available? It’s an interesting question since we don’t get everything from China. But posdible. It’s also posdible China silently shapes up (though not quite admitting so publicly) and everyone benefits. The other option is other countries and even American itself picks up the slack and a new global economy emerges. There are a number of ways it can go.
But ultimately time will tell.
As I’ve said before, when someone is setting your house on fire, “wait and see” is not a viable response.
I am not reflexively objecting to the tariffs because I don’t like Donald Trump. I am objecting because it is so clearly a bad idea that will do serious damage to our economy. I am objecting because it’s clear there is no plan. I am objecting because it’s clear that the president and his administration don’t understand even the basics of what they’re tinkering with, and they are lying to the public about it as they tinker.
They have conflated others’ tariffs with our trade deficits. They have conflated trade deficits with the federal deficit. They announced worldwide tariffs on a list of countries, some of which are not countries, some of which are uninhabited, some of which don’t have tariffs on us, some of which we don’t have a trade deficit with, etc. They announced large tariffs on Canada and Mexico first, two of our largest and closest trading partners. The worldwide tariffs are applied indiscriminately on friends and foes alike, undermining longstanding alliances. They have cited China as the primary target of the trade war, while destroying any leverage we might have had against China, by launching tariffs against all of our allies. They had no understanding of how tariffs would impact American companies like Apple or auto manufacturers, so they announced carve-outs and exemptions, but then insisted they hadn’t, or that they’re only temporary. They had no understanding of how launching a trade war in the spring will probably cause the greatest possible damage to the agricultural sector. They have no understanding that tariffs won’t just increase prices for US consumers, but will result in cancelled orders, shortages and empty shelves, from now, all the way through the economically critical holiday season. They are unaware that the US lacks the capacity or lead time to ramp up and replace production of halted imports. They argue that increased tariffs will protect US manufacturing, but insist that they are doing deals that will eliminate the tariffs. The president announced that they have more deals in progress than there are countries. The president announced he is talking with Xi Jinping, yet China says there have been no calls or conversations.
The list goes on. The incompetence and malfeasance is real and it is obvious.
So no, I am not inclined to “wait and see” if this is all just three-dimensional chess and master statecraft. It is glaringly obvious that it is not.
Just to add to the list, as I was writing this, bulletins popped up that the economy contracted last quarter, amid fears of recession.
The economy is crashing. Ports are empty. Truck drivers have nothing to transport. Shelves will soon be empty of key goods. The dollar is dropping. Jobs are being lost. People aren't buying anything. There's no flow into the treasury. Our national debt is going up as a result of these tariffs as Americans do without. The global trade continues with the US removed unabated. We're the only ones harmed by this action. No one is negotiating anything.
So yeah, great plan all around so far.
Meanwhile China is removing some tarriffs snd msking exemptions.
Like I said before, it’s too early. Less knee jerk reactions and more balanced analysis before we see the ultimate results.
Nobody like a fight. But sometimes they’re necessary. And when you fight, you don’t do so just to fight. It’s to win. So far, we are seeing other countries wilting.
We'll see what happens.
That’s all I’m saying. Just wait and see. As much as one side wants to believe trump is an evil bogeyman who can only do wrong, and the other side sees only positive qualities, reality will be what it will be.
China is already slowing export shipments and thst means less sales and less money going to China. They’ll feel it. That’s more money staying in America. Will it result in actual essentials not being available? It’s an interesting question since we don’t get everything from China. But posdible. It’s also posdible China silently shapes up (though not quite admitting so publicly) and everyone benefits. The other option is other countries and even American itself picks up the slack and a new global economy emerges. There are a number of ways it can go.
But ultimately time will tell.
As I’ve said before, when someone is setting your house on fire, “wait and see” is not a viable response.
I am not reflexively objecting to the tariffs because I don’t like Donald Trump. I am objecting because it is so clearly a bad idea that will do serious damage to our economy. I am objecting because it’s clear there is no plan. I am objecting because it’s clear that the president and his administration don’t understand even the basics of what they’re tinkering with, and they are lying to the public about it as they tinker.
They have conflated others’ tariffs with our trade deficits. They have conflated trade deficits with the federal deficit. They announced worldwide tariffs on a list of countries, some of which are not countries, some of which are uninhabited, some of which don’t have tariffs on us, some of which we don’t have a trade deficit with, etc. They announced large tariffs on Canada and Mexico first, two of our largest and closest trading partners. The worldwide tariffs are applied indiscriminately on friends and foes alike, undermining longstanding alliances. They have cited China as the primary target of the trade war, while destroying any leverage we might have had against China, by launching tariffs against all of our allies. They had no understanding of how tariffs would impact American companies like Apple or auto manufacturers, so they announced carve-outs and exemptions, but then insisted they hadn’t, or that they’re only temporary. They had no understanding of how launching a trade war in the spring will probably cause the greatest possible damage to the agricultural sector. They have no understanding that tariffs won’t just increase prices for US consumers, but will result in cancelled orders, shortages and empty shelves, from now, all the way through the economically critical holiday season. They are unaware that the US lacks the capacity or lead time to ramp up and replace production of halted imports. They argue that increased tariffs will protect US manufacturing, but insist that they are doing deals that will eliminate the tariffs. The president announced that they have more deals in progress than there are countries. The president announced he is talking with Xi Jinping, yet China says there have been no calls or conversations.
The list goes on. The incompetence and malfeasance is real and it is obvious.
So no, I am not inclined to “wait and see” if this is all just three-dimensional chess and master statecraft. It is glaringly obvious that it is not.
Just to add to the list, as I was writing this, bulletins popped up that the economy contracted last quarter, amid fears of recession.
So no, we don’t have time to wait and see.
It's reported that Trump has doubled his net worth this year. Nothing suspicious there. And that $2 trillion that Musk said DOGE would save was only $0.066 trillion. How much did Musk make in the last 100 days? How about contracts set for companies he profits from? What about Trump's cronies? How much damage has this done to the people's jobs and projects were canceled without reason? These people are all about cancel culture. The short and long term affects of this damage has yet to be seen, but it's clear there is no upside to this stupidity.
The economy is crashing. Ports are empty. Truck drivers have nothing to transport. Shelves will soon be empty of key goods. The dollar is dropping. Jobs are being lost. People aren't buying anything. There's no flow into the treasury. Our national debt is going up as a result of these tariffs as Americans do without. The global trade continues with the US removed unabated. We're the only ones harmed by this action. No one is negotiating anything.
So yeah, great plan all around so far.
Meanwhile China is removing some tarriffs snd msking exemptions.
Like I said before, it’s too early. Less knee jerk reactions and more balanced analysis before we see the ultimate results.
Nobody like a fight. But sometimes they’re necessary. And when you fight, you don’t do so just to fight. It’s to win. So far, we are seeing other countries wilting.
We'll see what happens.
That’s all I’m saying. Just wait and see. As much as one side wants to believe trump is an evil bogeyman who can only do wrong, and the other side sees only positive qualities, reality will be what it will be.
Your comment was perfectly timed as we had to wait less than 24 hours. GDP numbers were announced today for the first quarter of the year and as such they are first indication of the impact of the tariffs. GDP dropped for the first time in years and our trade deficit grew. Literally the opposite of what Trump and the pro-tariff crowd promised. Trump is, per usual, blaming the former president and claiming the numbers were worse under Biden. So pretty much what the anti-tariff crowd has been saying. They won't work, they will crash the economy and Trump will simply lie about it like he does everything else.
In 2021 one (1) ship stopped all shipping between Asia and Europe for 6 days. It took 10x that time to get trade back. Tariffs have been increased since Feb 4th and the extremely high tariffs since April 9th. 22 days but 10x the duration to restore service. It doesn't help much that exports from China increased in March as it will only cover 3 days.
Factories are closing down making it even more difficult to return. US consumers are getting taxed twice reducing their spending power while margins and stocks are crashing. But inventory could keep shelves looking good for 30-100 days. Recovering from it will take much longer. The 2008 "Great Recession" caused 8-9 years of increased unemployment. It took more than a year to peak.
Deleted, yet again, a post commenting on moderation decisions. It's not about what you think is true or real. Ranting continuously in every thread that breaths the words "Donald Trump" about how right, cool, and strong he is is not only disruptive, it just doesn't reflect reality. It would be like if we allowed a person to go into every thread and say Australia doesn't actually exist because it couldn't fit on a flat earth.
This isn't some leftist ideal or derangement syndrome, it is simple provable fact. Trump is a disruptive, weird, chaotic presence in the White House and pretending otherwise is just odd, even if you like the guy.
Im not telling this individual to never post here again. We just want these conversations to be grounded in reality. Spreading misinformation and worshiping the collapse of the United States isn't something that will ever be tolerated. If you want to dispute people on this matter, share actual, provable datapoints instead of repeating "wait and see." This isn't religion, we aren't making decisions based on faith in your deity. The numbers go down, and until they go up, things are pretty bad out there. People can't afford to "wait and see."
The reality is that the economy is down for the first time in 3 years. People are being abducted in the streets by federal agents wearing plain clothes. Houses of innocents are being raided. Research programs responsible for finding treatments to deadly diseases are being shut down. Ports are emptying. Travel has been decimated. Truckers are about to lose their jobs. And there are many more problems beyond that. People have a right to be scared.
So yes, suggesting otherwise is disruptive and causes threads to derail into a debate over what is real and what is not. And I only see two or three accounts in our forums insisting that falsehoods are true.
We're not banning people for liking Trump and we encourage differing opinions. Go ahead and like the guy even. Just don't say things about Trump and his administration that are blatantly untrue and easily proved wrong. Why spread lies?
It's easy to spot really. A political statement, which is allowed by our rules is something like "I like tariffs" or "Apple should build iPhones in America." Misinformation is like "Trump is a strong leader and America has never been better." Or "The market is only down because of reactionary leftists." See the difference? One is an opinion based on policy while the other is weird North Korea style propaganda that is easily proven to be incorrect.
If you can't tell the difference, don't post on political topics! Find a different forum to share that misinformation.
I doubt anyone will even see this. I just needed to vent on the subject. These are trying times and I don't want to see our forums filled with arguments over what is real and what is not. Things are already crazy enough.
The economy is crashing. Ports are empty. Truck drivers have nothing to transport. Shelves will soon be empty of key goods. The dollar is dropping. Jobs are being lost. People aren't buying anything. There's no flow into the treasury. Our national debt is going up as a result of these tariffs as Americans do without. The global trade continues with the US removed unabated. We're the only ones harmed by this action. No one is negotiating anything.
So yeah, great plan all around so far.
Meanwhile China is removing some tarriffs snd msking exemptions.
Like I said before, it’s too early. Less knee jerk reactions and more balanced analysis before we see the ultimate results.
Nobody like a fight. But sometimes they’re necessary. And when you fight, you don’t do so just to fight. It’s to win. So far, we are seeing other countries wilting.
We'll see what happens.
That’s all I’m saying. Just wait and see. As much as one side wants to believe trump is an evil bogeyman who can only do wrong, and the other side sees only positive qualities, reality will be what it will be.
China is already slowing export shipments and thst means less sales and less money going to China. They’ll feel it. That’s more money staying in America. Will it result in actual essentials not being available? It’s an interesting question since we don’t get everything from China. But posdible. It’s also posdible China silently shapes up (though not quite admitting so publicly) and everyone benefits. The other option is other countries and even American itself picks up the slack and a new global economy emerges. There are a number of ways it can go.
But ultimately time will tell.
As I’ve said before, when someone is setting your house on fire, “wait and see” is not a viable response.
I am not reflexively objecting to the tariffs because I don’t like Donald Trump. I am objecting because it is so clearly a bad idea that will do serious damage to our economy..
People forget that this experiment was tried eight years ago. At the start of Trump’s first term he started a trade war with China and by every measure the US lost. China came out solid financially with more allies, and the US with less of both. Repeating the experiment fits Einstein’s definition of insanity.
Comments
So either a lot of stuff won’t be available at all, or will be but at hugely inflated prices. Meanwhile people in China will be working to make stuff for the rest of the world. It won’t impact them at all.
So yeah, great plan all around so far.
People that ignore reality will ignore evidence, no matter how intelligently and calmly it is presented.
As I've warned you in particular many times before, discuss, disagree, but stop trying to convince. If you disagree, which you will with many people, then accept that and move on. Making threads into contests to see who can say the most unsourced things on a topic helps no one. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I have to delete a lot of comments from people that are triggered by your attitude and comments.
Posting things that are deliberately divisive in order to cause an argument and drive others to be angry with you is against the forum rules. Stick to the topic, say if you disagree and explain why, but avoid calling everyone else diseased with TDS in the process. Thanks.
Please, leave it at that.
I used to buy things on amazon.com and get my Apple devices from the Apple Store in Buffalo.
Now I am shopping directly from China, on Temu and Aliexpress.
I expect I will get the iPhone 17 from the Apple.ca website or the store in Toronto, from China to my door.
Yes we have had our disagreements with China - the Huawei fiasco, but China has already made it known that they want to "improve" trade relations with Canada.
We don't like China's record on human rights but I am shocked by the daily news from the USA.
My work is very isolated from economic downturns but I worry about my US friends.
Maybe some manufacturing will come back to the USA but it will be expensive and probably fuel inflation but don't worry what seems to be an impending recession will counter balance that I suppose. But who will buy those newly made in USA goods?
Will US exports simply evaporate?
I feel like the friendship between us has evaporated, no matter how many Americans apologize to me about what had happened.
Surely everyone with an ounce of commonsense knows that Google AI summaries are incorrect or include half-truths much of the time, so they’re hardly something to be relied upon in a sane adult discussion.
Factories are closing down making it even more difficult to return. US consumers are getting taxed twice reducing their spending power while margins and stocks are crashing. But inventory could keep shelves looking good for 30-100 days. Recovering from it will take much longer. The 2008 "Great Recession" caused 8-9 years of increased unemployment. It took more than a year to peak.
This isn't some leftist ideal or derangement syndrome, it is simple provable fact. Trump is a disruptive, weird, chaotic presence in the White House and pretending otherwise is just odd, even if you like the guy.
Im not telling this individual to never post here again. We just want these conversations to be grounded in reality. Spreading misinformation and worshiping the collapse of the United States isn't something that will ever be tolerated. If you want to dispute people on this matter, share actual, provable datapoints instead of repeating "wait and see." This isn't religion, we aren't making decisions based on faith in your deity. The numbers go down, and until they go up, things are pretty bad out there. People can't afford to "wait and see."
The reality is that the economy is down for the first time in 3 years. People are being abducted in the streets by federal agents wearing plain clothes. Houses of innocents are being raided. Research programs responsible for finding treatments to deadly diseases are being shut down. Ports are emptying. Travel has been decimated. Truckers are about to lose their jobs. And there are many more problems beyond that. People have a right to be scared.
So yes, suggesting otherwise is disruptive and causes threads to derail into a debate over what is real and what is not. And I only see two or three accounts in our forums insisting that falsehoods are true.
We're not banning people for liking Trump and we encourage differing opinions. Go ahead and like the guy even. Just don't say things about Trump and his administration that are blatantly untrue and easily proved wrong. Why spread lies?
I doubt anyone will even see this. I just needed to vent on the subject. These are trying times and I don't want to see our forums filled with arguments over what is real and what is not. Things are already crazy enough.