If we were somehow able to broadcast the human genome sequence to the SETI project---would it recognize it as a form of intelligence?
Edit: I completely misunderstood your post. Doh. Trying again:
SETI just looks for artificial signals. I don't think it matters what's IN the signal, just that it looks artificial. So whether the signal encodes the human genome or Howdy Doody reruns (or even Windows source code), SETI would mark it as potentially extraterrestrial. The "intelligence" comes from the assumption that any race capable of broadcasting a signal over a distance of light-years has intelligence.
But I don't think the universe is as random as some of us hope. There would be differences, but not "Star Trek-ish". Not all the smart aliens would stand on their hind legs and use their subspace telephone to call their neighboring solar-system?s Pizza Hut for aTargPizza, hold theGagh. The problem would be receiving the whole thing or large enough portions to do anything with it. Basically, DNA is made up of 4 elements. If the aliens (also having 4-element DNA) receives data with only 4 unique signals, they may put two and two together. Our scientists would.
The problem with SETI is that we are using human concepts to attempt to communicate with entities that are [alien, (if 'they' exist). Would 'they' use radio frequencies scanned by SETI? Would 'they' perceive the passage of time as we do, and communicate in that same time scale? Everything that we are, and we do, and we perceive may be irrelevant in our search for alien life. 'They' may already be here, and we don't know it, or recognize it. 'They' may not even be visible. We wouldn't know whether 'they' were 'earthly' or 'alien'. Will 'they' have sensory organs like ours, tuned to specific (narrow) frequency bands of visible light and audible sound in an earthlike atmosphere? We barely have ability to engage in realtime conversational communications with animal life already here on Earth, let alone alien life light years away.
The point is... aliens are alien, not human, to the point that if we saw one, we may not even know it was an alien, or even 'alive', according to 'life' as we know it. Certainly there is a possibility that anomalous radio signals from across the universe could be picked up (SETI has already had some weird stuff)... that's enough to justify the project.
Despite my skepticism, I think its wonderful work they are doing. The whole thing costs an annual budget of $135,000, thats enough to run the US military for 11 seconds. Or, looking at it another way, 7.5 years of SETI budget would purchase *one* long-range Tomahawk cruise missile at current prices (approx $1million each). Can't resist a political jab can I
(if 'they' exist). Would 'they' use radio frequencies scanned by SETI?
Actually, a lot of thought goes into choosing a signal. What travels best through space, what kinds of signals would others be looking for. I think we are detecting signals around 2.4 Ghz (the harmonic of water). I don't work at SETI or anything related to it, I just remember reading it somewhere.
But I don't think the universe is as random as some of us hope. There would be differences, but not "Star Trek-ish".
That's a fascinating issue, and one that I think dovetails on the evolution debate. Given a planet identical to earth, what would evolve? How similar would their intelligent life be to humans? And what kinds of variations in environments would produce differences?
I also bet things are not as random as we think, and I bet the differences wouldn't be quite as incredible as some sci-fi suggests.
Would other species evolve different senses that we don't have at all? I doubt it. Maybe they would see in different parts of the em spectrum, but I bet they would still see, hear, touch, smell and taste in basically the same way we do. But who knows, maybe I'm just committing the naturalistic fallacy (if that's the right fallacy).
I also bet things are not as random as we think, and I bet the differences wouldn't be quite as incredible as some sci-fi suggests.
I dunno...I wouldn't be surprised if some differences are much greater than even sci-fi suggests. We are our biochemistry - nucleic acids and proteins surrounded by lipids. Any being based on the same biochemistry will be basically recognizable, even if the details differ (like having more or fewer DNA bases, different size codons, odd peptides). Our senses evolved in order to perceive a world filled with biochemistry like ours. But DNA isn't the only information-carrying polymer you could imagine, and nothing says that you have to have proteins to make life. On a different world you might evolve from an entirely different chemistry. And who's to say you even need chemistry to make intelligence?
Past articles have included a memorable five-part series from numerous top scientists discussing the precise problems you're asking about... <dig throught the archives >
what consists of "intelligent" communication... would aliens recognize us as intelligent (at which point we'd need to bring in the late, great Carl Sagan, who supervised our first attempt at pan-galactic communication... Voyager Golden Record. Flash/HTML Site)
the film Contact (1997) starring Jodie Foster, was an attempt to bring Carl's Book "Contact" (better than the film, IMO) to wider audiences. Seti@Home has more than a million users worldwide, further broadening interest in finding alien signals.
Comments
Originally posted by ena
If we were somehow able to broadcast the human genome sequence to the SETI project---would it recognize it as a form of intelligence?
Edit: I completely misunderstood your post. Doh. Trying again:
SETI just looks for artificial signals. I don't think it matters what's IN the signal, just that it looks artificial. So whether the signal encodes the human genome or Howdy Doody reruns (or even Windows source code), SETI would mark it as potentially extraterrestrial. The "intelligence" comes from the assumption that any race capable of broadcasting a signal over a distance of light-years has intelligence.
Originally posted by Towel
(or even Windows source code)
NO NO NO!!! The piont is for the aliens to UNDERSTAND the signal. That just looks like random interference.
jk
The point is... aliens are alien, not human, to the point that if we saw one, we may not even know it was an alien, or even 'alive', according to 'life' as we know it. Certainly there is a possibility that anomalous radio signals from across the universe could be picked up (SETI has already had some weird stuff)... that's enough to justify the project.
Despite my skepticism, I think its wonderful work they are doing. The whole thing costs an annual budget of $135,000, thats enough to run the US military for 11 seconds. Or, looking at it another way, 7.5 years of SETI budget would purchase *one* long-range Tomahawk cruise missile at current prices (approx $1million each). Can't resist a political jab can I
http://www.newscientist.com/hottopic...enspotters.jsp
http://www.qsl.net/g3pho/mart10.htm
I really hope they find "something".
The below print out is reputed to have been the first and only SETI like contact we have ever had.
We live in intersting times !
Originally posted by sammi jo
(if 'they' exist). Would 'they' use radio frequencies scanned by SETI?
Actually, a lot of thought goes into choosing a signal. What travels best through space, what kinds of signals would others be looking for. I think we are detecting signals around 2.4 Ghz (the harmonic of water). I don't work at SETI or anything related to it, I just remember reading it somewhere.
Originally posted by Ebby
But I don't think the universe is as random as some of us hope. There would be differences, but not "Star Trek-ish".
That's a fascinating issue, and one that I think dovetails on the evolution debate. Given a planet identical to earth, what would evolve? How similar would their intelligent life be to humans? And what kinds of variations in environments would produce differences?
I also bet things are not as random as we think, and I bet the differences wouldn't be quite as incredible as some sci-fi suggests.
Would other species evolve different senses that we don't have at all? I doubt it. Maybe they would see in different parts of the em spectrum, but I bet they would still see, hear, touch, smell and taste in basically the same way we do. But who knows, maybe I'm just committing the naturalistic fallacy (if that's the right fallacy).
Originally posted by BRussell
I also bet things are not as random as we think, and I bet the differences wouldn't be quite as incredible as some sci-fi suggests.
I dunno...I wouldn't be surprised if some differences are much greater than even sci-fi suggests. We are our biochemistry - nucleic acids and proteins surrounded by lipids. Any being based on the same biochemistry will be basically recognizable, even if the details differ (like having more or fewer DNA bases, different size codons, odd peptides). Our senses evolved in order to perceive a world filled with biochemistry like ours. But DNA isn't the only information-carrying polymer you could imagine, and nothing says that you have to have proteins to make life. On a different world you might evolve from an entirely different chemistry. And who's to say you even need chemistry to make intelligence?
Originally posted by Towel
And who's to say you even need chemistry to make intelligence?
i would
Past articles have included a memorable five-part series from numerous top scientists discussing the precise problems you're asking about... <dig throught the archives >
what consists of "intelligent" communication... would aliens recognize us as intelligent (at which point we'd need to bring in the late, great Carl Sagan, who supervised our first attempt at pan-galactic communication... Voyager Golden Record. Flash/HTML Site)
the film Contact (1997) starring Jodie Foster, was an attempt to bring Carl's Book "Contact" (better than the film, IMO) to wider audiences. Seti@Home has more than a million users worldwide, further broadening interest in finding alien signals.