Apple Add-on for Games
Apple have a whole range of hardware and software to suit consumers needs in the computer industry, but what Apple lack in is covering a whole range of target markets avaliable.
I think that Apple haven't covered the games market, which is a big market. Apple could have an add-on for a Mac computer but also could appeal to all the other consumers that dont own an Apple. For the other consumers, Apple could a develop a game console type of product. what are your views?
I think that Apple haven't covered the games market, which is a big market. Apple could have an add-on for a Mac computer but also could appeal to all the other consumers that dont own an Apple. For the other consumers, Apple could a develop a game console type of product. what are your views?
Comments
From a total outsiders point of view:
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- The majority of the games are Win-First or Win-Only...
- Of the Win-Only... A fairly small group of Mac developer groups port the hottest ones under contract/agreement etc.
- Some ports happen quickly while other never make it or... make it so late to be a non-event.
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What would happen if Apple were to buy out/up these porting houses and put them all under one roof so to speak. Maybe even a spin-off ala Filemaker.
It might show the game developers of the world that Apple does matter and money can be made and at the same time be a central place to go when a Win-Only game developer wants to test the Mac waters.
Also having Apples 'backing' it would enable this new company to go out and contact those Win-Only developers to try and fourm partnerships.
At first glance this seems like something worthy of investigation.
Dave
[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
<strong>If Apple could set up a little company stafffed with Apple engineers, they could port ALL Windows games in much shorter periods of time than MacPlay or other stupid porting companies could.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And just what do you base this outlandish statement on? This just shows that you know nothing about what is involved, or the reasons why it takes time.
<strong>
And just what do you base this outlandish statement on? This just shows that you know nothing about what is involved, or the reasons why it takes time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe he works for a game company making a top selling title and ported the whole DirectX 8.0 title to MacOS in less than two days himself (just for fun). So he wonders why the others take that long.
DirectX.
I don't think Apple should drop OpenGL (hope the ew spec finally gets approved this year) But they could provide some kind of Mac DirectX support or translation-recompile thingamajiggy to help game translation easier, or even facilitate easier pressing of hybrid discs.
I think the mac-play outfits do a respectable job. Better for Apple to support them with technology that could be applied to other areas than take it on themselves.
Apple will never release a console, and especially never, any kind of 'add-on' for gaming. Unless they make a joystick.
The reason a lot of game companies don't get a Mac version out for months is that they don't even get started (whether its their own programmers starting, or a contractor) until the PC version has done well enough to minimize the game's financial risk (or even turn a profit). That's why we tend to get a-list titles only.
The cure for this is simple: There have to be more Mac users buying games. If the market is big enough, the games will come. The game companies know full well that concurrent development is cheaper than after-the-fact porting, that it results in a better product, and that it results in better sales because the game is still new when it's released on the Mac side. It's the up-front cost that's holding them back. When our market's big enough to make that risk worth taking, it'll start happening.
[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
<strong>There was something on this over at the macnn news page a little while back.
DirectX.
I don't think Apple should drop OpenGL (hope the ew spec finally gets approved this year) But they could provide some kind of Mac DirectX support or translation-recompile thingamajiggy to help game translation easier, or even facilitate easier pressing of hybrid discs.
I think the mac-play outfits do a respectable job. Better for Apple to support them with technology that could be applied to other areas than take it on themselves.
Apple will never release a console, and especially never, any kind of 'add-on' for gaming. Unless they make a joystick.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There is a lot more to bringing a game to market on a new platform than just banging the code across and getting a first version up and running. Its well known that the last 10% of a project takes 90% of the time... and experience shows that you pay a good chunk of that time on each and every platform. If you don't, you get crap. I think as Mac gamers we've had enough crap.
That DirectX emulator, by the way, is just a wrapper on top of Apple's OpenGL. Until Apple's OpenGL has all the DirectX capabilities games which use those capabilities cannot be easily brought across (and there are efficiency issues as well). Apple is also lagging in delivering proper input device support under MacOSX, among other things.
I know a fair few people who have macs. Perhaps one in three likes to game on their machines. (This excludes theose who will have a quick frag in the office after hours on the LAN to wind down for the day ...)
Trouble is, even most of those who do game on their macs only do so because they do not have a console or other games machine; or because they have online access to (pirate) rips of software.
It's a sad fact, but with mac games so badly sold here in the UK (some HMVs, PC World kinda, John Lewis to an extent, but your best bet is mailorder and that's not intuitive for 1st time buyers) i cannot see much justification for wanting parity with PC or console games releases. There is simply not the market, either for selling or buying the games.
I have been to regular Apple stores in California and it's a real joy to see to many mac games on the shelves in one place, but even then these stores are the exceptions rather than the rule. Most people who buy macs don't think first and foremost about gaming. It's an afterthought: they buy a Mac cos it helps them get online easily, or because they do design or video or audio work and they know a mac is best ...
It's a bonus to find good games for the Mac too, and it's even better to know they are generally popular PC titles which have justified being ported. That is normally a good sign, but often licencing politics come in between what is best for gamers and what is actually released (Half-Life anyone?
The status quo is just that for a reason: we have seen a steady incremental maturation of the mac games market over the last three years. I think there is still some room for growth, but esp. here in Europe, even with great Mac porting houses (props to Feral UK) it is not easy to sell the games; and without potential customers knowing what's out there, you can't sell product.
The type of games for mac says a lot about the audience .... a hella lot of RPG/RTS/sim games, some FPS-types, and virtually no sports. That's quite unlike the PC or console market, and shows how the mac games market reflects the mac userbase. More specialised, more geeky, less jock-like anyone? Hehe, mebbe that's contentious, mebbe not ... I'm a geek but I prefer to kick ass in an FPS to most games.
Apple Games Console: no way. Apple setting up some uber-crack squad of coders to port stuff: no way. Omni dabbled in it for a while when X came out but had to pull back as the market isn't that big. Oh, and I hope Apple would not be crude enough to try and poach many of the scarce mac-game-aware programmers out there from existing porting companies such as Westlake. Those coders are rare as hen's teeth compared to Direct X/console experienced folks. That would be crude, rude & cruel for Apple to try and do.
Its a very conservative thing to suggest, but mebbe Apple could just help sponsor a nice monthly glossy brochure (8pp) to have as a magazine insert and to lie about mac retail suppliers, stating whats new and cool in mac gaming. I know they have a page on the website, but if I had just bought a new iMac from PC World and the assistant had dropped a brochure on top of my box, I'd check it out. And if that brochure said I could order most of these, and lots of other cool mac stuff at the apple store uk online, i'd hook my mac into the wall socket and dial up there asap ....
What do you think? Too realistic? Too dull? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Edited for spelling .. damn fingers
[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: jobes ]</p>
<strong>The only thing that will bring timely game releases to the Mac is concurrent cross-platform development - whether in-house or by shipping Westlake a new build every week. Concurrent development doesn't add much to the total cost of the project, but it does add cost and trouble up front. This means that the game company in question will only do it if they're pretty sure the game will sell well on the Mac (exception: id, who develop for the Mac because "it's the right thing to do" and it keeps their platform-independent coding chops up).
The reason a lot of game companies don't get a Mac version out for months is that they don't even get started (whether its their own programmers starting, or a contractor) until the PC version has done well enough to minimize the game's financial risk (or even turn a profit). That's why we tend to get a-list titles only.
The cure for this is simple: There have to be more Mac users buying games. If the market is big enough, the games will come. The game companies know full well that concurrent development is cheaper than after-the-fact porting, that it results in a better product, and that it results in better sales because the game is still new when it's released on the Mac side. It's the up-front cost that's holding them back. When our market's big enough to make that risk worth taking, it'll start happening.</strong><hr></blockquote>
the market will only grow, if apple will make consumer computers whit wich you can play games
look at the consumer macs - there is no good hardware
the imac has a gf2 mx on the motherboard and no agp port to change it for a newer g. card...
if you want to play games on mac you have to buy an g4 tower and a g4 tower is too expensive for a (pc)gamer
ps OpenGL seems to be dying, at least from a gaming perspective. So many missing features.
<strong>the market will only grow, if apple will make consumer computers whit wich you can play games
look at the consumer macs - there is no good hardware
the imac has a gf2 mx on the motherboard and no agp port to change it for a newer g. card...
if you want to play games on mac you have to buy an g4 tower and a g4 tower is too expensive for a (pc)gamer</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, no, the iMac does fine. It's not a hardcore gaming rig, but since 90% of the gaming population isn't hardcore, that's irrelevant.
Of course it's not ideal for the task - it's a general purpose family computer, not a custom-built Alienware rig. But it does well enough. Not everyone requires 200FPS.
Most game companies try to target acceleration technology 2 or 3 generations old when possible, just because that means the game runs on more machines, which translates directly into more sales. Similarly, the machine targeted by all the Mac porting and development houses, at minimum, is the iMac (not the LCD iMac). Again, because that means the game runs on more machines, which means more sales. At the extreme, you have Ambrosia releasing EV:Nova, which runs well on very old hardware and thus has an enormous potential market.
<strong>
Apple will never release a console, and especially never, any kind of 'add-on' for gaming. Unless they make a joystick.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah. Revolutionary joystick: no buttons. (But clear platic though. Woohoo!)
Sorry...would that be considered a potshot?
I would love to see more racing game ports say NFS5. My AMD 1.4 with GeF3 will still stutter with 1200x1024x16 but my other G4DP533 with GeF3 at same resolution doesn't when running 4x4Evo2.
Oni is a good example.
Graphics and movement are superior to the PC (well at least to my PC). A few more games of this quality and I wouldn't even need my PC.
[ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: dobby ]</p>
Word is that there is an Apple version in development for HL2 in case they think that the market demands it. Hey, someone want to start a petition?
Was just a thought
As far as Apple making a game console...
... would be a bad move IMHO.
katchow