Are unions an anachronism ?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Just watched another red flag waving "solidarity...what do we want? when do we wannit " March...as it sauntered thru town..



The usual parade of megaphoned unionists & rebel ferals, lefties etc carrying images of Marx & Lenin..with words like " Resistance ".Down with Capitalism..lah de dah..ho hum...same old same old...



From my perspective, it all looks rather sad & the rhetoric is right out Dickensian London....

" We the Rank & File blah de blah...demand..blah de blah...."

They're always " demanding " never negotiating...



I've seen images of union protests like these all over the world...and they all bear the same hall marks of ossifying unionism....

Sure, unions are important in certain circumstances, but the anachronistic jargon & "class struggle" mentality drives people away in droves..with the net result being that union memberships are on a constant downward path.....

But still the Union bosses ( often marxists ) won't listen to the mums & dads of suburbia.......sheesh...when will they learn ?

Maybe the unions could do with Spin doctoring & PR....

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27
    aquafireaquafire Posts: 2,758member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by aquafire

    Just watched another red flag waving "solidarity...what do we want? when do we wannit " March...as it sauntered thru town..



    The usual parade of megaphoned unionists & rebel ferals, lefties etc carrying images of Marx & Lenin..with words like " Resistance ".Down with Capitalism..lah de dah..ho hum...same old same old...



    From my perspective, it all looks rather sad & the rhetoric is right out Dickensian London....

    " We the Rank & File blah de blah...demand..blah de blah...."

    They're always " demanding " never negotiating...



    I've seen images of union protests like these all over the world...and they all bear the same hall marks of ossifying unionism....

    Sure, unions are important in certain circumstances, but the anachronistic jargon & "class struggle" mentality drives people away in droves..

    In the meantime union numbers keep heading downwards......



    But still the Union bosses ( often marxists ) won't listen to the mums & dads of suburbia.......sheesh...when will they learn ?

    Maybe the unions could do with Spin doctoring & PR....





  • Reply 2 of 27
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Unions are still important, and will be moreso in the future. Unions or not jobs will move to China where unpaid child labor still exists. Unions are necessary for jobs that can't leave the country. Hell, I'd love to see a union of all minimum wage workers. That and I.T. workers. That would be fun.



    EDIT: The rhetoric of which you speak is anachronistic. I don't see it in the unions around where I live though.
  • Reply 3 of 27
    aquafireaquafire Posts: 2,758member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    Unions are still important, and will be moreso in the future. Unions or not jobs will move to China where unpaid child labor still exists. Unions are necessary for jobs that can't leave the country. Hell, I'd love to see a union of all minimum wage workers. That and I.T. workers. That would be fun.



    Not disagreeing with that as much as the 19th century classic marxist "style" & language & how unions present themselves to an increasingly techno savvy-world, filled with literate & well imformed people with real life work issues....
  • Reply 4 of 27
    aquafireaquafire Posts: 2,758member
    EDIT: The rhetoric of which you speak is anachronistic. I don't see it in the unions around where I live though. [/B][/QUOTE]



    Since I don't know where you live I can't judge...but most heavy industry / building/ trade sectors still have this mantle...



    Yours sounds like a " white collar union " centred around I.T.

    ( Am only guessing )
  • Reply 5 of 27
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by aquafire



    Since I don't know where you live I can't judge...but most heavy industry / building/ trade sectors still have this mantle...



    Yours sounds like a " white collar union " centred around I.T.

    ( Am only guessing )




    Me? I'm not in a union although I'd love to be in one. I'm in Chicago though, and the union members in this town don't seem to be related to Marxism in the least. Most of them are blue collar and would probably be really antagonistic against anything 'commie' like a Marxist.
  • Reply 6 of 27
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    I first read the title as "are unicorns an anacronism".
  • Reply 7 of 27
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    Where I am the unions don't have a lot of truck with Marx, so I couldn't really say.
  • Reply 8 of 27
    Unions in the US , at least ones of any real size and constituency, are hardly Marxist in their practices or ideology. Closest they come to that is in hiring and firing practices and maybe in terms of health care. For the most part though it is just about collective bargaining power and sometimes working standards. Although the fact that American unions are less militant is somewhat to be expected. After all, as far as economic ideology the US is somewhat to the right of most of the rest of Western Civilization. Communists and Socialists as well are looked upon by most Americans as defenders of a disproven socio-economic orientation which is perceived by the general populace to be just as invalid as say Flat Earth theory.
  • Reply 9 of 27
    drewpropsdrewprops Posts: 2,321member
    I joined a union back in the mid 90's for work reasons. I'm not a big fan of the union, in fact you might say I'm one of its biggest critics. I understand the benefits that it has provided in establishing minimum pay rates and financial penalties for overtime or missed meals but the "Brother" and "Sister" mentality is something that I cannot wrap my heart around.



    I fall into the "it's a necessary evil" camp on this subject. In Atlanta, the union I belong to is not a beloved entity like it might be up north. I firmly believe that our union is run by a well-known shadowy "family type" organization with roots in Chicago and New York.



    If unionism successfully spreads to Asia I expect to see some amazing fireworks. The violence of America's union struggles will pale in comparison.
  • Reply 10 of 27
    I thought they were all run by the mob?



    In europe the more enlightened companies have union members on the board of directors.
  • Reply 11 of 27
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Unions are not an anachronism.



    Class struggles still exist.



    For though they offer us concessions

    Change will not come from above.




    It was true in the 19th century. It will be true in the 22nd century.
  • Reply 12 of 27
    cosmonutcosmonut Posts: 4,872member
    Here's what I think:



    Something seems inherently wrong with the fact that my employer can't pay any of us non-unioners raises next fiscal year because of rising costs and lowered revenue, yet the union folks will get raises because it's in their contract. How f*cked up is that?



    I would LOVE to have someone try to explain to me how that's reasonable and JUST. And no, I will not join a union. I shouldn't have to.



    EDIT: Come to think of it, if it weren't for the unions, we could ALL get raises across the board. It's just that they'd get a little less than their negotiations called for.
  • Reply 13 of 27
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    Unions are not an anachronism.



    Class struggles still exist.



    For though they offer us concessions

    Change will not come from above.




    It was true in the 19th century. It will be true in the 22nd century.




    But with UTLA, horrible teachers are rarely fired. This irks me.
  • Reply 14 of 27
    mrbilldatamrbilldata Posts: 489member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    ... Unions are necessary for jobs that can't leave the country...



    Huh?!



    They are the worst Unions of all.



    The jobs that have no competition (Government and Government controlled services mostly) are the ones that drive up the cost of living the most. Year after year we hear about this Union and that having "tough" negotiations... Ha, the city or state always gives in and finds the funding( raising taxes or new fees ).



    Unions are killing cities like Philadelphia, were the services cost more than the tax base can support.
  • Reply 15 of 27
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by CosmoNut

    Here's what I think:



    Something seems inherently wrong with the fact that my employer can't pay any of us non-unioners raises next fiscal year because of rising costs and lowered revenue, yet the union folks will get raises because it's in their contract. How f*cked up is that?



    I would LOVE to have someone try to explain to me how that's reasonable and JUST. And no, I will not join a union. I shouldn't have to.



    EDIT: Come to think of it, if it weren't for the unions, we could ALL get raises across the board. It's just that they'd get a little less than their negotiations called for.




    Welcome to the power of collective bargaining. It's your choice not to engage in it, not to band together with your co-workers to force your employers to meet your demands, and not to make use of the power you have when you act as an organized group, that is responsible for your not being able to reap the same benefits as those who have decided to do so.
  • Reply 16 of 27
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    BR:



    Quote:

    But with UTLA, horrible teachers are rarely fired. This irks me.



    Sure, but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
  • Reply 17 of 27
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    Unions are a necessary element of any democratia.

    They are the natural counterweight of the power of enterprises (CEA and shareholders).



    Many unions have a retrograde old 19th century jargon. it's due that the leaders of unions are elected, and thus they tend to speak like politicians. In case of most unions politicians who have mainly only blue collars for electors.

    Even for blue collars this type of jargon is becoming old, so some unions tend to have a new way of acting based more on construction rather on struggle.
  • Reply 18 of 27
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    BR:







    Sure, but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.




    Never said we should. Just whining about the school system again.
  • Reply 19 of 27
    der kopfder kopf Posts: 2,275member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Stoo

    I first read the title as "are unicorns an anacronism".



    I actually read "are onions an anachronism?".
  • Reply 20 of 27
    aquafireaquafire Posts: 2,758member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by der Kopf

    I actually read "are onions an anachronism?".



    He's alive...and laughing...my God...a miracle......



    You can read it as onions, or even bunions....as long as you are feeling better...Good, then lets go and piss on some tires...

    whadaya say?
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